NESRGB board available now

[tzibu]

With NESRGB 41 and NTSC front loader I have this strange problem.

There is strange waviness in the picture when there is movement.
Check the video with Duck Tales. Any idea what could be the reason?

Video:
https://streamable.com/dh07wb

[BambooShadow]

With NESRGB 41 and NTSC front loader I have this strange problem.

There is strange waviness in the picture when there is movement.
Check the video with Duck Tales. Any idea what could be the reason?

Video:
https://streamable.com/i931o7

Make sure to use a proper, high quality power supply.

What scaler / setup are you using? Make sure no other signals are "leaking" into your video-chain.

Is your NESRGB41 with FPGA version 3 or 4? (No dots or two dots on the LATTICE-chip?)
Probably won't hurt to do the fix with the 4 capacitors:
https://etim.net.au/WebHelp/index.htm?context=120

[tzibu]

With NESRGB 41 and NTSC front loader I have this strange problem.

There is strange waviness in the picture when there is movement.
Check the video with Duck Tales. Any idea what could be the reason?

Video:
https://streamable.com/i931o7

Make sure to use a proper, high quality power supply.

What scaler / setup are you using? Make sure no other signals are "leaking" into your video-chain.

Is your NESRGB41 with FPGA version 3 or 4? (No dots or two dots on the LATTICE-chip?)
Probably won't hurt to do the fix with the 4 capacitors:
https://etim.net.au/WebHelp/index.htm?context=120

Tested with original power supply + retrogamesupply power supply.

Tested with Packapunch SYNC-RGB cable.
Straight to CRT and through Retrotink 5X.

FPGA Version 3.

[BambooShadow]

FPGA Version 3.

Have you done the fix with the 4 capacitors then? Won't hurt.

[tzibu]

Tim's clock and int -fixboards are maybe the ones we are trying.

Thank you so much for pointing us to the right direction.

[wwillfred]

I can't seem to find any guidance on the Net about optimizing the RetroTINK 5x for NESRGB.

For using the NESRGB version 4.0 with the RetroTINK 5x, does anyone have a recommendation for which Horizontal Sampling preset to use?

If it matters, I am using the CLOCKFIX10 and INTFIX10 mods.

[Nateo87]

A friend of mine recently asked me to install the CLOCKFIX and INTFIX and thought it might be helpful to record a video of the installation. The documentation is pretty great as far as I'm concerned, but for those who might need a little more visual aid, I hope this can provide that.

https://youtu.be/ifKNNIXoVFM?si=lrFl1NpwQLWNa4_H

[Konsolkongen]

What could be wrong with my NES?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJTLToDMP5A

PPU or VRAM issues? The image does seem to be intact, with no messed up sprites if that's something to go by. It just flickers like crazy for a while, and then it will usually go black and the screen will only come back if I turn the system off and on again.

I have an NESRGB v1.2 where I did the dejitter mod.
https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_f ... itter.html

[Konsolkongen]

Turned out this is a compatibility issue with the dejitter mod and OSSC + Morph.

Luckily a setting in the new OSSC firmware can fix this, ADC PLL BW

[leonk]

Turned out this is a compatibility issue with the dejitter mod and OSSC + Morph.

Luckily a setting in the new OSSC firmware can fix this, ADC PLL BW

I have a very picky 2015 Samsung 1080p TV when it comes to jitter. SNES 1CHIP RGB mod + OSSC blanks out every 2s without a dejitter mod. So I'm familiar with what jitter is and how to spot it.

I've been doing NESRGB installs for customers since it first came out back in 2013; I've installed hundreds of them and still do (did 2 last night) I always disable the dejitter mod on NESRGB because I found that NES jitter does not effect my uber picky TV, nor any of my customers. I've never had an NES come back because of jitter. If anything, NESRGB dejitter was an issue when it first came out, the last V3 firmware upgrade simply disabled it. Yet here we are with V4 where dejitter enabled is recommended?

Another recommendation that I'm opposed to is enabling 75ohm output on NTSC installs. Sure, if you use the 8 pin miniDIN connector. But if you're going to use the SNES style multiAV out port (like 99% of NESRGB installs) than TTL out is what you should do, because all SNES SCART RGB cables have the 470ohm resistor on csync and expect TTL out; not 75 ohm.

My point for this brain dump? Don't follow install instructions blindly because how you use the product vs how the docs writer does can be very different. Adjust to your use case.

[Konsolkongen]

The NESRGB dejitter mod did improve compatibility for me when it was created. And it seems to work perfectly fine now with that OSSC setting at Low

I appreciate the input, but at the moment I don’t see any reason to remove it

[kitty666cats]

Turned out this is a compatibility issue with the dejitter mod and OSSC + Morph.

Luckily a setting in the new OSSC firmware can fix this, ADC PLL BW

Another recommendation that I'm opposed to is enabling 75ohm output on NTSC installs. Sure, if you use the 8 pin miniDIN connector. But if you're going to use the SNES style multiAV out port (like 99% of NESRGB installs) than TTL out is what you should do, because all SNES SCART RGB cables have the 470ohm resistor on csync and expect TTL out; not 75 ohm.

I can’t fucking wait for the 8 pin miniDIN to finally go the way of the Dodo. Guess whattttt Framemeisters have been 99% irrelevant for nearly a decade at this point!

https://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=2 ... how_detail




This thing came out, like, only a year or two ago lmao. Whyyyyyy

https://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=2 ... how_detail

https://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=2 ... how_detail


…I wonder how many of these cables/various input adapters still get ordered from RGC UK, Retro Access etc in 2024?

—————————————

*Readily available* VGA+3.5mm & BNC (decently affordable and readily available as Csync - for all consoles - unlike most from RGC UK) console cables 2025? Only time will tell, lol

^ This isn’t to talk bad about RGC UK, though - if you just reach out when placing an order, Rob will rewire stuff for you… often for free! Really sweet guy.

He’ll rewire male SCART to BNC cables for *output* from Extron Crosspoints (w/ 470ohm resistor) if you ask. I think he even does it for free(?). I asked him a year or two back.

[viletim]

Turned out this is a compatibility issue with the dejitter mod and OSSC + Morph.

Luckily a setting in the new OSSC firmware can fix this, ADC PLL BW :)

I have a very picky 2015 Samsung 1080p TV when it comes to jitter. SNES 1CHIP RGB mod + OSSC blanks out every 2s without a dejitter mod. So I'm familiar with what jitter is and how to spot it.

I've been doing NESRGB installs for customers since it first came out back in 2013; I've installed hundreds of them and still do (did 2 last night) I always disable the dejitter mod on NESRGB because I found that NES jitter does not effect my uber picky TV, nor any of my customers. I've never had an NES come back because of jitter. If anything, NESRGB dejitter was an issue when it first came out, the last V3 firmware upgrade simply disabled it. Yet here we are with V4 where dejitter enabled is recommended?

There a model of TV from LG, or maybe a few of them, which is incompatible with the NES timing over the RGB input. It causes the whole top half the screen to shake. This, and the OSSC (which exacerbates timing errors) are the only two devices that really NEED the de-jitter feature. At least, that I can think of at the moment. It's still a good idea to have it on because without it first active video line will shift back and forth by one pixel every other frame, making it look blurry. The best thing to do is cut off the edges of the video signal, either with a scaler with this feature, or a CRT which overscans a bit. If that's not possible, then I'd recommend leaving putting the de-jitter on. I did go over the de-jitter logic for NESRGB4 and made some changes. It should be pretty reliable.

Another recommendation that I'm opposed to is enabling 75ohm output on NTSC installs. Sure, if you use the 8 pin miniDIN connector. But if you're going to use the SNES style multiAV out port (like 99% of NESRGB installs) than TTL out is what you should do, because all SNES SCART RGB cables have the 470ohm resistor on csync and expect TTL out; not 75 ohm.

I can’t fucking wait for the 8 pin miniDIN to finally go the way of the Dodo. Guess whattttt Framemeisters have been 99% irrelevant for nearly a decade at this point!

I don't supply the 8 pin mini din + audio jack connectors with the NESRGB kit because of the Framemeister. It's just a sensible default which is low cost, easy to install, and of adequate quality. I'm not interested in manufacturing cables or connectors. I still sell a decent amount of SCART cable sets to suit, so some people seem to like it.

Somebody told me about this DIY multi-AV socket made from PCB fibreglass. It looks interesting. I wonder how well it works...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174492488458

This thing came out, like, only a year or two ago lmao. Whyyyyyy

Ah, the SCARTMUX.... I'll tell you about it.

It was designed in 2015, while the Framemeister was still relevant. I decided not to go ahead with it, can't remember why. In 2019 I hired an employee to do packing/shipping/testing type work. I was worried I wouldn't have enough for him to do so I pulled out this old thing and put it into production. I figured he could just assemble them when had nothing better to do.

So five years old, not two, but I do agree that f the choice of output connection limits its appeal a fair bit. It was more of an experiment in making a different type of product to what I usually do. There was only one batch made, and there aren't may left now.

[leonk]

I don't supply the 8 pin mini din + audio jack connectors with the NESRGB kit because of the Framemeister. It's just a sensible default which is low cost, easy to install, and of adequate quality. I'm not interested in manufacturing cables or connectors. I still sell a decent amount of SCART cable sets to suit, so some people seem to like it.

Tim, your first NESRGB iteration had 220uF decoupling caps on the R, G, B lines and it totally made sense to be there if most customers were using the 8 pin miniDIN. Yet in later revisions of the NESRGB, you removed the caps because many installers, like myself, were removing these caps and jumping the pads because 220uF decoupling caps were already found in the SNES style SCART RGB cable. If you expected your customers to continue using the 8 pin miniDIN, the decoupling caps should have been left on the kit.

Why even bother packing the 8pin miniDIN, SVideo, stereo jack or even 7805 PCB? I have a bag here with over 200 of these connectors - all left overs from doing NESRGB installs. If anything, I've reused some in doing RGB installs in other consoles (2600, 3DO, ColecoVision, Intellivision, etc.) where there was no standard multipin port.

[KPackratt2k]

Tim, your first NESRGB iteration had 220uF decoupling caps on the R, G, B lines and it totally made sense to be there if most customers were using the 8 pin miniDIN. Yet in later revisions of the NESRGB, you removed the caps because many installers, like myself, were removing these caps and jumping the pads because 220uF decoupling caps were already found in the SNES style SCART RGB cable. If you expected your customers to continue using the 8 pin miniDIN, the decoupling caps should have been left on the kit.

Why even bother packing the 8pin miniDIN, SVideo, stereo jack or even 7805 PCB? I have a bag here with over 200 of these connectors - all left overs from doing NESRGB installs. If anything, I've reused some in doing RGB installs in other consoles (2600, 3DO, ColecoVision, Intellivision, etc.) where there was no standard multipin port.

From what I remember being mentioned in an earlier post, the RGB output on later versions of NESRGB goes through a THS7374 RGB buffer instead of the video encoder, which is normally used for the Composite and S-Video outputs. The THS7374 RGB output works with or without the capacitors whereas the video encoder required the 220uF capacitors to filter out the DC offset. NESRGB v1 output its RGB signals from the video encoder, hence the presence of the 220uF capacitors on the board.

I've personally used the leftover jacks for other projects too. The S-Video jacks from my two NESRGB installs were used when S-Video modding my Genesis 2 and a CRT TV that a friend wanted me to add an S-Video input on, the 3.5mm stereo jacks were used for line-out stereo mods on two Genesis 1 consoles. As for the 8-pin Mini-DIN connectors, I've yet to find a use for them, but with Sunthar's Micro Mux board being a more suitable option for RGB mods on TVs that don't have enough space to accommodate a SCART connector, that will likely change in the future, as that mod definitely would've been handy for a couple of the smaller TVs I've modded, but I digress.

With how commonplace custom SNES style multi-outs are nowadays compared to when the NESRGB first came out, I think it would be a good idea to make the Mini-DIN jacks and the 3.5mm audio jack optional features for future orders of the mod kits, maybe customers who want to use their own RGB output connector can save $5 by omitting those jacks that the kit normally includes in this case?

[leonk]

The TI datasheet for the THS7374 does show a common use case where they use 330uF caps along with the 75ohm resistors in AC coupled circuits. They mention that the capacitor should be between 220uF and 470uF. Most RGB SCART cables and RGB amps (SNES, N64, Genesis 3BP, PC Engine, ...) use 220uF caps. Other consoles, like the Neo Geo with the Sony CXA1145, use 470uF decoupling caps. My point is, the caps are always there - in the SCART cable or RGB amp for AC coupled circuits. The reason this is done is well documented in the datasheet.

As for multiAV port, JLCPCB does resin print of the port and PCB prints of the circuit board for pennies. A very good free design can be found here: https://github.com/TRP-Retromods/SNES_AV_Connector

There's really no reason to use the 8 pin miniDIN with NESRGB anymore .. I think it's been almost a decade since I installed that port into an NES.

[bobrocks95]

There's really no reason to use the 8 pin miniDIN with NESRGB anymore .. I think it's been almost a decade since I installed that port into an NES.

What are people doing for no-cut versions? I definitely didn't want to cut my original NES at all, I'd imagine others feel the same.

[kitty666cats]

Ah, the SCARTMUX.... I'll tell you about it.

It was designed in 2015, while the Framemeister was still relevant. I decided not to go ahead with it, can't remember why. In 2019 I hired an employee to do packing/shipping/testing type work. I was worried I wouldn't have enough for him to do so I pulled out this old thing and put it into production. I figured he could just assemble them when had nothing better to do.

So five years old, not two, but I do agree that f the choice of output connection limits its appeal a fair bit. It was more of an experiment in making a different type of product to what I usually do. There was only one batch made, and there aren't may left now.

I didn’t mean to come off as a doo-doo talker, Tim, BTW:

You obviously are one hell of an engineer (one of the best in the hobby and - even more respectable - don’t dip your feet so deep into that whole ‘inner circle’ I allude to RE: RetroTek thread) and have made some realllllll cool video game gizmos

But I do absolutely doo-doo talk accursed 8pin/I will chase you around like this til the 8pin miniDIN is dead and buried. And exorcised. And whatever else must be done lmao

[leonk]

What are people doing for no-cut versions? I definitely didn't want to cut my original NES at all, I'd imagine others feel the same.

I can count on a single hand, with fingers to spare, the number of customers I had that wanted a "no-cut" NESRGB install from the hundreds I've done since 2013. Most prefer getting composite video and S-Video enabled and reuse their SNES cable instead of doing an RGB only install and go out and buy yet another cable.

For those that really want a no-cut mod; there are options. There are online shops now that sell a very high quality replacement shell (better quality than the original Nintendo made shell) This shell has a precut/pop out hole for the Nintendo multiAV port.

Do all your mods on the new shell, don't sacrifice compatibility to the different video formats the NESRGB supports, and store your original shell away for the future.