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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:50 am 



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 14
viletim wrote:
leonk wrote:
Tim (hope you read this) what are the chances of a famicom solution in the next 12 months? I think there's a lot of people waiting to see what would happen with this last system.


12 months? I'm not that slow... The design for this is finished, actually. I will produce the Famicom P/A board and the NESRGB component video board this month.


Sorry I'm late to the NESRGB party. Still trying to catch up on all 114 pages of this thread.

Does this mean you there will be custom board for the AV Famicom that does away with the need for the NESRGB adapter board #1 as listed in the "etim online shop"?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:12 am 



Joined: 26 Sep 2014
Posts: 4
I am having so much trouble with my NTSC Front loader NESRGB install. I have checked that all the pins from the ppu are connected to the corresponding pins on the nes motherboard with a multimeter when the nesrgb board is in place. I have asked Tim a few questions about what's happening and he says the crushed component is just a power supply bypass capacitor. It doesn't matter much. The EXT2 pin (which I ripped the pad off) on the motherboard is connected to ground so no big deal. The 72 pin connector is brand new and working fine before I butchered my poor nes. The sound and pallet switch both work great and games play fine (besides garbled graphics). I made sure to solder J5 solder jumper... Maybe there is something obvious that I did wrong or missed. I feel like either my ppu has been damaged somehow or my nesrgb board is a dud somehow? Please help :(

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

After attempting to check pins and resolder the ppu I now have taken a huge step backwards and have this:

Image

Could pins be broken inside of the PPU from me bending the legs?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:05 pm 


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vvs wrote:
viletim wrote:
leonk wrote:
Tim (hope you read this) what are the chances of a famicom solution in the next 12 months? I think there's a lot of people waiting to see what would happen with this last system.


12 months? I'm not that slow... The design for this is finished, actually. I will produce the Famicom P/A board and the NESRGB component video board this month.


Sorry I'm late to the NESRGB party. Still trying to catch up on all 114 pages of this thread.

Does this mean you there will be custom board for the AV Famicom that does away with the need for the NESRGB adapter board #1 as listed in the "etim online shop"?


No,Tim's talking about the original Famicom


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:19 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1025
Location: Toronto, Canada
rezendes wrote:
I am having so much trouble with my NTSC Front loader NESRGB install. I have checked that all the pins from the ppu are connected to the corresponding pins on the nes motherboard with a multimeter when the nesrgb board is in place. I have asked Tim a few questions about what's happening and he says the crushed component is just a power supply bypass capacitor. It doesn't matter much. The EXT2 pin (which I ripped the pad off) on the motherboard is connected to ground so no big deal. The 72 pin connector is brand new and working fine before I butchered my poor nes. The sound and pallet switch both work great and games play fine (besides garbled graphics). I made sure to solder J5 solder jumper... Maybe there is something obvious that I did wrong or missed. I feel like either my ppu has been damaged somehow or my nesrgb board is a dud somehow? Please help :(

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

After attempting to check pins and resolder the ppu I now have taken a huge step backwards and have this:

Image

Could pins be broken inside of the PPU from me bending the legs?


Trying to diagnose an install based on pictures alone is close to impossible. I can't imagine doing it on a car and I can't imagine doing it on an NESRGB install. You gotta start eliminating components. Force NESRGB off and try running composite only. If you got good video work from there if not then it's the install / bad PPU.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:21 am 



Joined: 26 Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Could I have damaged the PPU by holding the soldering iron on for too long or having it set too hot? I have a Weller WES51 that says deg Fx10, I have it set to 65 arbitrarily (650 deg F?). I am a beginner with this, I think I read somewhere that setting was a good number... When I get time I will try the composite video after desoldering my palette switch and if that doesn't work, Ill attempt to desolder the PPU and try in the NES on it's own.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:58 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1185
the only time i ever cooked a through hole chip was when i used a heat gun to get it out. it requires too much heat for too long before the chip will start to lift. heat guns are fine for surface mount chips though.

These chips were designed to get rather hot for quite a while before they will go bad. remember - someone had to assemble it in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:56 am 


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mvsfan wrote:
remember - someone had to assemble it in the first place.

Actually it was most likely wave soldered and not assembled by an actual person.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:37 pm 



Joined: 14 Apr 2014
Posts: 103
rezendes wrote:
Could I have damaged the PPU by holding the soldering iron on for too long or having it set too hot? I have a Weller WES51 that says deg Fx10, I have it set to 65 arbitrarily (650 deg F?). I am a beginner with this, I think I read somewhere that setting was a good number... When I get time I will try the composite video after desoldering my palette switch and if that doesn't work, Ill attempt to desolder the PPU and try in the NES on its own.


It is possible, though not common I think. It's also possible to damage electronic circuits via static discharge (from your hands or possibly the soldering iron) but I think a far more likely scenario here is that you just have a bad connection somewhere. Maybe something's not soldered together properly, (or maybe two things are soldered together that shouldn't be), or maybe you damaged a trace on the motherboard while removing the PPU. I'd visually inspect and reflow the solder joints, and if that doesn't work, take a meter to it, and first check that all the required connections from the motherboard to the NESRGB are intact, and then check the connections on the mother board, from the PPU socket to some other point on those traces (an accessible via or connection to another IC or component) to check that you didn't damage the motherboard.

I don't have a temperature-controlled soldering iron (my iron's dial controls how much power is going to the iron - yours sets a kind of thermostat that controls the temperature) - but usually the best temperature for the iron is "hot enough to do the job" - and not much hotter. IMO that's the best way to work out the right temperature (or power) setting for the iron.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:53 pm 



Joined: 28 Aug 2014
Posts: 15
What size drill bit do I need for the palette switch (I have a 1.7 nesrgb)? I searched the thread and don't see it in Tim's writeup. I found the width online at: "External Width:12.7mm."


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:41 am 


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Although I've come into this thread with a new problem, it's not too complex. I've completed everything on the NESRGB installation on my front loader and all is working well! :)

However, I am confused on how to properly execute the expansion audio mod. I've gone through this gigantic thread and people conflict on which expansion pins to use, (9, or 40 or 51 but I think that was top loader cartridge pins, not sure) and where to put the resistor and which type of resistor (100k, 47k, 22k). I know some of these posts are old when Tim's revisions were older and he didn't have that pair of resistors on his board. I have a rev 1.7 board in my front loader NES.

So, I've soldered a wire to the two resistors on his board, run it through the bottom to come out to the back of the NES mainboard, but it's hanging out right now. I am trying to decide which is the correct pin/best resistor for *this* setup. The audio will be tapped from the NES CPU pin 1/2 to RGB board audio A/B pads, and then out as a dual mono to an AV multi out.

Does someone know the correct way? Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:28 am 


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Stupid question removed.
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clean gloves, dirty hands.


Last edited by angryswede on Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:37 am 


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ApolloBoy wrote:
mvsfan wrote:
remember - someone had to assemble it in the first place.

Actually it was most likely wave soldered and not assembled by an actual person.

From what I've seen, I think wave soldering, or the more modern reflow soldering method, actually thermally stress components more than typical hand-soldering.

ESD is always worrisome - if you're in one of the parts of the world that's entering dry winter months soon, get your soldering projects done soon! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:08 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1025
Location: Toronto, Canada
Ed Oscuro wrote:
ApolloBoy wrote:
mvsfan wrote:
remember - someone had to assemble it in the first place.

Actually it was most likely wave soldered and not assembled by an actual person.

From what I've seen, I think wave soldering, or the more modern reflow soldering method, actually thermally stress components more than typical hand-soldering.

ESD is always worrisome - if you're in one of the parts of the world that's entering dry winter months soon, get your soldering projects done soon! :mrgreen:


Or invest in a whole house humidifier. :)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:28 pm 


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Once again, anyone know the proper wiring on the expansion audio mod for a front loader with an NESRGB rev 1.7?


Last edited by swif on Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:42 am 



Joined: 26 Sep 2014
Posts: 4
Regarding the problems with my NESRGB install, I have Finally removed the PPU from the NESRGB (hours and hours and tons of frustration and ripped pads later). I popped it into the socket on the NES and it works beautifully... My problem now is that I have a ton of ripped off pads on a NESRGB that may have already had other problems. I'm trying to clean it up and see if I can save it, it looks bad though.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:08 pm 


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Posts: 530
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A couple of people have asked me how I bypass the Twin Famicom audio circuit and properly mix expansion audio into the NES RGB sound circuitry.

This isn't a tutorial, but a very crude picture coupled with a brief explanation that should thoroughly explain the concept and process.

Image

Simply tap into pins 1 and 2 of the 2A03 and terminate to the A and B inputs of the NESRGB board.

Cartridge expansion audio is also cake: Tap into pin 46 (expansion audio out) of the cartridge connector and terminate it to the NESRGB (depending on PCB revision) with a 100K resistor.

This takes care of everything, except for the FDS RP2C33 audio channel. You can not wire it directly into pin 46 as you did with the cartridge audio. FDS audio needs to be disconnected from pin 46 while in cartridge mode.

The connection from pin 54 of the 2C33 (FDS audio out) to pin 46 of the cartridge connector needs to be active only when the Twin Famicom is in FDS mode.

I mapped out the existing cartridge/disk system switch, and wired the audio-out from the 2C33 to the switch, and from the switch to pin 46. When you slide the switch to FDS mode, the connection will be live, when you flip the switch to cartridge mode, the connection is disconnected, thereby not interfering with cartridge expansion audio.

EDIT: I entirely missed this on the picture diagram. In order to keep the 2A03 audio-channels from premixing and outputting on pin 46 (expansion audio out), either entirely remove or lift a leg on the resistor cited in the picture above. Normally the audio from the 2A03 is pre-amped and fed into pin 45 and mixed with expansion audio, outputting on pin 46. The NESRGB will be handling all of the sound mixing, it's important to do this.
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Last edited by Voultar on Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:19 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1185
2 people basically said that you should probably not take the ppu out cause damaging it isnt common.

you may need a new nesrgb depending on how many traces are broken wether or not its worth fixing.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:26 pm 


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Interesting solution Voultar, I'm assuming you'll have to cut a couple of traces in addition to wiring it all up?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:41 pm 


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Posts: 530
Location: USA
ApolloBoy wrote:
Interesting solution Voultar, I'm assuming you'll have to cut a couple of traces in addition to wiring it all up?


If you're outputting the A/V signals from the NESRGB to a new connector, you can leave the existing audio circuit intact.

Leave pin 45 and 46 alone on the cartridge connector, just pull audio out from pin 46 and terminate that to C51 (with a 100k resistor) on the NESRGB. Or, I believe the latter board revisions have a little pad designated for expansion audio.

EDIT:

Blah, I totally forgot to cite this in my picture above. Rather than cutting a trace on pin 45 to remove the audio premix, remove or lift a leg from resistor R112. This will keep the 2A03 audio channels from pre-mixing into the expansion audio and outputting through pin 46.

My original post has been edited to reflect this.

I meant to share this with everyone a while ago, but totally forgot to do so until I was working on a commission piece in my garage today. I never saw any documentation for this, so I assumed nobody had figured out how to properly handle Twin Famicom/expansion audio with the NESRGB. In my opinion, it isn't worth the time or effort to correct and revise Sharps "bang-up" audio circuit job.

Hopefully my method will help some of you in getting a nice, clean, properly mixed sound from you Twin Fami's.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:00 pm 



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 174
Here's my Original Famicom installation.

My choice was to go with an external box instead of jamming all buttons into the nice shell.

I had to put the NESRGB board on top of the Famicom Motherboard as it just refused to work on the backside. (redid it twice!)
This meant i had to offset the NESRGB board a bit using a ribbon cable, this also means that the eject mechanic does not function, small price for me.

In short, all leads from the NESRGB and the stereo mod/Power LED mod goes into a HDMI connector, then into the box and from the RGB 8 pin connector into the Framemeister.
I also switched the controllers with female extension cables and put the male end into the controllers for easy cable extensions.

Hope you like it!

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:39 am 


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daskrabs wrote:
Finally got my AV Fami modded and working 100%. Just wanted give a summary of events for those that are considering doing the mod themselves, especially those that are not the best at soldering and do not have pro soldering/desoldering gear.

Gear:

Radio Shack Desoldering tool ($15) (mostly fail)
Radio Shack soldering iron ($25) (mostly fail)
M-Line Mark V pro-grade soldering station (~$100) (used with success)

Events:

-Bought a NESRGB, successfully desoldered AVFC PPU with cheap tools
-soldered the adapter board in backwards
-continued, thinking this was not a problem
-Upon completing mod, video/audio failed
-Desoldered NESRGB, destroyed adapter board, ordered new one
-After new adapter came in, resoldered everything correct
-Fired it up, worked. Yay.
-Tried a different game, FAIL. Black screen and loud buzz
-Tested AV Fami w/ stock PPU and no NESRGB, fail. Black screen and loud buzz
-Replaced PPU and CPU, stock AVFC worked again. I fried both chips on the AVFC (see below)
-Deciding not to work with obviously cursed hardware, bought a new AVFC and NESRGB
-Did everything correctly. Fired up, worked.
-Closed it up. Tested all games. All worked. Double Yay!

Afterthoughts:

-While it is possible to use cheap, AKA Radio Shack soldering and desoldering irons, I cannot recommend them because they simply don't get hot enough to melt the original solder on the PCB and remove the PPU. When I used pro gear ($100+), everything was tits.
-If you knock the NESRGB out of the socket after completing the mod, and you turn on your NES/FC, you might fry your CPU and PPU. This happened to me.
-The hardest part for an amateur is definitely desoldering the PPU. TAKE YOUR TIME. Add solder to pins that wont desolder, and try again. If that doesn't work, borrow/buy a higher temperature tool. Breaking the chip sucks ass. Again, happened to me.
-Follow the steps on Tim's site CLOSELY. Don't be an asshole and solder things in the wrong order/backwards like me.
-Using NESRGB composite. In some ways, looks better than stock, some ways worse. I say use stock after having seen both. At least for AVFC.
-Improved palette looks best of the 3 IMHO.
-I'm going to test my 1st NESRGB again, as well as my 1st AVFC for lingering effects. Probably sell them for either parts or working depending on outcome.
-In the end, it was worth the trouble. Learned a lot. Video quality on a PVM is tits.


I LOL'd several times reading this. Its been a while since I last posted, must have been late January or early February when I completed the install in my childhood frontloader. Happy to report its still working 100% (knocks on wood). What an awesome device, and quite the adventure installing it. Thanks again Tim, for making it!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:42 pm 


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Hello,

I'm planning to install a NESRGB board on a Twin Famicom and I don't understand how to input the +5v power to the NESRGB board. On his installation guide Etim is taking the +5v from the video connector but is there possibilities to take it elsewhere ? (from voltage regulator ?)
For those who installed the board on a twin famicom do you have examples of how you powered the NesRgb board ?

Thanks in advance.
(sorry for my bad English, it's not my native language)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:43 am 


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Just bridge the J3 jumper on the NESRGB and that's it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:26 am 


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Yeah, the power transistor used in the Twin Famicom easily handles the additional amp-draw of the NESRGB. Shorting J3 on the NESRGB will allow the board to be powered by the 5v rail on the PPU.

Great choice of a machine for the NESRGB, btw.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:04 am 


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Thanks Voultar/AppoloBoy, I totally missed this point


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:13 pm 


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Location: London, UK
Does anybody know what the VR pot inside a front loader modulator does? You will need to desolder the rf modulator and pull of the casing to see it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:36 am 



Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 168
Monstermug wrote:
Does anybody know what the VR pot inside a front loader modulator does? You will need to desolder the rf modulator and pull of the casing to see it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it tweaks the colour subcarrier frequency? I think I remember reading somewhere that if you turn it the picture goes black and white.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:14 am 


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mufunyo wrote:
Monstermug wrote:
Does anybody know what the VR pot inside a front loader modulator does? You will need to desolder the rf modulator and pull of the casing to see it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it tweaks the colour subcarrier frequency? I think I remember reading somewhere that if you turn it the picture goes black and white.


Thank you. So turning it with the NESRGB board installed shouldn't have any effect?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:51 am 



Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 168
Monstermug wrote:
Thank you. So turning it with the NESRGB board installed shouldn't have any effect?

I think most of the parts in the RF box can be completely removed, except for the 7805 and its filter capacitor.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:16 pm 



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 174
Hi All

On my PAL frontloader i have a background "hum" in the sound, it's especially noticable in the title screen of Super Mario Bros 3.

Does anyone else have this?


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