Castlevania Miscellanies

[Austin]

Yes, you can run lol. Either double tap foreward, or push back then foreward.

I must not have that ability yet.

That describes multiple entries in the series.

I assume you hate the NES Castlevanias, the X68000 game, and Dracula X as well.

How many times have I said the the X68000 game is the best one in the series? The only one that I actually hate is Symphony of the Night. It's a worthless, boring piece of shit. I'd rather play Haunted Castle.

Yeah, now that I remember, its a special item. You find it like 10 mins into the game though. Id rate Circle as the best GBA game. I quite like Harmony, but its got issues for sure. Aria is the worst imo. Easy, slow, and it revolves around soul collecting which just wastes your time. XD.

The run functionality is acquired literally two minutes after that save spot he quit at (which is barely five minutes into the game).

[orange808]

I have said the the X68000 game is by far the best one in the series countless times. The only one that I actually hate is Symphony of the Night. It's a worthless, boring piece of shit. I'd rather play Haunted Castle.

Fair enough. I found the X68000 game drol. Running the game felt far too rigid for my taste. It's just another "I beat it" notch in my belt.

On the other hand, I absolutely adore Dracula X and Bloodlines. They manage to capture the spirit of the series with a just enough improvisation to make it feel natural.

I think Rondo and the X68000 get love because they weren't released outside Japan in their initial runs and there's some sort of fascination with it. Now that I've played them, I really don't mind that they were Japan exclusives. I don't play either game and I don't plan to again.

I can't think of a proper cannon 2d sandbox Castlevania (I'm not using the ridiculous Samus/Drac word) that wasn't fun at least once. I added the qualifier, because I don't particularly like MercurySteam's work. Their games feel like free fan made download projects to me--with better production values for the assets. At their core, they never reach the heights of the franchise names on the box. It feels like Samus and Belmont shuffling around as undead zombies; revived with necromancy and forced to stumble over around the bank, withdraw as much cash as possible (from the dead zombie's account), and mindlessly deliver it back their masters.

[BIL]

Man what the fuck Albus Mode is bussin. Mah boi HENRY lives again! As the series' most experienced hostage extricator, outdoing even popular Ricky-kun, it's no surprise he also knows how to kidnap the buggers, too! Expected the usual halfhearted SOTNesque bonus character, ho ho hooooly fuck was I wrong. I recommend going straight in on Hard+Lv Cap 50 for a downright oldschool time. I don't bother with Lv Cap 1, tbh. Too Euroshumpy for my liking! 50 is sensible.

It's not all smooth sailing - Al can't use items, so enemies that poison become outsizedly deadly. But tbh, everything kills in four hits or so, not a big deal. The moveset is great, had some classic puzzlebox moments in Skeleton Cave. WTF these fuckin boney-kuns are too tough to shoot! Big Bangs are too slow and there ain't headroom to jump! Waitaminute, these sure are some nice shoes on my mans Al...

moveset

[RIGHT ARM BUTTON] RAPID GUN FIYA It's quick and lethal, but has a brutal recoil freeze; think twice before setting up your turret, or fire from air. Does SLASH.

[LEFT ARM] OPTICARU SHOTTO A spiralling, long-reaching dual shot with a deceptively rangey startup, and good forward planning potential. Does DARK+LIGHT, can cancel into MAXXO SHOTTO.

[UP+ATK] MAXXU SHOTTO Bulldozer attack, anything in front is getting demolished; shorter range and longer cooldown prevents spamming. Does THUNDER+DARK.

[BACK TAT] QUADRO IGNIS Close-quarters counterattack, i-framed from start to end. Ground is anti-air with l/r inflection, air is death from above. Does FIRE.

[TOUCHPAD] TEREPORTO. Super-flexible reposition, costs a chunk of MP though.

[UP+LEFT ARM] The generic superjump all SOTNesque alt characters share.

Lovely surprise!

Still I'm reminded, after clearing Ecclesia's normal mode, that these aren't games I commit to long-term; nor are they ones I'll particularly go to bat for, outside of the spectacularly troubled HoD. I love them, but ala SoulsBorneRing, baseline competence in their easygoing worlds is plenty for me. Ruthlessly self-possessed arcade stuff, otoh; I carry my Vs. Castlevania, CVIII NES, and Bloodlines strats in my fuckin bones, y'know? But as with Miyazaki's games, they are exceptionally fine entertainment for those similarly afflicted. Always a reinvigorating pleasure. I'm actually really looking forward to POR now.

[Sumez]

Wow, cool down Steven. You can dislike CotM without being so aggressive about it. It's actually a really good game, too bad if it wasn't to your tastes.

BTW it seems that the Dominus Collection might only be partially emulated, with some stuff running natively (!!!!!!). That is most unexpected. I'm always saying to stop calling emulated shit ports, because things aren't ports if they're emulated and not recoded to run natively on the new target hardware, but in this case, for once, calling them ports would not necessarily be entirely inaccurate.

That's just high level emulation. Every emulator does that to some extent, though some more than others, and whether it's something you can tell as a player entirely depends on how closely tied it is to the appearance of graphical details. If there's 3D graphics, it's likely handled on a higher level rather than trying to emulate computer chips at a logic level. Why do you think no screenshots of PlayStation games you can find on the internet nowadays actually show how the game looked like on a PlayStation?

Also... an emulated game is a port. What's the purpose of a port if not to emulate an existing game?

[SuperDeadite]

I have said the the X68000 game is by far the best one in the series countless times. The only one that I actually hate is Symphony of the Night. It's a worthless, boring piece of shit. I'd rather play Haunted Castle.

Fair enough. I found the X68000 game drol. Running the game felt far too rigid for my taste. It's just another "I beat it" notch in my belt.

On the other hand, I absolutely adore Dracula X and Bloodlines. They manage to capture the spirit of the series with a just enough improvisation to make it feel natural.

I think Rondo and the X68000 get love because they weren't released outside Japan in their initial runs and there's some sort of fascination with it. Now that I've played them, I really don't mind that they were Japan exclusives. I don't play either game and I don't plan to again.

I can't think of a proper cannon 2d sandbox Castlevania (I'm not using the ridiculous Samus/Drac word) that wasn't fun at least once. I added the qualifier, because I don't particularly like MercurySteam's work. Their games feel like free fan made download projects to me--with better production values for the assets. At their core, they never reach the heights of the franchise names on the box. It feels like Samus and Belmont shuffling around as undead zombies; revived with necromancy and forced to stumble over around the bank, withdraw as much cash as possible (from the dead zombie's account), and mindlessly deliver it back their masters.

X68000 is rigid? I find it very smooth and flexible. The 5 way whip combined with mid-air jump turns gives you a lot of options. Other then the super easy death fight, it's a really nice playing game. It is the most traditional feeling of the 16bit series though.

[orange808]

X68000 is rigid? I find it very smooth and flexible. The 5 way whip combined with mid-air jump turns gives you a lot of options. Other then the super easy death fight, it's a really nice playing game. It is the most traditional feeling of the 16bit series though.

I just felt like a robot after a while. I have similar complaints about a lot of games, though.

I might like it more if I had played through it when it was new and I was less jaded.

[Austin]

X68000 is rigid? I find it very smooth and flexible. The 5 way whip combined with mid-air jump turns gives you a lot of options. Other then the super easy death fight, it's a really nice playing game. It is the most traditional feeling of the 16bit series though.

Keep in mind that by the time most of us played it in the States, we had already played Castlevania 1, 2 and 3, Super Castlevania IV, Castlevania Bloodlines and Symphony of the Night, all games that have a nice, smooth flow to their movement and jump mechanics.

X68000 to me feels stiff in comparison to all of those games. Jumping in particular feels very stilted. The game is excellent, mind you, but I can totally see where some people won't jive with the movement mechanics right off the bat.

[To Far Away Times]

I think it might be time to start Haunted Castle Revisited.

[SuperDeadite]

X68000 is rigid? I find it very smooth and flexible. The 5 way whip combined with mid-air jump turns gives you a lot of options. Other then the super easy death fight, it's a really nice playing game. It is the most traditional feeling of the 16bit series though.

Keep in mind that by the time most of us played it in the States, we had already played Castlevania 1, 2 and 3, Super Castlevania IV, Castlevania Bloodlines and Symphony of the Night, all games that have a nice, smooth flow to their movement and jump mechanics.

X68000 to me feels stiff in comparison to all of those games. Jumping in particular feels very stilted. The game is excellent, mind you, but I can totally see where some people won't jive with the movement mechanics right off the bat.

I'm from the USA. Like, most PS1 port was my first exposure to the game. I didn't get my XVI until about 10 years ago. And on real hardware at least, I love how it controls. Sure, once you jump, it's diection is locked, but you can still whip in all 5 directions. In the first stage I love just jumping and down whipping the zombies. Keeps the speed up. I play on a CRT that supports the system's very arcadey 55htz though.

Also, unlike the other games, a lot of bosses have to actually attack you. Like Medusa, touching her body will not hurt you. She has to actually tail whip you to cause damage. With good timing you can dodge the tail and jump through her.

It's one of those games that has a lot of little subtle touches new players won't even think of trying. Get creative, and it's really not that hard of a game. Way easier then 1 and 3 on NES for sure.

[copy-paster]

Did a No Death run of Haunted Castle Revisited (Normal mode), that only took me 3 tries. Possibly the easiest Classicvania ever with Rondo as second, with enemies only give the player 1-2 bar of damage when taken hit. I find the meat placement kinda inconsistent, there's like 3-4 meats on st3 and none of them in st5 that leads me to fight The Creature with half of my healthbar left and possibly the most challenging boss in the game imo. He can spam falling blocks with Konami hitboxes + swarms of hunchbacks + undodgeable ramming attack unless you hit Frank first, all at the same time pretty rad stuff.

Gonna check out Hard mode and from what I've seen on the longplays there's no additional timer in Hard and with more enemies appear this time looks like you need to speedrun through on some stages. Same flaw with The Adventure Rebirth and I don't think nomiss run is even possible on TAR Hard because you'll die by timeout in st5 (you're busy stop and killing more enemy count here and there with every one of them deals 5 bar of damage per hit.)

[Steven]

Also... an emulated game is a port. What's the purpose of a port if not to emulate an existing game?

I would define a port specifically as being a game that has had its source code modified to run natively on hardware other than what it was originally designed for. If it's running in an emulator, the hardware isn't running the game at all. In that case the hardware is running the emulator, and the emulator is what runs the game, not the hardware.

As a result, a game that's rereleased using a software emulator isn't a port of the game at all. It might a port of the emulator, but because the game code hasn't been altered to run natively on the new system, it's not a port of the game. It's a rerelease, but not a port.

Gonna check out Hard mode and from what I've seen on the longplays there's no additional timer in Hard and with more enemies appear this time looks like you need to speedrun through on some stages. Same flaw with The Adventure Rebirth and I don't think nomiss run is even possible on TAR Hard because you'll die by timeout in st5 (you're busy stop and killing more enemy count here and there with every one of them deals 5 bar of damage per hit.)

Yeah, I found the timer to be really strict on one of the later levels on hard and I've time overed twice, although I forgot one of the levels that happened on. One was on stage 3, but I can't remember the other one.

[copy-paster]

Haunted Castle Revisited - Hard Mode No Death Run

It's up. Almost getting timeout at the creature fight since he just won't stop spamming falling blocks + hunchbacks at the same time felt like I did shmupping with konami hitboxes

Hard mode still feels like Normal with some new hazards but it's not too bad, the bosses are still the same. I think the one that gave me a bit trouble from the new hazard is the harpy and more ramming female ghosts appear in the first half of st6. Still a fine remake tho, the fact that we got a brand new official Classicvania after TAR from 15 years ago is just crazy.

[Sima Tuna]

There's a big difference between a game running on a console through an emulation wrapper vs the same game running natively on that console, with the console itself playing the game. No wrapper.

You can compare apples to apples, directly if you want. Mega Man Legacy Collection volume 1 has games running in emulation. Mega Man Legacy Collection volume 2 has Mega Man 9 and 10 on it, and those games specifically run natively. I'm talking about the Switch versions, but I assume it works the same way on other consoles. You can really tell a big difference in input lag between the games that are running through an emulation wrapper (they feel laggy) vs the native games, which feel super responsive.

[Steven]

Eh, not necessarily, provided the emulator is properly made. M2 ShotTriggers is emulated and Kamui says that PS4 Garegga is identical to playing on PCB, and that's not even counting all of the extra features that probably make it even better. That's the coolest endorsement of PS4 Garegga that I can think of. Next time I run into Kamui I'll ask her about the Premium arrange on that, which I forgot to ask about last time.

[Sumez]

There's a big difference between a game running on a console through an emulation wrapper vs the same game running natively on that console, with the console itself playing the game. No wrapper.

You can compare apples to apples, directly if you want. Mega Man Legacy Collection volume 1 has games running in emulation. Mega Man Legacy Collection volume 2 has Mega Man 9 and 10 on it, and those games specifically run natively. I'm talking about the Switch versions, but I assume it works the same way on other consoles. You can really tell a big difference in input lag between the games that are running through an emulation wrapper (they feel laggy) vs the native games, which feel super responsive.

That really depends on how the emulator and/or "native" game is coded. And I'm speaking out of experience in both making emulators and native programs myself, here.

I can understand where you get the idea from, because it makes sense in theory - and we definitely do see a lot of examples of that. It would be easy (I guess?) to make an emulator that just outputs to a frame buffer, and then display that frame buffer a couple of frames too late due to frameworks and added layers of logic on top of that. But in practice there is no reason it should be that way, and if you can I'd actually like you to explain exactly what makes you think so, if it's not just anecdotal.

Essentially, it comes down to how you'd be making software for the platform in question in the first place. You know how a lot of games nowaday are designed for very general-purpose engines such as Unity, Unreal, Game Maker, Godot, etc? That's already a wrapper like what you're talking about, and it comes with exactly the same caveats, if not worse. If you design an emulator to interface with a similar easily portable framework that could easily add a frame of lag here or there, just to simplify things for the development process.
In short, making an emulator or a complete native port from scratch, you're gonna be dealing with the exact same obstacles in terms of input polling, frame buffering, integer scaling, shimmering, etc.

On any remotely modern hardware, I'd wager a decent NES emulator could emulate an entire cycle-accurate frame of logic, video output included, in less time than an original NES even spends in Vblank. This would, given an immediate HDMI output on the following frame, actually result in slightly *less* lag than what you get on an original NES, no runahead required.

Tldr; Yes, most emulators have input lag, but they really don't need to. And anything forced by the target platform and or/SDK limitations, is gonna affect any sort of port.

[Steven]

Bitwave's emulator is pretty cool, accuracy issues aside, in that it offers theoretically infinitely low input lag due to supporting (I think) infinitely high refresh rates.

Not entirely sure why, but playing Slap Fight on MAME feels gross and laggy, which is why I don't do it, but then I go play Bitwave Slap Fight on the same computer with the same monitor and same keyboard and it's way better, comparable to going over to the next room and playing it on PCB on the Astro City. I'm only running a 60Hz monitor (and yes, it is actually 60Hz, not 59.94Hz), though, so it would theoretically have less lag, at least in terms of milliseconds, than the PCB if I had something better to play it on.

[orange808]

That really depends on how the emulator and/or "native" game is coded. And I'm speaking out of experience in both making emulators and native programs myself, here.

I can understand where you get the idea from, because it makes sense in theory - and we definitely do see a lot of examples of that. It would be easy (I guess?) to make an emulator that just outputs to a frame buffer, and then display that frame buffer a couple of frames too late due to frameworks and added layers of logic on top of that. But in practice there is no reason it should be that way, and if you can I'd actually like you to explain exactly what makes you think so, if it's not just anecdotal.

Essentially, it comes down to how you'd be making software for the platform in question in the first place. You know how a lot of games nowaday are designed for very general-purpose engines such as Unity, Unreal, Game Maker, Godot, etc? That's already a wrapper like what you're talking about, and it comes with exactly the same caveats, if not worse. If you design an emulator to interface with a similar easily portable framework that could easily add a frame of lag here or there, just to simplify things for the development process.
In short, making an emulator or a complete native port from scratch, you're gonna be dealing with the exact same obstacles in terms of input polling, frame buffering, integer scaling, shimmering, etc.

On any remotely modern hardware, I'd wager a decent NES emulator could emulate an entire cycle-accurate frame of logic, video output included, in less time than an original NES even spends in Vblank. This would, given an immediate HDMI output on the following frame, actually result in slightly *less* lag than what you get on an original NES, no runahead required.

Tldr; Yes, most emulators have input lag, but they really don't need to. And anything forced by the target platform and or/SDK limitations, is gonna affect any sort of port.

You're right in theory. Unfortunately, the operating system, drivers, and API always get in the way and they create unnecessary latency. I don't believe that will ever improve.

GroovyMiSTer (fed through a RetroTink4k or directly to a CRT) and an overclocked DS5 (wired directly to the PC) is the best overall dedicated home emulation experience on the planet right now. FPGA is nice, but it has a limited library of games.

Doesn't matter what a dev does, the OS and drivers will make it difficult to match GroovyMiSTer audio and video performance.

Mobile is another conversation, of course. Anbernic's RG35xxSP is a remarkable value at 60usd. The screen is VRR (always correct refresh) and it has enough power to handle run ahead. It runs some native Linux games and anything up to PS1. You can put in your luggage and it will still be in the bag when you arrive. It's the same reason you buy a cheap Chinese car stereo; it will still be there when you come back the car (and the windows won't be broken).

Analogue Pocket is more expensive, but it's better--and it doesn't require nearly as much work to setup versus the Anbernic. Fewer games, though. Keep a close eye on it.

[To Far Away Times]

Thinking of doing my yearly Castlevania IV run through now.

[Sumez]

You're right in theory. Unfortunately, the operating system, drivers, and API always get in the way and they create unnecessary latency. I don't believe that will ever improve.

That's the point I was trying to make, though: That will happen (depending on how good the dev is at working around it anyway) absolutely regardless of whether the product is an emulated video game or one developed "natively" for that platform. It's not an emulator thing.

[orange808]

You're right in theory. Unfortunately, the operating system, drivers, and API always get in the way and they create unnecessary latency. I don't believe that will ever improve.

That's the point I was trying to make, though: That will happen (depending on how good the dev is at working around it anyway) absolutely regardless of whether the product is an emulated video game or one developed "natively" for that platform. It's not an emulator thing.

Good point.

Moore's Law gifts a lot of raw power these days and the overhead for emulation isn't what it used to be. It would be much better if rom images were sold individually. A stand alone emulator is usually going to have more features than a dev can provide in a commercial product. Many emulators are under perpetual active development, so the game never gets abandoned. And, our emulators can take extreme measures and bypass the OS completely to an external GPU; can't really sell a GroovyMiSTer game on Steam.

We're referencing old consoles, though. Newer consoles have some of the same issues our modern machines do.

[Marc]

Finished up HoD. I grew to like it, if never quite love it.
Started Aria and it's instantly pacier, and easier to read. So far.
Also starting the original.... almost got the clear last time then dropped off. It will be mine.

[beer gas canister]

Been going hard on the DS collection. Nabbed the good ending in Dawn and just reached Drac's castle in Ecclesia. It's quite impressive that each of these titles captures such a unique feel, from CotM on up. None of them really have the same combat besides Aria and Dawn, and the variations in movement tech and castle design keep everything feeling fresh. There's really something for everybody in this series, from hardcore-ish ARPG bob-and-weave fighting in CotM and OoE (quite the bookends!) to creative, easygoing slapstick in Portrait and HoD. Aria and Dawn are both like miniature SotNs, though I find them less charming, despite their improved playability. Competent as it is, Dawn was pretty tame, and now I understand why folks prefer Aria.

Speaking of bookends, it's crazy that SotN was the first in this series, given its sophistication, and the Bloodstained RotN is the last. Those two also have elements that are totally unique from the handheld games, aesthetically and otherwise. Playing OoE after finishing RotN is so gratifying. RotN is such a clear culmination of all these beautiful ideas, particularly from the DS titles and especially OoE, into a game so maximal and thorough that it dwarfs the DS titles, incorporating all of their strengths and weaknesses into its behemoth castle. It's proof that all of these systems have a place and that they can cohere into a damn good game. At the same time, RotN has just enough unique identity and character that it complements the originals, rather than rendering them obsolete or deprecated.

My current ranking:
Bloodstained RotN - a smorgasbord of skeleton murder and magic spells. I dig the look and it was a blast. Thorny difficulty with low stakes. Protagonist looks cool and kicks ass. Features the best clock tower to date
Portrait - variety, charm, low difficulty, team system, vibes, comedy. All around cool as hell.
CotM - fabulous castle design, tricky encounter design, gorgeous visuals and animations, totally unique movement and whip combat. Extremely goth
Ecclesia - cool protag, good compact maps, legit tense gameplay, evil atmosphere, unique combat
Symphony - pure poetry and an extraordinary gameplay feel, marred by obtuse design and loooooong stretches without saves or warp rooms. If they just bolted on a little bit of QoL it'd be the greatest, but I often get a feeling of being kicked while I'm down that the Iga games lack.
Aria - game is fun as hell but I hate looking at it on a TV! And Soma does not feel fun to control for some reason. He's easy to control, but it's something in his animation, or maybe the scale of his sprite relative to the environment, idk.The castle design is uneven but it's certainly thoughtful and sometimes brilliant. Succinct in a way that other titles aren't
Dawn - a little bit rote, but beautiful. Badly hampered by the soul system. Might place it higher than Aria once I take a run at Julius mode. If this game had just a touch more variety and freedom it'd make a better impression
HoD - only played this one a little bit! But will get to it after I button up the others. Juste is super bad ass and the psychedelic look is more appealing to me as time goes on.

Bonus classics:
Super Metroid above RotN
Metroid Prime below Super Metroid and above RotN
Metroid Fusion below CotM and above Ecclesia

[Sumez]

If there's one thing ROTN definitely fails to do, it's obsoleting anything.
It's a fun game, but man it feels so much less polished than any of the others, HoD included.

[beer gas canister]

If there's one thing ROTN definitely fails to do, it's obsoleting anything.
It's a fun game, but man it feels so much less polished than any of the others, HoD included.

These games are all hella sloppy! RotN sidesteps the problem a little bit by giving you a ton of everything, supporting any play style. Portrait is the same way, with a smaller scope and better polish. It's surely a mess but I love it for that reason - they did EVERYTHING and I'm here for all of it (except the final dungeon! That part sucks)

And despite its sheer size, RotN's castle is super memorable to me. Some of those rooms are really nasty! Again it's kind of uneven, as with the ice caves, but the main above ground castle is wicked cool, and it's easy to remember lots of compelling encounters and situations months later (intro ship, impossibly tall bell tower, library, the clock tower, blood fountain). I liked the bosses more than any of the other Vanias as well. Zangetsu! The clock tower dragon! The economy is more forgiving than prior games too so it's easier to bullshit the rough parts with potions.

[Sumez]

I think ROTN is harder to avoid breaking than even SOTN was. Sure, with SOTN all you need is the Crissaegrim, but at least it's a really rare drop.
With ROTN, even playing on hard, bosses would go down just by mashing some buttons. Some late-game bosses died before I was done entering the door. And I just played the game as intended, not trying to abuse any mechanics.

[Steven]

I dropped Ritual of the Night after 2.4 hours. Looks like I didn't miss anything.

[Sima Tuna]

I'm a shallow person who can't get over how cheap and tacky the visuals of RotN are. The demake games look much better and have a more cohesive style.

[Marc]

I enjoyed it. If SotN was a toy box, RotN was a fucking theme park.

[BrianC]

The clock tower dragon!

Wait a minute! Those were a dragon? I thought it was the Gatekeeper and Keymaster from Ghostbusters.

[Sumez]

I'm a shallow person who can't get over how cheap and tacky the visuals of RotN are. The demake games look much better and have a more cohesive style.

They are also much better games. Surprisingly for Inti Creates, really.