better looking shmup: Bio-Metal (SNES) vs. TF4 (Genesis)

No_not_like_Quake · Post by **No_not_like_Quake** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:04 pm

I'm almost stumped at which is technically more impreesive. Bio-Metal has more color but TF4's parrallax... nice. Oh just decide for me.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:06 pm

I like Bio Metal, but... er. It's an R-Type-ish looking game that doesn't try to stun at any moment. I think they probably had to sacrifice in graphics to keep the speed reasonable.

TF4.

No_not_like_Quake · Post by **No_not_like_Quake** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:50 am

I think TF4 wins cos it's not using hardware shite to do it's magic. That translucent cloud effect and first boss are mode 7 effect AFAIR.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:36 am

No_not_like_Quake wrote:first boss

Doesn't even look good. Another case of a pointless SNES effect.

GateofThunderforceIII · Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:16 am

TF4 all the way. I don't know...the SNES has a larger color pallete and higher resolution (duh), but there's something about SNES games in general feeling a little wimpy compared to the MegaDrive greats (Super Shinobi vs Castlevania 4, Hagane vs Shinobi III, Super Aleste vs MUSHA, TF3 vs Thunderspirits, Sonic vs SMW, Final Fight2 vs Bare Knuckle 2). Must be the slow ass processor. Plus, I've always loved the MegaDrive/Neo-Geo's resolution. Gritty, rough, and tough looking. Regardless, I still love the Super Fami...but not as much as the MD.

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 5:53 am

Afaik the Genesis has the higher resolution but fewer colors. Still, it's TF4 for me all the way, even though the game is crazy slow in parts. The artwork and parallax trickery is just so good.

BTW I'm not sure that translucency counts specifically as a "Mode 7" effect-- any SNES coders here to set this straight?

PooshhMao · Post by **PooshhMao** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:18 am

The Mega Drive's resolution is 320x240, the SNES's 256x240 (some games use a higher resolution - Secret of Mana's option screen - but generally this isn't used in-game).

Technical disadvantages aside, design trumps trickery anyway, and TF4's clearly the more ambitious game in this respect.

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:20 am

Mode 7 has a specific meaning: "a simple texture mapping graphics mode that allows a background layer to be rotated and scaled. By modifying the scaling and positioning of the layer on a scanline-by-scanline basis a simple perspective effect can be applied, transforming the layer into a 2D horizontal texture-mapped plane that trades height for depth."

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:04 am

According to Wikipedia, the Genny/MD can output the following resolutions:

256x224, 320x224, 256x240 (PAL only), 320x240 (PAL only)

and the SNES:

256x224, 320x224, 256x240, 400x300, 512x224.

Which doesn't explain why games looked grainy on the Genesis, as a general rule.

Except Phantasy Star 4.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:33 am

Thunder Force IV is the better looking of the two IMO. Bio Metal may have more color and some cloud translucency as well as the "Alien" look. TF4 however has some better effects like the sick amount of linescrolling, parallax, the "TV Snow" lasers fired by the Ruin boss, that starfield in the mothership battle, and many others.

Although maybe not be as amazing as in TF3's Gorgon stage, the flame warping effects are still decent.

No_not_like_Quake · Post by **No_not_like_Quake** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:25 am

It's funny to talk about graphics from machines that are essentially ancient eh?

In hindsight, I think I like the Genesis's gritty look over the SNES's colorful look .

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:41 pm

Specineff wrote:According to Wikipedia, the Genny/MD can output the following resolutions:

256x224, 320x224, 256x240 (PAL only), 320x240 (PAL only)

and the SNES:

256x224, 320x224, 256x240, 400x300, 512x224.

Which doesn't explain why games looked grainy on the Genesis, as a general rule.

SNES games I don't think usually used anything but the lower res though-- they always seem a little blockier. Genesis stuff also has a lot of dithering to try to get around the lower color palette.

Damocles · Post by **Damocles** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:05 pm

Dunno why but SNES games always looked so....cold...and technical.....compared to the warmth exuded by many Genny games. Dunno, just my view.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:15 pm

Maybe I was posting on the wrong game boards 5 years ago, but it definitely seems the Genesis has seen a surge in support lately about its graphics. I also like its sharper, darker look.

About Bio Metal's graphics. I like them because they don't go crazy on special effects. They kept it really simple. The levels are very repetitive, but they look nice, unobtrusive to the action and it's fairly seamless repetition.

DC906270 · Post by **DC906270** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:39 pm

SNES did better cutesy/cartoon style, MD did better gritty

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:08 pm

TF4 all the way. Hands down, one of the top 5 graphical feats on the Genesis/MD. I also think the Genesis' graphcis are quite nice. I mean, there are games on the SNES that make you go WOW (like Super Star Wars) when you see the effects & so forth, but I don't think the Genesis was a slouch in the graphics department. Many games looked very good for what the programmers had to work with. I'm probably biased, though, seeing as how I've owned a Genny since junior high & only acquired a SNES w/in the last 5 or 6 years (& still only have a handful of games).

ccovell · Post by **ccovell** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:50 am

Specineff wrote:According to Wikipedia, the Genny/MD can output the following resolutions:
256x224, 320x224, 256x240 (PAL only), 320x240 (PAL only)

and the SNES:
256x224, 320x224, 256x240, 400x300, 512x224.

Oh, dear. Time to correct the tech specs on Wikipedia once again.
As far as I know, the SNES cannot do 320x* or 400x300. The latter is impossible anyways on regular TV sets.

Of course, the SNES has a proper interlacing mode as well, making the maximum resolution 512x448. The Genny can do interlacing (as seen in Sonic 2), but is it software-driven?

D · Post by D » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:44 am

Bio Metal? Unholy crapazoids!
What about Axelay vs TF IV?

No_not_like_Quake · Post by **No_not_like_Quake** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:53 pm

Well that's unfair IMO as I think Axelay trounces TF4 graphically. At least from a technical standpoint. Maybe not trounces but it's better IMO.

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:00 pm

No_not_like_Quake wrote:Well that's unfair IMO as I think Axelay trounces TF4 graphically. At least from a technical standpoint. Maybe not trounces but it's better IMO.

I wouldn't say it "trounces" TF4 at all. TF4 is one of the most graphically impressive games on the system, just as Axelay is one of the most graphically impressive SNES games. I'd say in terms of technical acheivement, they may well be on par (in respect to the systems they were designed for). On a purely aesthetic basis, I'd say they're even. Axelay does some stuff really right, & TF4 does some stuff really right.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:50 pm

Any game that used mode 7 heavily looks like crap today except for maybe Nintendo's racing games, which just look flat. I'm an Axelay apologist amongst hater Genesis fans, but the graphics? Nauseating, and the switching back and forth routine makes it feel like two different games. Side-scrolling stages are as memorable as Bio-Metal's...

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:44 am

I thought Axelay was a raster trick done by removing lines instead of Mode 7-- there doesn't appear to be any scaling or even actual perspective (the background does not grow horizontally). You can see similar stuff on the sides of the road in one of the second bosses of Contra Hard Corps. Plus it parallaxes ...

Expertly done in my opinion; it's certainly a contender.