Thoughts on "Arcade games are designed to steal your money"?

[Stevens]

For every well-designed arcade game there were like 15 shitty ones that absolutely had no purpose beyond swindling kids out of quarters.

That's not even getting into the really predatory shit like Dragon's Lair or Double Dragon 3.

I remember being really excited when this came out cause you know, Double Dragon. Then I saw it and was like the fuck? This doesn't look anything like DD. Then I found the shop..

Is there an older case of micro transaction in a game? Insert a quarter for a shitty move that my character should have had at the start?

What about games where the health bar doubles as a timer? Looking at you Crime Fighters.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Even Atari Games' Blasteroids circa 1987 is a true quarter muncher as your energy bar is slowly trickling away regardless if you manage to clear the current sector that you're in (even "inhales" quarters if played co-op style as well).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Stevens]

Even Atari Games' Blasteroids circa 1987 is a true quarter muncher as your energy bar is slowly trickling away regardless if you manage to clear the current sector that you're in (even "inhales" quarters if played co-op style as well).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Gauntlet too. How the hell could I forget Gauntlet? Maybe it didn't bother me as much cause I always felt Gauntlet gave you a lot of health for that quarter.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Gauntlet too. How the hell could I forget Gauntlet? Maybe it didn't bother me as much cause I always felt Gauntlet gave you a lot of health for that quarter.

Gauntlet is apparently a game that can be 1CC'd on a single credit. I was quite skeptical of this myself, but it was brought to my attention when I complained Gauntlet's life drain was quite credit feedy. I still think health drain over time systems are a bit brutal as it's really hard to judge if playing safe and going slower is saving you or costing you health in the long run. It's a lot easier to judge when you have a separate time limit rather than your health acting as a timer.

[Sima Tuna]

Many arcade sports games use a timer system for credits that makes it literally impossible to 1cc the games. I'm not sure if it's a case of "game is designed to steal money" so much as "they wanted players to get off the cab after 5 minutes and couldn't think of an organic way to do this with certain sports."

At least Neo Turf Masters gives you bonus play when you Birdie or better, so that one can be 1cc'd. But games like Super Baseball 2020 and Baseball Stars 2 can't be, IIRC.

[BrianC]

1943 has an automatically draining life meter, but health pickups are common, and it can be 1cc'ed.

[it290]

Gauntlet too. How the hell could I forget Gauntlet? Maybe it didn't bother me as much cause I always felt Gauntlet gave you a lot of health for that quarter.

Gauntlet is apparently a game that can be 1CC'd on a single credit. I was quite skeptical of this myself, but it was brought to my attention when I complained Gauntlet's life drain was quite credit feedy. I still think health drain over time systems are a bit brutal as it's really hard to judge if playing safe and going slower is saving you or costing you health in the long run. It's a lot easier to judge when you have a separate time limit rather than your health acting as a timer.

I don't think Gauntlet has an ending, so a 1CC would just entail clearing all the levels I guess? Anyway, I believe the original rev is pretty much endlessly playable but after Atari witnessed players doing 10+ hour runs I believe the later revs were rebalanced to disallow this.

[MJR]

Gauntlet too. How the hell could I forget Gauntlet? Maybe it didn't bother me as much cause I always felt Gauntlet gave you a lot of health for that quarter.

Gauntlet is apparently a game that can be 1CC'd on a single credit. I was quite skeptical of this myself, but it was brought to my attention when I complained Gauntlet's life drain was quite credit feedy. I still think health drain over time systems are a bit brutal as it's really hard to judge if playing safe and going slower is saving you or costing you health in the long run. It's a lot easier to judge when you have a separate time limit rather than your health acting as a timer.

I don't think Gauntlet has an ending, so a 1CC would just entail clearing all the levels I guess? Anyway, I believe the original rev is pretty much endlessly playable but after Atari witnessed players doing 10+ hour runs I believe the later revs were rebalanced to disallow this.

Yes, both Gauntlets are ”infinite”. I played the heck out of them both on freeplay back in the nineties. You can stay alive in the first one when you play as wizard, second one as elf.

Common way to survive on them was what I call monster dripping. When enemies are outside the screen, they stop moving. So you killed just few of them at a time. There were also few levels where you were better off if you just ran them through.

I still think both games are ripoffs, though. Same goes for Xybots. Gauntlet Legends and Dark Legacy had password save. That made them slightly more meaningful, though they are also still ripoffs.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Gauntlet Legends and Dark Legacy had password save. That made them slightly more meaningful, though they are also still ripoffs.

Gauntlet is one of those rare games I feel the console versions were significantly better than the arcade release. Gauntlet IV and the 3D games all had home ports where health drain was disabled or at least wasn't a hindrance. You could get a ring that stopped it in the Quest Mode of IV or manage it with health potions / levelling max HP and making occasional return trips to town.

[Sima Tuna]

Gauntlet Legends and Dark Legacy had password save. That made them slightly more meaningful, though they are also still ripoffs.

Gauntlet is one of those rare games I feel the console versions were significantly better than the arcade release. Gauntlet IV and the 3D games all had home ports where health drain was disabled or at least wasn't a hindrance. You could get a ring that stopped it in the Quest Mode of IV or manage it with health potions / levelling max HP and making occasional return trips to town.

There's a lot of console ports that better their arcade counterparts, but especially in cases where the arcade game used some kind of health drain or timer setup. Console games can just remove the credit feed timers on arcade sports games or remove life drain from games that have it. Gain Ground is better on Genny than Arcade IIRC. I think the timer is less bullshitty. Baseball Stars 2 and Super Baseball 2020 are better on AES because you can disable the horrible credit feed timers.

This being shmups forum, maybe people are just less aware of the arcade games that are better on home console? Because, well... Usually the arcade version of a shmup is better than the console port, especially if we're talking about pre-HD era.

But yeah, a lot of action rpgs, top-down action games, sports games etc are better on consoles. Certain genres work better in an arcade framework than others. No arcade operator is going to allow the player an entire, 9-innings full game of Baseball on the arcade cab. Yet that is exactly what makes the most sense in terms of the sport and creating a fun, immersive experience. Interrupting play every 2 minutes (literally, there is a 2 minute timer on some of these games) to feed more credits (sometimes in the middle of a pitch) brings the player out of the game in the most obnoxious way.

[MJR]

Gauntlet Legends and Dark Legacy had password save. That made them slightly more meaningful, though they are also still ripoffs.

Gauntlet is one of those rare games I feel the console versions were significantly better than the arcade release. Gauntlet IV and the 3D games all had home ports where health drain was disabled or at least wasn't a hindrance. You could get a ring that stopped it in the Quest Mode of IV or manage it with health potions / levelling max HP and making occasional return trips to town.

I never played any console version of Gauntlet / Gauntlet 2, but N64 version of Gauntlet legends + PS2 version of Gauntlet: Dark Legacy are the best versions for me, in terms of playability. Interestingly, Ed Logg was involved with the N64 version, I often wonder if that is the reason it plays so well.

[Air Master Burst]

Gauntlet might be the only arcade series where I hate the 2D games and love the 3D games.

[MJR]

Gauntlet might be the only arcade series where I hate the 2D games and love the 3D games.

Usually I would go mental at anyone saying anything like that, but I have to agree. 3D Gauntlets are far better games.

[it290]

The 2014 reboot of Gauntlet isn't bad. The levels are a bit monotonous, but it's pretty cool how they gave each class their own unique gameplay and controls.

[evil_ash_xero]

A lot of them are designed that way, yeah. I play a lot on MAME and MiSTer, and I always turn down the difficulty in the DIP switches.
I don't with Shmups, for obvious reasons, unless they have check points. I do like to see the whole game at some point.

Some games are obviously jacked up in difficulty for the Western releases (as mentioned earlier). I've noticed that with a number of Konami games. And if
that isn't "designed to steal your money", I don't know what is.

There's some titles that even without having to spend quarters, you die so often, it's actually irritating to play the games.
I'll probably get bitched out here, but I find Undercover Cops to be that way. It seems to be designed for two players, and screw
off if you're by yourself. I'm sure there are people here who have 1CC'd it, but I'm just a normal human.

But there's a lot that are decent with their difficulty. They did have to make some money, though, but some take it too far.
At the same time, a lot of old console games are brutally difficult, so I think it may have been a bit of the mindset, at the time. Probably
since the games were so short.

[Austin]

Gauntlet IV and the 3D games all had home ports where health drain was disabled or at least wasn't a hindrance.

I'm not sure about the earlier arcade releases, but Gauntlet Legends and Dark Legacy had operator settings to disable the health countdown. Thankfully the main machine I played on had it disabled. Legends in particular, it is fully possible to 1CC the entire game. I've made it to the final level and boss on one credit many times back in the day, when I came up with a stupid idea to get the top "Level 99" high score slot for every character class (yeah, my priorities back then were whack). It's a game you really have to play smart/methodically in, otherwise you'll get wrecked.

I do prefer the arcade versions by quite a lot, especially Legends. They rearranged a lot of the stages in the home ports for the worse, and with Dark Legacy in particular it became much more of a fetch quest. Rune stones aside in arcade Legends, there were none of the obelisks, random colored gems that gate progress, etc. It was just focused on the action, learning the level layouts and finding an optimal, consistent route to make your credit last. Pretty satisfying.

[To Far Away Times]

I had the PS1 port of Gauntlet Legends and I really liked that game. Never did finish it, maybe I should some day.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I'm not sure about the earlier arcade releases, but Gauntlet Legends and Dark Legacy had operator settings to disable the health countdown.

Oh, interesting to know! Do you remember if they simply instituted a time limit in levels to prevent you from sitting in a level at an enemy generator or something?

[Austin]

I'm not sure about the earlier arcade releases, but Gauntlet Legends and Dark Legacy had operator settings to disable the health countdown.

Oh, interesting to know! Do you remember if they simply instituted a time limit in levels to prevent you from sitting in a level at an enemy generator or something?

I don't believe there was any sort of time limit, but it's generally somewhat difficult to milk spawners either due to spawn speed or the tier of enemies (some take two or three hits, get a long string of them and they'll catch up and overwhelm you).

[Dazzymank]

Remember using my dinner money as a kid in 80s in arcades or fish and chip shop.

I spent 50 quid on Jackal in one week skiing with school when was around 12 mid 80s in Austria and that's when I knew they could be replaced from shilling (about 15p at time) with UK 5p but then they shut down as they reliasee what we were doing

There was serious probs with arcades here dodgy dealers and skipping school as very addictive one more credit which is how they were designed.

I only 1 credit on shmups tho

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Sega's classic Super Scaler series of Galaxy Force II (circa 1988) cost a dollar to play per credit, especially the Super Deluxe cab version setup with it's 360 degree spinning in both clockwise and counter-clockwise directions + tilting forward & backwards along with tilting to the right & left motions as well. It's regarded as a "dollar muncher" due to the consistent "Energy Drain" factor going on in any chosen stage played -- which meant you had to have a pocketful of quarters to play every stage only once if you did decide to continue. It was regarded as quite an amazing motion experience, indeed, at the time of it's initial grand debut in the arcades/game centers worldwide.

Sega's R-360 full motion cab setup with pitch, yaw and roll capabilities running the classic G-LOC arcade game eventually eclipsed what GF2 had to offer in terms of motion capability as an "amusement ride experience combined with an arcade game combination marriage" not to be missed. As of right now, Galloping Ghost arcade is the only place, worldwide, with a 100% fully operational & working R-360 cab to play/try it out at your leisure. Sure, the R-360 cab was featured/mentioned in Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine to spread the word about it. I knew about it's existence but sadly, never got the chance to see it up & running nor play it -- it was placed at higher-tiered expensive world-class arcades and game centers with plenty of "foot traffic" (meaning customers with plenty of "money/disposable income" to spend).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~