M2 Toaplan collection

[Lemnear]

Knuckle Bash is fun and I like it. It's... definitely not great, but it's just a silly game and that makes it cool, and it has some really awesome music too.

Honestly, I'd take Batsugun over Mahjong Sisters (can't play mahjong anyway), Snow Bros, Snow Bros 2 (sorry Bros fans), Ghox (second half of the game... yeah, it sucks miserably), FixEight, and depending on the day you ask me, possibly Tatsujin, Zero Wing, and Daisenpuu. I have really mixed feelings about Zero Wing. Sometimes I'm like HELL YEAH I LOVE ZERO WING!!!!!!!!!!!! and then sometimes I'm like yeah no let's play basically anything that isn't Zero Wing or bullet hell. Daisenpuu is secretly pretty cool, but I have to be in the right mood to play it.

In terms of graphics, Batsugun definitely gets completely destroyed by Out Zone, Tatsujin Ou, and Dogyuun!! for sure. Those three games' graphics are completely out of control and still look way, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than pretty much every modern 2D pixel art game, even 30+ years later. Batsugun has a few backgrounds that I don't like (mostly stage 2, which looks a bit odd to me), but it's mostly okay, but not as good as what came before just a few years earlier.

What's the problem with a tropical beach with only one small enemy base?
Give me more Stages with the sea! (or even under the sea!)
In fact i would like more Batsugun... it's the only existing game that is perfectly in the middle between Classic and Danmaku....and with a lot of sea!

[Some-Mist]

sorcer striker is kinda in that realm, no?

[evil_ash_xero]

sorcer striker is kinda in that realm, no?

Batsugun is a lot closer to bullet hell than SS. SS is more like a speedier version of Spriggan/MUSHA.

[hamfighterx]

Finally received the Limited Run collector's edition version of Kyukyoku Tiger Heli today. A mere year and a half after I ordered it (lol), but I knew that was a possibility going in so I'm fine with that. I have had the Japanese release since day 1 (Switch physical, PS4 downloaded), so snagged this for the different LE stuff (soundtrack) and the physical PS4 disc (including all DLC/console versions and Teki-Paki on disc).

The box is actually really nice! It sort of looks like an even larger Neo Geo AES cartridge case - style is more like the OG Neo softshell cases, but the plastic is harder and it snaps shut. Not quite as hard as the hardshell snap Neo Geo cases, but feels nice. Picture for scale next to a Neo home cart, and the Switch cart. I love the cover art, which is the same art used on the reverse side of the retail JPN release. There's no reverse cover art on the LRG release, nor any extra inserts like the amazing Amazon.jp exclusive Get Star cover.

[hamfighterx]

What's the problem with a tropical beach with only one small enemy base?
Give me more Stages with the sea! (or even under the sea!)
In fact i would like more Batsugun... it's the only existing game that is perfectly in the middle between Classic and Danmaku....and with a lot of sea!

All this. Stage 2 is actually my absolute favorite in Batsugun from an aesthetic standpoint (visual design as well as music), and is what I always think of first in my head when I think of Batsugun.

[Arino]

Finally received the Limited Run collector's edition version of Kyukyoku Tiger Heli today. A mere year and a half after I ordered it (lol), but I knew that was a possibility going in so I'm fine with that. I have had the Japanese release since day 1 (Switch physical, PS4 downloaded), so snagged this for the different LE stuff (soundtrack) and the physical PS4 disc (including all DLC/console versions and Teki-Paki on disc).

The box is actually really nice! It sort of looks like an even larger Neo Geo AES cartridge case - style is more like the OG Neo softshell cases, but the plastic is harder and it snaps shut. Not quite as hard as the hardshell snap Neo Geo cases, but feels nice. Picture for scale next to a Neo home cart, and the Switch cart. I love the cover art, which is the same art used on the reverse side of the retail JPN release. There's no reverse cover art on the LRG release, nor any extra inserts like the amazing Amazon.jp exclusive Get Star cover.

Nice, can I get the poster? I guess you don't need it.

[pablumatic]

Finally received the Limited Run collector's edition version of Kyukyoku Tiger Heli today. A mere year and a half after I ordered it (lol), but I knew that was a possibility going in so I'm fine with that.

The pre-order for Kyukyoku Tiger-Heli ended in early February this year, but at times these things do take that long, or longer, from Limited Run Games.

https://limitedrungames.com/collections ... tiger-heli

The lack of mention of Hishou Same! Same! Same! during this year's LRG game announcement stream has me wondering if we'll even see it from them. I've gotten all the JP versions anyway and am not counting on any western releases of M2's games.

[Sumez]

Wow, really surprised by the quality of that collector edition. Usually the ones they make are just a really flimsy, but overpriced, big cardboard box and a bunch of useless junk floating around inside.

[hamfighterx]

The pre-order for Kyukyoku Tiger-Heli ended in early February this year, but at times these things do take that long, or longer, from Limited Run Games.

You are totally right, I ordered it in January and wrote the date down... I just misread it as 2023 and still had some memories of the last 1+ year waits I've had with them (their releases of Atari Recharged vol 1&2 and Neo Geo Pocket Selection Vol.2). To give LRG credit, in the past year or so they really have seemed to tighten up their production times and have been relatively accurate in their shipping month estimates.

The lack of mention of Hishou Same! Same! Same! during this year's LRG game announcement stream has me wondering if we'll even see it from them.

Same feeling I got. And I also couldn't imagine waiting on a western release of these games, I just get them at Japanese launch. This just happened to be one where I felt like picking up the special edition for the extras (and PS4 disc to supplement my PSN downloaded version on that platform, just in case).

Wow, really surprised by the quality of that collector edition. Usually the ones they make are just a really flimsy, but overpriced, big cardboard box and a bunch of useless junk floating around inside.

Yep, it was a bit of a pleasant surprise to me too. This is actually a piece that looks nice to display. I share your impression about their typical releases based on most of the other ones I have seen. I also have LRG's PS4 Dangun Feveron box, which indeed is just a pretty standard cardboard box - though maybe one of their better ones, it has a nice metallic disco ball background.

[Lemnear]

What's the problem with a tropical beach with only one small enemy base?
Give me more Stages with the sea! (or even under the sea!)
In fact i would like more Batsugun... it's the only existing game that is perfectly in the middle between Classic and Danmaku....and with a lot of sea!

All this. Stage 2 is actually my absolute favorite in Batsugun from an aesthetic standpoint (visual design as well as music), and is what I always think of first in my head when I think of Batsugun.

Exactly! I believe the artwork in the Saturn Tribute Boosted (which I don't understand why is NOT the cover art in the console menus...) portrays the transition from Stage 1 to Stage 2.

"is there more than one Stage with the sea? Is it very colourful? Then it's mine!"
if there is also a stage with a red sky at sunset it's even better!
Damn it's really easy to sell me a game

Spoiler

Is a waterfall but still.

I think Steven is right, it's time to get In The Hunt

[evil_ash_xero]

I bought a JP PSX version of ItH from EBay a batch of years ago, and it came with this little plushy of the sub. I think it was some sort
of collector's version.

[Randorama]

Batsugun was Toaplan's last game and one of Joker Jun's first games in which he worked as an illustrator (the first one should have been V-V, but as an assistant to the key designers/illustrators?). I believe that it was realeased in a hurry - Toaplan was about to go bankrupt, after all.

Mahou Daisakusen appeared as an arcade title in 1993. The programmers were the ex-Compile group who then operated/founded Raizing/8ing. So, it was their first arcade shmup attempt. Notable is the fact that they pursued the Science Fantasy/Dungeon-punk style (=magic+some science/fantasy+steampunk), which became popular in Japan during the early '90s (Japan should have had an RPG craze in the 1988-1994 period: that's why so many games of the time suddenly have that fantasy/D&D design).

Batsugun and Mahou Daisakusenwere quintessentially liminal games, from an "history of shooting" perspective; snapshots of the transition from one style and (videogame) era to another style and (videogame) era. It's difficult to create a liminal work without the proper Zeitgeist, I guess. I'd actually argue that several games exuded that feeling in 1992/1993; Irem was going to diseappear, too, Taito, Konami and Capcom moved to more powerful hardware...it was a very peculiar era, from what I remember.

This collection is great; a part of me is still amazed that we can get all these modern ports after three decades or so. As a kid, I always played arcade games by taking for granted that they would be lost forever, once their business cycle was over. Preservation of these works warms my Thanos-like heart, to be honest. I suspect that my father will spend his whole retirement years playing all these titles: he had a near-religious fervour for Toaplan, back in the 1980s/1990s.

Agreed with Steven that late Toaplan games were visually stunning - Namco, Sega and Taito had these cool boards that could perform 2.5D graphics, but Toaplan and Irem released games with anime-like animation and backgrounds, in their last periods of activity.

[bobrocks95]

Making an Amazon Japan order when Mushihimesama drops and considering finally grabbing one of the Toaplan Arcade Garage releases- if anyone had to pick just one of the available PS4 releases, which would it be? (Zero Fire, Same Same Same, Kyukyoku Tiger-Heli).

Leaning Same purely because the Amazon Limited version with reversible cover art is on sale, though I feel like I hear much more about Tiger-Heli?

[mirkvid]

Out of the three, Same is the funnest package for me.

[TransatlanticFoe]

It probably depends what you're interested in. I'd summarise them as follows:

Tiger - the excellent arcade Kyukyoku Tiger and 3 different home ports (even the Micronics Famicom port is solid, if a little janky in places). Tiger Heli is decent but a little dated

Shark - the excellent Flying Shark, MD Fire Shark and less-infuriating Western arcade Fire Shark. Same! Same! Same! is a brutal challenge and NES Sky Shark is awful

Zerofire - two solid arcade games, with solid home ports

The bonus arcade games are all pretty niche in my opinion - there's fun to be had in each but I don't think any would cause a swing in favour of a particular collection.

[Sumez]

there's fun to be had in each but I don't think any would cause a swing in favour of a particular collection.

I honestly think Zero Fire might be my favourite due to Horror Story alone. But the fact that I already have a Hishou PCB and barely touched it on the Same collection is probably a big factor there. It would be a clear winner if all the games on that collection were "new" to me.

[Arino]

there's fun to be had in each but I don't think any would cause a swing in favour of a particular collection.

I honestly think Zero Fire might be my favourite due to Horror Story alone. But the fact that I already have a Hishou PCB and barely touched it on the Same collection is probably a big factor there. It would be a clear winner if all the games on that collection were "new" to me.

Nice to see fans of Horror Story

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I bought a JP PSX version of ItH from EBay a batch of years ago, and it came with this little plushy of the sub. I think it was some sort
of collector's version.

Kokopeli Studios (a division of THQ back in the mid-1990s) was responsible for the distribution & sales of the U/C NTSC PSX version of Irem's "In The Hunt" in the USA. Back in October of 1997, American toy retailer chain Kay-B-Toys was selling brand new copies of PSX ItH for a mere $19.99 usd in the video game bargain bins. I managed to find a "disc only" used copy of ItH at a local Gamestop for a mere $3.00 usd -- best twelve quarters ever spent to be able to properly play it on my PSone. It's been mention here in Shmups.org that the PSX version of ItH runs faster than it's Irem M-92 based arcade jamma pcb of the same name indeed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Steven]

Zero Fire is worth it just for Horror Story alone, but it also comes with Hellfire 1P, which is also good. Hishou Same! Same! Same! probably has the easiest collection of games if you exclude Same! 1P. Pretty much everyone will have an easy time with the 2P versions and Hishouzame, and Wardner is one of the easiest Toaplan games.

Tiger-Heli is harder than Hishouzame and Kyuukyoku Tiger is harder than all other Toaplan games except the two insane ones and possibly Dogyuun!!, depending on who you ask, but Kyuukyoku Tiger is also FUCKING INCREDIBLE and probably the most fun game Toaplan ever made aside from Out Zone and Slap Fight, and even then depending on how I feel on the day you ask me, I'd still very possibly take Kyuukyoku Tiger.

What's important is that you'll get Teki-Paki. Let's brainwash the world until everyone plays Teki-Paki~

If you want my actual opinion, here it is: screw it, get all of them.

If you can only get one, uh..................... probably Hishou Same! Same! Same!

[Arino]

Zero Fire is worth it just for Horror Story alone, but it also comes with Hellfire 1P, which is also good. Hishou Same! Same! Same! probably has the easiest collection of games if you exclude Same! 1P. Pretty much everyone will have an easy time with the 2P versions and Hishouzame, and Wardner is one of the easiest Toaplan games.

Tiger-Heli is harder than Hishouzame and Kyuukyoku Tiger is harder than all other Toaplan games except the two insane ones and possibly Dogyuun!!, depending on who you ask, but Kyuukyoku Tiger is also FUCKING INCREDIBLE and probably the most fun game Toaplan ever made aside from Out Zone and Slap Fight, and even then depending on how I feel on the day you ask me, I'd still very possibly take Kyuukyoku Tiger.

What's important is that you'll get Teki-Paki. Let's brainwash the world until everyone plays Teki-Paki~

If you want my actual opinion, here it is: screw it, get all of them.

If you can only get one, uh..................... probably Hishou Same! Same! Same!

2 insane ones are what?

[Steven]

Zero Fire is worth it just for Horror Story alone, but it also comes with Hellfire 1P, which is also good. Hishou Same! Same! Same! probably has the easiest collection of games if you exclude Same! 1P. Pretty much everyone will have an easy time with the 2P versions and Hishouzame, and Wardner is one of the easiest Toaplan games.

Tiger-Heli is harder than Hishouzame and Kyuukyoku Tiger is harder than all other Toaplan games except the two insane ones and possibly Dogyuun!!, depending on who you ask, but Kyuukyoku Tiger is also FUCKING INCREDIBLE and probably the most fun game Toaplan ever made aside from Out Zone and Slap Fight, and even then depending on how I feel on the day you ask me, I'd still very possibly take Kyuukyoku Tiger.

What's important is that you'll get Teki-Paki. Let's brainwash the world until everyone plays Teki-Paki~

If you want my actual opinion, here it is: screw it, get all of them.

If you can only get one, uh..................... probably Hishou Same! Same! Same!

2 insane ones are what?

Tatsujin Ou and Same! Same! Same! 1P

On a technicality Zero Wing is possibly the hardest Toaplan game and one of the hardest games in the genre because rank and bullet speed can become infinitely high, but nobody's going to play it long enough to experience that. On loop 256 enemy bullets are only visible for like 1 frame and they move so fast that the game can't detect their collision properly, so they can go through obstacles and hit you even when you should be safe.

[MJR]

Zero Fire is worth it just for Horror Story alone, but it also comes with Hellfire 1P, which is also good. Hishou Same! Same! Same! probably has the easiest collection of games if you exclude Same! 1P. Pretty much everyone will have an easy time with the 2P versions and Hishouzame, and Wardner is one of the easiest Toaplan games.

Tiger-Heli is harder than Hishouzame and Kyuukyoku Tiger is harder than all other Toaplan games except the two insane ones and possibly Dogyuun!!, depending on who you ask, but Kyuukyoku Tiger is also FUCKING INCREDIBLE and probably the most fun game Toaplan ever made aside from Out Zone and Slap Fight, and even then depending on how I feel on the day you ask me, I'd still very possibly take Kyuukyoku Tiger.

What's important is that you'll get Teki-Paki. Let's brainwash the world until everyone plays Teki-Paki~

If you want my actual opinion, here it is: screw it, get all of them.

If you can only get one, uh..................... probably Hishou Same! Same! Same!

2 insane ones are what?

Tatsujin Ou and Same! Same! Same! 1P

On a technicality Zero Wing is possibly the hardest Toaplan game and one of the hardest games in the genre because rank and bullet speed can become infinitely high, but nobody's going to play it long enough to experience that. On loop 256 enemy bullets are only visible for like 1 frame and they move so fast that the game can't detect their collision properly, so they can go through obstacles and hit you even when you should be safe.

How the heck does anyone even know what loop 256 looks like? Did someone play it with cheat on Mame?

I managed to credit feed the M2 version to the end of the 1st loop, eventually. Meaning that I did go through all the recovery points. I don't remember ever being slapped as hard. Still, I love that game, probably even more than it deserves.

[Steven]

How the heck does anyone even know what loop 256 looks like? Did someone play it with cheat on Mame?

Bitwave Zero Wing practice mode lets you go up to loop 256. Sorry to disappoint everyone that was hoping for a crazy story of how I somehow made it that far lol

Zero Wing is secretly one of the harder/hardest Toaplan games, mostly because recovery is very difficult and you only get like 2 extends per loop unless you get the 1UP or 10UP. It's not that bad at all if you no miss, but if you die just a single time anywhere after stage 3, good luck. It's not impossible to recover, but it's really really really difficult.

[Arino]

Zero Fire is worth it just for Horror Story alone, but it also comes with Hellfire 1P, which is also good. Hishou Same! Same! Same! probably has the easiest collection of games if you exclude Same! 1P. Pretty much everyone will have an easy time with the 2P versions and Hishouzame, and Wardner is one of the easiest Toaplan games.

Tiger-Heli is harder than Hishouzame and Kyuukyoku Tiger is harder than all other Toaplan games except the two insane ones and possibly Dogyuun!!, depending on who you ask, but Kyuukyoku Tiger is also FUCKING INCREDIBLE and probably the most fun game Toaplan ever made aside from Out Zone and Slap Fight, and even then depending on how I feel on the day you ask me, I'd still very possibly take Kyuukyoku Tiger.

What's important is that you'll get Teki-Paki. Let's brainwash the world until everyone plays Teki-Paki~

If you want my actual opinion, here it is: screw it, get all of them.

If you can only get one, uh..................... probably Hishou Same! Same! Same!

2 insane ones are what?

Tatsujin Ou

If you play the FM Towns version with a friend (two players) the game becomes so slow that it's very easy lol.

[bobrocks95]

Funny enough, Batsugun and Flying Shark NES are my only exposure to Toaplan, which aren't very indicative of their output, as wonderful as Batsugun is. I think I'll go with Same Same Same to correct my time spent with Sky Shark NES

[beer gas canister]

Shout out to Steven for advocating for Hishouzame's quality... I picked up the collection recently and it really is a marvelous game. It has a perfect amount of breathing room in each level. K Tiger and Same have more edge, but Hisho is straight up inviting to play.

Same 2-player is surprisingly friendly too, after bashing my head against the 1-player version. I've never gotten trashed by a first level more badly than that lol. It's a hell of a rush coming from Hisho though

[Arino]

Zero Fire is worth it just for Horror Story alone, but it also comes with Hellfire 1P, which is also good. Hishou Same! Same! Same! probably has the easiest collection of games if you exclude Same! 1P. Pretty much everyone will have an easy time with the 2P versions and Hishouzame, and Wardner is one of the easiest Toaplan games.

Tiger-Heli is harder than Hishouzame and Kyuukyoku Tiger is harder than all other Toaplan games except the two insane ones and possibly Dogyuun!!, depending on who you ask, but Kyuukyoku Tiger is also FUCKING INCREDIBLE and probably the most fun game Toaplan ever made aside from Out Zone and Slap Fight, and even then depending on how I feel on the day you ask me, I'd still very possibly take Kyuukyoku Tiger.

What's important is that you'll get Teki-Paki. Let's brainwash the world until everyone plays Teki-Paki~

If you want my actual opinion, here it is: screw it, get all of them.

If you can only get one, uh..................... probably Hishou Same! Same! Same!

I didn't realise there's a 2P version of Hishouzame.

Nothing against you Steven, I value you sharing your knowledge, but speaking in general I think people talk too much about the difficulty of games. These rankings just create unnecessary barriers in your head. If you are an inexperienced player, the easiest arcade STG will seem just as difficult to you as the most difficult one.
Also, imagine someone asking for easier games and for instance they are told: "Play the Game Boy version of Darius, you will easily no miss clear the game on your first try ever!" - and imagine they play the game and don't clear it on their first try. Not on their second attempt either. Imagine how discouraging and mind fucking that situation will become for them.
Of course it's ok to talk about difficulty in games and it's something that is commonly asked about, I just wanted to point out this one side to it.

[Daytime Waitress]

Nothing against you Steven, I value you sharing your knowledge, but speaking in general I think people talk too much about the difficulty of games. These rankings just create unnecessary barriers in your head. If you are an inexperienced player, the easiest arcade STG will seem just as difficult to you as the most difficult one.
Also, imagine someone asking for easier games and for instance they are told: "Play the Game Boy version of Darius, you will easily no miss clear the game on your first try ever!" - and imagine they play the game and don't clear it on their first try. Not on their second attempt either. Imagine how discouraging and mind fucking that situation will become for them.
Of course it's ok to talk about difficulty in games and it's something that is commonly asked about, I just wanted to point out this one side to it.

Difficulty is very subjective, but that's why it's absolutely important to talk about it as openly as possible: to try and get to some barely-tangible objective perspective to hang your hat on, so that folks can plow through their roadblocks and find similarities that they've worked around before. References? I'm the scrub from your example who listened to folks here and got ass-blasted by not being able to 1CC the GG Alestes! I'll go back and do them up proper some other day, because they're incredibly fun. GB Sagaia is much more of a slog, despite being cute as buttons...

Shout out to Steven for advocating for Hishouzame's quality... I picked up the collection recently and it really is a marvelous game. It has a perfect amount of breathing room in each level. K Tiger and Same have more edge, but Hisho is straight up inviting to play.

Hard same.
As in, I agree with your opinion.
Same's pretty hard, though.
Steven's proselytising was instrumental in helping me find one of my fave shooters.
I think the soundtrack was the biggest revelation: it never gets old, after no matter how many restarts.

[Arino]

Zero Fire is worth it just for Horror Story alone, but it also comes with Hellfire 1P, which is also good. Hishou Same! Same! Same! probably has the easiest collection of games if you exclude Same! 1P. Pretty much everyone will have an easy time with the 2P versions and Hishouzame, and Wardner is one of the easiest Toaplan games.

Tiger-Heli is harder than Hishouzame and Kyuukyoku Tiger is harder than all other Toaplan games except the two insane ones and possibly Dogyuun!!, depending on who you ask, but Kyuukyoku Tiger is also FUCKING INCREDIBLE and probably the most fun game Toaplan ever made aside from Out Zone and Slap Fight, and even then depending on how I feel on the day you ask me, I'd still very possibly take Kyuukyoku Tiger.

What's important is that you'll get Teki-Paki. Let's brainwash the world until everyone plays Teki-Paki~

If you want my actual opinion, here it is: screw it, get all of them.

If you can only get one, uh..................... probably Hishou Same! Same! Same!

Steven I can't find the Hishouzame 2P version on my M2 game. Where is it please?

[BIL]

Steven I can't find the Hishouzame 2P version on my M2 game. Where is it please?

There isn't one. Steven was calling the 2P versions of Hellfire and Same³, along with the 1P-only Hishouzame, easier than the notoriously difficult 1P Same³.

Pretty much everyone will have an easy time with the 2P versions [of Hellfire and Same³] - and Hishouzame