Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

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Klatrymadon
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Klatrymadon »

NeoStrayCat wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 12:48 am For me, the following that I thought was necessary.

Gorgeous: Additional characters Esmeralda and Poini, and the Easter Island stage.
Excellent: Additional characters Strarf and Kokoro, along with the 3 EX stages (St. Gradius Academy, Yebisuboshi, and Donburi Island), and with everyone's alternate costumes. (I too also got the T-301 Anoa DLC that was a Gamestop pre-order bonus.)

Thanks for this! Sadly I wasn't able to top up my credit before the store closed, but I managed to get the Moai stage and Donburi Island, at least!
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BIL »

Kino wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 2:38 am
Lemnear wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2024 8:33 pm The other curiosity was... are there photographs of the studios? In-house studios of Toaplan, CAVE, Raizing, Taito, Kaneko, NMK, UPL, Yumekobo, Compile, Treasure, Psikyo ,Gazelle ,Takumi ,Irem, Jaleco, Data East etc.???
I have always been curious to see the working environment of these developers, especially those who programmed for arcades.
Some of those companies are too obscure to have any existing photos of their development office (Gazelle only existed for what, a cup of coffee or two? That's not long enough to snap a shot), but here's a few I could dig up.

Toaplan
Spoiler
Image
Compile
Spoiler
Image
Image
Treasure
Spoiler
Image
Irem
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
Jaleco
Spoiler
Image
You always bring the best dev lore Image Image Image Fascinating sights. I wonder if that's the desk Suginami slept under while creating Alien Soldier, haha. ;w;7
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Steven »

Lemnear wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:29 pmWhat's that "bzz" noise when bullets pass me? Is this some kind of shield that i don't know about? A score multiplier? What does that sound mean? and the fairy does something?
Bullet grazing. I think it might give score, but I have occasional difficulty due to poor enemy bullet visibility in some spots, so I try to stay far away from enemy bullets if I can help it.

Fairy gives you a bunch of items if you die and a lot of points. There's one on stage 1 and another on stage 4 very close to the beginning of the stage. There might be more, but those are the ones I know about.

BTW use the R missile. It's the best one by far. It's the worst one in IV, but in III it's way more powerful than the other missiles.
Lemnear wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:29 pm I think i have some PSN credit for another game, like 9€, i can get 1 Arcade Archives, or, now that they are on sale, 2 Psikyo games.
I already have the beautiful Strikers 1945 II (one of the few games i practice seriously), i don't know whether to get Samurai Aces, Striker 1999, Gunbird 2, Dragon Blaze or Zero Gunner 2.
I have played exactly none of those, but BIL likes Dragon Blaze, so that's definitely safe.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Lemnear »

Steven wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:39 am
Lemnear wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:29 pmWhat's that "bzz" noise when bullets pass me? Is this some kind of shield that i don't know about? A score multiplier? What does that sound mean? and the fairy does something?
Bullet grazing. I think it might give score, but I have occasional difficulty due to poor enemy bullet visibility in some spots, so I try to stay far away from enemy bullets if I can help it.

Fairy gives you a bunch of items if you die and a lot of points. There's one on stage 1 and another on stage 4 very close to the beginning of the stage. There might be more, but those are the ones I know about.

BTW use the R missile. It's the best one by far. It's the worst one in IV, but in III it's way more powerful than the other missiles.
Lemnear wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:29 pm I think i have some PSN credit for another game, like 9€, i can get 1 Arcade Archives, or, now that they are on sale, 2 Psikyo games.
I already have the beautiful Strikers 1945 II (one of the few games i practice seriously), i don't know whether to get Samurai Aces, Striker 1999, Gunbird 2, Dragon Blaze or Zero Gunner 2.
I have played exactly none of those, but BIL likes Dragon Blaze, so that's definitely safe.
so the fact that i dodge bullets a little badly becomes a reward? LOL :lol:
The bullets seem quite visible to me, more than in Battle Garegga.
However, since Under Defeat HD a game hasn't motivated me this much, it may be "simple and basic" but it's exactly what i was looking for in terms of gameplay, while Ray'z is what i wanted in terms of aesthetics, for some reason RayStorm Stage 2 relaxes me a lot :D
The sales are over so it doesn't matter if it's a Psikyo game or an ACA, mmh...

BTW however, while reading about MOSS, one thing escapes me.
In the wikia it doesn't say that they developed Mad Shark, but in the Allumer wikia it does, so who did?
Spoiler
Image

Image
That is, did MOSS make a clone of Raiden and then become the developer of Raiden himself? A dream come true if so :D

Also i noticed that "Seta 1st Gen Hardware"...did Seta, one of the most obscure and unknown teams in the industry have their own hardware?
Then i go to look for the Seta wiki, and i read that they were even Nintendo's partner for the Arcade (Aleck64) to compete against Sony + Namco (their partner) against the ZN-1 (or System11 which i believe at this point also gives the name to the forum).
I believed that only the largest production companies such as Taito, Capcom, Sega and Namco were capable of producing arcade hardware, nor also SETA!!!
Now i want all the games of this ZN-1/2/etc. XD

EDIT: ty for the R missile info!
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Steven »

Lemnear wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 7:46 am so the fact that i dodge bullets a little badly becomes a reward? LOL :lol:
I checked and I was wrong. No points for bullet grazing in III or IV. The sound is probably just there to let you know that you almost died.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Lemnear »

Steven wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 12:24 pm
Lemnear wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 7:46 am so the fact that i dodge bullets a little badly becomes a reward? LOL :lol:
I checked and I was wrong. No points for bullet grazing in III or IV. The sound is probably just there to let you know that you almost died.
hahahah i love it even more :lol:
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

Lemnear wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 7:46 am
Steven wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 2:39 am
Lemnear wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:29 pmWhat's that "bzz" noise when bullets pass me? Is this some kind of shield that i don't know about? A score multiplier? What does that sound mean? and the fairy does something?
Bullet grazing. I think it might give score, but I have occasional difficulty due to poor enemy bullet visibility in some spots, so I try to stay far away from enemy bullets if I can help it.

Fairy gives you a bunch of items if you die and a lot of points. There's one on stage 1 and another on stage 4 very close to the beginning of the stage. There might be more, but those are the ones I know about.

BTW use the R missile. It's the best one by far. It's the worst one in IV, but in III it's way more powerful than the other missiles.
Lemnear wrote: Tue Jul 30, 2024 6:29 pm I think i have some PSN credit for another game, like 9€, i can get 1 Arcade Archives, or, now that they are on sale, 2 Psikyo games.
I already have the beautiful Strikers 1945 II (one of the few games i practice seriously), i don't know whether to get Samurai Aces, Striker 1999, Gunbird 2, Dragon Blaze or Zero Gunner 2.
I have played exactly none of those, but BIL likes Dragon Blaze, so that's definitely safe.
so the fact that i dodge bullets a little badly becomes a reward? LOL :lol:
The bullets seem quite visible to me, more than in Battle Garegga.
However, since Under Defeat HD a game hasn't motivated me this much, it may be "simple and basic" but it's exactly what i was looking for in terms of gameplay, while Ray'z is what i wanted in terms of aesthetics, for some reason RayStorm Stage 2 relaxes me a lot :D
The sales are over so it doesn't matter if it's a Psikyo game or an ACA, mmh...

BTW however, while reading about MOSS, one thing escapes me.
In the wikia it doesn't say that they developed Mad Shark, but in the Allumer wikia it does, so who did?
Spoiler
Image

Image
That is, did MOSS make a clone of Raiden and then become the developer of Raiden himself? A dream come true if so :D

Also i noticed that "Seta 1st Gen Hardware"...did Seta, one of the most obscure and unknown teams in the industry have their own hardware?
Then i go to look for the Seta wiki, and i read that they were even Nintendo's partner for the Arcade (Aleck64) to compete against Sony + Namco (their partner) against the ZN-1 (or System11 which i believe at this point also gives the name to the forum).
I believed that only the largest production companies such as Taito, Capcom, Sega and Namco were capable of producing arcade hardware, nor also SETA!!!
Now i want all the games of this ZN-1/2/etc. XD

EDIT: ty for the R missile info!

The Seta SSV arcade motherboard was developed as a tri-joint collaborative effort between three Japanese arcade developers/publishers of Seta, Sammy and Visco (hence why you'd see some arcade stg titles such as Visco's Storm Blade released on it).

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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

The SSV hardware would be Seta's 2nd arcade hardware, Mad Shark's PCB is older. And there's a third hardware configuration by them which also used other arcade developers, and the aforementioned cartridge-based system based on N64. Seta was far from being "one of the most obscure and unknown teams in the industry", but more like a well-established company which just didn't focus much on software beyond (successful) mahjong games and their N64 attempt which would end up killing them.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Lemnear »

PC Engine Fan X! wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2024 4:49 pm The Seta SSV arcade motherboard was developed as a tri-joint collaborative effort between three Japanese arcade developers/publishers of Seta, Sammy and Visco (hence why you'd see some arcade stg titles such as Visco's Storm Blade released on it).

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thanks as always!
Bassa-Bassa wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2024 12:37 am The SSV hardware would be Seta's 2nd arcade hardware, Mad Shark's PCB is older. And there's a third hardware configuration by them which also used other arcade developers, and the aforementioned cartridge-based system based on N64. Seta was far from being "one of the most obscure and unknown teams in the industry", but more like a well-established company which just didn't focus much on software beyond (successful) mahjong games and their N64 attempt which would end up killing them.
Yes...i was reading that both Sony and Nintendo wanted to be like SEGA, that is, to have both a 3D console and an arcade platform...and both tried to break into the sector (Sony with Namco and Nintendo with Seta), but both more or less failed in the attempt.
Sony certainly chose its partner better at least...

Then while reading i discovered the existence of Atomiswave, which is the joint effort of SEGA Sammy and SNK post Dreamcast/NeoGeo... but it was basically kind of Dreamcast/NAOMI.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Sony's wasn't just a partnership with Namco. They (Sony) developed the generic Playstation-based ZN board and many companies used it to make their own variant(s) - Namco, Capcom, Taito, Tecmo, Eighting, Konami, to name some.

The Atomiswave wasn't a joint effort either, it was Sammy's venture by their own to basically get rid of so many overstock Dreamcasts once they bought Sega.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Lemnear »

Bassa-Bassa wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2024 1:16 pm Sony's wasn't just a partnership with Namco. They (Sony) developed the generic Playstation-based ZN board and many companies used it to make their own variant(s) - Namco, Capcom, Taito, Tecmo, Eighting, Konami, to name some.

The Atomiswave wasn't a joint effort either, it was Sammy's venture by their own to basically get rid of so many overstock Dreamcasts once they bought Sega.
Thanks again for the clarifications!
Ah so in the end Sony was indirectly in the sector without ever using its own name...
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Eyvah_Ehyeh »

tldr: What shmups are the most liked ones by the Japanese shmup community?

I am curious if you know about any other shmupping communities out there, on the internet. I know Sweden had one, 20 years ago, and there weren't many users, but we that were there were VERY active. Iirc the French also had their own thing going back in the day, or maybe that was just that they had their own shmup wiki type page? But I mean they are know for being notoriously bad at English, so it would make sense. Are they still, though?

We also have the Touhou people, who I assume have their own little bubble. I guess now we have the electric underground on discord and such, as well. But one thing I've been curious about is whether the Japanese have their internet communities, or mostly very tightly knit like offline communities in for example Tokyo and Osaka. I have no clue how big their communities are, do you guys?

The thing I'm MOST curious about, though, is whether any of those communities have their own polls concerning favorite shmups. As someone mentioned in the last result thread on this forum, the games that get good scores, the Gareggas, Ketsuis, Dodonpachis, have been getting good scores since time immemorial - or not far from it. I'm curious to know whether the japanese shmuppers have different tastes.

A bit off topic, but I've been watching a documentary mini-series on cave shmups (reaallly mini now, but still with some info beyond just showcasing the games in question), and at one point they mention that Ketsui wasn't very liked when it was released. Was it here, in the West? Now iirc, Ketsui was one of those almost "mythical" games, because it was one of the last CAVE games that was playable through MAME (not counting like saidaioujou, maybe), so perhaps this was part of the reason for Ketsui not being popular in the west either, but ALSO contributed to it actually being more popular afterward, because the yearning and hype gave it a nice boost (and also was something different when we finally got to play it at a time where some of us had had it UP TO HERE with the cute girl in shmups thing).

Any other games that had a glow up here in the West (or East)?
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

Bassa-Bassa wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2024 12:37 am The SSV hardware would be Seta's 2nd arcade hardware, Mad Shark's PCB is older. And there's a third hardware configuration by them which also used other arcade developers, and the aforementioned cartridge-based system based on N64. Seta was far from being "one of the most obscure and unknown teams in the industry", but more like a well-established company which just didn't focus much on software beyond (successful) mahjong games and their N64 attempt which would end up killing them.

Yes, that'd be the Seta Aleck arcade motherboard that accepted Aleck game cartridges -- even Star Soldier: Vanishing Earth arcade stg was released for it.

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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Lemnear »

I've picked up a lot of SHMUPS (thanks to sales) in a short time, the problem is that i find a notable difficulty gap between me and many of the games i've picked up.
I'm more or less at a Batsugun Special level of difficulty (i always get to at least the 4th Boss with a Credit even without having played it for a while).
The problem is, however, that whatever i get, it's too big a jump in difficulty, and i often find myself having to lower the difficulty//use more credits than i would like, or use save-state...
What would be the next step starting from Batsugun Special (approximately)? I can't find that "middle" space of difficulty, and then slowly move on to the harder stuff.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Air Master Burst »

Lemnear wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:21 pm The problem is, however, that whatever i get, it's too big a jump in difficulty, and i often find myself having to lower the difficulty//use more credits than i would like, or use save-state...
Yep.
Lemnear wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:21 pm What would be the next step starting from Batsugun Special (approximately)? I can't find that "middle" space of difficulty, and then slowly move on to the harder stuff.
Save-state practice is the best way, but at the very least credit feed. If you just play from the start each time you spend most of your playing time practicing stuff you're already good at. Practice the hard parts a bunch instead of just playing until your credit ends each time. Gotta train up for these kinds of games.

ETA: Jupiter especially is a bit of a slog, you need to get your side-to-side rhythm down for the first stage and manage the order you destroy boss bits in the second. Save state practice is the way.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

Eyvah_Ehyeh wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:27 pm tldr: What shmups are the most liked ones by the Japanese shmup community?

I am curious if you know about any other shmupping communities out there, on the internet. I know Sweden had one, 20 years ago, and there weren't many users, but we that were there were VERY active. Iirc the French also had their own thing going back in the day, or maybe that was just that they had their own shmup wiki type page? But I mean they are know for being notoriously bad at English, so it would make sense. Are they still, though?

We also have the Touhou people, who I assume have their own little bubble. I guess now we have the electric underground on discord and such, as well. But one thing I've been curious about is whether the Japanese have their internet communities, or mostly very tightly knit like offline communities in for example Tokyo and Osaka. I have no clue how big their communities are, do you guys?

The thing I'm MOST curious about, though, is whether any of those communities have their own polls concerning favorite shmups. As someone mentioned in the last result thread on this forum, the games that get good scores, the Gareggas, Ketsuis, Dodonpachis, have been getting good scores since time immemorial - or not far from it. I'm curious to know whether the japanese shmuppers have different tastes.

A bit off topic, but I've been watching a documentary mini-series on cave shmups (reaallly mini now, but still with some info beyond just showcasing the games in question), and at one point they mention that Ketsui wasn't very liked when it was released. Was it here, in the West? Now iirc, Ketsui was one of those almost "mythical" games, because it was one of the last CAVE games that was playable through MAME (not counting like saidaioujou, maybe), so perhaps this was part of the reason for Ketsui not being popular in the west either, but ALSO contributed to it actually being more popular afterward, because the yearning and hype gave it a nice boost (and also was something different when we finally got to play it at a time where some of us had had it UP TO HERE with the cute girl in shmups thing).

Any other games that had a glow up here in the West (or East)?

There was a time when you could get the IGS PGM Ketsui pcb for $350.00-$375.00 usd (before it shot up in value). Some shmuppers were shocked/surprised when it rose up, value-wise, in 2004-2005 when non-shmuppers got the 411 that it was a solid Cave arcade stg game worth owning/playing (thus gobbling up all the leftover Ketsui pcbs that were still available on the secondary arcade pcb collector's market). I sold mine before it went up "price-wise" and eventually, bought another one but at double the price of my first one (live and learn as the ol' saying goes, right?). Of course nowadays, a Ketsui pcb is yours if you want it bad enough but be prepared to pay up in the four figure range for one. All the IGS PGM games of Dodonpachi-DOJ, ESPGaluda & Ketsui run just fine with Final Burn Neo (as it's quite a competent arcade emulator, indeed, besides Mame).

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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BIL »

Lemnear wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:21 pmThe problem is, however, that whatever i get, it's too big a jump in difficulty, and i often find myself having to lower the difficulty//use more credits than i would like, or use save-state...
Save states undeniably make learning arcade games easier, by isolating trouble spots, but they won't magically make you better at them. People would be knocking over the hardest stuff left and right for easy cred, if that was true. And they most definitely won't reduce the pressure of full runs. You will consistently see the minority of players who can clear historic brutalisers like Gradius III, Same3, and Raiden II remark how tough they are even with the expedience of savestates. This doesn't even get into scoring, where 1CC competence is a prerequisite.

I know that back in the day, at the cabs, attaining 1CC competence would've been a far rockier road than nowadays via M2/Hamster. It'd involve a great deal more endurance, playing doomed credits over and over to learn lategame hurdles by piecemeal, likely with in-person communal support. Savestates do eliminate that aspect. I could well imagine some shunning them on principle, as with autofire.

OTOH, I don't have that kind of time anymore. Even if I did, it'd be neutralised by the sheer tonnage of M2 and Hamster's PS4 backlog alone. And I always thought Stage Practice was a good idea for arcade ports, ever since the PS1 Raystorm days. So I don't think they're harmful. These games always come down to iterative mastery, and the ideal of busting out killer runs on demand. The former is secondary to the latter, imo.

Credits are another practice tool, and an unequivocally legitimate one, unlike savestates added decades after the fact. The only time you should worry about credit-feeding is if you're not gradually going further on less of them; ie, you're not learning. Not all games allow credit feeding, ofc. :wink: And some become unrecognisably easier due to Rank reduction, or other player service. You should factor that in.

I wouldn't reduce the difficulty, personally. In my experience, that can cause you to develop bad habits and a false sense of competence, which the defaults will slap out of you regardless. OTOH, maybe seeing stages and bosses at a lower intensity might aid the learning process? As with credit feeding, I suppose it depends heavily on the game, there. If a game's Easy setting allows strategies that simply won't work on defaults, avoid it. If it instead lets you develop routes and patterns that can be tightened up for defaults, that's obviously much better.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by samspot »

I am playing Ketsui arcade challenge. Should I take the offer to start at a lower level or keep it pegged at 10? At first I thought it was weird that M2 even offered 10 levels for each challenge. But after playing for a while 10 may be unattainable for me in the later stages. I assume 10 represents arcade-normal and not some higher dip setting.

I don’t think I will try to 1cc Ketsui, but it’ll be fun iterating the arcade challenges.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Steven »

BIL wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 11:04 am
Lemnear wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:21 pmThe problem is, however, that whatever i get, it's too big a jump in difficulty, and i often find myself having to lower the difficulty//use more credits than i would like, or use save-state...
Save states undeniably make learning arcade games easier, by isolating trouble spots, but they won't magically make you better at them. People would be knocking over the hardest stuff left and right for easy cred, if that was true. And they most definitely won't reduce the pressure of full runs. You will consistently see the minority of players who can clear historic brutalisers like Gradius III, Same3, and Raiden II remark how tough they are even with the expedience of savestates. This doesn't even get into scoring, where 1CC competence is a prerequisite.
Can and will confirm that Same! Same! Same! is an absolutely vicious and sadistic game even with save states and training mode. That's part of what makes it so fun!

Yesterday I decided to slack off and play Daioujou Black Label instead of doing work stuff (which I have to finish before tomorrow and I really should be doing instead of typing this, but uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) and I decided to save state no miss no bomb no hyper my way to Kouryuu for some reason and even with the save states it was very, very difficult. When I actually got to Kouryuu after 3 hours of save->load->repeat, I got my ass kicked so hard that I gave up.

I'd actually say that even at zero rank I have way, WAY more difficulty with Daioujou BL than Same!, but I'm not used to bullet hell gameplay at all (that tiny hurtbox that all bullet hell games have... I HATE IT SO FUCKING MUCH and the worst part is these games would be completely unplayable without it, so you can't even fix it by making it larger and easier to know where it is without ruining the games) and have no idea where the enemies are in Daioujou or how they attack, all of which contribute greatly to the difficulty that I had.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by To Far Away Times »

In my experience, DOJ is a game that needs a route. It is a very consistent game with only very minor randomized elements, like R-Type. And like R-Type, it kinda needs the same save state and plan your route approach. It's all about being aggressive in DOJ and trying to play higher up on the screen and knowing where enemies will come from.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Steven »

I'mma tell you a secret. It's a secret, so you can't tell anyone.
Spoiler
I don't actually like Daioujou very much at all. I don't think it's a bad game, but I sure as hell don't enjoy playing it. I might try for Black Label 1-ALL since I'm already over halfway there, but if I do clear it, I'm probably never playing any version of it again except maybe Death Label for the lols
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Lemnear »

BIL wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2024 11:04 am
Lemnear wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:21 pmThe problem is, however, that whatever i get, it's too big a jump in difficulty, and i often find myself having to lower the difficulty//use more credits than i would like, or use save-state...
Save states undeniably make learning arcade games easier, by isolating trouble spots, but they won't magically make you better at them. People would be knocking over the hardest stuff left and right for easy cred, if that was true. And they most definitely won't reduce the pressure of full runs. You will consistently see the minority of players who can clear historic brutalisers like Gradius III, Same3, and Raiden II remark how tough they are even with the expedience of savestates. This doesn't even get into scoring, where 1CC competence is a prerequisite.

I know that back in the day, at the cabs, attaining 1CC competence would've been a far rockier road than nowadays via M2/Hamster. It'd involve a great deal more endurance, playing doomed credits over and over to learn lategame hurdles by piecemeal, likely with in-person communal support. Savestates do eliminate that aspect. I could well imagine some shunning them on principle, as with autofire.

OTOH, I don't have that kind of time anymore. Even if I did, it'd be neutralised by the sheer tonnage of M2 and Hamster's PS4 backlog alone. And I always thought Stage Practice was a good idea for arcade ports, ever since the PS1 Raystorm days. So I don't think they're harmful. These games always come down to iterative mastery, and the ideal of busting out killer runs on demand. The former is secondary to the latter, imo.

Credits are another practice tool, and an unequivocally legitimate one, unlike savestates added decades after the fact. The only time you should worry about credit-feeding is if you're not gradually going further on less of them; ie, you're not learning. Not all games allow credit feeding, ofc. :wink: And some become unrecognisably easier due to Rank reduction, or other player service. You should factor that in.

I wouldn't reduce the difficulty, personally. In my experience, that can cause you to develop bad habits and a false sense of competence, which the defaults will slap out of you regardless. OTOH, maybe seeing stages and bosses at a lower intensity might aid the learning process? As with credit feeding, I suppose it depends heavily on the game, there. If a game's Easy setting allows strategies that simply won't work on defaults, avoid it. If it instead lets you develop routes and patterns that can be tightened up for defaults, that's obviously much better.
I think that for now only Batsugun is that mix between danmaku and classical that i am looking for.
I love everything about that game (everything!,also the aesthetic, i love it).
While with other titles i can't find that pleasure at all, RayStorm is almost relaxing for the first three stages, then towards the end it gets a little nerve-wracking (and eye straining). Similar speech for RayCrisis, in fact i find it easier, perhaps because it is shorter.
Raiden III doesn't have the savestates or infinite credits... I also think it's the hardest game i have. I can't do anything but try and try again...
Darius (especially the older ones) are absolutely punishing if you lose even a single life... or missing some power-ups. But they are stylistically too sublime to give up...i love It

Strange because with Batsugun Special (but also with the normal one), i'm comfortable, as if it was made specifically for me, and i can't find something "similar", nothing has that feeling and i have quite a few games now :?
I also find it easy to memorize, a bit like Psikyo games, they are difficult it's true, but they are very short and therefore easy to memorize. Over 20min i really struggle... I'm not good at Endurance.
A bit like Ridge Racer...i can't stop playing with it, because everything is so smooth! Exactly the way i like it :D

Yes, i also noticed that lowering the difficulty doesn't help, for example in Strikers 1945 II some attacks are even absent, and you basically have to learn the game several times.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Steven »

Try Eschatos. If it's too hard on normal, try it on easy.
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Randorama »

I am slowly entering the 2020s, shmups-wise. So: which Exa games have received PC/Steam ports? I am sure that I overlooked the relevant thread, sorry.
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I.M. Banks, "Consider Phlebas" (1988: 43).
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Lemnear »

Eyvah_Ehyeh wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:27 pm tldr: What shmups are the most liked ones by the Japanese shmup community?
I've been wondering this for a while :?:
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

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Lemnear wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 10:21 pm I've picked up a lot of SHMUPS (thanks to sales) in a short time, the problem is that i find a notable difficulty gap between me and many of the games i've picked up.
I'm more or less at a Batsugun Special level of difficulty (i always get to at least the 4th Boss with a Credit even without having played it for a while).
The problem is, however, that whatever i get, it's too big a jump in difficulty, and i often find myself having to lower the difficulty//use more credits than i would like, or use save-state...
What would be the next step starting from Batsugun Special (approximately)? I can't find that "middle" space of difficulty, and then slowly move on to the harder stuff.
If you want easier STGs then don't buy arcade games (ACA, M2). You need to look into the library of the Game Boy, Mega Drive, or PC Engine. You will have a ton of fun with these games.
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Lemnear
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Lemnear »

Arino wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 7:06 am If you want easier STGs then don't buy arcade games (ACA, M2). You need to look into the library of the Game Boy, Mega Drive, or PC Engine. You will have a ton of fun with these games.
never said i want "easier" games, just wanted a more gradual jump from game to game, a progressive ladder.
Lemnear wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2024 6:14 pm
Eyvah_Ehyeh wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2024 7:27 pm tldr: What shmups are the most liked ones by the Japanese shmup community?
I've been wondering this for a while :?:
:roll:
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

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I just watched a video that made me realise I never knew how to score in Judgement Silversword. So you hover enemies with the shield...then kill them?!
What exactly is this all about? Does the shield also deal damage or is it only for points when you hover them? Am I supposed to know when they would leave if I didn't kill them so I milk them before they woud leave and then kill them to get points for both, milking and killing them?
Also there is this fourth button I think but it doesn't do anything. How do you use it?
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Arino wrote:I just watched a video that made me realise I never knew how to score in Judgement Silversword. So you hover enemies with the shield...then kill them?!
Hitting enemies rapidly in a short period of time builds up the multiplier. The shield is extremely good at this, especially if you can hit two enemies at once (Mitsurugi + Mitsurugi's sword, can get up to x99), but rapidly hitting with your main shot can also raise it. The shield does do damage, just not as much as your rapid shot while tapping spreadshot will, usually.

There's also a no miss, no shield bonus where if you keep beating levels without using the shield to touch any bullets, your multiplier will start to go up, to a point where it can be much higher than trying to raise it by attacking or shielding enemies, but this is mainly applicable to WR tier scoring if you're comfortable with dodging everything without the shield as the moment you die or shield a bullet it drops your base multiplier to x1. I believe colour_thief's high scoring run does this. You don't need to do this to get high scores though, and simply learning to beat the game with a large life stock in reserve will get you some seriously impressive scores.

Button 4 is used for the debug mode shot that instant kills everything, including bosses. It's an unlockable bonus that's meant for playtesting and will not allow score saving if you use it in a live run. It's helpful if you're practicing one particular pattern as you can speedkill everything else. ;)
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Re: Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

Post by Arino »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2024 6:04 pm
Arino wrote:I just watched a video that made me realise I never knew how to score in Judgement Silversword. So you hover enemies with the shield...then kill them?!
Hitting enemies rapidly in a short period of time builds up the multiplier. The shield is extremely good at this, especially if you can hit two enemies at once (Mitsurugi + Mitsurugi's sword, can get up to x99), but rapidly hitting with your main shot can also raise it. The shield does do damage, just not as much as your rapid shot while tapping spreadshot will, usually.

There's also a no miss, no shield bonus where if you keep beating levels without using the shield to touch any bullets, your multiplier will start to go up, to a point where it can be much higher than trying to raise it by attacking or shielding enemies, but this is mainly applicable to WR tier scoring if you're comfortable with dodging everything without the shield as the moment you die or shield a bullet it drops your base multiplier to x1. I believe colour_thief's high scoring run does this. You don't need to do this to get high scores though, and simply learning to beat the game with a large life stock in reserve will get you some seriously impressive scores.

Button 4 is used for the debug mode shot that instant kills everything, including bosses. It's an unlockable bonus that's meant for playtesting and will not allow score saving if you use it in a live run. It's helpful if you're practicing one particular pattern as you can speedkill everything else. ;)
Thank you BKR <3
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