Wolf Fang/Skull Fang Saturn Tribute

[BulletMagnet]

Seems the latest "Saturn Tribute" release will combine vert-scroller Skull Fang and mech action side-scroller Wolf Fang; I imagine most folks are more interested in the latter than the former, but it's still technically a Shmups Chat item I suppose, heh.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Best news is that Gurentai gets away once again for now, I guess.

[Arino]

Can they just stop. I hate them.

[Bar81]

Can they just stop. I hate them.

Yup, these are generally trash and add nothing of value

[ExitPlanetDust]

Best news is that Gurentai gets away once again for now, I guess.

Don’t say that. Don’t put that idea out into the world.

[Air Master Burst]

Their Elevator Action Returns is actually pretty solid, although it only beat FB Neo on the working lights by a few months I think.

The less said about their Batsugun the better.

[Starfighter]

I had fun with their Batsugun? But okay when I did my 1CC I used Shmuparch.

[Marc]

Wait, Batsugun is trash now?

[Arino]

Wait, Batsugun is trash now?

Their lazy port of the SS port is.

[Starfighter]

I wouldn't call two extra frames of input latency (which is the only really bad thing about the portport imo) trash, but this isn't a hill I'm willing to die on so I'll just move on.

[Marc]

Wait, Batsugun is trash now?

Their lazy port of the SS port is.

Seems far from lazy to me, but whatever.

[Steven]

Shit Tribute Boosted

It's called Boosted because they boosted the input lag.

[EmperorIng]

Me, when I get to see sick-grabbers talk about how excited they are to pay $80.00 or more for Skull Fang Collector's Edition, this time on new (laggy) hardware!

It's a steal compared to Saturn prices!

[Arino]

Shit Tribute Boosted

It's called Boosted because they boosted the input lag.

LOL. Exactly. It was requested by all the dads who only buy it for their "collection" anyway. Gives them one more reason not to play it.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Disappointed they didn't name this Fang Fang. Wolf Fang looks pretty cool but only found out about it too late to get the Saturn version for a decent price.... Skull Fang looks fairly iffy though.

I wonder if they'll translate it but then Embracer pay to have it stripped from the JP release Still waiting for them to announce a firm date for Leynos 2.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

Disappointed they didn't name this Fang Fang.

[Sengoku Strider]

Seems the latest "Saturn Tribute" release will combine vert-scroller Skull Fang and mech action side-scroller Wolf Fang; I imagine most folks are more interested in the latter than the former, but it's still technically a Shmups Chat item I suppose, heh.

I heard Skull Fang has fighting game motions, I've always wanted to try that out.

[Steven]

Seems the latest "Saturn Tribute" release will combine vert-scroller Skull Fang and mech action side-scroller Wolf Fang; I imagine most folks are more interested in the latter than the former, but it's still technically a Shmups Chat item I suppose, heh.

I heard Skull Fang has fighting game motions, I've always wanted to try that out.

If it's anything like Cotton 2, it's a miserable experience that ruins an otherwise great game. At least for Cotton 2 you can use the X, Y, and Z buttons.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

I heard Skull Fang has fighting game motions, I've always wanted to try that out.

Unless you're in it for the historical value, try Akashicverse instead, game rules. (There's also apparently a KoF shmup spinoff with it, of all things, but I have not tried this one)

[hamfighterx]

I wouldn't call two extra frames of input latency (which is the only really bad thing about the portport imo) trash, but this isn't a hill I'm willing to die on so I'll just move on.

I wouldn't call it "trash" either, that's so overblown - but the overly dramatic whining is so predictable every single time a new S-Tribute release gets mentioned.

GSK summed it up well:

CC's Saturn emulator is largely built off a freeware emulator they acquired and it is reasonably accurate, with the trade-off that it adds an unavoidable 3+ frames of lag to every game it runs; this lag was present well before CC got their hands on it, and when they say they can't get it any lower, I believe them.

Because there's a certain amount of baked-in emulator lag, the responsiveness of their Saturn reissues is especially affected by the amount of input lag present in the original games, and they made the unwise decision of launching the Saturn Tribute line with a trio of games (Cotton 2 + Boomerang + Guardian Force) that were notoriously laggy to begin with, tainting the whole brand going forward. People often categorise certain Saturn Tribute releases as "good" or "bad" and it's certainly true that some are less burdened by input lag than others, but the "good" ones are better for the simple reason that they were extremely responsive to begin with, not because they've had any more effort put into them. CC doesn't get some right and some wrong; they're simply putting the ISOs into their emulator and they come out how they come out, so if you know how much delay any game originally had on Saturn, you'll know exactly how much the Saturn Tribute version will have.

So yeah, for all of these S-Tribute games, you're getting the Saturn port with those extra 3 frames of lag, on modern platforms, for generally a whole lot cheaper than picking up a used copy of the actual Saturn game. Decide for yourself whether that's worth it.

Batsugun feels fine. It may not be an absolutely perfect reference standard port of the arcade board, but until M2 has their crack at it, I find CC's ~$20 port is still a perfectly good time and I've played it a lot this past year+. Batsugun being their first "Boosted" release means it also got some extra enhancements of a very good arranged soundtrack, and some basic "M2 Gadget" style HUD elements. This Wolf Fang release is also "Boosted" and has an arranged sountrack (with some heavy hitters like Shinji Hosoe, Daisuke Matsumoto, ZUNTATA members...). IDK, I'm totally fine paying ~$35 USD for a physical cart of that, and I don't think an extra 3 frames of lag is going to seriously change how much I enjoy playing Wolf/Skull Fang.

LOL. Exactly. It was requested by all the dads who only buy it for their "collection" anyway. Gives them one more reason not to play it.

Better to be the dad who spends their free time yelling at clouds about how games they probably haven't even played are unplayable due to input lag, right?

[Arino]

Better to be the dad who spends their free time yelling at clouds about how games they probably haven't even played are unplayable due to input lag, right?

I have standards. But I envy everybody who doesn't, because their life is so much easier.

[hamfighterx]

Is there anyone here who actually played Batsugun S-Tribute and found it that horrible? In my experience, it really isn't some unplayable mess. It would be surprising to me for anyone to find it that bad unless you fall into the categories of (1) people who are unusually sensitive to lag, or (2) Batsugun megafans who are used to PCB-only and chasing WW high scores. I expect the vast majority of people who want to play the game will be just fine with it. I know I was, and while I'm no pro Batsugun player, I've played a good bit of the Saturn release over the years so have a decent frame of reference.

It feels like people are often happier to just be miserable and parrot stuff like The Electric Underground's overblown rants though, to each their own.

[Jonpachi]

Is there anyone here who actually played Batsugun S-Tribute and found it that horrible? In my experience, it really isn't some unplayable mess. It would be surprising to me for anyone to find it that bad unless you fall into the categories of (1) people who are unusually sensitive to lag, or (2) Batsugun megafans who are used to PCB-only and chasing WW high scores. I expect the vast majority of people who want to play the game will be just fine with it. I know I was, and while I'm no pro Batsugun player, I've played a good bit of the Saturn release over the years so have a decent frame of reference.

It feels like people are often happier to just be miserable and parrot stuff like The Electric Underground's overblown rants though, to each their own.

I would second this, as I own Batsugun on Saturn as well but find this version quite playable. I would partially qualify that statement with the notion that Batsugun is both very beginner-friendly and not terribly twitchy, which makes the port all the more passable. I was able to get to 2-4 on Special, so getting through the first loop at least is perfectly achievable, but I couldn't speak to how it feels to play at a WR level. I do think price should be considered somewhat, as this was quite attainable for about $25 USD, making it a clear budget option. No, that doesn't give them a pass at being lazy, but I don't think this version is the crime that was Cotton 2/Boomerang/Guardian Force.

That said, neither Skull Fang or Wolf Fang are worth full retail, not in any state. If they intend to push prices up that high, then they've lost the plot.

[Arino]

people who are unusually sensitive to lag

I am as sensitive as a clit. But seriously. I prefer big screens and although my biggest screen does already have very low IL, I can still tell that my monitor has even less.
And as you already said, some SS ports have more IL than their respective arcade versions.

Therefore, generally speaking:
IL from being ported from ARC to SS
IL from playing on a modern screen instead of CRT
IL from City Connection being pathetic
even more IL if you play on Switch
even more IL depending on the input device you are using

All that IL added together, it's up to you whether the price of that SS Tribute version still makes it a good choice.
If I didn't have anything at all, I'd still rather get a CRT from the dumpster, a cheap SS and just burn the game in question. Might be just as much as that SS Tribute and it would even look and play 100 times better.

I have never played this City Connection version of SS Batsugun in particular, but I have had enough experience with the "efforts" of City Connection to dislike them for good reasons. Every single time their work is nothing but a lazy and shameful cash grab, targeting casuals, dads, collectors, and just anybody who doesn't care. They will never get their shit together. Also, why would I wait every time they release something new until someone lag tests it? To me CC = don't buy. Plus I dislike them because most likely some people have had a bad experience with CC and then conclude that games handled by ACA or M2 are just as bad.
By now there are so many ways to play those games and every single one is probably better (some cheaper) than supporting CC.

[Jonpachi]

IL from playing on a modern screen instead of CRT

I think we need to start removing this as a blanket statement. There are very affordable gaming monitors now that offer nearly imperceptible lag (0.1 to 0.3) that put them just about on par with a CRT.

That said, you are right about set-ups being a big part of this conversation. If you're running a Switch on your old 1080p flat-screen TV from 2010 then you're just fucking yourself.

[Bassa-Bassa]

IL from being ported from ARC to SS

This isn't true either. It's quite the opposite if anything, actually.

Which does not mean that porting the SAT version instead of the arcade one these days is not the perfect definition of laziness.

[Arino]

IL from playing on a modern screen instead of CRT

I think we need to start removing this as a blanket statement. There are very affordable gaming monitors now that offer nearly imperceptible lag (0.1 to 0.3) that put them just about on par with a CRT.

That said, you are right about set-ups being a big part of this conversation. If you're running a Switch on your old 1080p flat-screen TV from 2010 then you're just fucking yourself.

Flat screens are never as good as CRTs in this regard. However, the two flat screens I use most of the time are a "iiyama G-Master G2770HSU-B1, 27 Inch, Fast IPS, 165 Hz, 0.8 ms, FreeSync Premium, Full HD 1920 x 1080, 1 x HDMI, 1 x DisplayPort" as a PC monitor and a 240Hz TV by TCL from 2023 with super low IL for my PS4 Pro. According to the manufacturer this is the best model they have in terms of input lag. So no, I do not just dislike CC because I'm an idiot and never knew that my screens are shit lol.

IL from being ported from ARC to SS

This isn't true either. It's quite the opposite if anything, indeed.

Which does not mean that porting the SAT version instead of the arcade one these days is not the perfect definition of laziness.

Maybe this isn't true for Batsugun in particular. I have played both the PCB and the SS version of Batsugun many times and I couldn't tell if the SS version was a little less responsive. But I was speaking in general as that was a contributing factor with other games as mentioned above.

Fortunately I bought all good games I ever wanted for the SS a long time ago so I don't really care what CC do. I simply dislike them for the reasons I explained above. And it just baffles me how anybody in their right mind could possibly defend them. To each their own.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Nobody mentioned here that the SAT ports got additional lag vs the PCB.

[Jonpachi]

Nobody mentioned here that the SAT ports got additional lag vs the PCB.

Like four posts up it was in Arino’s list

[Air Master Burst]

Is there anyone here who actually played Batsugun S-Tribute and found it that horrible? In my experience, it really isn't some unplayable mess.

It's not terrible, but it's noticably worse than both MAME and Bitwave's far cheaper version. If all you have is a console it's... okay, but disappointing. They could've done a lot better.