What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

[Air Master Burst]

There might be some other stuff that I forgot, but this is what I remember.

Ooof, that's quite a list. Have you tried it since the most recent patch? I know they've fixed up a lot of other stuff in some of them, so at least they seem to be trying.

What's the best non-PCB version? Astro Mini? Is it even worth not using MAME yet?

[Steven]

There might be some other stuff that I forgot, but this is what I remember.

Ooof, that's quite a list. Have you tried it since the most recent patch? I know they've fixed up a lot of other stuff in some of them, so at least they seem to be trying.

Yeah, it's weird. I'm not home now, but I can go check it out when I get back. At this point I'm not sure exactly what the status of Out Zone is, but it was not great the last time I checked and I am pretty sure it has not changed that much. At this point I've given up hope that they will actually put the real version of the game in there. At least I have it on my PCB.

What's the best non-PCB version? Astro Mini? Is it even worth not using MAME yet?

I'd probably say second place after PCB goes to MiSTer... but I'd have to check that, too. The audio used to be really good on MiSTer outside of the text in the intro making an odd sound, but an update some time ago made it worse somehow. I got the PCB slightly before that update, so I haven't played it on MiSTer for a while. If they un-broke the audio, MiSTer is my choice for best alternative to PCB. I'm curious now, so I'll go check it when I get a chance unless I forget, which is highly likely due to my awful memory. Don't let me forget!

Third place goes to MAME, unless the MiSTer audio is still broken. I don't like MAME, but I've heard that it's okay if you set it up properly, which I am too lazy to do or figure out, but that's probably not a bad option if you know how to do that.

The Astro Mini V has a not-insignificant amount of lag. It's playable enough there, but I wouldn't recommend it if you have any other way to play it.

Bitwave's stuff is interesting because it supports (I think) unlimited refresh rates, so if you were to play on that crazy 500Hz Alienware monitor, for example, you'd have stupidly low, practically non-existent input lag that far exceeds what the PCB or MAME or consoles can do, so if they cleaned up their stuff it would potentially be the best way to play these games.

[Air Master Burst]

Bitwave's stuff is interesting because it supports (I think) unlimited refresh rates, so if you were to play on that crazy 500Hz Alienware monitor, for example, you'd have stupidly low, practically non-existent input lag that far exceeds what the PCB or MAME or consoles can do, so if they cleaned up their stuff it would potentially be the best way to play these games.

I'm not a pro, but at this point their Batsugun at least is probably in contention. I'm also in the "no slowdown is better" camp for this game, and the hassle of busting out the Saturn becomes more of a gamble as the years go on.

Which ones are worth getting and which ones are total trash? Out Zone seems like a real miss, but what little I've played of their Truxton seems pretty solid so far.

Fingers crossed Dogyuun and Grind Stormer are closer to Batsugun than Out Zone.

[Steven]

Bitwave's stuff is interesting because it supports (I think) unlimited refresh rates, so if you were to play on that crazy 500Hz Alienware monitor, for example, you'd have stupidly low, practically non-existent input lag that far exceeds what the PCB or MAME or consoles can do, so if they cleaned up their stuff it would potentially be the best way to play these games.

I'm not a pro, but at this point their Batsugun at least is probably in contention.

It's up there, although there aren't many options. Aside from the PCB, you have the Saturn version, which is just emulating the PCB (yeah, it's not a port), the Shitty Connection version, which is emulating the Saturn emulating the PCB and adding a non-trivial amount of lag, and Bitwave, which is emulating the PCB but capable of super low lag if you have a good enough monitor.

Which ones are worth getting and which ones are total trash? Out Zone seems like a real miss, but what little I've played of their Truxton seems pretty solid so far.

Every one of them has at least one problem, although the extent of the problems varies.

Tatsujin has broken music as early as the stage 1 boss (bass is super messed up) and the sound effects are also quite poor, just like almost all of the rest.

The best ones are Batsugun (probably the best one overall), Tatsujin Ou (used to be one of the worst but quickly became one of the best, but even now one of the music channels occasionally messes up when shooting for some reason), probably Daisenpuu (would benefit from better autofire options and I think some of the sound effects are too harsh, but otherwise seems pretty good), and possibly FixEight, which I don't know enough about, but it almost certainly runs at the wrong speed because all of the ones that I have tested against PCB do.

I have only played FixEight four times in total, with three of those times on PCB and once using Bitwave's version, so kind of hard to tell, but it seems not completely broken based on an initial inspection. It's possible some of the colors might be a bit off, like they are on Kyuukyoku Tiger and Out Zone, but who knows.

One cool thing about Tatsujin Ou is that they seem to have increased the sprite limit; there is that spot on stage 2 on PCB where you can hit the sprite limit and everything turns invisible and risks getting you killed, but it doesn't happen here, which is good.

Fingers crossed Dogyuun and Grind Stormer are closer to Batsugun than Out Zone.

They are, but some of the audio on V-V is very harsh. They didn't fix the weird crash thing on Dogyuun!! loop 5, unlike on the Astro City Mini V, where it works just fine because they actually bothered to fix it. Imagine being outdone by what is by far the worst mini console/mini cabinet on the market.

[Air Master Burst]

They are, but some of the audio on V-V is very harsh. They didn't fix the weird crash thing on Dogyuun!! loop 5, unlike on the Astro City Mini V, where it works just fine because they actually bothered to fix it. Imagine being outdone by what is by far the worst mini console/mini cabinet on the market.

Well, the patch notes show they at least tried to fix the audio on these. I'll for sure grab Truxton 2, been meaning to give it a proper go someday, and maybe roll the dice on Grind Stormer. Dogyuun being broken like that is pretty heartbreaking, though.

[Steven]

They are, but some of the audio on V-V is very harsh. They didn't fix the weird crash thing on Dogyuun!! loop 5, unlike on the Astro City Mini V, where it works just fine because they actually bothered to fix it. Imagine being outdone by what is by far the worst mini console/mini cabinet on the market.

Well, the patch notes show they at least tried to fix the audio on these. I'll for sure grab Truxton 2, been meaning to give it a proper go someday, and maybe roll the dice on Grind Stormer. Dogyuun being broken like that is pretty heartbreaking, though.

Dogyuun!! does that on PCB too from what I understand, so I wouldn't worry about it. It's just disappointing that they could have fixed it but didn't for some reason even though there is an official fixed ROM. I'm not sure if they fixed any of the other bad glitches in the game, either, some of which I know also got fixed on the Astro City Mini V.

Unless you are crazy or just like super hard games, Truxton II is easier than Tatsujin Ou, so you should probably play that first. I've seen some players say that there are spots on Truxton II's loop 2 that are easier than the same spot on Tatsujin Ou's loop 1, but I'm not familiar with Truxton II because I never play it, only Tatsujin Ou. Make sure you turn on the stereo soundtrack, as it's really much better in stereo, even if the sound channels cut out when shooting at certain points in the music. Once/if they fix that, it will probably be the best one out of the entire set.

[Arino]

https://ibb.co/5shqQrj

Damn! Rockman World (GB) was kinda hard for a Rockman game! I googled this and people do rank it among the hardest of the series. I am pretty sure though I only cleared it a few years ago and didn't find it as challenging then. Anyway. It was really nice to see it in colors. I hope there will be a lot more of these hacks.

[ryu]

https://ibb.co/5shqQrj

Damn! Rockman World (GB) was kinda hard for a Rockman game! I googled this and people do rank it among the hardest of the series. I am pretty sure though I only cleared it a few years ago and didn't find it as challenging then. Anyway. It was really nice to see it in colors. I hope there will be a lot more of these hacks.

I played that a lot as a kid. Never managed to beat it.

Good job!

[Arino]

https://ibb.co/5shqQrj

Damn! Rockman World (GB) was kinda hard for a Rockman game! I googled this and people do rank it among the hardest of the series. I am pretty sure though I only cleared it a few years ago and didn't find it as challenging then. Anyway. It was really nice to see it in colors. I hope there will be a lot more of these hacks.

I played that a lot as a kid. Never managed to beat it.

Good job!

Thanks! It was still lotsa fun though! I feel you, I was not good at games as a child. I ran into every single bullet in Contra (NES) and I found the Mega Man games very difficult, too. You should try playing it again now, it will be much easier for you

[Bassa-Bassa]

Mame and Mister share the same vertical refresh figures for Toaplan's first generation hardware, which don't seem to be randomly set. The same likely goes for Batsugun. I can't speak about slowdowns replication, but other than that, (Groovy)mame should be the next best thing after the PCB and likely virtually identical for not few instances. You indeed have to know how to set it up and use optimal hardware, but that doesn't make of Mame a bad tool.

[Daytime Waitress]

Playing a stupid amount of Selaco since it dropped.

Not really enamoured with the level design at all.
Nor the stinginess with the ammo.

Adore the gunplay.
And the FEAR-tier AI that sees even the lowest-level pair of mooks coordinating flanking maneuvers and shaving your health bar like they're some kind of dystopian sci-fi Lady Schick in bipedal form.

[XoPachi]

I only played the demo and really enjoyed what Selaco was doing.
I'm waiting for this May update, MAY update, for GloomWood to drop. It was cheap so I got it last week and really liked it.

[Daytime Waitress]

I only played the demo and really enjoyed what Selaco was doing.

I played the demo forever ago, back when I didn't have a decent PC, so my point of comparison is a bit rough. But it definitely hit the same high points I remember enjoying from back then, and there's just that much more polish and - obviously - a lot more of everything. So if you enjoyed the demo, it's a pretty easy recommendation.

I still find that arenas are a bit cramped and you can easily get snagged on random debris and walls when trying to pull off your fully sick John Wick set-pieces. The devs went all-in on creating very lived-in-feeling environments, which is technically and aesthetically impressive, and they absolutely nailed it. But I feel like things could be spaced out a bit more to allow combat to breathe a bit better.

Spoiler

inb4skillissue.

I'm waiting for this May update, MAY update, for GloomWood to drop. It was cheap so I got it last week and really liked it.

That one I adored the demo for (Crow Lads done me a spook), and enjoyed the release, but haven't since really put a lot of time into. I think I got to the section with the dogs, decided that that was less entertaining than outsmarting humanoid enemies, and put the game down for a bit. Daft because I think that section is pretty short and the whole world of Gloomwood has so much damn personality - I ought to give it a fairer shake.

[guigui]

I'm playing Afterimage.

Game is your typical Metroidvania (please dont start an argument on the term, you shmups forum), with so many good regular elements of the formula, and also many good twist that imo makes it stand out in this overcrowded genre. Lists is the best way to describe more precisely I guess :

PROS
+ HUGE interconnected map, cannot quite say that Afterimage is to Metroidvania what Elden Ring is to Open-World stuff, but almost.
+ Exploration is the heart of the game, and there is lot of this to be had.
+ Ingame map is quite well done and easy to use, with the possibility to set marker on it to remember what to revisit later. Very nice in metroidvania genre.
+ Each biome has some unique settings, ennemies, NPC, mechanics and feels fresh new when you discover it. Cavern, lava, haunted town, forest, castle, plains, sewers, more. You name it, you have it.
+ NPC and side-quests are all interesting in some way.
+ Story is quite nice, mysterious at first, but not over intrusive. Think you can ignore it totally if you like. Uncovers in Bioshock and Soul's fashion.
+ Combat is satisfying, not too easy if you play on the hard "advanced" difficulty ; dont play normal if you like to fight. Normal is just exploration, whereas advanced is exploration + fight.
+ Lots of references to other games : Souls, Castlevania. Come on, I'm actually cruising a reversed tower killing bat foes with my whip ! And it does not even feel like a complete ripoff of SotN.

CONS
- Music is ambiant and relaxing only. Would have like more catchiness. The theme in haunted town is quite nice though.
- Game definitely stutters on the Switch. Not enough to ruin the experience for me, but would recommend other platform if you can.
- Game sometimes feels rushed with not so good QoL stuff. See for instance the "overworld map" accessible on the manta ray. Definitely laughable. It kind of add to the charm of it though.

Overall a very recommended game if you like to cruise a nice metroidvania one in a while.

[Steven]

I still say it's possibly too big for its own good. That manta ray was definitely awkward and unexpected, though.

Also worth mentioning is that "Advanced" difficulty is actually normal, and that it was the only difficulty the game launched with and is presumably the intended difficulty because of that, and that "Normal" is actually an easy mode that they added 8 months after launch.

[cfx]

.

[guigui]

For sure water loading screen is weird and off context, and manta ray too !

On the Switch version, there is a very long loading time when you launch the game ; about 1 minutes I guess. I can only imagine this would be thame on PS4. Then during gameplay loading times are very good, both when you die and when you go to menu ; no immersion breaking at all.

Certainly the games loads a lot of stuff beforehand to be faster later. Also fun to note that sometimes during gameplay, you get a very brief black loading screen, especially when you transition fast from biomes to biomes : you're faster than the game ! Again, this does not affect gameplay at all.

[XoPachi]

GloomWood has your boy s p o o k e d playing this new UnderPort update.

[Daytime Waitress]

GloomWood has your boy s p o o k e d playing this new UnderPort update.

Damn, Xo, you got me wanting to play this again. I gotta focus on Selaco for now, but I know what's doing that spookin', and I want to be back in those tunnels.

[Steven]

Updated the MiSTer and checked Out Zone's audio and it's really bad. It plays very nicely, but only if you're willing to play the game on mute. Yes, it's that bad. MiSTer unfortunately sucks miserably at button mapping and autofire features, worse even than Bitwave, but for this game it doesn't matter because the optimal configuration is 30Hz + a normal shot button in case you have to pick up the Burner/Super Ball, and this configuration can be done on the MiSTer using its ultra-awkward and sub-par autofire functionality, or you can just say fuck it and mash because Out Zone plays just fine without auto. I don't like MAME, don't trust it to actually emulate games properly, and don't use it, but at this point it's better for Out Zone than everything except the PCB.

For sure water loading screen is weird and off context, and manta ray too !

The manta is odd, but the water actually makes sense, considering that the whole world was born from and connected through the water that goes through those trees. Because you go through those trees every time you fast travel or die, it actually makes sense within the context of the game that you see water because she's literally inside a bunch of water that carries her to the trees or whatever.

I can't say how the load times are on consoles, but on PC and Steam Deck they're barely there at only like 5 seconds long or something like that. If you know how to do it you can get the black loading screen, but it's only there for less than half a second, so it practically doesn't exist and it's hard to trigger it; the best way I have found is by failing a jumping puzzle to go back really far to a point that the game has already unloaded in order to load and render your current location. I only found one or two places in the entire game where this is even possible.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I don't like MAME, don't trust it to actually emulate games properly

That's a smart approach but it's even smarter not to think about Mame as a whole indivisible thing and just pay attention to it in a per-driver basis.

[Steven]

I don't like MAME, don't trust it to actually emulate games properly

That's a smart approach but it's even smarter not to think about Mame as a whole indivisible thing and just pay attention to it in a per-driver basis.

Too much effort when I can just go buy the PCBs or play them at the local game centers or use ACA or M2 ShotTriggers.

[XoPachi]

...............Aren't PCB's far more difficult and expensive to source, purchase, store, and setup than just using an emulator?

[Air Master Burst]

...............Aren't PCB's far more difficult and expensive to source, purchase, store, and setup than just using an emulator?

Only for plebs who didn't make their own home arcade setup two decades ago when shmup PCBs were like 150 bucks.

[Steven]

The right side audio on my Saturn seems to have stopped working for some reason, so I am temporarily dropping Tokimeki Memorial until my Saturn is fixed. Yes, I can set the audio to mono, but no.

Edit: seems it's actually the cable. Easy enough to fix, I guess.

...............Aren't PCB's far more difficult and expensive to source, purchase, store, and setup than just using an emulator?

Considering how much I dislike and distrust non-M2/non-Hamster emulation and how easy they are to buy in Japan, no.

[Sumez]

Setting up a JAMMA PCB is literally just plugging it into a connector. I much prefer it to ever having to bother with emulators.
The only issue to me, outside of potential costs, is the insane amount of storage space they demand.

[Steven]

Yep, plug it in, turn on the power, and you're all set. They are very simple and convenient to use. They do take up a lot of space, unfortunately, but it's worth it to have them.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I thought the real pain in the ass was maintenance/longevity. And that there's already a lot a of stuff which isn't reasonably available.

[XoPachi]

I thought the real pain in the ass was maintenance/longevity. And that there's already a lot a of stuff which isn't reasonably available.

Cost, space, sourcing, and swapping shit around is why I have never bothered to really mess with it. Emulation's close enough and only getting further along. I can't be bothered.
I didn't even consider potential maintenance. Fuck that.

[Immryr]

To use the parlance of our times, trying to claim that buying and playing arcade PCBs is convenient is an extreme case of copium - even on a shmups forum.