Shmup Perspective & Master Tier List

[gruesomesonofabitch]

I'm currently 36 and have played Shmups casually since I was a kid but within the last 6 years I've gotten heavily into them, actively trying to improve and go after 1CCs. At best I'm a capable player and after extensive research/playing it has become glaringly apparent that Bullet Hells are what deliver my deepest gameplay satisfaction, with Vertical being the preferred perspective (I dig some non Bullet Hells). As with any genre of video games or art in general, now that I better recognize what I look for in Shmups it's hard to spend time with any that aren't genuinely engaging/fun for me. I have the strongest appreciation for these games and my love for the unique experience that they offer (which can't be found anywhere else) only continues to grow.

As far as I can recall, Raiden I & II were my introduction to the genre in arcades and I have fond memories of playing The Raiden Project on my PS1 as a kid...
Fuuuuuck me do those games feel atrocious and entirely miserable to play now!!! This new found impression is likely so dramatic due to preferring later genre titles that would offer noticeably more solid and inspired design.

In Feb.-Mar. of 2023 I embarked on an Arcade/Home Console Shmup marathon where I tried a staggering amount of titles and completed 80 of those (credit feeding of course). I just finished doing something similar and good grief was the experience eye opening. Not only has my improved playing shown how truly difficult certain titles are, some that previously showed appeal are now chores that I have zero drive to run through again.

I have personally found that the vast majority of Arcade Shmups from the early 80's-early 90's are painfully more difficult than even the toughest Bullet Hells for all the wrong reasons:

•Giant Hitboxes

•Slower Ship Speeds

•Bullet Patterns/Density/Speeds that often feel cheap

•Unfair enemy spawn points that require strict memorization

•Needing to constantly tap the fire button
(this can be overlooked when a game is exceptional)

•Being designed to take your quarter relatively quick as this was their intention in an Arcade setting

That being said, many of the games falling into this category just aren't for me despite being aware they have exploits and super players can 1CC any of them with "GeT gUd" practice. Outside of appreciating history and inventiveness, influence only carries so much weight when something improves upon a formula because if the original iteration is still of substance it won't feel lacking.

This brings me to the exclusive Console Shmups on SEGA CD, GENESIS, SNES, NES and TURBOGRAFX that people drone on and on about...
I've tried nearly every genre title that was released exclusively for these consoles and almost none impressed me enough to care about them. Many are cool games that still play very well and have stellar pixel art accompanied by great music, I just find it very difficult to not view them as inferior to the titles that I find infinitely more enjoyable (there is no intention to bash a certain game or system that you may love). As an aside, both the SATURN and PS1 Shmup libraries seem to mostly consist of ARCADE ports with several of the more notable titles having releases on more current platforms. Relative to this fact I genuinely have zero understanding as to why the SATURN in particular is still raved about by the Shmup community; the Model 2 SATURN controller is extremely excellent so I fully get that praise.

While this is entirely a to each their own subject based on taste, if you strongly disagree with any of my views then offer some cogent arguments (casting aside nostalgia) as to what I might be misinterpreting and in turn missing out on. Please feel free to gush about why any and all Shmups excite you...
What style do you prefer, what are some of your favorites titles and what things have improved your playing over time?



There are still many Shmups that I'm interested in trying so these are my current tier lists relative to what I've experienced...

Top ten heavy hitters that I adore entirely (possibly in this order):

•Wild Guns Reloaded
(my absolute favorite video game and since Gallery Shooters have a lot in common with Shmups they could be lumped in with the genre)

•Danmaku Unlimited 3
(my favorite Shmup as of now)

•Nex Machina
(an incredibly wonderful Twin-Stick Shooter that feels very much at home in the genre)

•Rolling Gunner

•DoDonPachi DaiOuJou

•Ketsui Kizuna Jigoku Tachi

•Esp Ra.De.

•Ikaruga

•Mushihimesama

•Deathsmiles


Titles that I really enjoy and always have fun with:

•Akai Katana

•Batsugun

•Deathsmles II Makai no Merry Christmas
(II X Mode is very fun and I fail to understand why the game is shit on)

•DonPachi

•DoDonPachi

•DoDonPachi DaiFukkatsu

•Espgaluda

•Espgaluda II

•Ginga Force

•Gunbird

•Gunbird 2

•Guwange
(Walking Shmup that hasn't yet clicked with me but I really want to understand it)

•Pocky & Rocky Reshrined
(Walking Shmup)

•Progear

•Radiant Silvergun

•Raiden V
(this is the only series entry that I enjoy. the game itself may not be a super favorite of mine but its OST is simply one of the best that I've ever heard in any video game. the way that each track is beautifully woven throughout the stages to compliment each moment and transition is incredibly thoughtful. despite its flaws I highly recommend experiencing the game at least once)

•Shock Troopers
(Walking Shmup)

•Sin & Punishment Star Successor
(Scrolling Gallery Shooter)

•Star Fox 64
(Scrolling Gallery Shooter)

•Strikers 1945

•Strikers 1945 II

•Strikers 1945 III

•Xeno Crisis
(Twin-Stick Shooter)


Titles that I appreciate and enjoy (to varying degrees) but don't get the urge to play often:

•Battle Garegga
(the game is really cool but managing Raizing's strict rank system is what spoils the fun for me)

•Blazing Star

•Blood Brothers
(Gallery Shooter that is the inspiration for Wild Guns)

•Cabal
(Gallery Shooter)

•Dogyuun

•Dragon Blaze

•Eco Fighters

•Grind Stormer

•In the Hunt

•Jaws (NES)
(this one is technically a Shmup and oddly fun despite being extremely short and nothing special)

•Pulstar

•R-Type

•R-Type II

•Truxton

•Truxton II

[Air Master Burst]

Bullet hell usually bores me, not least because most of them make it fairly impossible to actually see any of the actual graphics underneath all the giant tokens and score multipliers. Weaving a single pixel through a big shifting maze is probably fun and engaging for some folks, but I play shmups to actually shoot things.

Thunder Force 3 absolutely destroys most Cave games in any sort of meaningful comparison.

ETA: also, you better keep the Saturn's name out your mouth. Arcade-perfect ports are rare even today, and I'm willing to bet you don't play on original PCBs, so all of your favorites are ports too.

[Arino]

I am so triggered.

[gruesomesonofabitch]

Bullet hell usually bores me, not least because most of them make it fairly impossible to actually see any of the actual graphics underneath all the giant tokens and score multipliers. Weaving a single pixel through a big shifting maze is probably fun and engaging for some folks, but I play shmups to actually shoot things.

Thunder Force 3 absolutely destroys most Cave games in any sort of meaningful comparison.

ETA: also, you better keep the Saturn's name out your mouth. Arcade-perfect ports are rare even today, and I'm willing to bet you don't play on original PCBs, so all of your favorites are ports too.

thanks for taking the time to participate.

what exactly is it about Thunder Force 3 that makes it so "meaningful" when compared to other Shmups and is that your favorite?

my observation about the Saturn was to merely stress that it was a valuable Shmup resource when it was current, but now with ROMs and modern ports being available for many of the notable Shmups its continued praise in the genre seems odd.

[Bassa-Bassa]

So long as emulation of STV/SAT doesn't get better (which requires high-end hardware to also get better, so don't hold your breath), Saturn is still essential if you don't want to miss some of the genre's most cherished entries - Gurentai, Hyper Duel, Silvergun, Shienryu, Prikura Daisakusen, the Cotton 2 duo, Guardian Force, Thunder Force V, and other lesser titles as well. It's also the machine to play the Konami GX games if you don't own the PCBs, as emulation of this system is far from finished and there aren't any better options. And not few ports have extra content while being very faithful to the original version (Sengoku Blade, Twinkle Star Sprites, Shippu Mahou Daisakusen...), so many prefer them over the original versions. And I'm not even touching other genres.

Then also there's the thing that not everyone likes roms.

[DMC]

I'm not sure what we're supposed to discuss here? Is there some point in particular you want to discuss?

In Feb.-Mar. of 2023 I embarked on an Arcade/Home Console Shmup marathon where I tried a staggering amount of titles and completed 80 of those (credit feeding of course). I just finished doing something similar and good grief was the experience eye opening. Not only has my improved playing shown how truly difficult certain titles are, some that previously showed appeal are now chores that I have zero drive to run through again.

Maybe the fact you creditfeed through all these games in such short time is the source behind the frustration? High default difficulty and high memorization is just a natural part of the arcade culture in which these games were supposed to thrive. To make money, the average run needs to be short but you also need to give players some incentives to keep playing, that they're improving or getting further (i.e., learning, which involves memorization). So it quite natural that it attracts people that like this aspect of the genre, to learn the game and master it. From this point-of-view it resembles learning to play a musical instrument, which also takes time and effort and can seem like a chore at times, and you would be overwhelmed by learning several instruments at once.

I have often played in bursts of maybe 3 months where I have 1 main game I want to really learn and do well in, and then I have 2-3 side games when I want to play something else. Then I take a break before I begin a new burst. That way I don't burn out as easily, although it happened with Batrider.

But yeah, you seem to have figured out you don't like some of the design features in 80-early 90s shooters, and that's fine of course. I kind of agree, I think the genre evolved by the mid-90s early 2000s, but there is still some really cool games from earlier periods that have aged well like Omega Fighter and Flying Shark.

[Air Master Burst]

my observation about the Saturn was to merely stress that it was a valuable Shmup resource when it was current, but now with ROMs and modern ports being available for many of the notable Shmups its continued praise in the genre seems odd.

Emulation is fine for credit-feeding tourists, but if you ever decide to get into hardcore arcade action for real (proper 1CCs and scoring), you will understand the importance of having the best version possible.

what exactly is it about Thunder Force 3 that makes it so "meaningful" when compared to other Shmups and is that your favorite?

It fucking rules. I guess that's hard to figure out if you don't understand concepts like "aesthetics" or "fun."

Don't worry about my favorite shmup, it's old and atrocious and miserable to play.

[gruesomesonofabitch]

my observation about the Saturn was to merely stress that it was a valuable Shmup resource when it was current, but now with ROMs and modern ports being available for many of the notable Shmups its continued praise in the genre seems odd.

Emulation is fine for credit-feeding tourists, but if you ever decide to get into hardcore arcade action for real (proper 1CCs and scoring), you will understand the importance of having the best version possible.

what exactly is it about Thunder Force 3 that makes it so "meaningful" when compared to other Shmups and is that your favorite?

It fucking rules. I guess that's hard to figure out if you don't understand concepts like "aesthetics" or "fun."

Don't worry about my favorite shmup, it's old and atrocious and miserable to play.

haha, well that only intrigues me further...
what is your favorite Shmup?

taste is fascinating to me so i always enjoy seeing what others find appealing within shared interests.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

For gruesomesonofabitch,

Have you gone through some of the PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 stg titles such as: Blazing Lazers/ Gunhed, Magical Chase, Air Zonk, Super Star Soldier, Soldier Blade, Gate of Thunder, Lords of Thunder/Winds of Thunder, Ginga Fukei Densetu Sapphire, etc.? It's truly worth it's weight in gold, especially with getting a Krikzz made Turbo Everdrive Pro flash cart for the PCE/TG-16 consoles.

The Super CD-Rom2 game of GoT really feels like an arcade game worthy on a candy cab indeed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[gruesomesonofabitch]

For gruesomesonofabitch,

Have you gone through some of the PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 stg titles such as: Blazing Lazers/ Gunhed, Magical Chase, Air Zonk, Super Star Soldier, Soldier Blade, Gate of Thunder, Lords of Thunder/Winds of Thunder, Ginga Fukei Densetu Sapphire, etc.? It's truly worth it's weight in gold, especially with getting a Krikzz made Turbo Everdrive Pro flash cart for the PCE/TG-16 consoles.

The Super CD-Rom2 game of GoT really feels like an arcade game worthy on a candy cab indeed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

thank you for the suggestions...
i have actually tried all of the titles you listed and they just didn't grab me enough to want to play them again, that's not to say they are bad games. Lords of Thunder and Super Star Soldier were the ones i enjoyed most but ironically enough their OSTs made more of an impression than the gameplay. my issue with most console exclusive Shmups of that era is that they tend to have bullet patterns i don't find fun to learn or engage with which supports my fondness/preference for Bullet Hells. i've been playing video games long enough now that more often than not i know fairly quickly upon trying one if it is something that will appeal to me; there is the occasion where a game i wasn't initially into stays on my mind which will lead me to revisit that title.

[XoPachi]

Bullet hell is my favorite genre, but I still really love console STG's.
Without compromising on immediacy and game density (that's moment to moment active playing, not bullet density), the better ones offer what to me feels like storied adventures. I love Thunder Force 4, Axelay, and Gradius Gaiden for that reason. Obviously and thankfully they're not actually super story driven. It's just that there's something clearly unfolding before you. I always think it's cool.

[dethcow]

there's too many things i could say here to "give advice"
but i think it's best to keep it simple:

the best pleasure jolts this genre has to offer comes from playing for score. so play for score.

not gonna muddy the message by including the usual list of caveats (not all shmups are equally enjoyable when played for score nor are even well-designed from a scoring perspective, etc.), so again: play for score. play for score. play for score.

play for score.

[samspot]

You need to pick an older one and put the time in. You can’t grasp the goodness of one of these shooters on a casual tour. I just got the 1cc in Hishousame and I absolutely would have thought it was trash if I had randomly credit fed it. I’m glad that people here singing it’s praises got me to give it a real try.

The Top 25 thread is a good place to start. Pick one that looks and sounds good and really dig into it.

I’m working on the Aleste collection now and that’s another that seemed crappy at first glance but is rapidly growing on me.

[gruesomesonofabitch]

You need to pick an older one and put the time in. You can’t grasp the goodness of one of these shooters on a casual tour. I just got the 1cc in Hishousame and I absolutely would have thought it was trash if I had randomly credit fed it. I’m glad that people here singing it’s praises got me to give it a real try.

The Top 25 thread is a good place to start. Pick one that looks and sounds good and really dig into it.

I’m working on the Aleste collection now and that’s another that seemed crappy at first glance but is rapidly growing on me.

i absolutely appreciate and understand where you're coming from. there are rare instances when a game that i wasn't initially into stays on my mind and that will inevitably lead me to revisit it.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Back in April-May of 1988, I came across an arcade game cabinet of Capcom's classic 1986 horizontal based stg, Hyper Dyne Sidearms, that was distributed in the USA by Romstar Inc in early 1987. Back in those days of 1980s arcade lore, arcade gamers spent real money/quarters which forced the player to be become better at it (if the choice was made to dedicate some serious time & effort to 1CC it or at least aim for a 2CC). It took about several weeks of playing it to finally reach and beat the final boss, Bozon, once & for all (by rote memory). I could get to Bozon on my first life but required a second quarter to finish it off for good (thus a 2CC affair at best). Hence the proper phrase, "quarter muncher," would best describe those '80s arcade game titles indeed.

Of course with Mame, Final Burn Neo and various other arcade game emulators, quarters aren't necessary/required nowadays (making it a relic from a bygone era to never be repeated ever again -- Gen Xers, like myself, can recall those days of arcades in the 1980s with a sense of nostalgia or perhaps through "rose-colored glasses" as others would like to mention). Playing arcade games back then was considered an expensive hobby indeed. The very act of dropping a quarter into an arcade game cab's coin slot is quite a indelible/ingrained experience not to be forgotten, especially in the 21st century.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~