Steven's Same! Same! Same! 1P & Tatsujin Ou Log: A Record of Misery, Pain, and Suffering™

[blazinglazers69]

If you're concerned with the deadzone of an LS-32 adding input lag, you could try the LS-56. That sucker engages the microswitches as soon as you add the slightest bit of tension. There's even the Kowal short-throw mod for it, although I have not personally tried that.

[Steven]

I'll consider it. I'd probably have to put in some work to get any more modern levers to work with my Astro given the old wiring it has.

Today I felt only partially completely miserable instead of entirely completely miserable for the first time in several weeks, so I gave the game another shot and made it to stage 9 again. No miss until about 1/3 through stage 7, where I got sniped by a plane that I somehow missed and managed to mostly recover until the second half of stage 8 annihilated me. Then I found out Inomata Mutsumi died and I went back to feeling bad.

Doing laundry right now, but I will probably try again once I am finished with that. I was hoping to get the clear this month, but that will probably not happen.

[Steven]

Today I somehow made it to the final boss... of stage 9. Recovering at this boss is very difficult. It would be so much easier if you didn't lose speed when you die, but that's not how the game works.

Made it to stage 7 without dying, then got sniped by a tank on the diagonal bridge when I scrolled the screen and managed to bomb my way through stages 8 and 9 before the final stage 9 boss got me just before the planes at the end of the stage appeared. If I went any further I'd have been in stage 10. I have never made it past the stage 9 bosses without dying in any version of the game. I don't think I've made it to the stage 9 bosses without dying either, as I always seem to die on stage 9 prior to the bosses for some reason.

I am at a point where I am comfortable saying that I am very close. Unfortunately due to my schedule I probably won't be able to play the game again at all until the 27th.

[ZPScissors]

Out of curiosity, how much effort have you put in to learning recoveries? I'm still kind of on the fence on how much value there really is in learning recoveries for just a 1-ALL (except Stage 10 and late game bosses of course, those are basically mandatory) but I've started to chip away at that (and pretty much just for Stage 9 because I'm still not focusing on this) and even just from Crossfish's method of learning the beginning/middle/boss checkpoints makes a big difference in how effectively you can get through these stages on low power.

[Steven]

I haven't been keeping track of time exactly, but I have put some decent time into practicing recovery on everything starting from the Otakebi section on stage 5. It has helped me moderately with stage 6, a lot with stage 7 because I usually die there (and I can now die anywhere on the stage and no miss to the end because of it), and a decent amount on stages 8 and 9.

One thing that I do not like about Arcade Challenge is the way it treats the item table. If you choose full power it assumes no miss, which I guess is fair enough, no power assumes you are recovering from the specific place you choose to start at and sets the item table to the beginning, which is perfect, but if I want to practice something like starting at the checkpoint before the stage 9 bosses with a level 0 wide shot and 2 P items as if I had died against the boss with 2 P items, it will spawn me there with the item table assuming... I have no idea, actually, but it won't drop the third P. If I want to practice recovering there with 2 P items and then having to go get the third P item, I can't, so I have to start already having the 5-way shot and then pretend that the blue powerup that the item carrier before the boss drops is a P so I can simulate having to chase a powerup around to power up before arriving at the boss. It's not super terrible or anything, but I wish that it was a little better designed than this.

[Steven]

Today I went to Taito Hey and met some cool people, and among them was Battle Garegga world record holder Kamui.

Everyone other than me showed up an hour late, so for the first time in several months, I played Tatsujin Ou. Somehow, it was the best performance I had ever done. I was somewhere between 25 to 50% through timing out the stage 3 boss before its things smashed into me and I game overed with a new personal high score.

Everyone else showed up and then we watched Kamui play Garegga and then we went to Mikado and did it again there.

Watching Kamui humiliate Battle Garegga with one hand while not even looking because she was playing a different game on her phone at the same time with the other hand was quite something. I don't remember her Hey score, but the Mikado score began with an I, so she completely annihilated every score that is currently posted in the game's high score thread on this forum without even trying.

Talking with Kamui revealed some things: she seems 100% satisfied with the PS4 version of Garegga. I mentioned that I am working on Same! Same! Same! and Tatsujin Ou and she said that while she likes the music of Same! a lot, she has spent so much time playing Garegga that there are a lot of other games that she has never played, including Tatsujin Ou.

Part of me is impressed by the dedication, but the other part of me is saddened by the fact that Kamui hasn't played a lot of other great games because of that dedication. This the price of being the best in the world, isn't it? There are so many games that I want to play but have not, so if it is, I don't want to be the best.

[ryu]

I played Tatsujin Ou. Somehow, it was the best performance I had ever done. I was somewhere between 25 to 50% through timing out the stage 3 boss before its things smashed into me and I game overed with a new personal high score.

That's nice Steven. But now do it properly: one handed while beating Ketsui on your phone with the other hand.

[Steven]

It was Gothic ha Mahou Otome, so I guess it's probably close enough, right?

I really want to learn how to play Garegga now... maybe I might do that next after I kill some more Toaplan games. I have not decided what I want to do after Tatsujin Ou, but it will likely be Tatsujin. Maybe I'll try something completely different after that. RayForce, RayStorm, Garegga, Thunder Dragon 2, and Saidaioujou are potential targets for non-Toa shooting. I might even take a break for a while. Who knows at this point.

[ZPScissors]

I was somewhere between 25 to 50% through timing out the stage 3 boss before its things smashed into me and I game overed with a new personal high score.

Was it on the second time it went to the bottom?

[Steven]

I was somewhere between 25 to 50% through timing out the stage 3 boss before its things smashed into me and I game overed with a new personal high score.

Was it on the second time it went to the bottom?

It had already gone down the first time and it had been up for a while. If I had to guess it probably would not have taken much longer for it to move down again.

I have been wondering about the viability of the search laser. Is there anywhere that it is actually good to use? I just watched mycophobia's Truxton II replay a few minutes ago, and the search laser was used for the entirety of stage 4 aside from the boss, and also parts of the subsequent stages. Truxton II is not quite Tatsujin Ou, so the same strategies might not work on both versions. I guess I can just ask mycophobia about it, but if anyone else knows...

I may skip Truxton II in favour of going directly to Tatsujin Ou even though I know this is generally not recommended. I don't really have any interest in playing the overseas versions unless they are mechanically different, like if they have respawns instead of checkpoints, but I may make an exception for Truxton II if I have too much difficulty or frustration with Tatsujin Ou. I will probably also clear mycophobia's cool ROM hack as well, but I don't know if I will do that before or after regular Tatsujin Ou. I've been waiting for the broken audio on MiSTer to get fixed before I play it, as I really don't want to play this game with broken audio.

[Steven]

I have not really played the game for a while, but I'm stuck on the stage 9 boss. I hate this boss so much, and I've never made it past this boss without dying multiple times on any version of the game. Once I get past it I still have to bomb my way through the hardest stage in the game somehow, which I am not looking forward to.

[SMC]

I have not really played the game for a while, but I'm stuck on the stage 9 boss. I hate this boss so much, and I've never made it past this boss without dying multiple times on any version of the game. Once I get past it I still have to bomb my way through the hardest stage in the game somehow, which I am not looking forward to.

The key to the ninth boss is to understand that the aiming of each of the bullet spreads is determined well in advance - at the moment the cover in the middle begins to open.
If you move to a different quadrant from the one you were in when the cover began to open, you'll be completely safe from the spread, and just need to worry about the fixed-angle flame bullets. I tended to switch between riding on the lower and upper halves of the boss' sprite whenever the boss' position made this possible - this way you can stay completely behind the flame guns, which only shoot outward, and the proximity also makes short work of the bosses when combined with 30hz.

[Steven]

I finally played the game again for the first time in 2 months. Made it to stage 8 boss, where we killed each other. Not bad for such a long break. I was hoping to get this clear in April, but obviously you can't clear the game if you don't actually play it. Still hoping to clear the game this year. No promises.

[ryu]

I wouldn't be surprised if you got the clear soon if you can get that far after a 2 month break.

[Steven]

We'll see. I'm not counting on it, especially since I will likely be very busy for the next two months, so I will have little time to play anything, really. While I do not have work today, I do actually have work stuff to do before tonight. It won't take long to do it, but it's a pain and I don't want to.

I checked and it seems the last time I played was April 14. On that day I played on PCB with no autofire and game overed on the stage 5 boss.



It's actually not that bad without autofire. Bosses are the hard part. Without auto you basically have to bomb the stage 2 boss, you probably should bomb the stage 3 boss, and you might want to bomb the stage 1 bosses if you don't kill the first one before the second one appears, which is probably likely.

I also noticed that the audio on the M2 versions is actually off slightly; the music transitions between the stage music and the stage clear music are not accurately reproduced on the M2 ShotTriggers releases, which bothers me a lot now that I know about it.

Speaking of playing on PCB, I may get the PCB soon. I only have 3 buttons per side, so I won't be able to set up an optimal autofire configuration, but if it's like Slap Fight, Hishouzame, Kyuukyoku Tiger, and Dash Yarou, 2P side controls will work if the PCB is set to upright mode, so I can use the buttons on 2P side to use the Super Fire while having autofire on the 1P side shot buttons. Hopefully it will let me do the same with Tatsujin once I get that, but Tatsujin is getting pretty expensive lately.

[Steven]

Time for shark rehab. I'm playing this again. I played it a few days ago at Mikado, but the autofire configuration was stupid. It had a ~20Hz button and that's it.

Counting Mikado two days ago, today was second time playing this since... I don't even know when. April? It's been way too long. Went into Arcade Challenge today and finally found a good route for stage 7, which I can now finally no miss consistently.

Played the game for real and got sniped by a boat during the Otakebi section of stage 5, but managed to make it to the stage 8 boss, where I got sniped by another boat and game overed. Considering how long it's been since I played this last, this is acceptable. Hope to get the clear this year. It would be nice, but we'll see.

[locoBro1196]

Just the other day while Toaplan-ing I wondered to myself whether Steven was still having a go at Same x3 1P, good to know we are on track for completion by year end or "when it's done"

[Steven]

Well, it's definitely not on track for end of the year, I think. I've been super busy with work and other matters this month as well, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut

over the course of several days last week and some practice just now before I go to bed in a few minutes, I used Arcade Challenge to route stages 7, 8, and 9 and managed to no miss no bomb stage 9 in Arcade Challenge until the third boss tank thing. I was pretty scared of stage 9, but it's not so bad if you are fully powered. If not, the small planes that appear on the sides during the parts with the big green planes will tear you apart. If you are fully powered and do your routing, this is possibly slightly more difficult than stage 4, so it's one of the easier stages in the game. Only things to really note are the bosses and the part where you switch to the flamethrower, and the latter is only because the flamethrower obscures enemy shots so much that it becomes super dangerous.

In theory, I can no miss any stage in the game aside from stages 9 and 10, so, again in theory, I could no miss to at least the third boss of stage 9. In practice, I doubt it, but it is theoretically possible for me to do it right now. The second half of stage 10 is horrifyingly difficult, so that's a problem, but not one to worry about right now; I still haven't actually gotten there yet, but I'm probably going to start routing the second half soon enough.

[ZPScissors]

In theory, I can no miss any stage in the game aside from stages 9 and 10, so, again in theory, I could no miss to at least the third boss of stage 9. In practice, I doubt it, but it is theoretically possible for me to do it right now. The second half of stage 10 is horrifyingly difficult, so that's a problem, but not one to worry about right now; I still haven't actually gotten there yet, but I'm probably going to start routing the second half soon enough.

I felt like Stage 9 got really consistent with practice, so I'd keep routing for No Miss on that one. With how late it is in the game, learning recovery is still worthwhile though, especially the boss checkpoint (which I don't think will be a surprise). Stage 10 is a nightmare to No Miss and I can guarantee you it won't happen on your first 1-ALL so I'd personally focus more on recovery for that one.

[Steven]

Same! 1P PCB get (borrowed, not purchased). Haven't played it yet, but I probably won't play it that much before I give it back; no training features + no save states + no quick reset if I accidentally die super early and want to reset + not enough buttons on my cabinet to set up autofire properly = this is not the best way to practice this game. I'm not even sure why I decided to borrow this PCB anyway, now that I think about it. Will stick to PS5 for now, but I would like to get a PCB clear eventually. That would be cool.

In theory, I can no miss any stage in the game aside from stages 9 and 10, so, again in theory, I could no miss to at least the third boss of stage 9. In practice, I doubt it, but it is theoretically possible for me to do it right now. The second half of stage 10 is horrifyingly difficult, so that's a problem, but not one to worry about right now; I still haven't actually gotten there yet, but I'm probably going to start routing the second half soon enough.

I felt like Stage 9 got really consistent with practice, so I'd keep routing for No Miss on that one. With how late it is in the game, learning recovery is still worthwhile though, especially the boss checkpoint (which I don't think will be a surprise). Stage 10 is a nightmare to No Miss and I can guarantee you it won't happen on your first 1-ALL so I'd personally focus more on recovery for that one.

Yeah, I am not planning on no missing stage 10 on my first attempt. As of right now, my rather idealistic plan is to do my best to no miss until I am past the Otakebi section on stage 10, as that part is not too bad at max speed and max power, but it's very scary when recovering. I'm almost certain to die at the part with the boats, as that part is very difficult, and from there I'm probably just going to have to bomb from checkpoint to checkpoint and hopefully reach the last boss.

Need to specifically practice recovering against both the stage 9 and 10 bosses, as well. The stage 9 bosses aren't so bad with full speed, but without it I have a lot of difficulty against them. Stage 10 boss is also concerning, and I don't know if I've ever actually destroyed it even on the 2P versions without it killing me... also concerning. I would like to improve my scores for the 2P versions as well, but I'd like to do the 1P clear first.

Stage 9 is definitely very consistent, though; after some more practice, I think this is possibly one of the easiest stages in the game assuming the player is at full power. If not, it becomes way more difficult, but if I can no miss to stage 9 somehow, I think I will have almost no trouble no missing to the bosses. Destroying them without dying is another matter, but...

[BIL]

Same! 1P PCB get (borrowed, not purchased). Haven't played it yet, but I probably won't play it that much before I give it back; no training features + no save states + no quick reset if I accidentally die super early and want to reset + not enough buttons on my cabinet to set up autofire properly = this is not the best way to practice this game.

So brutal, the real thing. Can imagine the otaku tackling it in shifts like an underwater demolition team, back then. This is why even the one ACA savestate makes me feel like a wiener, never mind ShotTriggers' Olympic training facility. (particularly when you sneak up ACA's with dummy accounts Save01/02/03 )

[Steven]

Had a small amount of time to play the PCB a little bit today. I wasted about half of that time figuring out the autofire settings, so I didn't actually get to play very much.

I've been using synchronized auto on everything so far and it seems that the fastest synchronized auto that I have is slightly slower than the M2 30Hz synchronized auto, which is really weird because I thought both of them should operate at half of the game's refresh rate. On PCB, if I move to the top of the screen and hold the 30Hz auto button it fires in bursts (it does this on Slap Fight as well), but on PS5 I get a constant stream of fire. Not sure what is going on with that, but on PCB this autofire is too slow to allow me to pointblank the stage 1 bosses safely before they do their randomized scatter shot attack. It's still fast enough to do the pointblank quick kill on the stage 3 boss, so it's not especially concerning, but it's still odd and I have to be careful on stage 1. I'm going to try asynchronous auto later and see if it works better for this game.

Switching from 1P side to 2P side to use the flamethrower is very awkward, as I've gotten so used to pressing the 30Hz button to use the flamethrower that I kept forgetting and had to remind myself to go over to the 2P side to shoot, but it does work.

Same! 1P PCB get (borrowed, not purchased). Haven't played it yet, but I probably won't play it that much before I give it back; no training features + no save states + no quick reset if I accidentally die super early and want to reset + not enough buttons on my cabinet to set up autofire properly = this is not the best way to practice this game.

So brutal, the real thing. Can imagine the otaku tackling it in shifts like an underwater demolition team, back then. This is why even the one ACA savestate makes me feel like a wiener, never mind ShotTriggers' Olympic training facility. (particularly when you sneak up ACA's with dummy accounts Save01/02/03 )

There's probably some crazy person who no missed this thing with no autofire when it released, too. By November 1989, autofire circuits had been in use at game centers for over a year, but I'm not sure how widely adopted they were by game centers. I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the games that was commonly equipped with autofire. It really is inconvenient to practice on PCB, though.

When I was configuring auto, I had to sacrifice a few credits to get everything figured out on 1P side, and then I got the flamethrower on stage 3 only to learn that I forgot to put the PCB in upright mode and couldn't use the flamethrower at all, so I had to turn the game off, find the game's instruction manual on PS5 (thanks for putting that in there, M2!) to find the DIP switch for cabinet type selection, and then I went back to stage 3 only to learn that my 2P side still had half of my Raiden DX autofire settings active because I apparently didn't undo it fully, so my flamethrower was autofiring and had I to fix that... yeah, it's a pain lol. I did get it fixed in the end, but it took way longer than it should have.

Despite all of the inconvenience, I absolutely love playing it on PCB. It has a smoothness that the ShotTriggers release can't compete with. It might just be the CRT, but it's super nice to play it on PCB. It feels more responsive than on PS5 somehow. The PC monitor that I use for everything except PCBs only has half a frame of lag, so it's definitely not my PC monitor, but damn does the PCB feel good!

While I'm here and on the subject of using Toaplan PCBs in upright mode, I might as well remind everyone that Toaplan STGs are specifically designed for and meant to be played on table cabinets with smaller monitors, not upright cabinets, so if you are playing Toaplan on an upright cabinet with a large monitor, You Are Officially Doing it Wrong™! That means that I'm Officially Doing it Wrong™ and I do sometimes wish I'd gotten a table cabinet instead of a New Astro, but too late.

[Steven]

Today is a research and planning day. A cursory review of Jaimers's replay, which I haven't watched in about a year and which I mostly forgot, shows that a lot of the stuff that I thought that I found on my own are things that I must have forgotten that Jaimers did. Fortunately, there's a really excellent and super easy stage 9 boss 3 quick kill in there. That is a boss that I have been having difficulty with, so I'm going to practice when I get a chance.

I also noticed something interesting: my high score at the end of 1-9 is about 1.3 million points below what Jaimers had at game over on 2-5, so in theory, I'm on track to beat Jaimers if I can play in the same manner and survive stage 10 to get those 1 million bonus points plus whatever I pick up on stage 10 and the start of the loop. Not sure where the discrepancy in points came from, and not really worried about score and more interested in just surviving for now, but I'd love to beat Jaimers at a super difficult game like this. That would be cool, but a goal for a later time.

Also reviewed the Funwari Kouryaku section on stage 9 boss recovery. I really don't want to have to recover there because it's difficult and you have to do it perfectly to not die, but it's necessary to know, so no choice. I was practicing this recovery a while ago, but it has indeed been a while, so I forgot most of it.

Didn't sleep too much (at least by choice this time!), so depending on how I feel in a few hours, I might go do some training or attempt a run. I've become bad at the stage 5 Otakebi section again, so while I'd like to no bomb it, I might bomb through it anyway just to not die. Still no strategy for stage 10 yet beyond bombing from checkpoint to checkpoint, but I will try to copy what Jaimers did against the boss.

Haven't had a chance to try to fix the autofire situation on PCB yet, but I'll do that tomorrow. Maybe. Maybe means maybe not, but I'll get to it when I can.

[ZPScissors]

There's probably some crazy person who no missed this thing with no autofire when it released, too. By November 1989, autofire circuits had been in use at game centers for over a year, but I'm not sure how widely adopted they were by game centers. I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the games that was commonly equipped with autofire. It really is inconvenient to practice on PCB, though.

The first and last of the screenshots at the bottom of arcade flyer both look like they were taken with autofire so part of me feels like it might actually be the intended way to play the game.

[Steven]

Took a short detour to play Ketsui of all things for like the 8th time in my life for some reason. I kind of... like this game? Most unexpected. Now is not the time to be distracted by other games, however.

Stage 9 no miss no bomb complete. Probably still going to bomb at least the first boss the next time I get there on a real run just in case because that one is the most dangerous of the three, but I still need to practice recovery.

I did also try the asynchronous autofire on the PCB and it's slightly better, but still can't do the stage 1 boss insta-kill safely. Not sure what to think about that, but for now I'm going to continue playing on PS5 anyway because it actually has a training mode and a quick reset.

There's probably some crazy person who no missed this thing with no autofire when it released, too. By November 1989, autofire circuits had been in use at game centers for over a year, but I'm not sure how widely adopted they were by game centers. I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of the games that was commonly equipped with autofire. It really is inconvenient to practice on PCB, though.

The first and last of the screenshots at the bottom of arcade flyer both look like they were taken with autofire so part of me feels like it might actually be the intended way to play the game.

I am not sure how I missed this until now (probably way too distracted by the ultra badass artwork!), but it does appear to be using autofire. Maybe it was intended, but maybe whoever played the game when they took the screenshots got their ass kicked so hard by it that they needed auto lol. I'm curious, so I'll try to ask someone who worked on the game about it, provided I don't forget, which I probably will.

[Steven]

So by the end of last year I felt completely terrible and lost all motivation to play games in general. Then I got sick at the start of the new year and finally fully recovered a few days ago, so it's a New Day for Me, and New Day for You. That means it's time to play Same! Same! Same!



I don't really like playing it on a huge monitor like this. I got sniped by a tank at the start of stage 2 and then after a few practice runs to get used to playing it on stick and with a slower autofire than I'm used to, I gave it a serious attempt. This is the result.



Not bad, I suppose. Accidentally took the green laser just before the stage 5 boss and got killed, so recovered into stage 6 and then made it about halfway through 7 before getting sniped by a tank on the bridge that I didn't see. I'll take this for now. PCB is cool, but I'm going to switch back to PS5 for now. I accidentally bombed when changing from 2P to 1P side. I have autofire on 1P side and have to use the flamethrower on 2P side, which is a very bad configuration. I really need to get a fourth button on 1P side so I don't have to switch player sides to use the flamethrower in this and the Thunder Laser in Tatsujin.

[Steven]

This is a reminder for me to watch this Tatsujin Ou search laser only 1-ALL when I get a chance: https://youtu.be/CLUfGCdmquY?si=9dQ_SR82qz7dIQKP

Maybe I'll learn something new/cool/useful from watching it. That would be nice.

[Steven]

Randomly practiced Tatsujin Ou recovery for some of the harder checkpoints and OMG this guy



and even worse, those demonic potatoes that come after him. Is there a better way to deal with this bastard than to bomb him twice, leaving myself with only one bomb for the potatoes? I know there's a strategy for the potatoes, but I don't remember it.