Armed Police Batrider - yay or nay...?

[jpj]

was having a look at buying this the other day... anyone got any good/bad things to point out?

any and all help is appreciated

[sven666]

there are no bad points to point out.

some claim it is too fast and that they cant see whats happening - they are lame!

it's the best shmup ever made.

[Brian]

I am lame. I cannot see what is happening and so never play it.

[BulletMagnet]

Batrider does have a lot going for it: it's got perhaps the most secrets and modes to tinker around with in all of shmupdom, not to mention a very healthy character selection, so you won't be at a loss for things to experiment with. The atmosphere is heavy on the cheese, with screen-filling firepower and a "game show host" announcer, among other things, which keeps it from being taken too seriously. The scoring system is similar to Battle Garegga's, with medaling and scenery destruction to keep you busy, but the rank system is more forgiving toward beginners, so you have a bit more flexibility as to whether you prefer to go for score or survival, as opposed to being pretty much stapled (without any anaesthetic, mind you) to a single unorthodox gameplay style.

However, I would also point out one major flaw, namely bullet visibility: enemy shots tend to be small and dully-colored, which can make them very difficult to pick out amidst all the explosions, shrapnel, and even your own beefed-up firepower. There is a code you can put in to change the bullets' colors, but it's not a whole lot more helpful (imo) than Garegga's "red ball" option. Not to mention that there are a handful of spots where the foreground completely obscures part of the playing field, so you can't see ANYthing behind it: Bad Game Design 101.

If you don't object to emulation, I'd recommend downloading MAME and giving it a try before you buy, just to see what it is you're getting (or at least DL a few replays to see the game in action). As I said, there's a lot to love, but I'd also warn you to be prepared for some frustration.

[Gorecki]

I love it, but the sheer amount of unlockable/secret content scares me. Also I dislike the way it defaults to maximum rank when you switch it on. Also, I can't get past level 2

[DEL]

I agree with sven, it has a ridiculous amount of replay value. You must first print off a copy of cigs' and Icarus's Strat , then sit down and sift through it.

Its a 'must-have' board.

[Frederik]

This game definitely has a lot of stuff in it - more selectable characters than your average Street Fighter for instance, every need is covered here. And you can always modify each ships strenghts and weaknesses - like Fire type, option type, both (with speed down) and speed up (with fire and option weaker). Some ships are really good for surviving (with huge and powerful lock-on lasers or massive heatseeking missles), other good for precise disarming enemies and catching medals.

The games has really good music with a hell lot of different samples in it. While the levels itself have a lot of material to be shot and bombed in it for maximal points, the bosses will scare you SHITLESS. Even the second level bosses (the levels are in random order but can be selected too) are really brutal. I don`t find the bullets hard to see; it`s more like the really thin pointed shots kill me most of the time - there are very many different colored and shaped bullets on screen, some slow, most of them really quick. After playing Batrider for a few days and returning to DoDonpachi it was obvious how much harder and more manic Batrider is. There is often very little space to dodge bullets.

On the negative side, the game is unbelieveable hard later on - maybe not to someone who plays Raizing games since ten years; but 1cc the game even on normal settings is out of question for me yet. The advance mode has additional stages and can be considered the "real" mode. You won`t be playing this game without a guide for long; this is not a very intuitive game I am afraid. But then again, Raizing games in general are know for this.


Even the first stage has so many places that you can bomb, shoot or aura that it doesn`t grow boring that soon. On the other hand, you simply need to know what to do when and how to trigger which bosses. I have to say that you don`t need to worry about the huge selection - I usually go with the single ship option (no teams) and select levels in a set order. The scoring system is mostly based on shooting secret spots, milking dangerous forms of bosses and collecting medals.

Graphically the game is absolutely astonishing. Ultra-detailed huge sprites - even very little things like applauding people at stage one that give the game a very eye-catching charm. While the game threw me of the first couple of times it grew on me after time. Oh, and you`ve got the Mahou charakters in it (Gain!) AND the Garegga ships with their option formation left in. So if you`re a Raizing fan this is a MUST BUY. This game is flexible in so many ways that you`ll be busy with it for a LONG time. While Garegga is a bit too industrial and harsh in its gameplay and Bakraid too complicated in its scoring (and a huge letdown in the graphics and level design, though with good music), Batrider is the high point of Raizing in my opinion. Give this one a shot in MAME would be my advice, and give this game some time. It`s certainly not as catching as a Cave game on the first time.

[jpj]

wow, thanks for all the info.

i will definitely have to give it a bit of thought. i got battle garegga yesterday, and quite enjoy it. if the bullets are the same sort of size/speed, i should be fine.

can someone please link me to a video of batrider? (i object to MAME)

[Icarus]

can someone please link me to a video of batrider? (i object to MAME)

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=5349

Second page, half-way down. I made a few stage plays for the strategy discussion.

[jpj]

thanks icarus

[Axon]

Batrider is amazing, if you have the money, get it. I don't think I need to back up my opinion, as others already have.

[mulletgeezer]

i too believe this is one of the best shmups around, though i've always been puzzled by the fact that everyone seems to worship Garegga and it keeps charting highly in the annual poll, whereas APB - which to my mind has all the best features of garegga plus an awful lot more - seems to get little respect and so has become the probably the greatest shmupping bargain around as it sells for a stupidly low price. Does anyone have a theory on why Garegga is perceived as such an awesome game by so many when APB is not? I realise the saturn port for Garegga must be a factor but i can't believe that's the only reason.

[Middlemoor]

Get it man, it's a good game.

[BulletMagnet]

Does anyone have a theory on why Garegga is perceived as such an awesome game by so many when APB is not? I realise the saturn port for Garegga must be a factor but i can't believe that's the only reason.

The port's definitely a factor, since the game thus gets a bit more exposure, but I'd say that the ongoing and especially fierce debate over Garegga in itself has also gotten the game more attention, and made its fans all the more devoted, simply because its merits are challenged more often than Batrider's...thankfully, some new info that's recently been added to the ST thread might finally give us all something more concrete to work with, heh heh.

[Dave_K.]

yay

[Neon]

Garegga is a bit more forgiving, there's the stage restart feature and the fact that you can sometimes die but wind up with the same score/# of extends you would otherwise. So it's less frustrating if you make dumb mistakes, except those fucking flamingoes on level 2...God.

But yeah, both sweet games. I was doing pretty well in the Garegga compo but then my Saturn's battery died and I haven't felt like going back to it and unlocking all that crap again...

[Icarus]

But yeah, both sweet games. I was doing pretty well in the Garegga compo but then my Saturn's battery died and I haven't felt like going back to it and unlocking all that crap again...

I had that problem quite a number of times now - battery just died again this week - but I recommend you look for and get the backup RAM cartridge as soon as posible. The Saturn can save and read directly off the cart.

Thank god as well, as I had some nice scores going. -_-;;

[cigsthecat]

It's one of the absolute greatest games ever made, do yourself a favor.

[system11]

I think it's a little overrated myself. A couple of similar problems to Garegga - ranks up too fast and suffers from invisible bullet syndrome (although only with one or two types of shot, not a sea of invisible death like Garegga). On the upsides it has variety and decent music.

Surprised to see someone bash Bakraid over graphics - it may have fewer visual effects than most of their games, but damn - it's absolutely crystal clear with what's going on.

[cigsthecat]

I think it's a little overrated myself.

OMG you just don't understand my beautiful game! Please write me a detailed report on the the game system immediately!

[BulletMagnet]

Surprised to see someone bash Bakraid over graphics - it may have fewer visual effects than most of their games, but damn - it's absolutely crystal clear with what's going on.

Methinks you sort of need to differentiate between the "practical" and "non-practical" parts of a game's presentation: in terms of the practical side of the visuals, Bakraid owns pretty much every other Raizing shmup (and many shmups in general), as you'll rarely, if ever, suffer from Invisible Bullet Syndrome, a chronic problem for Raizing in particular. However, if you're looking at aesthetics and that sort of thing, stuff that doesn't affect the gameplay, Garegga and just about every other "modern" shmup ever made lords it over Bakraid, since while it's graphics aren't bad quality, certainly, they're painfully generic. The Shinden-like plane, the biplane, the jet plane, the flying pancake...the forest level, the ocean level, the desert level, the train level...the big tank boss, the big plane boss, the big helicopter boss, the big floating boss...all of these designs have been done a million times before, and there's almost NOTHING about Bakraid's versions to make them memorable at all, and barely any plot to hold it up. Granted, I love Bakraid to death, but in terms of its "artistry" in its graphics, for lack of a better term, is deserves (almost) every negative comment it gets. As the review on this very site notes, even the title screen and attract sequence are as cookie-cutter as you can get.

That said, I value the practical aspects over the non-practical ones, which is part of the reason why I personally rate Bakraid over Garegga. But the complaints about Bakraid's presentation aren't entirely ill-founded, to say the least.

[Soldato J]

Does anyone have a theory on why Garegga is perceived as such an awesome game by so many when APB is not? I realise the saturn port for Garegga must be a factor but i can't believe that's the only reason.

The port's definitely a factor, since the game thus gets a bit more exposure, but I'd say that the ongoing and especially fierce debate over Garegga in itself has also gotten the game more attention, and made its fans all the more devoted, simply because its merits are challenged more often than Batrider's...thankfully, some new info that's recently been added to the ST thread might finally give us all something more concrete to work with, heh heh.

Plus in Garegga you can nuke flamingos = teh WIN

But seriously, a resounding chime-in for Batrider--I love it

[sven666]

a sea of invisible death like Garegga

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRGGG!!!!!

[Icarus]

Thank God they didn't use the eye-melting hot pink anywhere in Bakraid. Or did they?

I love Batrider, it's extremely fun, and more of a spiritual sequel to Garegga than Bakraid is. But my heart always lies with Garegga, as I find it the more complete game. Batrider is a game for those who find replay in heavy customisation, Bakraid is the Raizing shmup for those who don't like nasty rank systems, and Garegga is the original, the one for lunatics. ^_-

[Soldato J]

a sea of invisible death like Garegga

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRGGG!!!!!

I'm with sven on this one too lol

[Randorama]

Batrider has one basic element that makes it a charm: the late '90s ultra-cool , shiny and vibrant atmosphere. It's the shmups equivalent of games like "Outrun", i think. Gameplay is Garegga with less insane rank (but that's not something based on analyzing the code ) and more variety and tricks. I would have adored if they made a port of it. Like Dimahoo, i'd add.

[Ord]

I love Batrider, and I can heartily recommend it. I wrote a review of it once if your interested. It's one of Raizings best with an incredible amount of secrets. Loads Of Levels, ships, bosses and others. Brilliant stuff really.

[sven666]

Gameplay is Garegga with less insane rank (but that's not something based on analyzing the code ) .

oh yes, lets get som real good rank-action going right here, its been far to long since last

[Icarus]

oh yes, lets get som real good rank-action going right here, its been far to long since last

Ibara? ^_-

[Frederik]

Plus in Garegga you can nuke flamingos = teh WIN

But seriously, a resounding chime-in for Batrider--I love it

You bomb flamingoes in Batrider too, don`t you know? Level 1, destroying the shed before you tip over the huge sign. That´s actually another thing I like about Batrider - it`s self-references, Black Heart, Bashinet and all those other freaks. Not that I ever played Mahou or something but I still like that "all-stars" setup.

Eh, and just a quick little question as some Batrider people are here: Is there any way to save changes of bullet colors? Its a bit hectic to change them when the game requires your full attention right from the start; I used the bullet color option quite often in Bakraid, just for a little visual change Oh and this is another nice feat in Batrider btw: Depending on what you`re used to, you can simply change the bullet colors; all colors in pink for instance if you find that any easier.