Will there ever be value decrease in ketsui?

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:50 pm

for a year now, the price range is from 500-600. and nothing more. Will we ever see this pcb go for 400 or below within this decade???

howmuchkeefe · Post by **howmuchkeefe** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:13 pm

It seems to me that prices are much, much more sensitive to supply and increases in demand than they are to decreases in demand. My guess is that the value of the PCBs will continue to slowly rise, unless Cave and shmups in general experience a popularity spike, in which case I expect that the price of Ketsui will go through the roof.

I think a good Ketsui port to one of the major consoles is the only thing that could possibly cause the going rate of the boards to drop.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:40 pm

lets hope not.

i like the games i like to have good monetary value as well as game wise (and sureley there are none/few finer than ketsui)

but im one of those dreaded collectors so...

mulletgeezer · Post by **mulletgeezer** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:09 am

i think it's more likely to increase at the moment. excellentcom were selling it for $525 for a long time but now they can't get it from their regular suppliers as they claim there are very few available at the moment and so their price is now (but hopefully only temporarily) $770. Also i notice quite a few shmups members (myself included) are wanting to buy it at the moment but nobody seems to be selling. if demand continues to exceed supply then surely a price rise will occur.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:08 am

howmuchkeefe wrote: I think a good Ketsui port to one of the major consoles is the only thing that could possibly cause the going rate of the boards to drop.

That's not very likely at this point. More likely is having it playable in MAME in a couple years, which may also contribute to the PCB dropping in price.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:23 am

You could buy one and sell it for half the price! That would help!

Post by **system11** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:55 am

Cave game popularity has already spiked. Several titles are now starting to cost less. Eventually as all the people who fought bitterly to buy Ketsui decide to sell it on, the price should come down a bit. Future titles are unlikely to see the same insanity, because many of the collectors have started buying them when new ones are still available.

While it's not perhaps visible to the single minded fanboy contingent, arcade collecting in general is on a downward swing. Decent full games can be had for pennies, and PCBs are getting cheaper again. The people who were artificially boosting the prices of some games by buying them all up to sell, have found that there's no longer a profit to be made, and are out of the game. The rest of us have to live with the long term damage, for a while.

I hope to see the prices come back down to sane levels again. I had considered making repro Cave boxes to 'assist' with this, and make a bit of cash on the side.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:24 am

PCB newbie question: Do they still produce Ketsui? How long do PCBs get produced? As long as people are buying them? Well, I guess not because they don`t simply burn CDs like console games but have to produce the according chips and the like. Or what? I have no clue.

And I thought the emulation progress of Ketsui has been stopped by Cave, thought I might recall that incorrectly.

Post by **system11** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:51 am

FrederikJurk wrote:PCB newbie question: Do they still produce Ketsui? How long do PCBs get produced? As long as people are buying them? Well, I guess not because they don`t simply burn CDs like console games but have to produce the according chips and the like. Or what? I have no clue.

And I thought the emulation progress of Ketsui has been stopped by Cave, thought I might recall that incorrectly.

PCBs are just like CDs - they're done in runs to reduce unit cost. They estimate how many are needed, and have a batch made. PCBs very rarely see a second run however, due to the nature of the arcade business where new=hot. This isn't always the case of course - and it's much easier to do a run when the boards aren't unique - example cartridge based (Neo Geo, etc), or common motherboard based (PGM, which Cave have used lately).

They still need the required number of BRAND NEW sales at BRAND NEW prices to justify this however - which means selling another thousand at $2000. While collectors like to think this many would sell, the reality is far different. Outside of Japan, this forum probably has the largest collection of people likely to buy a new PCB at $2k. I'd estimate there's between 20-30 people who would actually go through with it, maybe less.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:13 pm

Err I don't think the emulation of Ketsui has been stopped by CAVE. However, I think it will still take years before anything is done.

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:17 pm

FrederikJurk wrote:PCB newbie question: Do they still produce Ketsui? How long do PCBs get produced? As long as people are buying them? Well, I guess not because they don`t simply burn CDs like console games but have to produce the according chips and the like. Or what? I have no clue.

And I thought the emulation progress of Ketsui has been stopped by Cave, thought I might recall that incorrectly.

You're thinking of DOJ, which was 'removed by request' from Mame.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:39 pm

zakk wrote:
You're thinking of DOJ, which was 'removed by request' from Mame.

Yeah, THAT was it. This makes more sense since they are selling DOJ as a console release anyway. Not making a home port of Ketsui AND requesting to remove it from mame would be bitter. So Cave fans of the world, keep reaching for the rainbow!

ill6 · Post by **ill6** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:56 pm

If (and when?) Cave stops making games the prices will decrease... Much like Neo Geo.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:02 pm

kemical · Post by **kemical** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:57 pm

zakk wrote: You're thinking of DOJ, which was 'removed by request' from Mame.

when did this happen?? I couldn't find any info about it

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:20 pm

I never saw any actual news about it, just that it was there at one point, and then it wasn't.

And by "there" I mean a black screen, because the game is like 1% dumped.

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:50 pm

Dandy J wrote:I never saw any actual news about it, just that it was there at one point, and then it wasn't.

And by "there" I mean a black screen, because the game is like 1% dumped.

They don't really 'announce' such things. But there was a post by Haze on the mame forums saying it was removed by request and will not be back soon if ever. Also there is no active work going on regarding it and the recommendation is no one else work on it either.

Again, no one hold your breath for Ketsui/doj/galuda emulation anytime soon.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:19 am

Cave game popularity has already spiked.

Doesn't mean the prices are coming down anytime soon though. People are still buying Ketsui up at 50,000+ yen for a board only. I think we'll continue to see high prices for full kits, and rare arcade artwork & promos (the high prices for these items did not start with Cave*, and will certainly not end with them) but you should be able to find the PCBs on a regular basis for a sane price.

*I've seen old, non-Cave flyers claer 20,000 yen on several occasions.