Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

I got to hang out with colour_thief today and play the Sega Mega Play arcade version of Gunstar Heroes. He wanted to watch me run the game solo, and I managed to get the 1cc! It was pretty dicey on the last level due to a totally avoidable screwup (I took like 40 damage in the section with the big glowy white balls). So, as a followup to my writeups on Gunstar Heroes, here's some infor on the Sega Mega Play version!

Very cool, marked for index! I love hearing about console-to-arcade revisions, it's such a particular niche. Nicely done on the 1CC as well.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Yeah, apparently there's not much documentation about it so we didn't play with the dip switches to see what they do. The test menu shows the dip switch settings but doesn't indicate what each position does. It's weird that there's no time limit enforced in levels like there'd be in most arcade games; we discovered this because we forgot to swap the controls from 4 way to 8 way (we'd had TGM2 and Hexion in the cab prior), and I sat around at the start of the first level while we adjusted things. :p

[BEAMLORD]

Can anybody riddle me this? Been sampling the delights of Hamster's Argos/Rygar port the last week or two amongst, other things. Had a few idle credits earlier today, and saw something I'd not seen happen before as yet.

Ran the timer out at the end of the first stage, and was hopping around dodging that massive floating demon fella. Landed on top of two of the blue headless enemies, and they turned into two little humanoids holding what looked like bowls of rice above their heads. I dunno if they were bonus items or what, because I reflexively killed the cunts on sight. No mention of them in Hamster's manual, and a cursory Google search was too heavy on the rice recipes for my purposes.

[BIL]

Ran the timer out at the end of the first stage, and was hopping around dodging that massive floating demon fella. Landed on top of two of the blue headless enemies, and they turned into two little humanoids holding what looked like bowls of rice above their heads.

Whoa! Never even heard of that one. I wonder if it might've been a particularly evocative glitch? I've seen the enemies' universal death animation (the collapsing skeleton) fire off oddly at times, particularly when bombed or stomped. I'll give it a go!

The alternative, of a secret bonus item, is also intriguing! Your description instantly made me think of good ol' Maneki Neko / Lucky Cat.

Speaking of stomps, and glitches, my perennial PSA: never attempt to stomp the vine-whip enemies (those creepy yellow dudes who march up and unfurl their arms). Their hitbox is buggered, you'll often fall straight through for a bump-death. Just cane the fuckers at safe distance.

On one hand, I'm sad they let this through, in an otherwise super-tight game. On the other, they're the solitary enemy with this issue; and with their tottering speed, it's easy to work around 'em. They're pretty uncommon, too.

I dunno if they were bonus items or what, because I reflexively killed the cunts on sight.

DROP THE RICE BOWL FUCKER (｀w´メ)

[BEAMLORD]

Here you go, BIL:

https://youtu.be/HBP2XDIbjaI

As I say, only been playing a short while, so most of what I'm seeing is new to me, anyway. Surprised to hear you've not encountered it, either Mysteries abound to this day

Doesn't look much like a glitch, though. They look like fully-fledged sprites to me. Ah, well. Someone, somewhere is gonna know.

Too bad to hear about the vine-whip guys. I'm so far finding it a flawless affair, control and contact-wise. I'll be sure to waste 'em appropriately.

EDIT: Reviewing the vid, it was a horned marauder, not a headless gorm, that I bounced on.

[BIL]

Superb documentation! Now, I can see exactly what those are Basically, it's one enemy sat atop another enemy's projectile. To be specific, a crab (walking sprite), over the bugmite things dropped by cave bats.

Lemme see if I have any GIFs... aha! Here we go:

Be merciful to all God's creatures, AKA a friendly crab teaches geometry

Spoiler

FUCKING TONGUE MY SWEATY BUNG YOU ARSEHOLE-LICKING TROGLODYTE (■｀W´■)

Spoiler

I get the feeling the enemy death animation is a little glitch-prone, albeit harmlessly so. Must use a lot of overhead, the way those skeletons go flying offscreen. Or in the case of midbosses and other large enemies, multiple skeletons, as if it's a bunch of midgets in a trenchcoat - a concept seen in their later AC Ninja Gaiden!

[BEAMLORD]

Ah, right you are, Doctor I did wonder if a rice-drop in a game with no health bar might be a little superfluous! Case closed.

[Lander]

There's a pleasing open-and-shut case Imagine the legacy of playground rumors that would have spawned back in the day! Who is this mysterious hidden ronin?

Intriguing that the glitched death actually results in interactive game objects, rather than being a purely graphical bug. Perhaps it's some sort of overflow that spawns an enemy-type object - thus accounting for the killability - but has its enemy subtype identifier pointing somewhere out-of-bounds.
Or perhaps 'enemy object' is too specific a notion, and it's spawning a general-purpose game object that just so happens to point at an invalid subtype that behaves like an enemy.

Ah, the mysteries of unsafe assembler. Perhaps someday we'll see someone pick it apart like Strider NES, and reveal the teeny tiny snare of code behind the mystery.

[BEAMLORD]

Good point, Lander. They were clearly killable. Would be interesting to see what would have happened if I'd walked into them.

[Sumez]

I imagine Rygar's code is simple enough it's gonna be pretty easy to unravel. But I doubt that's gonna just reveal a really obscure and rare bug that the devs also didn't find while making the game. If you could reproduce the bug, however, it's probably very easy to find what causes it.

Seems to me that the only bug that actually happened is that it loaded the wrong sprite for the enemy's stunned state (since you don't have the tiger power here), pointing to a place in memory with small sprites instead of big ones? The fact that it happened right before the end of the stage might be relevant. I also noticed that the guy you bopped on gets duplicated when he jumps off the flying beast, his copy carried to the left edge of the stage. So it's possible the glitch happened already there, and he was already bugged, or maybe there were just two exactly overlapping enemies flying in?
Of course, mr. fleshface's existence on the screen as it happens might be relevant as well.

[Lander]

Well yeah, anything's simple if you have properly-annotated disassembly, a minimal reproduction state to trace it with, and plenty of time

Dunno about how things were back in the arcade era, but the rule of thumb for modern QA tends to be "we saw it, WONTFIX". Even with a smaller team, it's possible that someone saw it at some point, lodged an aw shiet gotta debug that note in the back of their mind, and then forgot it in the face of looming deadlines.

Good point about the stun state; I'm not intimately familiar with Rygar's hitbox, but he appears to move through the corrupted sprite's left side between landing and attacking it, so it makes sense that it would be a single entity rather than the side-by-side pair implied by the visual.

[Udderdude]

Price check on Data East's RoboCop. Been on the fence about this one. Aside from the theme, anything good here?

Edit: While I'm at it, how about RoboCop 2?

[BryanM]

I can only speak about the first game, and I'm solidly in the camp of thinking it's monotonous. I'd even rate Altered Beast a little bit more highly.

It's not as rigid as E-Swat is, you have more freedom of movement. But you're still mostly walking right to left and left to right punching and shooting goons. There isn't anything really technical about spacing and timing. There aren't power-ups that mix up the activity you're doing or the optimal approach to the stage. You just prod along.

It's really amazing how much more stimulating things can be with alternative kill requirements. Mario not being able to just jump on a guy's head. Shinobi having to sword shield guys to death. If moving and shooting are all you can do, those have to be fast and fun on their own. Robocop is no Ghouls n' Ghosts or Battle Kid.

[BIL]

Good point about the stun state; I'm not intimately familiar with Rygar's hitbox, but he appears to move through the corrupted sprite's left side between landing and attacking it, so it makes sense that it would be a single entity rather than the side-by-side pair implied by the visual.

I blame the forum's authentically floorboard-splintering DOO/v\ \M/ETAL slowdown, earlier this week, for my forgetting the stun state entirely.

Anyhoo, further to Rygar glitches, here's another (and another from moi, a bit further down ).

Reminds me a lot of FC Ninja Gaiden. Exceptionally rugged, tight action games with a mild and mostly harmless glitchy patina. One of my favourite Rygar things is the end-stage nuking of onscreen enemies. Crowds are dashed offscreen, as if by an angry god at his chessboard. YOU FAILED ME FOR THE LAST TIME YOU FUCKS Other times, you witness TRVE+HONEST BoneStorm

[Stevens]

Hey kids. Greetings from your friend Stevens.

Steam version of Outzone - worth it? It not being the arcade release is reason enough to give pause. On the flip side it's under $10.

Thanks!

Been back to Non Grata a bit in the last week.

[Lander]

Anyhoo, further to Rygar glitches, here's another (and another from moi, a bit further down ).

Exit stage right shuffled off the stage like a speaker at Geoff Keighley's birthday!

The enemy wipe is rather on-theme for the Sword and Sorcery vibe; easy to imagine a Ming the Merciless-like figure scowling at a scrying mirror and moving to the next phase of the evil plan.

I'll have to put some proper hours into arcade Rygar; my exposure to the series has largely been Rygar-Chan's Big Adventure!! on the NES, and a brief glimpse of that apparently-alright PS2 title, but all of these glowing accolades I'm seeing for the AC's tight control are too much to ignore.

We shall have to see whether good, or EVULL, rule!

[BIL]

Everything that's mine is yours to have! (・｀w´・)

Food, drink...（＾w´ ）

( ・｀w｀・)>⌐■-■

(■｀w´■)

Women (■｀w´■)

On that note, I proffer Conquest - a TRVE+HONEST Famicom ARPG movie, ala Ninja Scroll's Alien Soldier/MGS boss rush. Plenty o' cheese, of course, and barbaric AF - but I was surprised at its brutish thoughtfulness! Cracking good fun.

[Lander]

Had a dabble in some Rygar, bumming around the first 6 or so zones trying to figure out how to work the Diskarmor.

What a mysterious device. Didn't take too long to figure out that you can redirect the upper swing with some careful wiggling, but actually making good use of that is a whole other question.
It's super weird how much it changes with each powerup, relative to how unpredictable the drops are (and how they always happen just before UWAAA ); the different behaviours are so distinct that it feels like you'd have to practice and get good with each one to make a robust run.

I don't see the full picture yet, but it's got something approximating that Rastan feel; simple base, with complexity layered in via mechanical facets like attack canceling, and heaps of pressure to force the player to figure things out.
Reminds me of an anecode about Out Zone, in that there are two ways to play; tactically creep forward preserving powerups and abusing the timer, or hold right screaming bloody murder! HOOOO!

Re. technicals, this game runs HOT I was expecting occasional weirdness, but it feels like the underlying systems are redlining at all times, even though that's not really a concept you can apply to fixed-clock PCB hardware.
Makes the line a bit difficult to draw when it comes to bugs and stuff; are those fireballs supposed to turn into score items on the way down, or is that a happy accident? Rough-edged, but charming for the extra chaos it adds to proceedings.

WTB: Rygar GBA reimagining with more yo-yo tricks.

On that note, I proffer Conquest - a TRVE+HONEST Famicom ARPG movie, ala Ninja Scroll's Alien Soldier/MGS boss rush. Plenty o' cheese, of course, and barbaric AF - but I was surprised at its brutish thoughtfulness! Cracking good fun.

Ooh, I think that one's been circling my periphery for a while - something about being a fascinating movie with a lot of strange soft visual focus. Might have been something else, but it looks great - onto the list it goes!

[BIL]

Yeah I think the Podoboo/point item thing is deliberate; seems like you're meant to apex your (set-height) jump perfectly to nab 'em, without doing a header straight into molten death. On the flip side, if you're banking on bouncing off one, and it turns into a point item, that too might be a source of fiery doom.

[Lander]

They do feel deliberate in the gameplay sense, but I still wonder whether that stems from the design document, or an after-the-fact yeah it just kind of does that

And here's a riddle: I booted up NES Rygar to jog my memory and... This isn't the Rygar-Chan's Big Adventure!! that I remember at all!
(Neat Metal Gear-y overworld though. And the hotrod feel is still somewhat present )

The game I played started off with sidescrolling action, but had a Mario 3 overworld map with a Yamcha-looking mugshot in the corner for dialogue. I could have sworn it was a similarly heroic-themed Arcade -> NES reimagining, but maybe not?
Might have been named after a place, now I'm ruminating on it... Like Attack on Dangerous Pass or something. Hmm.

[BIL]

Oh yeah, they definitely had serendipitous form elsewhere; cf Ninja Gaiden's celebrated Boss Rush Knockback™, the glitch responsible for this entire thread. (subsequently canonised in NG2+3, for maximum noob satisfaction and/or hellish torment ) While they had separate home and arcade divisions, I also can't help noticing a shared fondness for that rainbow palette-cycling effect, first seen (to my knowledge) in Swimmer, and refined throughout Bomb Jack, Rygar, Solomon's Key, Gemini Wing, the FC Ninja Gaiden trilogy, and probably more I'm forgetting, offhand. It's a detail I associate with Tecmo, as much as I do Namco and Taito's respective hi-score HUDs and fonts.

I find it tricky to tell with Rygar, at times. There's so much fine-brush detailing in its mechanics, and often its audiovisual design. The flying gargoyles, for example, whose transformation sequence distinguishes snipers from divebombers. It's the measured generosity I treasure in arcade games; a sense that behind all the harrowing peril, the designers are rooting for you. The Game Over screen's "Can you accept further challenges?" isn't just for show; you're done after three credits, but if you make 'em count, you'll find plenty of footholds.

Paired with the generous firepower and mobility, it's such a stark difference from mean-spirited affairs like Akumajou Dracula AC. A game I feel bad using as my designated whipping boy (rebadged, unfinished), but it's just too handy.

"I'm sorry, Mr. Birb, it's just not going to work out for us." "WAWW! WAWW!" "OH FUCK YOU"

Spoiler

The game you mention sounds like Dengeki Big Bang, aka Clash At Demonhead; super cool! AFAIK, it was a console-original production; quite unique at that. Most of the sidescrolling Famicom ARPGs I know favour sword & sorcery over sci-fi. A bit breezy by hardcore run/gun standards, but then, breezy is exactly what it goes for. Solid chassis, immense personality! The good doctor hails from thereabouts.

Hey kids. Greetings from your friend Stevens.

Steam version of Outzone - worth it? It not being the arcade release is reason enough to give pause. On the flip side it's under $10.

Thanks!

Been back to Non Grata a bit in the last week.

I know Steven (this dude ;3 ) will give the game itself 11/10, as will many other trusted peeps; and I'll say much the same, albeit being only a dabbler. But it seems the Steam version's audio took a hit; not good for any game, especially a Toaplan one. 3;

[Steven]

Out Zone's perfection should have been impossible for humans to create, but somehow they managed to make it that way anyway. Its excellence is beyond comparison, and it's almost certainly the greatest game Toaplan ever made, although Hishouzame and Slap Fight are very close.

PC release on GOG and Steam is highly not recommended, though; it has broken audio and you get a selection between 2 prototype/early ROMs, one of which is missing almost all of the game's many cool features, scoring techniques, and references to past Toaplan games, and the most likely Europe-exclusive hard ROM but not the regular/normal ROM. Save your money, buy the PCB, and be in Tokyo on the 23rd of February so you can get your PCB signed by Uemura-san at his live in Numabukuro on that day.

[Sumez]

I finally set some time aside to play the PC Engine version of Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu.



A couple of years ago I deemed the NES/FC version one of the most unfairly overlooked action games on the platform, and an ideal marriage of precision melee attacks with fun platforming and a constantly rapid pace, lacking only an incentive to actually go fast.

I always believed the PCE version wasn't as good. Maybe just a weak excuse to dodge the notably higher price point? At least I'm not sure where I picked that up, because its easily just as great!

It's really interesting that although the games share their mechanics and most of the locales and setpieces throughout the game, the actual level design is completely different, making them very different yet similar games. The controls aren't 1:1 either, with only the PCE game for example featuring damage knockback.
The PCE version was clearly the "master" version, with a lot of the shared elements featuring much more details and creative ideas in this version, the boss fights especially. It easily wins out on aesthetics as well as a few additional bits and even minibosses not present at all on NES. The NES game is extremely impressive for the platform, but the PCE one just looks like a million.

I think I still prefer the NES game, because its brilliant sense of pace isn't quite as present on PCE. especially evident in the section with floating platforms. But the games really are nearly equal, and different enough that both are worth playing. In fact I encourage everyone to play both, they are really great. The PCE game also feels a bit more challenging, but neither version is arcade hard, unfortunately.

[Stevens]

PC release on GOG and Steam is highly not recommended

All I needed. Thanks!

[Lander]

I find it tricky to tell with Rygar, at times. There's so much fine-brush detailing in its mechanics, and often its audiovisual design. The flying gargoyles, for example, whose transformation sequence distinguishes snipers from divebombers. It's the measured generosity I treasure in arcade games; a sense that behind all the harrowing peril, the designers are rooting for you. The Game Over screen's "Can you accept further challenges?" isn't just for show; you're done after three credits, but if you make 'em count, you'll find plenty of footholds.

Oh, nifty - I'd clocked the explosion animation as different, but not joined the dots with varying behaviour. That's way less scary than having to fit a last minute delayed air swing in between the swoop startup and your reaction time!

The enemy pressure reminds me a bit of Shadow of the Beast; intimidating and relentless, but ultimately a set of relatively fair think-fast checks that can be queued up and executed on, or noped with precise movement. A lesser game would flood the screen endlessly as soon as the sprites were available, but here there's a tangible rhythm to the killin'.
Though there are moments where a controllable two-to-three-enemy composition is suddenly a stampede; haven't learned to deal with that yet, but I assume the solution is to know when to fold 'em and bounce to safety, or be a disc god and perfectly nail the LRLRLLLRRRLRL attack sequence necessary to be last man standing

The game you mention sounds like Dengeki Big Bang, aka Clash At Demonhead; super cool! AFAIK, it was a console-original production; quite unique at that. Most of the sidescrolling Famicom ARPGs I know favour sword & sorcery over sci-fi. A bit breezy by hardcore run/gun standards, but then, breezy is exactly what it goes for. Solid chassis, immense personality! The good doctor hails from thereabouts.

Yeah, that's the one! Pretty far off the mark from FamiRygar's stoic presentation, I'll have to put my longform conflation down to the all yall heroes look alike factor

A truly pornstache-tastic localization; the first screen's instant warzone of lingering explosion hitboxes and tactical crouching sets a tone that's put in question almost immediately ( Fight! On! Fight! On! Fight! On!) and tipped off the table entirely as soon as TALKING TIME shows up!
Enough to raise question whether the JP original was a more self-serious affair that got a (lovingly-done, in retrospect) 4Kids treatment, but the further in I get, the more it looks like one of those fun Meijin-era gaming manga in playable form.

And something about it gives me Master System vibes - a half-remembered melange of Alex Kidd tilesets and Fantasy Zone shops. Likely coloured by warm and fuzzy nostalgia, I'd have been bloody chuffed to have this if I'd been a NES kid!

[BIL]

I finally set some time aside to play the PC Engine version of Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu.

Great post, marked for index. I've never tried out the PCE one, good to hear it's a worthy companion.

Oh, nifty - I'd clocked the explosion animation as different, but not joined the dots with varying behaviour. That's way less scary than having to fit a last minute delayed air swing in between the swoop startup and your reaction time!

The enemy pressure reminds me a bit of Shadow of the Beast; intimidating and relentless, but ultimately a set of relatively fair think-fast checks that can be queued up and executed on, or noped with precise movement. A lesser game would flood the screen endlessly as soon as the sprites were available, but here there's a tangible rhythm to the killin'.

Precisely! Despite the bubbling visual intensity, it's a distinctly methodical game. Enemies are deterministic, balanced for ranged dispatch or, failing that, deft sidestep. Of course, types overlap, creating novel challenge and juggling pressure. Even then, learned tactical principle will serve you better than unalloyed twitch.

At its most basic, you have to keep your vicinity clear; well-served by the rapid attack and 1HP rushers. Round 4 is an early trial by fire; a flatland stampede, leavened by sparse air support. Whack varmints before they can amass into a chitinous torrent! Exploit their lengthy, harmless eruption sequence!

You can bounce if u want to! BUT SHOULD U (｀w´メ) (◎w◎;)

It's Dracula on JAMMA, pretty much. Incidentally, when that goober review and its Ninja Gaiden followup describing it as "mindless" were posted here, all I could think of was AVGN's Castlevania bit, re: the supposed wild melee of Death's obliging door staff.

Red his, Green mine

Same design principles ignored in both cases! As expected, with both the games and reviewers being of similar respective stocks. Plonkers aint use they feckin loafs m8! quoth Iuchi: Feel Invisible Matter

Enough to raise question whether the JP original was a more self-serious affair that got a (lovingly-done, in retrospect) 4Kids treatment, but the further in I get, the more it looks like one of those fun Meijin-era gaming manga in playable form.

Yeah the FC boxart definitely has that vibe; not unlike Hachamecha Daishingeki's cute n' cuddly take, incidentally!

Dengeki no Daishingeki

Although the latter is ofc more stonefacedly \M/ANFUL than its AC progenitor - no gamely Beastman Jenga sessions here, boyo! Mind the dread BEARTURTLE Tecmo's AC staff seemed like fun dudes; see also the irrepressible mirth of AC Ninja Gaiden, vs the FC's textbook Fiery Shonen™. (I headcanon FC as a movie, and AC a whimsical vacation the stuntmen - actual ninjas - enjoyed on days off )

And something about it gives me Master System vibes - a half-remembered melange of Alex Kidd tilesets and Fantasy Zone shops. Likely coloured by warm and fuzzy nostalgia, I'd have been bloody chuffed to have this if I'd been a NES kid!

Now you mention it, I wonder if Dengeki shared any personnel with Psycho Fox, or its Famicom cousins. Such adorable sprites! Vic Tokai seem a hard company to nail down, with their supposedly being more of a publishing house. At any rate, this interview with Battle Mania's director, Takayan, is marvelous fun. Chiefly about those STGs, but he notes a whole grab bag of goodies, including Dengeki. "So when I told them I wanted to make a sequel they said “No”, I asked why and they replied “Just no”.

[BryanM]

That reminds me of a Castlevania challenge hack I enjoyed back in the day, Overflow Darkness. I never got around to editing it for infinite lives, so never finished it....

Sometimes I feel like having to resort to such things to feel stimulation is analogous to stabbing myself in the thigh with a knife over and over. Sometimes I feel like upgrading my DoDonpachi skills, and therefore general video gayming skills, up to a tier above total scrub was the worst mistake of my life. I still remember the moment going from where the level 2 midboss went from a challenge to a solved problem. You can't come back from that.

Ah, I envy the normies.

Should probably get around to Battle Kid 2, before I get hit by a truck or something.

[Lander]

Dunked some more hours into Dengeki Big Bang, and got to the point where the economy takes off. Pleasant thus far; the combo of TALK TIME codec calls, oddball bosses, and long-form figure out how to go here and do this structure has a faint air of Metal Gear Kids about it

I was a little dubious of the 'metroidvania minus most of the progression' design at first - being that progression is a genre staple - but it's actually quite refreshing to have a set of readily available Wario Land-ish powersuits to fill in traversal alongside more specialized key items. And a pleasant surprise upon meeting the hermit as well - wasn't expecting a magic submenu!

Speaking of, I love how magic is handled conceptually. Need to up your wizard game? Ignore the shopkeeper's responsible three-per-customer limit on energy drinks, and get TURNT until you begin to spontaneously levitate, regenerate, and master Kung Fu.
Red Bull really does give you wings

[Steven]

GOG is giving away this game Lost Ruins for free. I don't know anything about it, but I'm not going to turn down free games that don't have DRM. I'll check it out eventually™ once I get some time.

I played AM2R for the first time in a long time today just to see if it works on the Steam Deck (it does, and quite gloriously aside from a specific boss fight that has some extremely curious and extremely bad framerate drops to 40 FPS, which should absolutely not be happening given the Steam Deck's roughly PS4 level hardware) and it was just as good as it was the last time I played it and you should play it too. I have always had mixed feelings about all of the changes to the game that have been made after the release of 1.1, but this is how the newest version of the game is and I played it again with the randomizer, which is a lot of fun and can be a decent test of your wall jumping and bomb jumping skills... unless it gives you the Space Jump as the very first item, which happened to me today. Never found the Spider Ball at all this time.

Now that I finally have a screen that goes higher than 60hz I have been testing all sorts of games to see if they can go higher than that, but AM2R does not support refresh rates above 60hz, which is disappointing, but considering that it started development in 2006 or so, it's not wholly unexpected.

[Sima Tuna]

Has anyone tried Kemono Heroes? It's on sale on the eshop and it looks kinda arcade-like. I can look up reviews, but well, we have a review thread specifically to point out the shortcomings of those. I'd be more interested in what people here have to say about it.