RetroTink 4K All But Officially Announced ....

[tongshadow]

New MLiG video showing what the RetroTINK 4K is capable of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMkimgEwWXs

At 5m37s, Coury confirming what I said days ago... that HDR is capable of offsetting the brightness penalty of masks/BFI to match a CRT, despite what doubters were saying.
At 13m0s, Try clearly shows that sharp 720p upscale is better than what TVs do, despite some people here saying that using the TV's sharpness settings produces equal results, and also that said blurry upscaling adds "detail" to the picture.

Very good video overall, the TINK4K is clearly very capable.

[Guspaz]

I'd caution that the ability to compensate fully for the brightness loss depends on the TV and its HDR brightness capabilities. In many cases, you may be able to compensate for the brightness loss from BFI or masks, but not both at the same time. Though even with both at the same time, HDR will still let you limit the brightness loss.

[EnragedWhale]

Just watching the MLiG video now.

Analogue DAC spoofing to enable 240p at original the console refresh out of the Super NT, Mega SG is cool as hell. Although I hadn’t considered the implications of sending such signals through HDMI switches and AVR’s. Sounds like the pre scale options work just as well and will be way easier to deal with.

[bobrocks95]

At 13m0s, Try clearly shows that sharp 720p upscale is better than what TVs do, despite some people here saying that using the TV's sharpness settings produces equal results, and also that said blurry upscaling adds "detail" to the picture.

I don't recall anyone saying that one here. Definitely a weird take (though some prefer a softer look for early 3D sources which I get vs the cutting your eyeballs jaggies that I like).

Just watching the MLiG video now.

Analogue DAC spoofing to enable 240p at original the console refresh out of the Super NT, Mega SG is cool as hell. Although I hadn’t considered the implications of sending such signals through HDMI switches and AVR’s. Sounds like the pre scale options work just as well and will be way easier to deal with.

PixelFX has that cracked on the Morph as well. No clue why Analogue even bothered trying to encrypt it, not like they have the DAC in stock most of the time anyways. People who need one would still get one most likely.

[EnragedWhale]

PixelFX has that cracked on the Morph as well. No clue why Analogue even bothered trying to encrypt it, not like they have the DAC in stock most of the time anyways. People who need one would still get one most likely.

I imagine it was just setup like that to be idiot proof so you couldn’t set a resolution that was potentially incompatible with your TV?

Don’t the retro gems have a direct mode? I guess that won’t pass through HDMI switches or AVR’s easily either.

[Josh128]

New MLiG video showing what the RetroTINK 4K is capable of:

At 13m0s, Try clearly shows that sharp 720p upscale is better than what TVs do, despite some people here saying that using the TV's sharpness settings produces equal results, and also that said blurry upscaling adds "detail" to the picture.

He notes that the image on the left is a "simulated" TV upscale, ie, fake. Its not an actual TV upscaling anything, rather, its just some generic bilinear scaling he applied, which he doesnt go into any detail as to how he acheieved it, other than admitting its not an actual TV doing it, lol -- its inadmissible evidence, not sure why they even bothered showed that. Actual results will definitely vary from TV to TV and options selected.

[Guspaz]

No clue why Analogue even bothered trying to encrypt it, not like they have the DAC in stock most of the time anyways.

Did they, though?

[bobrocks95]

No clue why Analogue even bothered trying to encrypt it, not like they have the DAC in stock most of the time anyways.

Did they, though?

It sends weird configuration "data packets" over video to change settings, and has some kind of "pixel encryption"

[Guspaz]

It doesn't do any encryption whatsoever (it's bog standard HDMI video with a rather high pixel repetition factor), and the "weird configuration data packets" are just some coloured dots above the image that you can just ignore since none of it is relevant for digital processing. It also uses the exact same HDMI receiver that both the RT4K and Morph 4K do.

[tongshadow]

New MLiG video showing what the RetroTINK 4K is capable of:

At 13m0s, Try clearly shows that sharp 720p upscale is better than what TVs do, despite some people here saying that using the TV's sharpness settings produces equal results, and also that said blurry upscaling adds "detail" to the picture.

He notes that the image on the left is a "simulated" TV upscale, ie, fake. Its not an actual TV upscaling anything, rather, its just some generic bilinear scaling he applied, which he doesnt go into any detail as to how he acheieved it, other than admitting its not an actual TV doing it, lol -- its inadmissible evidence, not sure why they even bothered showed that. Actual results will definitely vary from TV to TV and options selected.

Later he reiterates that's how his C1 looks, and looking at how my C2 treats 720p it's a very accurate deciption, it's very obvious on 2d pixel games. 1080p, however, actually scales decently enough to not warrant a dedicated scaler.
The only flat displays that I know of that sharp upscale are some Panasonic/Sony models and pro monitors.

[bobrocks95]

It doesn't do any encryption whatsoever (it's bog standard HDMI video with a rather high pixel repetition factor), and the "weird configuration data packets" are just some coloured dots above the image that you can just ignore since none of it is relevant for digital processing. It also uses the exact same HDMI receiver that both the RT4K and Morph 4K do.

Woozle said differently... I suppose technically this is all encryption on the SuperNT/MegaSG instead of the DAC if that's your argument. In some fashion something needs to be done to tell them "you are plugged into an Analogue DAC, change output modes"

[Guspaz]

You give it a matching EDID and it gives you unencrypted video. There’s no special protection, no secret sauce, so I don’t know what Woozle is referring to. Nobody had to break any encryption or reverse engineer anything to implement Analogue DAC emulation, you just have to clone the DAC's EDID. You can probably replicate this using a basic EDID spoofer like a dr HDMI.

[768peeistrash]

Can't believe the ordering time frame is so close now..

[Josh128]

Welp, today is the day, exactly 8 hours away!! Im sure its going to be an F5 refresh browser nightmare for those trying to get one, lol. Mike has not shared number of units available at launch or even given a rough % comparison vs what the 5x launched at, but since the 5x sold out in literally a few minutes, unless its significantly more, I'd expect the same here. I managed to get a 5X at launch, had to refresh browser a few times but the order number I got indicated that I was one of the last to get my order in/was lucky that it went through.

So who here is "attempting" to snag one today? Perhaps the price tag will make it easier to get one, but I kind of doubt it. I personally will not be attempting, but wish Mike the very best on a successful launch and look forward to the posts and impressions and photos that will be posted once they are out in the wild. Should be fun.

[fernan1234]

RetroTink 4K All But Officially Launched ....

Who knows if/how fast it will sell out. Mike noted on Discord things may get ugly in terms of many people trying to get orders in at the same time based on the number of email notification signups, but not necessarily suggesting stock will not be enough to remain available past launch day.

[tongshadow]

Wiki page is now available.
https://consolemods.org/wiki/AV:RetroTINK-4K
I like how strobe length on BFI can be adjusted on 240hz displays.

[RebeL9]

It’s so cool with so many profiles for so many console.
However I would love to see a profile for Nintendo DS games on Wii U. I know there are profiles for GBA on Gamecube but wish someone did one for DS as well!

[orange808]

Mike shit the bed on the launch.

[Guspaz]

The site is slammed as literally thousands of people are hammering the site trying to buy them. I’m not sure anybody expected them to sell so many so fast.

[Ricdeau]

Got a sold out message now. I got a payment screen once, but failed to process payment. Never made it back.

[orange808]

This site is a place for truth tellers. I support the site and will gladly do so again if system11 needs help.

So, don't gaslight me. If you can't handle the traffic, a professional makes an alternative plan around a mailing list to avoid this.

Mike shit the bed. Big time.

[Guspaz]

Mike isn’t hosting the site out of his garage. It’s Wix, there was no reason to expect that a major multi-billion dollar host wouldn’t be able to handle it. Besides, there were a certain number available and they all sold out. No matter what, the same number of people would have bought them and everybody else would have been disappointed. There are more batches on the way.

[strygo]

It is too bad he didn’t use Shopify. Their queue is annoying, but it’s much more deterministic.

I managed to get one about 15 minutes in, but feel bad for anyone who didn’t after struggling with the site for 30 minutes.

[bobrocks95]

I haven't heard great things about Wix in general and it's obvious that he vastly underestimated demand here. I got one in just under the wire after 25 minutes of refreshing, multiple sessions in different windows, and several dozen tabs on rotation. Basically like trying to get an RTX 3080 around launch, which if I hadn't have done I wouldn't have known to try so hard here.

Batch 2 being in January is nice though and I'm glad he went ahead and got the next run going early. It's probably also going to be a disaster though if he doesn't upgrade his web hosting in some manner.

Wouldn't fault Mike as this is quite a niche product, as much hype as there might have been, but I am tired of larger companies having terrible launches and always saying they underestimated demand. It's software, they should create an absolute worst-case scenario for the amount of traffic they think they'll get, and then double or triple that number to be safe. You will never hear anyone saying "Oh wow we really splurged on hosting, didn't need to upscale that much".

[SavagePencil]

We put a lot on Mike to deliver features. I hope that he can get enough profit on this that it turns into “Mike and his team” to deliver more stuff.

[orange808]

I was on for thirty minutes from the beginning. Mike shit the bed.

If that upsets you, ask the mods if you can get the AtariAge Tommy Tallerico special status, Guspaz.

See you around, cause it ain't happening.

Nice job blaming the customers. Nice job blaming demand, which is blaming the customers.

Tone deaf as always, Guspaz. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ Mike needs a spokesperson that isn't tone deaf. Maybe someone that doesn't blame the problems with running a business on the customers?

[Josh128]

lol I knew it. There was way too much hype around the entire community, and beyond (capture crowd, videophile crowd, etc) for it not to have been. Its easy to say "Mike shit the bed" when TRILLION dollar companies like Nvidia literally do the same exact thing every hyped up launch.

Lets agree Mike shit the bed on the launch, but lets not pretend its a mystery as to why. Lets presume Mikes profit margin on these is $200 a piece, his cost is $550 (dont freak out, this is just a wild estimate)-- to get 2500 of these to his home warehouse he has to fork up a cool 1.375 million and HOPE they still sell at least as strong as the 5X, despite the hefty price tag. Thats some real capital, on top of all he's spent on R&D, with nary a single dollar in return until today. It sucks, but it was almost inevitable, saying that isnt gaslighting anyone, its just reality.

[copy]

A highly anticipated product sold quickly, and a web site struggled under high traffic? This equals "shitting the bed"? Seems kind of extreme.

I guess now I'll be accused of not being a truth teller.

[fernan1234]

The only bed shitting was underestimating demand, which is understandable given the "high" cost of the product (not really that high in relative terms, people are buying tons of expensive electronics in spite of being broke).

Seems like no one really has a good pulse read on demand in this scene. And for this particular product you have to include some non-trivial demand from the non-gaming video-enthusiast crowd. But even just focusing on the retro game scene, you keep seeing time after time products and even just pre-orders choking sites and selling out (and sites choke because people rush because they know there is a chance of stuff selling out). Hasn't this happened long enough to know you can overshoot your production and worst case scenario you'll end up with a bit of inventory for a while?

[Guspaz]

I was on for thirty minutes from the beginning. Mike shit the bed.

If that upsets you, ask the mods if you can get the AtariAge Tommy Tallerico special status, Guspaz.

See you around, cause it ain't happening.

Nice job blaming the customers. Nice job blaming demand, which is blaming the customers.

Tone deaf as always, Guspaz. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ Mike needs a spokesperson that isn't tone deaf. Maybe someone that doesn't blame the problems with running a business on the customers?

I’m not Mike’s spokesperson, no idea where you’re going with all the Tallarico stuff. All I said was that demand was higher than anticipated and nobody expected Wix to have trouble with the load. I really don’t know where you’re getting all this hostility from. Mike’s just one guy in his garage making products for enthusiasts, he’s not a big company or anything. There’s another batch coming very soon, people who missed out this time won’t have to wait long.