Mag-Stiks, Suzos, JLFs, oh my!

[Damocles]

After going on a hiatus for nearly a year, I've decided to get back into playing with a stick. The Happ Comp that I have used to suit me quite well. However, nowadays it seems like there's just too much throw to suit me. It could be because I'm not used to sticks any more, or it could be that the micros are worn. Who knows.

Anyway, I was considering picking up either a Sanwa or Seimitsu stick, but absolutely hate ball-tops. As such, is there any way to use bat-style handles on any of these sticks? Even so far as to replace the shaft with a Comp or Super shaft?

[destructor]

You can separate buy battops for Sanwa or Seimitsu sticks.
If you want play on shmups I prefer Happ P360. Sanwa has too long throw for shmups.
I didn't test Seimitsu.
http://www.akihabarashop.com/catalog/sanwa-LB30N.jpg
http://www.akihabarashop.com/products.html

[oxtsu]

Anyway, I was considering picking up either a Sanwa or Seimitsu stick, but absolutely hate ball-tops. As such, is there any way to use bat-style handles on any of these sticks?

You'll want Sanwa's LB-30N top. Here they are installed on Seimitsu LS-55-01 and Sanwa JLF-TP-8YT.

[Ganelon]

Do JP players themselves actually buy these tops?
Do any top JP players prefer using bat/teardrop style sticks?

[oxtsu]

There is a very small percentage of Japanese players that use them, yes. Personally, I've only seen them used in the individual setting (casual/curious player), never an arcade in Japan. Most of the LB30N tops that Sanwa produces are destined for international markets (Middle East, Australia, Europe, etc).

[thchardcore]

As someone who has done 4 sanwa/jlf agetec mods I must advise against these bat tops. Even personal preference aside, they just feel like shit - the sanwa spring is too loose and while the throw is technically unchanged the overall height is, leading to a very uncomfortable stick that sits very high. Almost useless for fighters (I would rather use a pad - and I haven't played a round of 3rd strike or ST on anything but a stick for the last 5 years) and downright shit for shmups. Please just get used to using a square gate jlf, they are the best value for japanese sticks (VGO 12.50) and while they might not stack up to seimitsu to some, I have to state that I am biased towards micro based sticks over lever actuated.

[Eps]

Anyway, I was considering picking up either a Sanwa or Seimitsu stick, but absolutely hate ball-tops. As such, is there any way to use bat-style handles on any of these sticks? Even so far as to replace the shaft with a Comp or Super shaft?

Man, I guess that shows up a cultural difference between different parts of the world, and all that jazz: to me, ball-tops are arcade sticks.

[bigbadboaz]

I'm going to second what thchardcore said - I think you will be sorely disappointed with a bat-top Sanwa. The spring on these sticks is so light that the added leverage from the battop makes the stick feel loose, insubstantial and sloppy. The lengthened throw won't be that much shorter than your Comp's, either. Now, I haven't tried a bat-top on a Seimitsu, but the sticks are similar enough that I would imagine you'd get a similar result.

If you're dead sat on a bat-top, maybe look for something different entirely. I have heard great things about the new Ultimarc Mag-Stiks - one specific being that they have quite a short throw.

[Shatterhand]

Anyway, I was considering picking up either a Sanwa or Seimitsu stick, but absolutely hate ball-tops. As such, is there any way to use bat-style handles on any of these sticks? Even so far as to replace the shaft with a Comp or Super shaft?

Man, I guess that shows up a cultural difference between different parts of the world, and all that jazz: to me, ball-tops are arcade sticks.

In the other hand, I think I have never seen an arcade game with a Balltop here. I was lucky to play in a home neo-geo system, and in a couple of imported arcade controllers, and I really feel the Ball top is eons better than anything else.

[Damocles]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Based on your comments, I'm now scouting around for info on those Mag sticks.

I suppose using a ball-top wouldn't be such a problem for me, except that it won't be going on a cab where I was above the CP. It will be going on a laptop unit that I use on my computer. As such, a balltop is a pain in the ass for me to hold.

[bigbadboaz]

Keep us posted on what you do. I'd really like to try those Mag-Stiks out, but I have more than enough joysticks on hand already.

It sounds like you have always held balltops wine-glass style? Personally, I hold them the same way I would a bat, from above/the side. I actually find the smaller size makes it easier to grip them this way than a bat.

[Damocles]

Alright, after poking my head around, it seems like Mag Stiks might be in the works. After screwing around with my Comp, my problem seems to be a combination of throw and travel after engaging the microswitch. Mag Stiks seem to deal with this.

I'm only worried about two things. 1.) Making a new mounting plate. At home it wouldn't be a problem, but since I'm 1000 miles away....well....you know. 2.) I dislike actuators. I hated them on my Super, and I still hate them.

In a previous post, destructor mentioned the Happ 360. Checking it out, it seems to solve my microswitch issue but I"m still concerned about travel after reading that a direction should be engaged.

In short, I'm looking for the closest thing to a Comp with decreased throw and decreased travel after engaging the microswitch.


.......yeah.....i could have saved a lot of space if I would have laid that out earlier.

[Damocles]

Ok, so I picked up a Mag-Stick from Ultimarc. Good stuff.

First off, it's pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Short throw. Small travel. Bat-top.

It took a while to get used to the motions though. When I first started using it, I found myself frequently moving up-left when i wanted to go directly left. This was corrected once I became familiar with the motion. I also had a tendency to slam the stick around, once again because I was not used to the short throw. Not complaints, just observations.

I'm a little concerned about using a magnet for centering rather than a spring, but time will tell how that works out.

Overall, damn good for shooters, crap for fighters. At least in my case.

[system11]

Bit late for this now, and only suitable for metal panels. The STC Universal would probably have been perfect for you.

http://www.arcadeshop.de/images/arcade- ... -black.jpg

In the mid-late 80s and early 90s, it was hard to find a game in the UK that /didn't/ have them. It's only now with the benefit of trying so many others out, that I realise we got lucky.

[destructor]

I have T-Stik, throw identical as Mag-Stik. And yes, sometimes I made mistakes, instead left I go to left-up or left-down. It is because stick has very short throw. Otherwise you can learn how to play perfectly on MagStik. But my choice was buying another stick with a bit longer throw and moded actuator for faster engage and with no switches - P360.
For shooters don't use joysticks with switches - slow reaction and not accurate.

[Damocles]

Quick question. I've noticed that Sanwas use a singular pcb that has all four micros on it, and terminates at a singular point. How would you wire that puppy up? I only have experience with quick disconnects on the MS itself.

[bigbadboaz]

The Sanwa PCB has a 5-pin connector - one ground and pins for each of the four switches. You can solder directly to the pins if necessary, but Sanwa produces a wire harness which snaps directly on to the connector for an easy, one-step install. The Seimitsu -01/-02 joysticks use the same connector, and Seimitsu seems to include the wire harness with the sticks rather than charging extra for it.

[Damocles]

I have T-Stik, throw identical as Mag-Stik. And yes, sometimes I made mistakes, instead left I go to left-up or left-down. It is because stick has very short throw. Otherwise you can learn how to play perfectly on MagStik. But my choice was buying another stick with a bit longer throw and moded actuator for faster engage and with no switches - P360.
For shooters don't use joysticks with switches - slow reaction and not accurate.

You wouldn't happen to know where to get a new/relatively new T-Stik nowadays, would you? After testing, I've figured out what bugs me the most about the Mag Stik. In a normal spring-centering stick, you have a constant, fluid motion from center to extremeties. With the Mag Stik, every movement is stiff. Precise, but stiff. I love the action of the stick, but hate the motion. ...if that makes sense.

[destructor]

I see arcadeshop.de has T-Stik in catalogue:
http://www.arcadeshop.de/product_info.p ... cts_id=354

Remember that T-Stik is hardest than MagStik, default microswitches are very hard. You must change them to LightAction as was on Ultimarc. I have T-Stik with LightActions otherwise.

Maybe first tell me for what games you want stick? Fighter/BeatemUp/Shooters/Racing/old4-way/....?

[Damocles]

Only shooters. For everything else I have a Comp. First off, though. Am I correct in supposing that the action on a T-Stik is smooth, as in any other spring-operated stick?

[destructor]

It's hard to say smooth. If you want stick for shooters (airshooters especially) then T-Stik is wrong because his spring is too hard and you must use too much strenght to move stick = not precisely moves, more concentration on stick than on game (I finished Cyvern on T-Stik before P360 I install, it was not easy).
My friend test MagStik and T-Stik on shooters, he say MagStik is better than T-Stik for shooters.
Very short throw (almost as MagStik) has Suzo Inductive joystick. It's stick without switches and my friend prefer it for shooters. For him SI is even better than P360. Hurry up, about 10 pcs these sticks is left in Suzo.
It's balltop joystick, but this balltop isn't normal balltop.
http://www.suzo.com/suzo/product.asp?nP=4544
Only 32mm balltops left. 38mm are out of stock.

And remember: for shooters don't use joystick with switches.

[Eps]

And remember: for shooters don't use joystick with switches.

I should think that while there are still Japanese players, using microswitched sticks on arcade cabinets, who are setting score records that the likes of us on here can only dream of, there is a fair bit of mileage left in the trusty microswitch for shooting games.

[destructor]

Yes, japanese players using microswitch joysticks because they knows Sanwa and Seimitsu only. They made excellent scores on shooters with these sticks. But give to them optical or inductive joystick and they will made 2x better scores

[system11]

Actually I think switched sticks are far better. There's no ambiguity - it clicks, you know it's clicked, you can feel it.

[destructor]

Actually I think switched sticks are far better. There's no ambiguity - it clicks, you know it's clicked, you can feel it.

You think or you test different joysticks?
I test.
'Clicks' are better than 'noclicks' in fighters/beatemups because must be click when you made special move (ex. f,f,b1), 'noclicks' are useles You don't know if you made first 'f' or second 'f' because you don't hear and feel click.
In shooter you must made smooth, very smooth and precision moves, with clicks it is impossible because switches have too long reaction.
I know no one person who say 'switches are the best' and next after try optical joystick they never use switch joystick for shooters.

[system11]

Actually I think switched sticks are far better. There's no ambiguity - it clicks, you know it's clicked, you can feel it.

You think or you test different joysticks?

Not used an optical joystick on an arcade machine, no. However, the concept is similar to .. a leaf spring. Yes, really. Leaf springs also have a zero reaction time when the activation point is reached, and can be set as sensitive as you prefer. I still prefer switches for games requiring any accurate micro movement. I quick-tap a stick to edge left or right, it's easy. With a stick that provides no physical feedback between on and off this is still possible, but it's not as easy to repeat accurately.

For fighting games, leaf switches are also useless However, unlike an optical, they are also significantly cheaper.

[destructor]

In optical joystick you can modify actuator for faster/slower reaction. In my moded P360 I don't must move stick for move my ship on screen, I must only touch stick and my ship move. Otherwise you can use larger actuator for joystick with switches but then you reduce throw. The same with leafswitches, you reduce throw too if use larger actuator. In optical you can manipulate actuator and joystick throw doesn't change, is still the same. Maybe in free time I prepare some pics for it.
In new generation joystick - UltraStik - you don't must change actuator even. Engage is controled by software.

And what is more important for shooter's joystick -> restrictor plate. It should be circle or octagonal.
MagStik has square.

[oxtsu]

Oh damn...I think I see the appearance of another Recap here, sticks version Euro. - DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER. There's hardly a difference between microswitches and optical where the HUMAN is concerned, but still micros are best. Your joystick technique sucks...deal with that, instead crying about it with false claims. You can break shit down to 1s and 0s all you like...reality doesn't change.

[destructor]

but still micros are best

Not for shooters
Try P360 with changed stick, ball and spring from Sanwa and smaller actuator then you will can say more

Don't worry about my joystick techinques. Search internet for me

[oxtsu]

-Pimp in your own mind-