Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Steven]

Horror Story is definitely one of my favourite horizontally-scrolling Toaplan games, and the scrolling is an important distinction, as the best horizontal Toaplan game is absolutely Teki-Paki. The highly underappreciated Hellfire 1P is the other major candidate.

Wardner is one of the Toaplan games that I know the least about, but I do have the information that was published in the book that came with the M2 collection. I guess Wardner's design was almost entirely Wada, and he designed all of the stages in 3D using some sort of Japanese Lego knock-off. He beat Kojima, who did the same with Metal Gear Solid, to it by almost a decade. I'd have to go check the book again for more information, but in any case, the Horror Story dev team certainly made a more varied and creative game than Wardner.

I also just now realized why Ota and Nozawa didn't do Horror Story after Wardner: they were making Daisenpuu, which released only a month before Horror Story did.

[Steven]

I am almost done with my 1CC of Horror Story B that I started last night. Just need to get past that dragon boss in the short hallway (not the Wardner attack pattern one, the one when you first enter the castle) and then I should be good. The Metroids aren't so bad here as they are in the other version, where they are extremely dangerous. I made it to the Metroids on A on one credit when Zero Fire first released, but that's as far as I got in that version, so it's nice to finally get past them, even if it's in another version.

Should have the 1CC soon enough. I keep dying to dumb shit, like missing a jump and falling into water or standing too close to the left side of the screen when a weapon change item appears and it gives me some bad weapon like the cutter or the missile and then not having the weapon I want for the right section.

So, PC Engine Horror Story. I still am not sure what to think of this game, but I definitely do not prefer the PC Engine music to the arcade music at all. It was interesting that they gave the option to play with or without checkpoints and with the game defaulting to checkpoints off. They changed the item order in the PC Engine version for some reason and it messes me up every time I play it. I also am disappointed in how ugly it looks compared to the arcade version. It's a Super CD game, so you'd think it would have been much closer to the arcade, but the colors look weird and the enemies lost a large amount of animation frames, so it almost makes the PC Engine version look like some kind of bootleg in comparison.

Edit: got the 1CC on Horror Story B. Died a few times, but it was good overall. Now to do the other version.

[Sumez]

Made it to the castle on one credit in version A so far, with a bunch of mistakes along the way that should be easy to avoid with very little practice. I guess a 1CC isn't as tough as I was dreading, though the worst part is still yet to come of course.

So it turns out I *wasn't* using external autofire, but the internal one, it's just the M2 port that labels it a bit odd. Even with that autofire though, the 3-way shot still doesn't feel nearly as powerful in version A, so I'm guessing they rebalanced things to entice using other weapons.

I got a 1UP from the bell in the graveyard once, complete with a 1UP graphic and all. Any idea what triggers it?

The Metroids aren't so bad here as they are in the other version, where they are extremely dangerous. I made it to the Metroids on A on one credit when Zero Fire first released, but that's as far as I got in that version, so it's nice to finally get past them, even if it's in another version.

I got a pretty consistent setup for the metroid in version A. Just pass under it as soon as it appears, jump on the smaller metroids it releases, and pass under to the left again as soon as you can. Repeat the process, passing under it after each time it releases its children. If you don't kill it, the tiny metroids coming in from the sides will never appear, making it much easier to reach land safely.

[Steven]

I got a 1UP from the bell in the graveyard once, complete with a 1UP graphic and all. Any idea what triggers it?

I'm trying to figure that out as well. Maybe it happens when hitting the bell pushes you over the extend score, but I don't know. I've seen it happen several times, but I don't know what causes it.

I found a super cheap way to get rid of the big Metroid in B, though; touch the big Metroid when you have a shield. You will lose your shield, but the big Metroid will die instantly. It only works in B because in A it's considered to be a boss. Might need to do some more testing with it because I shot it a few times before it ran into me and died, but it did seem to work. This is ultra cheap and costs you your shield, but it might be worth it.

[Sumez]

That trick works in A as well, and it's really easy to pull off because there's a hidden shield where you respawn.
But I find keeping it alive a lot easier than dealing with the tiny metroids that appear if you kill it.

[Sumez]

I got a 1UP from the bell in the graveyard once, complete with a 1UP graphic and all. Any idea what triggers it?

I'm trying to figure that out as well. Maybe it happens when hitting the bell pushes you over the extend score, but I don't know. I've seen it happen several times, but I don't know what causes it.

What platform are you playing on? If it happens again, can you save a recording of it? The PS4 allows quite a few minutes to be saved. I was playing on my Switch though, and the storage was already full.

I'm absolutely positive it wasn't pushing me over the extend score, I was actually quite close to reaching that shortly after. I don't think I got any points for it either, just the 1UP, but I'm not sure.
The most naive assumption is that it has something to do with the digits of your score, that's a common one. But knowing Toaplan it could be something much more obscure.

[Steven]

I'm on both PS5 and Switch, but I've been playing on Switch because it actually has the PCB autofire. PS5 lets me record an entire hour of good-quality footage, which is enough to do almost two entire playthroughs of the game, as I think it's just over 30 minutes long.

[Sumez]

Ok I figured it out. The bell will always give you a 1UP if you have 0 lives. So yeah, not really any point in trying to manipulate that XD

[Steven]

Yeah that's not worth intentionally going for lol.

Checked out the Horror Story page on the @Wiki and it says that you get bonus points for jumping on enemies that seems to depend on how many lives you have, although I'd have to test it to see how it works. It's probably just a simple enemy base point value x life stock = score formula, but it needs testing.

In any case, if you are playing for score you will want to no miss and jump on everything possible. A no miss is definitely feasible, but jumping on enemies can be very dangerous and is a good way to make sure you don't get that no miss. This is a good scoring system and I like it, although more research is required. At this point I'd very much like to do a Horror Story ST, even if it doesn't really belong, especially since I'm already working on one for Kyuukyoku Tiger.

Here is my version A anti-Metroid strategy: https://youtu.be/b4sXnPso01U

The ones that fly in from the left can't hit you if you crouch, so you can safely duck under them



Up to Europe now on A. Those dudes in the USA part that come out of the doors never stop spawning in this version, and you can't double jump over the first one. This is how I ended up barely surviving: https://youtu.be/GvpF9bCmk2U

There has to be a better way than this, right?

I also seem to have figured out the P item spawns for version A due to the custom game options in the menu. The first enemy you kill after respawning seems to always drop a P. After that, every 32nd kill will drop a P. Not sure if this is the same for B, but I think that it isn't.

[Sumez]

Checked out the Horror Story page on the @Wiki and it says that you get bonus points for jumping on enemies that seems to depend on how many lives you have, although I'd have to test it to see how it works. It's probably just a simple enemy base point value x life stock = score formula, but it needs testing.

That's not true, you get 1000 points for jumping on any enemy, no matter its base value. IMO this is the most fun part of the game, since trying to set up situations where you can bop as many guys as possible plays really well into its nature. The A version especially has a lot of enemy patterns that are clearly intentionally designed around you bopping them all in succession.

It would be an absolutely crucial element to scoring in this game, if not for the fact that it's dwarfed by the absurd score you can get from double-KO'ing the final boss.

Up to Europe now on A.

What stage is Europe?

Those dudes in the USA part that come out of the doors never stop spawning in this version, and you can't double jump over the first one. This is how I ended up barely surviving: https://youtu.be/GvpF9bCmk2U

There has to be a better way than this, right?

That is literally how I do it!
You can jump on them with a double jump though, it's easier than it seems like it would be.

I also seem to have figured out the P item spawns for version A due to the custom game options in the menu. The first enemy you kill after respawning seems to always drop a P. After that, every 32nd kill will drop a P. Not sure if this is the same for B, but I think that it isn't.

Yeah, it's much more frequent on B, dropping every 16th kill. It's easy to count since every 4th gives you the 500pt heart.

[Steven]

That's not true, you get 1000 points for jumping on any enemy, no matter its base value. IMO this is the most fun part of the game, since trying to set up situations where you can bop as many guys as possible plays really well into its nature. The A version especially has a lot of enemy patterns that are clearly intentionally designed around you bopping them all in succession.

It would be an absolutely crucial element to scoring in this game, if not for the fact that it's dwarfed by the absurd score you can get from double-KO'ing the final boss.

I see that I read it incorrectly now. I still make stupid mistakes like that on occasion...

Is it possible to kill the final boss as you jump into the pit in front of it and die? You lose control once the boss dies, but if you land the killing blow while you are in midair, you'd theoretically fall into the pit, die, and have to fight the boss again. It's such an easy fight that milking it would be no problem at all. I'll try it the next time I get there.

You can definitely milk the hell out of those helmet dudes that don't die near the end of the Europe stage, though. I did it a little on my clear, but I need to try doing it a lot on my next run.

What stage is Europe?

It's the one with the big Dracula dudes. I'm going by the track names on the OST, which are, in order,

American West
Desert
Southern islands
Japan
Ghost ship
China
Europe
Castle
Cave

This is also what I'm using to count stages over in the high score thread, but I wasn't sure what to do with American West and desert since the desert thing is only temporary. Only afterwards did I realize that the PC Engine version combines the southern islands and Japan stages, too. It probably also combines some other stages, but I haven't played the PC Engine version much yet because I don't really like it very much at all.

Those dudes in the USA part that come out of the doors never stop spawning in this version, and you can't double jump over the first one. This is how I ended up barely surviving: https://youtu.be/GvpF9bCmk2U

There has to be a better way than this, right?

That is literally how I do it!
You can jump on them with a double jump though, it's easier than it seems like it would be.

Damn, I was hoping there was a better way. Somehow I think that this is the only way to do it and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I'll check out the double jump, though. The first set is annoying, but the second set of them is fine since you can double jump over them.

I also seem to have figured out the P item spawns for version A due to the custom game options in the menu. The first enemy you kill after respawning seems to always drop a P. After that, every 32nd kill will drop a P. Not sure if this is the same for B, but I think that it isn't.

Yeah, it's much more frequent on B, dropping every 16th kill. It's easy to count since every 4th gives you the 500pt heart.

They seemed to go out of their way to make the A version harder than the B version. I'm starting to like the USA part of A, but I wish the China part had some more stuff to do in that version. It's the first stage, but I think USA B has more interesting stuff going on than China A does. The second half of American West~Desert has exactly the same stuff going on in either version outside of the significantly more dangerous boss on A, but you can speed kill him with bombs before he can do anything.

Speaking of China, I noticed the part of the roofs that you can walk on are different in the two versions, and you have to jump higher to get on top of them in B, making it harder to take the top path. Also, are the yellow jiangshi worth more points than the normal blue ones? I think they are, but I'd need to test. There are only like three or four of them, so I want to figure out if it's better to go for the yellow ones or not.

[Sumez]

Is it possible to kill the final boss as you jump into the pit in front of it and die? You lose control once the boss dies, but if you land the killing blow while you are in midair, you'd theoretically fall into the pit, die, and have to fight the boss again. It's such an easy fight that milking it would be no problem at all. I'll try it the next time I get there.

You actually have a short period of time to react before you lose control because it plays a short animation when it loses its health. It's very easy to jump into the pit on purpose. It's almost like Toaplan wanted people to double-KO. But the boss gives you 60K points, plus 9K for the things in front of it. And if you're playing the A version you get a bunch of enemies that are easy to jump on after each respawn, giving you nearly 80k points per life, which is almost enough for a whole new extend.
This is the highest scoring replay I've seen, and probably the highest anyone has ever done. He could have bopped a bunch more enemies along the way, but that's about it. And he spends one and a half hour grinding at the final boss D:

They seemed to go out of their way to make the A version harder than the B version. I'm starting to like the USA part of A, but I wish the China part had some more stuff to do in that version. It's the first stage, but I think USA B has more interesting stuff going on than China A does.

Yeah that's true. I think China A has some fun jumping puzzles though, especially if you want to score points from the things that spawn in the ceiling at the start of the indoor section.

Also, are the yellow jiangshi worth more points than the normal blue ones? I think they are, but I'd need to test. There are only like three or four of them, so I want to figure out if it's better to go for the yellow ones or not.

They are all worth 1000pts when you jump on them, I take the top route jumping on all the blue ones, then falling below the roof to shoot the yellow one getting away, jump on the final yellow one and duck to get the shield.

[Steven]

9,053,030 points

Holy shit I think I am going to go practice some more now.

I watched a few pieces of it and it looks like he decided to sacrifice his shield to kill the big Metroid and then do a nice jump chain on the small ones. I'm going to give B another attempt, this time playing for score rather than just the clear.

[Sumez]

Jesus, just as I thought I'd investigated all the secrets of this game, something new happened.

I was at the top of the pirate ship, around the first mast, shooting skulls left and right. I think I'd just lost my shield and gotten a new one at the mast, but I'm not completely sure about the order of things. And then a 2UP appeared above my head! Not a pick up, just the graphic popping up like with the 1UP or 500pts, etc. Taking my lives from 3 to 5 after an otherwise disaster of a run. (of course I later blew it, dying 4 times in a row to the Wardner pattern - a place where I've nearly never died before)

Now this time I really wish I could rewind and see my footage as on PS4

[Steven]

I found this website, which seems to be the website of the player who got that crazy score you posted earlier, which has point values for everything, but it also mentions this

その他に撃つと得点の入る場所（300点×10発）やしゃがむとプロテクターが装着できる場所、しゃがむと2upなどがある。

It seems that in addition to crouching to get the shield, you can also crouch in some places to get a 2UP. Need to go crouch in various places now!

It also mentions that there are some enemies that give more than 1000 points when shot, so you shouldn't jump on them.

On the southern islands, you should NOT jump on

skeleton birds
the skull spider thing
those big tree things

In the Japan stage, don't jump on the rokurokubi.

The reapers carrying the coffins also give more than 1000 points, but you can't jump on them anyway because of the coffins. Those guys are worth a lot of points and there are a lot of them, so I'm going to try killing a bunch of them now.

I didn't have any time to play yesterday, unfortunately. Not sure if I want to increase my score on B or finish the A clear at this point, but I have a feeling that I should finish A before going back to B.

Are there any points in A where the cutter is useful? I think it's mostly just a penalty weapon in that version. It can be slightly useful against the headless guys at the start of the Europe stage in B, though.

[Sumez]

You're right. I just found out the same. The 2UP is at the right edge of the first portion of the top of the pirate ship, just ducking there gets it. I'll find out where the rest are!

[Steven]

You know what we need? Screenshots of all of the hidden shield and 2UP locations. I can do some of them when I get a chance to play again. At this point we might as well make a Horror Story ST somewhere with all of the knowledge that we have.

I didn't check the entirety of that replay yet, so some might be there, but since he was playing for score, he would go as far as possible with the shield to get points from all of the P items, so he wouldn't even be able show all of the shield locations in a score run.

[Sumez]

I guarantee you that the shield locations I listed in my post are all of them. This is based on data directly from the game itself.
I'll get screenshots next time I go through the game. Unless you want to do them.

[Steven]

Oh, you checked the ROM data, didn't you? Lol that's the best way to do it! Need to get all of the locations where you can shoot the scenery for bonus points. That will actually be pretty easy to do with the pseudo-invulnerability mode M2 included here on version A. I'm hoping that B's locations don't differ too much.

Yeah, I can do the screenshots. I kind of really want to do the ST now, as I want to get more people to play this game, so I'll go through and check everything. There are a few things that I want to test, too, like weapon viability, especially in version A. In B, assuming you are playing just for survival and not for score, you can mostly just 3-way yourself through the majority of the game, but there are parts where the bomb is good and where the cutter is moderately useful. I think missile and laser are mostly kind of useless, sadly. I guess it wouldn't be a Toaplan game without terrible weapon balance.

[Sumez]

There are a bunch of places in A where 3-way isn't viable, and I always try to change to bomb, and usually those places will have a spot where it's relatively easy to change. But a few tight spots are at the end of the USA town (after the barrels+ghosts where I absolutely need 3-way, but before the blue ghosts blocking your way), or at the last weapon change before the final boss (since fighting it with the bombs are a bit more risky) where I'll take any other weapon if it's not safe to pick up the item I want.

My usual switch-ups are:
3-way before the indoor area in china, but bombs some time before the boss (not really necessary, but it makes things faster).
I always pick up a 3-way after the dragon boss and keep it through japan, switching to a B some time after the last set of birds, but before the boss.
I pick up another 3-way after the samurai boss, and keep it through the USA town. It's ok if I accidentally pick up any other weapon at the pirate ship, but I need a 3-way for those pink ghosts in the town.
I need any stronger weapon before the blue ghosts at the end of the town, and then need the 3-way again at any point before the bottomless pit with winged creatures coming up at the trees - plenty of opportunities to grab that one.
I get the bomb before the native chief boss, this is where you get a trillion powerup items, plenty to choose from.
I switch back to 3-way after that boss to deal with the ghosts dropping fire, and keep that until I switch back to bombs at the start of the graveyard. I try not to kill the zombies in front of me, prioritizing movement to the right, and only shoot bombs behind med to avoid any catching up to me.
The large waves of ghosts coming after these are very easy to chain-jump and pretty much a bonus scoring sections, so no reason for the 3-way. IIRC I just keep the bombs right up until the final boss which I need any other weapon to.

Though I think I'm gonna change strategy for the "wardner dragon" too, and use 3-way for that one just to finish it off faster, after my shitty luck with it yesterday.

The biggest issue with this approach IMO is dealing with the birds in the outdoor section of the castle stage, but the 3-way isn't able to deal with the skeletons fast enough, and my current strategy needs the bombs to consistently deal with the following section with the fire birds.

EDIT: Btw in case you were speculating - what weapon the item roulette spawns on is entirely RNG, and cannot be manipulated or predicted. At least not outside of regular RNG manipulation (the randomizer is only ticked when an object actually requests a random value, so theoretically you can force some amount of consistency, but I wouldn't consider it reliable)

[Steven]

I turned on the invulnerability and gave myself unlimited lives just in case and I think I found every place in the game where you can shoot the terrain for points. I recorded the entire run and I think I can take screenshots of the recording on the PS5, so I shouldn't have to waste time transferring it to my PC. Need to do the run over again without the invulnerability to get the shield locations. I think there are also some B-only shot locations, as well, so I have to check that one too.

The biggest issue with this approach IMO is dealing with the birds in the outdoor section of the castle stage, but the 3-way isn't able to deal with the skeletons fast enough, and my current strategy needs the bombs to consistently deal with the following section with the fire birds.

I say take the 3-way and then jump on the skeletons. For the fire birds, they will fly up to reach your vertical position, so you can take advantage of that to jump high as they spawn and then either jump on them or avoid them entirely.

EDIT: Btw in case you were speculating - what weapon the item roulette spawns on is entirely RNG, and cannot be manipulated or predicted. At least not outside of regular RNG manipulation (the randomizer is only ticked when an object actually requests a random value, so theoretically you can force some amount of consistency, but I wouldn't consider it reliable)

I had a feeling that was the case. Nothing can be done about it, so that's just how it is.

[Sumez]

Had time for a single practice game today, and unexpectedly got the A Version 1CC.
Switching to 3-way helped me get past the outdoor area at the castle with the birds, but I died once just trying to switch weapons, since you can't reliably pick up the item at the start of that section at any point of its path. As expected I also struggled with the fire birds in the next section, dying there twice, but being able to pick up the bombs to easily make it past it. So honestly still not sure exactly what I'm gonna do here.

I still managed to reach the final stage with at least 8 lives in stock, but performed absolutely horribly there. And it wasn't even the difficult sections I struggled with, as I'd practiced those and aced them, just died to a ton of dumb stuff and accidentally got the wrong weapon which really screwed up my strategies. Ultimately I made it to the final boss with 3 lives left, which was still enough to do the Double K.O. around 10 times or so (lost count)



Ultimately I really love this game, it's totally my sort of thing. Getting experience with the jumping mechanics really opened up the game for me. The double jump is weird, but really extends what you can do with in-air movement and The Darkness Bop™.
I didn't realise all the nuance of it on my first couple of forays into the game - that you can cancel the double-jump and descent quickly by pressing down, this means you can actually do quicker hops with a double jump than a single tap of jump. And holding the joystick down while landing on an enemy allows you to proceed downwards, which really creates some unique and fun puzzle mechanics to the already cool system.

Though it felt tough at first, I'm now certain the A Version is definitely my favourite revision. It seems quite feasible to quickly learn everything there is to do in B, while A has so many unique obstacles that you need to really plan your way and always keep on your toes. The final stage really makes the stakes ramp up like a final stage should - the castle stage just doesn't do that. It also has some really unique enemy formations which challenges your darkness boppin' and familiarity with the game's mechanics, most of which are absent on B.



Brilliant game, and though I'm probably gonna put it on the backburner soon, I'll start practicing it again next time I get a chance to play it on an original PCB, I want to do the 1CC on hardware. But if I can find the time one of the next couple of days, I'm gonna try to see if I can record a run as well. It really helps my own future self to have my strategies stored for posterity

[Sumez]

Recorded a 1CC video as I said I would
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KROoR8ZwStQ

Still not a pretty run, but a clear is a clear. I'm done with this game for now. Will probably do it for our annual live 1CC stream next year

[BIL]

Well done! This one's always felt a bit under-reported on, glad to see it get some quality attention now there's a definitive home release.

[Sumez]

! Lucky no. 7 !

This one's always felt a bit under-reported on, glad to see it get some quality attention now there's a definitive home release.

Under-reported is putting it lightly. Pretty much every instance of documentation on it is loaded with misinformation. Most people are picking up the game by browsing mame, and thus only ever seeing the "B version", which is the parent rom despite it, according to Steven here, being much much more rare than the A version, which to me definitely feels like the more evolved and satisfying version of the game. The few reviews of it out there are mostly dismissive of it, highlighting how the strict jumping controls supposedly makes the game worse.
HG101 is no stranger to misrepresentation, and this game showcases that proudly.
> the bombs are almost worthless like the Ghosts ‘n Goblins torch
> [the PCE version] also jumbles up the order of the stages for some bizarre reason, starting out with the Chinese segment before the Japanese one and ending up at the Western town as the third level.
> Despite the level shuffling, the extra boss and level make this the definitive edition,

The Wikipedia articles is misinformed about the composers according to Steven (I thought I heard tunes which reminded me of Wardner, but it might be a programming thing), and of course it's completely wrong about the board revisions once again.
Also not sure where it picked up this bit:
> Although there is an ending, the game loops back to the first stage after completing the last stage as with previous titles from Toaplan, with each one increasing the difficulty.

Hopefully the game will get more of the respect it deserves with the Zero Fire compilation, but it might take a while for people to pick up on it.
Maybe it's possible to push mame to change up the official ROM naming to at least highlight the vast difference between the two different versions, outside of the minor revisions within those.

[BIL]

CLASSIC ELITISM FROM SUMEZ (■｀w´■)

That'll go nicely with Daimakaimura (MD ver is the best, it has an invincibility cheat) and Saigo (PCE ver is best, you might survive despite not knowing how any of its weapons work)'s reviews.

[Steven]

*HG101*
lol

*HG101 says PC Engine version is the definitive version*
LOL

Tomizawa was absolutely the only music dude on this game, though, and even M2 during a stream said that the B version is exceptionally rare compared to the A version. Don't trust Wikipedia in this case, either.

Horror Story is one of the best and probably most obscure Toaplan games (among those that actually got released, anyway. How many people actually know about DT7, Genkai Chousen Distopia, Teki-Paki 2, and that 3D flight simulator that I always forget the name of?). I really wish more people would play it. Remember when I was saying that it's possibly the best game on the Zero Fire collection when it was announced? Yeah, I stand by that.

[Sumez]

Have people been talking about the differences between the MegaDrive and arcade versions of Sunset Riders here in the past?
Over the years I've seen a lot of discourse about which was the better port out of MegaDrive and SNES, and every time it's been so loaded with bias that it's impossible to derive anything from it.

I think looking at it objectively, the SNES port is a fantastic port, it's great at reproducing nearly everything from the arcade game with similar colorful graphics and a sense for detail, in fact I'd consider it one of the most impressive contemporary ports of the era. It leaves out some things for various reasons, which is a strike against it, but what is there is great. Though that's a conclusion based around only extremely short time spent with it - I've rarely touched anything outside the arcade PCB. At the same time, the SNES port is faithful enough that I'd consider it irrelevant at this point in time. Play the game on PCB instead (it's still one of the few affordable ones), or support Hamster and get the ACA version. Or play it on MAME if that sort of stuff is your jam.

What I'm interested in here is the MegaDrive version. I never actually tried it until earlier this year, and unfortunately I don't own a copy myself. On the surface it looks like an uglier version of the same game, with a bit of a baffling palette usage and the iconic isometric perspective traded for a more tile-effecient front view.
But the stages and overall feel of the game is also remarkably different. Stages are longer with added sections and a more focus on continuous pure run'n'gun gameplay compared to the arcade original that likes to switch up setpieces constantly - most of which are missing in this one. I'd almost consider it analogous to the NES port of Contra in certain ways.

Again, I've spent very little time with this version, but I really liked what I did play. It also felt a lot tougher to me than the arcade game, with bullets flying left and right, again more akin to traditional run'n'gun. Though me having a hard time could potentially be acredited to being more used to how the arcade version feels to play.
I've heard MegaDrive affecionados in the past defend this port strongly, but I had also heard people brush it off as Konami just tasking their B-team with creating a cheap cut-down port that they didn't care much about. What's the consensus among people who know genuine R2RKMF?

[BIL]

I've only played the AC ver, owing to shameless NTSCJ elitism I remember Perikles writing a bit about the MD port here (he too regarded the SNES one as an excellent translation of the PCB).

I've been meaning to see if putting the US arcade ver on max difficulty works like Hideyuki "Falco" Tsujimoto's previous directorial outing, Super Contra; would be nice to get max Rank and second loop intensity, without the rather long lead-up. The only real criticism I have of the JP 2ALL is the easy st2 autoscroller followed by a silly bonus round (the st7 autoscroller is nicely fraught "speedkill or die," as are the loop's). The thought of going for a 2ALL NoMiss only to face a maxed up Scalpem gives me the willies, pardner!

I always associated Konami with endless loopers via Gradius, but there's a bunch of high-profile stuff from them with a set two loops: Crime Fighters and its sequel, XEXEX, Trigon, Detana Twinbee, Salamander 2, and ofc Tsujimoto's own run/gun triptych of Super Contra, Sunset Riders, and Mystic Warriors... probably more, I'm sure. I used to think the set 2ALL was more an IREM thing. I think I got all those right, it's been a while with a few.

[BryanM]

While listening to Fami Altered Beast's tunes, I noticed there were eight stages to the game. "Eight stages? Wasn't one more than enough?!"

But the underwater stage is a neater aesthetic than later games in the franchise had.

This of course reminded me of another stinker: Dinowarz. And I don't think any fellow forum-go'ers would have a punchup with me on that one - I believe it has been mentioned here all of once, and (?) only mentioned in a list as something somebody owned? (I have since noticed that the poster and I both misspelled the name of the game. ......It's Dynowarz. ... ...)

My memories of this one was as a rental when I was kid, as it exploited my love of dinosaurs and robots at the time. (I'm sure I'll grow out of that, in 3 more dacades time.) I remember the orange dinosaur, I remember a lot of looping flat terrain, and not being especially stimulated.

By the icycalm scale Dinowarz could never be considered "average" by someone reasonable, so it's one of those 1/5 games. Maybe it's not as shit as Action 52 or whatever; maybe there should be an additional scale inspired by 2nd edition Dungeon and Dragons and add an Exceptional Shit stat that goes from 01 to 00. My point is quantifying shit is what a bored person who spends too much time on the internet would do - shit is shit!

Watching a vid, I realized Dinowarz has human sections. I don't really see their point. The ending does the Ghostbusters thing where it says "Congratulations! You finished another great game." All I could think of is "if someone has to say they're great..."

Giant monster games on the NES were always underwhelming, too. I guess it's unreasonable to have spritework as impressive as Gotta Protectors Amazon Diet has, since that game put everything into only one character. Just... kind of feels like somebody could have done better. Surrendering to the dreaded black backgrounds like most of the jRPGs did would have been preferable..

On the topic of tag shooters, it reminded me of how Archon's basilisk's shot will slow the target it hits. It's interesting that being able to take more than one hit creates more design space. The medusa heads in I Wanna Be The Guy petrifying you was such a weirdly merciful thing for that game to do.


I have googled them, and here's some other bangers by Advance Communication Company:

Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde


I have written a script for a Dynowarz AVGN episode:

The nerd gives a brief history of the game, the appeal that giant robot dinosaurs have, ending with a mention of its connection to Dr.Jekyll with a shudder. "Who knows? It might be good!"

8 seconds of the guy trudging to the right. Cut to a close up of the nerd's eyes, looking a little concerned.
8 seconds of the robot trudging to the right. Cut to a close up of the nerd's eyes, looking a little worried.
8 seconds of the guy trudging to the right. Cut to a close up of the nerd's eyes, looking a little shocked.
8 seconds of the robot trudging to the right. Cut to a close up of the nerd's eyes, looking a little frustrated.
8 seconds of the guy trudging to the right. Long shot of the nerd asleep on the couch.
8 seconds of the robot trudging to the right. Shot of the couch empty.
8 seconds of the guy blowing up a boss. Ending sequence plays.
Dead silence.

2 minute long film. 10 million views. Give me my Oscar.