LS-56 love

[sunnshine]

Righty-o, here are some pics.

This is how I assembled it when the kits arrived, I realised when I was taking the pics that the actuator couldn't hit the gate and was actually being stopped by the switch bodies-

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so I took it apart and removed the four little nubby looking things so it could sit between the Kowal plates and the circuit board-

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then reassembled it-

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Much better. Now the gate actually seems to do something and stops the extra bit of travel after the switches have been, er, switched.

I also think I found what might be causing that extra 'step' you could feel when you push the stick that little bit further, it looks like the extra lateral force on the stick pushes the stick up against the tension spring and allows the actuator to slip under the metal switch hinge and up against the gate- maybe the gate isn't doing anything with this set up after all!

with the switch just activated-

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and with a bit of extra force applied-

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[bigbadboaz]

Oh wow. So you did something a little more elaborate there. Thanks for all the info.

We'll see what happens when I put my next order in. I'm actually pretty happy with the regular Kowal setup still, now that I reverted it.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I've got an LS-56-01 in my Mad Catz SFIV TE stick and there's a little (maybe 3mm or so) bit of 'slop' before the switches engage. It's set up with a square gate, 4 x 3mm Kowal throw mod spacers + longer screws to shorten the throw further than it would be with just 2 x 3mm spacers but I can't dial that initial slop out, it's like it needs a larger diameter actuator as well, for me anyway. Anyone know if there's such a thing available, or if it can be done?

Old thread, but I just was looking for some opinions here on the LS-56 and LS-62 as all rounders. I'm only used to JLF with higher tension spring and Kowal actuator and the LS-32 and would like to try short engage sticks for once, even for fighters. The main issue I find with those is not the long throw or engage distance, but how the shaft moves before being actually pushed, just by barely touching it. Since english is not my first language, I was wondering if that's the same issue as this "slop" thing mentioned here. I guess it's not, because what I mean seems to be related to the pivot having too much clearance. Are there solutions for this for both, the Sanwas and the Seimitsus?

Also, is the LS-62 shaft height the same as the LS-32, which I find to be perfect? Any other difference with the LS-56? Any experience with the LS-58 or LS-60 as well?

Thks.

[bigbadboaz]

I think what you're talking about and the "slop" are the same. And I can't think of any sticks that don't have it; it's almost impossible for these designs not to have some clearance between the actuator and switches at rest, especially as the stick wears. This has never bothered me but I know some people are very sensitive to it; it sucks to say you might just have to deal with it but I think that's the case.

Oversized actuators and keeping a fresh spring installed might be the best way to mitigate it - anything that keeps empty space and looseness in the mechanism to absolute minimums.

I do believe the shaft length on the LS-60 is the same as the 32, as it's one of the thinly modified models based on it. That and the 62 as well - a quick lookup of the models should confirm that. And the 58 is supposedly just the 56 with a softer spring, more like a JLF in tension (or looseness, rather). I felt the 56 tension was better suited, but that's the difference.

Anyway, if your main concern is the slop I don't think moving to any of these is a solution. The 56 exhibits the same behavior (same basic design elements, as in most of the Seimitsus) and the 6- are extremely similar to the 32 you already have. If anything I would stick to the 32 and variants since you like the shaft length. I would choose the 32 above a lot of sticks except for the shaft length.. so if you even like that parameter I think it'd be hard to beat overall.

[cfx]

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[Bassa-Bassa]

Thanks both for the input.

EDIT: I do think you are talking about something different than what bigbagboaz is referring to, though maybe I'm the one misunderstanding. He is referring to engage distance, the amount you move the stick before it engages the switches.

I think he's not talking about the engage distance (nor the dead zone), but the distance until the actuator just touches the switch, but I'm not entirely sure if it's exactly the same as this:

I think you are instead referring to actual looseness in the pivot assembly, such if you take a joystick and lightly shake it without touching the shaft at all, it will move around a little bit. I don't mean shaking so heavily that you're overcoming the spring tension though to some degree that is what is happening which is why a heavier spring reduces the motion.

...which is what I meant. Up until now I thought that's due to the pivot clearance (at least on a JLF, because with a Kowal actuator I still get it and the pivot's clearance is in fact clearly there), but it [also] could well be the actuator's clearance as bigbagboaz says. Too bad reading that all the Japanese sticks are like this, even the tighter models. Perhaps I should try a metal actuator on the JLF next. Or I also heard that there are even metal pivots?


And yeah, I think I should try the JLX as well, though I really wanted to experience one with short engage and medium throw. I tried the always forgotten JLW once and didn't like it but it was not really a good test. Are the parts between JLF and JLX interchangable? Such as, restrictor, spring, actuator, shaft?

Another I'm really curious about is the 70 series from Seimitsu because of the square-octo hybrid restrictor, though I also read it's sadly JLF-like regarding looseness. I wonder if changing parts with these are as easy as it is with the JLF and you can use any spring that fits.


More on topic - is the clover-shaped restrictor for the LS-56 or -62 intended to cancel diagonals for 4-way-only usage? Can the shaft really move smoothly despite that gate shape?

[cfx]

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[Bassa-Bassa]

I think he's not talking about the engage distance (nor the dead zone), but the distance until the actuator just touches the switch, but I'm not entirely sure if it's exactly the same as this:

That is the engage distance, isn't it? Or at least most of it--there's also the fact that the tabs of the switches move a certain distance before the switch actually engages,

As I've always understood, that's what differentiates engage distance and "dead zone [distance]".

aside from if there are switches where that distance is lessened, that aspect can't be changed because you can't really have an actuator that's so large the it has the switches partially depressed (but not engaged) at resting position.

Yeah. I should focus on lessening the so-called "slop", which I guess it is what you described in your first post and what I find really annoying. After checking it a bit more, I'm again quite sure it's more related to the pivot clearance than anything else. I'm buying a couple of JLX basing it on your notes, thks!

Besides, more opinions on LS-56 and LS-62 as all rounders and their gates will still be welcome.

[cfx]

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[bigbadboaz]

I don't think the levered microswitches have the effect you think. The backside of the lever is in direct contact with the switch actuator; there is no "lag" between when the joystick actuator contacts the microswitch lever and when the switch actuation begins.

Subjectively, I don't really think that the feel of switch engagement changes much either. I use LS-32, 40, and 56 and engagement is crisp, clean, and very similar to what I feel with a JLF. Keep in mind that if you're thinking the leverage of, well, a lever would lead to "softness" in engagement, differences in the underlying switch could easily counter/negate that. And Seimitsu DO use different switches than Sanwa.

Of all the sticks mentioned above, it's actually the LS-32 I would say has the crispest, clearest feel of the microswitches engaging. It's easily my favorite stick in terms of feel.. it's other characteristics that keep me from maining it.

If ever interested, I certainly wouldn't let this factor keep you from trying a Seimitsu stick. Your experiences with (possibly bad) clones aside, the characteristics I would say set them apart from the JLF and from each other don't seem to come from the levered switches.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I have quite a bit of experience with the AES stick, the HSS-0130, the non-Seimitsu single-player Virtua Stick, and the original Virtua Stick (grey and blue), among others. I believe all of those have levered switches. And it's night-and-day if the stick is an actual Seimitsu or a cheap clone.

The AES one is likely the most precise, responsive stick I've ever played with, and never knew then if it was a Seimitsu or if the switches had levers, nor cared. It's too bad I hated almost everything else of it.

So it is indeed a personal matter. I don't really know which one I like better these days - the modded JLF or the LS-32. Both have downsides and both have this irritating "slop"/looseness just by barely touching them, and I'm sure my STG plays would be better without any of these.

[cfx]

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[Bassa-Bassa]

Yeah, that's it. Pretty sure that particular stick uses microswitches - the feel and feedback those have is not something you'd mistake. Maybe this video clarifies it a bit:

https://youtu.be/Rv9RrCTWd60?t=136

It was superloose so maybe you'll like it in this regard.

No idea how's the Western version of that though.

[Rastan78]

OTOH, the switch used on the LS-32 and LS-40, listed as a 2017 version where I found the info so I don't know if there's a different version

That's when Panasonic quit making microswitches so they had to switch over to Omrons designed to mimic the originals as close as they could.

No idea how's the Western version of that though.

The black one? I think this is the first stick I ever owned and opened up lol. Instead of the microswitches the western version has a cheap membrane based lever. Picture a d pad like deal with a spring-loaded lever that compressed the membrane.

Bassa I also had the HSS-0130, but oddly enough mine came with Sanwa JLFs instead of the usual LS-32s. My guess is that it wasn't modded but they produced some batches with the Sanwas.

[cfx]

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[Rastan78]

Just to be clear the one that came with the authentic LS-32 (and rarely perhaps the JLF?) was the massive 2P stick that was more or less the entire control panel of an Astro City. The smaller single player stick just had the clone stick I believe.

[cfx]

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[Rastan78]

Oh cool I didn't realize there were 2 versions of the single player virtus stick. I had the clunkier ascii stick on mine. Pretty sure that is an LS-56 for the record

[Bassa-Bassa]

First time I hear about the HSS-0130 (or any Sega arcade controller, for that matter) mounting a stock JLF, but rarer things have happened. The 2nd generation (white) single-player Virtua Stick I had was terrible in every regard except appearance - hard to believe it mounted an LS-56 or any other Seimitsu-branded stick, I even preferred the grey Virtua Stick to that one! But yeah, there was also sold a version with a true Seimitsu stick without any notice.

If the black Virtua Stick for the West was like the Arcade Power Stick for the MD, that was quite miserable from Sega's part. At least, I guess the shaft and the balltop were not fixed like with the latter.

[Rastan78]

Another I'm really curious about is the 70 series from Seimitsu because of the square-octo hybrid restrictor, though I also read it's sadly JLF-like regarding looseness. I wonder if changing parts with these are as easy as it is with the JLF and you can use any spring that fits.

Just put an LS-56 spring into my 70 and it feels perfect. Can't recommend highly enough.

[Bassa-Bassa]

The 70 gate is not compatible with any other stick, right?

Have you tried the new JLX?

[Rastan78]

I bet the 70 gate would fit on the other compact Seimitsu sticks. It's basically a modified LS-56 for the most part. I like the gate better than the semi octo on the nobi pro (which was a modified LS-40 gate). They look the same but the 70 rolls smoother through the notches in the gate for some reason.

Didn't pick up the JLX bc I already have the JLF which I don't use right now. Might have to check out the one coming with the new microswitches eventually tho.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Interesting, thks. Is it true you can modify its shaft's height?

[Rastan78]

Yeah this is what they call the "NT" shaft. You can get it as a replacement part for about any Seimitsu stick but I think the 70 is the first one to have it standard.

It's a smart feature IMO. You can account for different mounting heights, slightly tweak the feeling of throw and tension, and readjust the height for a bat or nobi top. And you don't have to mess with the C clip and take out the whole shaft or anything. You just unscrew the top part of the shaft, add/remove a spacer and screw it back on.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Sounds great. Now I have to get me one of these as well.

[ThundergunExpress]

I just got a Seimitsu 70X a few weeks ago. A few weeks before that I got a JLX. Over a year before all of this, I exclusively used a Seimitsu ls-32 and loved it, but still wanted something that was more sensitive. More throw, shorter engage, less looseness, and a stiffer feel.

I think the JLX is definitely an improvement on the JLF, but found myself just wanting to go back to the ls-32. It wasn't an improvement for me so I put back in my ls-32 after giving the JLX a week trial. It's great and I'm sure it's incredible for a lot of people. Still felt slightly looser, or sloppier than the ls-32. Not by a large margin, but noticeable to me.

The Seimitsu 70X however, has been what I've been looking for out of the box. Having said that I'm still going to buy an ls-56 spring and put that in. This is all personal opinion and preferences really, but for me this is it. I have no desire to use anything else. I really love the square-octagonal gate because it feels smooth and precise. The pivot is steel by default so no annoying "hopping" like you get with most ls-32s. The NT shaft is great, especially if you enjoy trying different ball tops. Just like Rastan78 said- It's fixed to not rotate, so you can just unscrew the balltop by hand without taking your arcade stick apart. You can also remove the shaft entirely, or adjust the height with the spacers. I love it.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Wait, does the 70 series have a fixed shaft? I thought that was just the LSX-NOBI.

[ThundergunExpress]

Wait, does the 70 series have a fixed shaft? I thought that was just the LSX-NOBI.

Indeed it does. I thought I'd have to get used to it, but it wasn't as different as I expected. I even slightly prefer it now. I just screwed the base of the shaft on tighter so the whole shaft doesn't have to come off if I replace the balltop.

[Bassa-Bassa]

My experience with fixed shafts was long ago and only with the Arcade Power Stick for MD, but it wasn't good. For 2D figthing games, I really can't think of it working well.

[cfx]

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