What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Drauch is right, "Search Action" is the Japanese term for that style of game, which is a much better descriptor of the genre as a whole given most of the early Castlevania games are not "Metroidvania" in terms of how they play, and Metroid wasn't the first sidescrolling exploration based platformer in that style.

https://twitter.com/JonComms/status/1277686172374970374

[XoPachi]

Yeah, I hate "MetroidVania". I stopped using it the moment I saw Nintendo call it "Search Action" when Samus Returns was being shown off.
I always found the term stupid sounding and reductive. It's inherently putting games in the shadows of giants and just sounds like trendy 2010 retro gaming YouTuber bullshit. A few genres have garbage names. Like I even hate "shmup". It sounds...terrible. STG isn't much better, but it's better.

----

I started playing Mario 3D Land again after 10 years and it's painful to even type out that timeframe. We are going to die soon, folks.
Anyway, it's really shocking how much of an absurd leap forward 3D World is by comparison. I didn't even really like this game when it was new. Obviously this isn't a bad game and it was a fresh spin on things at the time. But it's probably flatter than even some of the NSMB games. It's apparent the moment you see the stunningly sterile world map. I don't begrudge the game for only having 5 levels a world given the nature of the game, but my God, these maps are just straight lines. All the cool things the world maps were doing from Mario 3 are just gone. Unless that changes after W-3 and I don't remember. I do remember that these levels get monotonous

This gameplay style also nerfed the Super Leaf. Like significantly gutted it. It's the same story in 3D World, but that game only had it as a formality and introduced new abilities that took much better advantage of this bridging gameplay style. The Super Leaf was the focus in 3D Land. It's strictly worse because there's no P meter and you can't take to the skies. So that additional depth that came from level routing to get the most out of the leaf is gone. It's just a less interesting safety net that breaks blocks here.

I guess I can't give the game too much grief because this is a full 3D platformer on the 3DS, which anyone else go it very wrong. but it really shows this was treading new ground. I probably won't finish this.

[Sumez]

I can't decide which is worse, "metroidvania" or "search action", but both are pretty awful tbh.

[mycophobia]

theres an odd charm to search action. sounds japanese

[Lemnear]

Weird because for Konami and Nintendo is better to use the term "Metroidvania" instead of "Search Action".
For example the term Soulslike works wonderful to sell Dark Souls indirectly also when you are selling other games.
Is advertising !

[drauch]

I don't think you're ever going to win when a game sub-genre isn't already entirely descriptive. It's always going to sound idiotic. I refuse to say 'boomer shooter' or 'immersive sim' unless I'm explicitly saying/typing it just to complain about it, but I begrudgingly (typically) understand what sort of game is mentioned, admittedly. Search-action at least describes what's happening, albeit a bit ambiguous in its 'search'. Metroidvania just makes me die inside. As Roo pointed out, stuff like that came beforehand. And then what do you call further Metroid games -- Metroidvania, despite the term coming from Castlevania adopting the Metroid Search-action format!? Dear god, what has happened here. Perhaps I need to play a Soulslike to get the sour taste out of my mouth.

[BrianC]

Drauch is right, "Search Action" is the Japanese term for that style of game, which is a much better descriptor of the genre as a whole given most of the early Castlevania games are not "Metroidvania" in terms of how they play, and Metroid wasn't the first sidescrolling exploration based platformer in that style.

Not to mention that Konami already had other "search action" games like Maze of Galious and Goonies II before SoTN was a thing.

[Sima Tuna]

Language is about communication. Even if a descriptor is not entirely accurate or sounds dumb, if more people know what you are talking about when you use it than otherwise, you should use it. "Search Action" may sound slicker, but if the first reaction of someone you use that word on is "what's that" then you have failed to communicate effectively. Verbal aesthetics are meaningless when weighed against clarity. When you say "metroidvania," everyone understands what you are talking about. The word might sound bad to you and there were metroidvanias that predated both metroid and castlevania. So the term isn't exact. But it is understood.

I hate "boomer shooter" because it's a gen-z way of describing a genre dating back to Wolfenstein 3d. But it is growing in popularity as a buzzword for retro shooters. If I say "retro fps," the meaning is pretty close. But there might still be some people who think "retro fps" is any old first person shooter game. Immersive Sim is another term like it. "Immersive Sim" doesn't actually mean anything as a word. Any game can be immersive and any game can contain simulation elements. But people are starting to associate that phrase with a very specific subgenre. What should we say instead? Morrowind-likes? First-person RPGs? But then you'd get people claiming that Wizardry is an immersive sim, because it's a first-person rpg.

Words change in living languages and literal meaning is always secondary to comprehension. We use verbal shorthand every day which is inexact as fuck but commonly understood.

Nothing I've said takes away from the preferences of people who dislike these terms. But however much you dislike them, you will probably want to employ them when speaking. For clarity. I know some people refuse to use the word "shmup" and always say STG or shooting game. Oh, shooting game? Like Call of Duty huh? Or maybe you say "STG" and they think you're talking about Herpes. But the most common response you'll get is "what is that?" Then you have to explain it to them and they say, "oh, a shmup!" Or "oh, a space ship shooter game!"

[BareKnuckleRoo]

"Search Action" may sound slicker, but if the first reaction of someone you use that word on is "what's that" then you have failed to communicate effectively.

No, it just means the term isn't as widely known yet. I'm sure there was a period of time where if you used the term "Metroidvania" people would ask for clarification on what you're referring to as well. There's no reason "Search Action" as the genre name can't be adopted through popular use and overtake the usage of the term "Metroidvania".

[drauch]

But then you consider Dead Rising Survival Horror... HMMMMMMMMMMM

But really, I don't think anyone is fighting your linguistics professor writeup here -- we're just bitching about it, and presumably going along with said stupid terms. I'll still be calling shit Metroidvanias, albeit dying inside when I do. But I'm fine with ostracizing myself from clear conversation when avoiding something like 'boomer shooter'. I'd rather die with my obstinate integrity intact. But this is easy for me, as I have like three people I talk to outside of this forum. The rest of you, though -- good luck! Fight the brave fight. Pretty sure that's how Hitler came to power, by convincing everyone that Rummy was a Poker-like.

[To Far Away Times]

Ok I thought search action was a more widely used term.

I think we should drop "MetroidVania" as the go to portmanteau and use the superior "CastleRoid."

[Sumez]

I'm heavily supporting the movement that tries to turn every genre name into <game title>-like.

Sokobanlikes are all the rage these days. This is actually something people say, and I'm here for it.

[null1024]

More Sound Voltex. I'm starting to clear 13s with some degree of consistency, but it's still rough. I love this game.
I really do need to work on my timing accuracy. Part of me wants to blame the fact that I'm getting old, part of me thinks that's BS -- but honestly, I've noticed myself gradually become less rhythmic in the last three years just tapping to the beat in general, so it might actually be true.
Honestly though, I started too late to bloody play for score, so I just want to clear shit.
I probably need to loosen my playstyle, I'm resting my hands on the cab/controller and that's leaving me flatfooted [flat-palmed? lmao] sometimes when I need to move quickly.

Also, I've been continuing to try to play Beatmania IIDX. I need to find a good hand position, my right pinky and the far right side of my palm cramp like hell if I try and keep four fingers on the keys, and then I need to move my left hand a bunch to scratch, bleh.
I am still bad -- for more modern songs, I can do up to 4s, but for stuff released before like 10th style or so, lmao. I just die since their idea of what an "easy" chart is just fucks my head up to read.

I really should go finish Bomb Rush Cyberfunk. I told myself I wasn't going to buy AC6 until I did, and then I haven't played since.

[NYN]

Kirby's Pinball Land

On OGB. Never been much on video pinball (can't recall if I've ever been in the same room with a steel machine, THAT is telling), so here. But I know this, and I like it. To me it's keen. Where is the REMAKE?! Previously playing purely on reaction, which I'm aware now and ever is not the way. DANG to go from that to be precise and patient. The FUNFUNFUN. Not much of a learner, more of intuition. I can understand what it is I have to do on any table, though. To land on the 4 place HI-SCORE list with the lowest around 444, --- , and the highest double that, I will put in the dedication. Just to eradicate that stupid girl name that taunts me every time I fail to enter. Huah, is that Freudian enough, now?

[Marc]

I know what I WILL be playing:

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2023 ... comments

I'll pony up for Daytona 2 and Galaxy Force alone.
Let's hope there's a few more to be confirmed. OutRunners..... please?

[Lemnear]

Rage Racer (NTSC)(PS1)
Ridge Racer Type-4 (NTSC)(PS1/PS4)
Ridge Racer 2 (PSP)(PS4)

I need that "sense" of speed

Starting: Koudelka (PS1)

[XoPachi]

I'm playing Pokemon Live.

Coming to this game as a Yugioh player is really fucking funny. Seeing a card that says Discard 2 DRAW 7 is hilarious. Because if Yugioh ever printed anything that said "draw 7" that card would be banned before it printed. We have a card called Pot of Desires. You draw 2 with it so it's just a +1. But you have to banish 10 cards face down from your deck. Face down banishment is basically the most permanent card removal in the game and most decks run the minimum of 40 cards. So Desires is demanding you banish 1/4 of your deck to get 1 extra card. And guess what? That shit WINS games. It's been meta since it released. It's that goddamn good. Cancer, shit ass game.

More Sound Voltex.

I watch Chris4Life play this a lot and this game looks SO goddamn hard. But it also makes me happy that Konami still makes games. They have the rhythm market cornered. Bit of a fanboy question, but do they have any remixes from their STG's? I know DDR did a few great ones for Gradius.

[null1024]

More Sound Voltex.

I watch Chris4Life play this a lot and this game looks SO goddamn hard. But it also makes me happy that Konami still makes games. They have the rhythm market cornered. Bit of a fanboy question, but do they have any remixes from their STG's? I know DDR did a few great ones for Gradius.

There are nowhere near enough remixes from Konami games in SDVX, sadly. I think I remember finding like one that was a big medley of a bunch of classic Konami games and that was it.

It's pretty easy to get into -- the buttons are in a fairly intuitive place, so you just press the four buttons with your fingers and the the two fx buttons with your thumbs. The knobs are where things get complicated fast [there are a lot of things you can do to simplify things, most notably the fact that there's no penalty for turning the knobs when there isn't an active laser beam and that you don't need to try and match the speed the laser is moving at], but if you just start out with difficulty 6 and lower songs and work your way up, you'll start to get the hang of it and do like level 9-10 stuff in like a month -- that's about how fast it took me, but I also got a friend to get there about as fast too.
Start really low to learn the controls [like, 2-4] your first day, and then push a bit after that.
I've started clearing almost every 13 I've done so far and I'm now doing lv 14 songs with a bit of effort now, although I've been playing a lot.

High level play involves painfully mean laser patterns and you're forced to move your hands all over the place out of the "natural" position that you would use, but it isn't until level 12 songs where the game starts doing that kind of stuff.
Just looked up chris4life and those are definitely very hard charts -- I have literally no idea if I'll ever be able to pass lv 19 songs, let alone get perfect no-miss clears like that, but I'm going to keep trying to get better.

[XoPachi]

Just looked up chris4life and those are definitely very hard charts -- I have literally no idea if I'll ever be able to pass lv 19 songs, let alone get perfect no-miss clears like that, but I'm going to keep trying to get better.

Yeah, Chris's videos probably isn't a fair way for me to assess the temper of the game because Chris is...an anomaly. The only thing about Voltex is that while the game looks fun, most of the music doesn't do anything for me. That I've heard anyway.
It's the same way with Project Diva for me. Great game, but I couldn't take listening to any of it after a while.

[null1024]

SDVX's music is definitely... something. I like large parts of it, but if it isn't your thing, then it really isn't.

...and hearing the same DJ voice bank sound samples get used across like six separate songs gets grating even if you like the songs, lmao

[Kiken]

Started grinding for the 1CC again in Top Hunter Roddy & Cathy. During my prior attempts I was able to get up to the final boss rush before Cpt Klapton. Although, I still don't really understand how I'm supposed to attack Klapton's final form.

[Stevens]

Sokobanlikes are all the rage these days. This is actually something people say, and I'm here for it.

Didn't Ebbo's new game just drop?

[AGermanArtist]

Zelda ToTK is a lot of game. I have 190hrs on it and decided no more side quests. I just want it over with. It's begun to outstay its welcome.
Not that it's a bad game, but I've had enough. I'm currently on my way to the Gannondorf fight and that's it for me. This game does not require DLC.

[Lander]

Cor, 190 hours is some serious mileage!

I find most all open world games eventually hit that point of outstaying their welcome once the treadmill becomes too apparent, though my limit tends to be somewhere around the 20-30 hour mark before I have to wrap it up and beeline the main quest.

[Sumez]

They absolutely will.
And to me, TOTK hit that point about the 60 hour mark, which to its merit is multitudes longer than that style of open world game ever managed for me.
And even then, I did end up playing for another 60 hour and more, and I'll admit even within the second half, it was still able to surprise me with a bunch new surprising experiences.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I've stuck it out longer with Terraria than expected and am starting to genuinely enjoy it. It took a lot of getting used to; I'm not crazy about playing 2D platformers with WASD + mouse controls and it took a lot of tweaking to the default controls to find a control scheme that I could wrap my head around, but I'm at the point where it's feeling good. Just has a hefty learning curve to get there.

It's pretty nuts how much mobility items impact the game. Getting your first cloud in a bottle or balloon is an absolute must, and eventually you get to be able to simply fly everywhere. I'm not 100% sure I like the idea of infinite flight in this kind of game because it means the platforming becomes irrelevant, and everything that's solid is merely an obstacle rather than a climbing challenge, but it takes a while to actually reach infinite flight so I guess by the time you get there you've earned it.

What's the accepted way to play through the difficulties? Are Expert and Master mode meant to be tackled by coming into them with equipment already in hand like a New Game+? Or are you meant to start from scratch with them?

[XoPachi]

Zelda ToTK is a lot of game. I have 190hrs on it and decided no more side quests. I just want it over with. It's begun to outstay its welcome.
Not that it's a bad game, but I've had enough. I'm currently on my way to the Gannondorf fight and that's it for me. This game does not require DLC.

I was able to finish everything in about 80 hours and it was stale for me in like 30 despite my initial impressions being a lot more positive. Just like the previous game, I found most of it to be empty wheel spinning. I was kind of just doing things just to say I completed the game but it was really unrewarding, droning monotony for me. But I'm with Sumez in that, yeah, it's better than it's ilk at least.

The amount of really exciting moments I had in the game was maybe only 8 hours tops. Navigating 0% visibility ass Thunderhead Island, dropping to the depths the first few times, some of the treks to the "dungeons", the near tear jerking Master Sword pull (the best cutscene I've ever watched), Colgera, and most of Gerudo Desert were pretty fun times at least.

[Lander]

I'm not 100% sure I like the idea of infinite flight in this kind of game because it means the platforming becomes irrelevant, and everything that's solid is merely an obstacle rather than a climbing challenge, but it takes a while to actually reach infinite flight so I guess by the time you get there you've earned it.

This has been bothering me forever in Search Action games. The mobility arms-race so often ends at unlimited airtime, which strikes me as the designer throwing their hands in the air and saying "I give up!" since you can't escalate much further without discarding locomotion entirely and giving the player instant teleport to any in-bounds position of their choice.
I find it's nice when a game doesn't cross that line and keeps its core gameplay relevant until the end, like Strider 2014 or Axiom Verge.

I remember noticing it in Terraria, but seeing it as more of a gameplay trade to enable different kinds of bosses for the late-game.

What's the accepted way to play through the difficulties? Are Expert and Master mode meant to be tackled by coming into them with equipment already in hand like a New Game+? Or are you meant to start from scratch with them?

Kind of both, since you can change difficulty on the fly in Journey Mode, but otherwise have to generate an Expert / Master world from scratch.
I think from scratch is probably intended, since it adds new drops to the existing bosses.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

The mobility arms-race so often ends at unlimited airtime, which strikes me as the designer throwing their hands in the air and saying "I give up!" since you can't escalate much further without discarding locomotion entirely

At least in Metroid II and Super Metroid, Space Jump still requires some basic execution to remain in the air permanently, though the combination of both Space Jump and Screw Attack means you can effectively fly forever with utter impunity at the end of the game. The only thing holding it back is both games still require you stop jumping/flying to actually shoot stuff.

I think from scratch is probably intended, since it adds new drops to the existing bosses.

Thanks for the feedback. Maybe if I'm inclined I'll try both ways, start on a normal map then play Expert and Master as New Game + / ++, then try Expert and Master as standalone, starting fresh.

[Marc]

They absolutely will.
And to me, TOTK hit that point about the 60 hour mark, which to its merit is multitudes longer than that style of open world game ever managed for me.
And even then, I did end up playing for another 60 hour and more, and I'll admit even within the second half, it was still able to surprise me with a bunch new surprising experiences.

You may have just sold me. Considering your general gaming, that's praise indeed.