on 34xbr960 rgbhv variation

[geargeeksp]

Hey guys, new to this forum, tbh, still haven't figured out what the shmups really means, but every time i look for stuff on 15k monitor and stuff , google always points me here~

viewtopic.php?p=1483843&hilit=32hs510#p1483843

and this one on 32hs510 is really cool, I just wanna confirm on one thing.

so said the sony hd crt ( hs510 or xbr800 or xbr960 series) are actually digital to analog if you use hdmi / dvi input

or it is actually digital to analog to digital to analog based on its signal chain, it makes slightly more sense on the cost (again based on the time it was made of course)

i have a few of those and they are the local Chinese version , so they have NO hdmi/dvi, but sony gave us rgbhv (even it is processed via YUV but still the h and v were barely touched , so it still offer a sharper image)

the 34xbr960 ( locally hr36m90 ) has been my main site for video for years , i have a few of those 4 by 3 ones too, the best we get is 38inch (36 viewable ) , so it would be 36hs510 without the dvi / hdmi.



would be interesting to know the actual signal follow of this set and yeah 540p does loook great as well as 1080i, but with all the gpu i have tried , they always have issues with win10, might be time to roll back to win7 soon

anyways , thanks again for all those awesome posts, hope to learn more about this hobby

Cheers

Lee

[fernan1234]

shmup is short for "shoot them up", the type of game where you control a character (usually a spaceship or plane) and shoot enemies on screen. This type of game goes all the way back to Space Invaders.

This website started as a place for fans of these games, but this hardware sub-forum in particular is very popular for detailed and technical discussions of all kinds of hardware related to gaming and video in general.

About your question, that kind of HD CRT typically processes analog inputs the same as digital inputs, though there are reports of people experiencing less latency when using a digital input when available. Image quality from analog RGBHV will be as good as YPbPr or even HDMI.

And you're right that 540p and 1080i are the best signals to send to these TVs, but 480p and 720p can look very good too and latency is just 1 frame.

[BazookaBen]

Thanks for stopping by Lee!

That's really interesting about the RGBHV input. I remember looking at schematics for Sony HDTVs many years ago and seeing they had unused RGBHV lines on the schematic. At the time, I wondered if it would be possible to "RGB mod" Sony HDTVs. Very cool to see those lines on the circuit board were actually used in China!

First, if I were you, I would try going into the service menu and setting "HDPT" to 0. This will disable processing on 33.75kHz signals.

Then you can see how it changes the picture at 1080i and 540p. You can create those as custom resolutions on a Windows PC. If you use a AMD or Nvidia card, I would try CRU (Custom Resolution Utility) to make them. I usually have good success with that.

Of course they will need to be slightly older GPUs that have DVI-I or VGA connectors for RGBHV

[fernan1234]

Of course they will need to be slightly older GPUs that have DVI-I or VGA connectors for RGBHV

Would a newer GPU + a simple HDMI to VGA DAC not work in this case? At least for a standard 1080i mode line it should, although it looks like more and more GPUs are dropping interlaced output support, sadly.

[BazookaBen]

Yeah, that's the problem. You can do 540p with any GPU. But interlacing support was dropped for RTX and RDNA cards. So roughly anything made in 2019 or later won't do 1080i.

Well except one RDNA2 GPU: the one in the PS5. Sony made sure you could still use their old HDTVs.

But you're right, no reason it has to be a analog GPU, especially if you're willing to lose 1080i, since HDMI>VGA DACs are cheap and plentiful

[geargeeksp]

shmup is short for "shoot them up", the type of game where you control a character (usually a spaceship or plane) and shoot enemies on screen. This type of game goes all the way back to Space Invaders.

This website started as a place for fans of these games, but this hardware sub-forum in particular is very popular for detailed and technical discussions of all kinds of hardware related to gaming and video in general.

About your question, that kind of HD CRT typically processes analog inputs the same as digital inputs, though there are reports of people experiencing less latency when using a digital input when available. Image quality from analog RGBHV will be as good as YPbPr or even HDMI.

And you're right that 540p and 1080i are the best signals to send to these TVs, but 480p and 720p can look very good too and latency is just 1 frame.

shoot em up is great...so as beat em up ,personally i prefer the later, thx for the explaination.

i tried ps3 on my set and it was amazing, even with just component input

i mostly use my pc via dvi-i to rgbhv, so yeah 1080i looks amazing for my video need.

so my question was really just about if

the signal follow of this sets for hdmi/dvi is


digital to analog to digital to analog

or simply just digital to analog.

lateny is not really much of any issue for me on this set though, it is great info for me of course

thx a lot


cheers

lee

[geargeeksp]

Thanks for stopping by Lee!

That's really interesting about the RGBHV input. I remember looking at schematics for Sony HDTVs many years ago and seeing they had unused RGBHV lines on the schematic. At the time, I wondered if it would be possible to "RGB mod" Sony HDTVs. Very cool to see those lines on the circuit board were actually used in China!

First, if I were you, I would try going into the service menu and setting "HDPT" to 0. This will disable processing on 33.75kHz signals.

Then you can see how it changes the picture at 1080i and 540p. You can create those as custom resolutions on a Windows PC. If you use a AMD or Nvidia card, I would try CRU (Custom Resolution Utility) to make them. I usually have good success with that.

Of course they will need to be slightly older GPUs that have DVI-I or VGA connectors for RGBHV

hey thx for the warm welcom.

i did try to look for the hdpt from my set, but i could not find it...

i suspect if it was for hdcp then i have no hdmi so i have no hdcp, there for no hdpt...


i did try to input pure 240p via rgbhv from a 15khz rig
it was sooooo bad.....

i played SoTN via ps3 , it was actually pretty decent via ps3 over component. no scanline though like everybody has mentioned earlier.


i had 540p created via cru recently, it is the same "position" as my 1080i setting which is very helpful, as i cant see myself tweaking the geo again any time soon...

it will be pretty cool to know if the 540p will bring good results if we get a custom 540p setting from gbs-c too.

in any case, this site is amazing, i guess even among serious retro gamers, few r like us haha

cheers

lee

[geargeeksp]

Yeah, that's the problem. You can do 540p with any GPU. But interlacing support was dropped for RTX and RDNA cards. So roughly anything made in 2019 or later won't do 1080i.

Well except one RDNA2 GPU: the one in the PS5. Sony made sure you could still use their old HDTVs.

But you're right, no reason it has to be a analog GPU, especially if you're willing to lose 1080i, since HDMI>VGA DACs are cheap and plentiful

my gpu is
280x 6g
380x 4g

tbh

280x 6g is as powerful as it gets with native analog output, but it is not very stable in win10....even i actually just needed 1080i, i use madvr for video...it goes black screen now and then too..i guess linux based solution will really be the ultimate solution, i do hope to play some emu with them too now and.then

[BazookaBen]

You could get a good scanline look by running games inside 540p with a scanline filter via emulator.

Of course, you'd have to use integer scale (1:2) so for a game like SotN, which is 224p, it would be doubled to a 448p window, thus not take up the full screen. You'd have to stretch the screen in the service menu to make it full screen (but maybe you can alter one of the TVs zoom modes to do this?)

[geargeeksp]

You could get a good scanline look by running games inside 540p with a scanline filter via emulator.

Of course, you'd have to use integer scale (1:2) so for a game like SotN, which is 224p, it would be doubled to a 448p window, thus not take up the full screen. You'd have to stretch the screen in the service menu to make it full screen (but maybe you can alter one of the TVs zoom modes to do this?)

i have quite a few of them, so it could be pretty interesting to mess with one set to have this 540p a bit streched to 480p kind of thing ~

thx a lot

[geargeeksp]

You could get a good scanline look by running games inside 540p with a scanline filter via emulator.

Of course, you'd have to use integer scale (1:2) so for a game like SotN, which is 224p, it would be doubled to a 448p window, thus not take up the full screen. You'd have to stretch the screen in the service menu to make it full screen (but maybe you can alter one of the TVs zoom modes to do this?)

actually one more question , I suspect, these 540p hdcrt, will be converting everything to 540p / 1080i before displaying

therefore its exp for games like ps2 is pretty bad ? rite? (compared to a 480p pc monitor)

Cheers

Lee

[geargeeksp]

You could get a good scanline look by running games inside 540p with a scanline filter via emulator.

Of course, you'd have to use integer scale (1:2) so for a game like SotN, which is 224p, it would be doubled to a 448p window, thus not take up the full screen. You'd have to stretch the screen in the service menu to make it full screen (but maybe you can alter one of the TVs zoom modes to do this?)

actually one more question , I suspect, these 540p hdcrt, will be converting everything to 540p / 1080i before displaying

therefore its exp for games like ps2 via component is pretty bad ? rite? (compared to a 480p pc crt monitor with some kind of converting~)

Cheers

Lee

[BazookaBen]

480p looks good on Sony TVs because it centers them in the 540p raster and zooms.

So it looks like true 480p.

But it has 1 frame of lag.

One problem with PS2 and PC CRT is you can't play all games at 480p, even with GS Mode Selector. Some have to played at 480i, which a PC CRT can't do

[geargeeksp]

480p looks good on Sony TVs because it centers them in the 540p raster and zooms.

So it looks like true 480p.

But it has 1 frame of lag.

One problem with PS2 and PC CRT is you can't play all games at 480p, even with GS Mode Selector. Some have to played at 480i, which a PC CRT can't do

i thought i made one reply earlier from my phone but whatever, this is pretty smart ~

now i think i am getting it ~

sony process everything at 540p, so if you have 480p input, then it will need to take the 480p, then "display it on a 540p mode" meaning , then raster and zooms, so we get one frame of lag
, this is with component / rgbhv or hdmi /dvi in your case.

i know all about the ps2 thing, I was just making the point of ps2 , cuz i used ps2 with my units , and they all look fairly bad, and i did not understand why, i think i am ok with the 1 frame lag if it is 480i input, but 480p input is no really cool, but yeah , like u have said, with rgbhv via pc using it as the 2ndary monitor only for 480p content will be a GREAT usage for those 4 by 3 sets like 32xbr800 if I am not misremembering the names.

in China it is called hr34 (4 by 3 one) hr36( 16 by 9 one) and hs34 (4 by 3) hs38 ( 4 by 3), i have hs38 , so if it can do 480p with true sharpness, it will be a great unit to keep~

thanks again for all the input, but i have to be sure again , is it true only for sony or it is the case for toshiba 1080i set as well ?

[kitty666cats]

I believe that HD Toshiba sets should do 480p properly, as well as 1080i too! That is the case with many non-Sony brands (like Panasonic as well)

[geargeeksp]

I believe that HD Toshiba sets should do 480p properly, as well as 1080i too! That is the case with many non-Sony brands (like Panasonic as well)

and it is ok with 480i content even ? that will be interesting haha

[geargeeksp]

I believe that HD Toshiba sets should do 480p properly, as well as 1080i too! That is the case with many non-Sony brands (like Panasonic as well)

what i have is the 36jw ( 34viewable ) , in china is the last gen of hdcrt from toshiba with d-sup (or d sub... can't remember haha )