Pal/NTSC differences

[Gorecki]

I was just wondering if either format can be classified as the "definitive" format. I live in England and have been playing PAL games in 50hz my entire life, but just now I fired up Gradius V in 60hz and was shocked by the differences. The obvious one is increased speed. Is this the speed the developers intended the game to run in? What made me wonder was the cutscene at the start of level 2, where the voiceover sounded like it had been crammed in, like the game is running too fast and they need to fit it all in before the action starts again. Although it might seem that way as I'm used to it running in 50hz.

There are other differences as well. Certain attacks (like the big spammy circles of bullets that those wall-rolling spheres shoot out in level 3) seem less severe in NTSC, maybe because they are more dangerous due to the speed. And when the level 1 boss warps in, there's a cool wave effect that ripples the entire screen... this doesn't happen in 50hz.

One last question: Is playing a PAL game in 60hz essentially the same as playing an NTSC game? I'm suddenly worried that all the games I own are slower, easier versions of the "purebreed" NTSC versions

[D]

I was just wondering if either format can be classified as the "definitive" format. I live in England and have been playing PAL games in 50hz my entire life, but just now I fired up Gradius V in 60hz and was shocked by the differences. The obvious one is increased speed. Is this the speed the developers intended the game to run in? What made me wonder was the cutscene at the start of level 2, where the voiceover sounded like it had been crammed in, like the game is running too fast and they need to fit it all in before the action starts again. Although it might seem that way as I'm used to it running in 50hz.

There are other differences as well. Certain attacks (like the big spammy circles of bullets that those wall-rolling spheres shoot out in level 3) seem less severe in NTSC, maybe because they are more dangerous due to the speed. And when the level 1 boss warps in, there's a cool wave effect that ripples the entire screen... this doesn't happen in 50hz.

One last question: Is playing a PAL game in 60hz essentially the same as playing an NTSC game? I'm suddenly worried that all the games I own are slower, easier versions of the "purebreed" NTSC versions

50 hz sucks!
Also get a REAL RGB scart cable for great sharp image quality
www.ntsc-uk.com

[sjewkestheloon]

pretty much all 50hz game are easier than the 60hz couterpart, and i personally wouldn't submit a score gained in 50hz.

sometimes the change can be astronomical, especially in something like g-darius which just feels 100% more fun when the patterns fly at you like shit off a shovel.

for me when it comes to anything playstation and onwards and shmup, it's 60hz or nothing. as much as i love strikers 1 and 2 i just won't play them in their pal incarnation anymore as i found my skills to be sorely lacking when i switched to mame for a few plays.

[FatCobra]

PAL Gamers = Shafted Gamers, IMHO.

They pretty much have to import everything because they ain't got jack!

(engages anti-flame shield)

[fl0w]

yeah but they got scart and rgb :p

[FatCobra]

yeah but they got scart and rgb :p

WTF are those?

[Kron]

America - Land of the composite.

[Ghegs]

Moved to Hardware.

One might argue PAL gamers are actually in more advantageous position when it comes to shmups - unless you're in Japan you have to import them anyway and we got the ease of scart and RGB.

Is this the speed the developers intended the game to run in?

One last question: Is playing a PAL game in 60hz essentially the same as playing an NTSC game? I'm suddenly worried that all the games I own are slower, easier versions of the "purebreed" NTSC versions Razz

60hz is the standard outside Europe, and so developers of Gradius V (and pretty much every console game out there nowadays) were working with that, which makes that the correct speed of the game.

50hz is around because that's still the standard in Europe, though all TVs manufactured in the last 10 or so years support it. There are already few PAL games that absolutely require a 60hz-capable TV (Metroid Prime 2, for example) and won't even work in 50hz.

And yes, a PAL game running in 60hz is the exact same thing as an NTSC game.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

America - Land of the composite.

For Kron,

America - Land of the composite video, S-Video, Component Video, DVI & HDMI inputs.

Japan - Land of the composite video, S-Video, Component Video, D-Terminal, Japanese RGB, DVI & Japanese HDMI.

Europe - Land of the composite video, S-Video, Component Video, DVI, RGB & Scart. (Am I missing any other Euro A/V connections?)

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[icycalm]

Europe has HDMI too.

Also, Scart should not be on that list. Scart is not a new connection type--it's just a plug.

You have Scart-Composite, Scart-SVHS or Scart-RGB varieties.

[elvis]

PAL Gamers = Shafted Gamers, IMHO.

They pretty much have to import everything because they ain't got jack!

(engages anti-flame shield)

No flames here. I've lived in Australia my whole life (PAL territory), and you're bang on the money. We get only shit mainstream titles, and everything runs at 50Hz slow motion with squashed images and ugly back borders.

I remember as a kid being a huge Street Fighter II fan, and finally getting my hand on the SNES copy. It was like the characters were midgets fighting in a bucket of syrup! Meanwhile all my rich mates were laughing at me with there ludicrously expensive Sony RGB TVs and import Japanese consoles running full-sized, full-speed games.

Only in the last few years have TVs being released here been multi-region (PAL/NTSC/SECAM), and developers are offering 50/60Hz selects at the beginning of games roughly 25% of the time (more often than not in titles I really couldn't give a shit about).

If you're a serious gamer living in a PAL territory: import. Luckily in this day and age with the advent of cheap online stores, importing is not an unreasonable alternative. I only recently picked up a second hand PS2 for around AU$100 (US$75), and modded it. My entire PS2 library has been bought from overseas, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

505GameStreet should be commended for their efforts, but even so they are often 6+ months out of date. If they had a better release schedule on their site, I would at least know which games to wait for locally, and which games to import. But unfortunately as it stands they offer no such thing. I still recommend to mates that they buy 505 games if they enjoy playing import stuff at my place. I'd love to see 505 grow to the point where simultaneous (or at least short delay) PAL release (with 60Hz options) become a reality for us PAL folk.

[Gorecki]

Thanks for all the info guys. I guess that having RGB Scart is nice, but I think having a game run at the proper speed is far more important than picture quality, especially so with shmups (which is pretty much all I play anymore, surprise surprise).

I think I'm gonna have to start importing. I'm particularly unimpressed by the UK Shikigami no Shiro 2, which is completely devoid of the cutscenes and also only runs in 50hz.

Here's hoping that the rumours of a region-free PS3 become a reality, that'll make things a whole lot simpler.

[neorichieb1971]

PS3 is more than likely going to be import friendly on in house Sony titles only.

A bit like the 360 situation. Its not set in stone at the moment, but thats the way it looks like its going.

[elvis]

PS3 is more than likely going to be import friendly on in house Sony titles only.

A bit like the 360 situation. Its not set in stone at the moment, but thats the way it looks like its going.

Have you got any links that say similar? Everything I've read thus far indicates the opposite. Region encoding seems to be entirely at the developer's preference. Small time houses like Cave etc will most likely just avoid it all together to save on time and effort, and thus by default be more import friendly. That's the word I'm getting from a few developer mates here in Australia working on some PS3 titles, at any rate.

[neorichieb1971]

Sony's origonal claim was that PS3 will have no capability of region encoding, meaning all 3rd parties would have to put up with a global free market.

However, about 40% of the 3rd party studios did not like the idea and stated that Sony should implement region encoding with the 3rd parties themselves given the choice of wether to use it or not.


So what you say is true. Its still possible 3rd parties will opt not to use it. But if 40% or so say they wanted it, it will be used.

[azmun]

Thanks for all the info guys. I guess that having RGB Scart is nice, but I think having a game run at the proper speed is far more important than picture quality, especially so with shmups (which is pretty much all I play anymore, surprise surprise).

How about having the best of both worlds? I use NTSC gaming systems with RGB SCART connection.

[elvis]

Sony's origonal claim was that PS3 will have no capability of region encoding, meaning all 3rd parties would have to put up with a global free market.

However, about 40% of the 3rd party studios did not like the idea and stated that Sony should implement region encoding with the 3rd parties themselves given the choice of wether to use it or not.


So what you say is true. Its still possible 3rd parties will opt not to use it. But if 40% or so say they wanted it, it will be used.

I would say that bigger mainstream companies (EA, etc) will most likely implement it. They want tight control on pre-region releases, and they want to keep their local distributors happy.

I pray that small/niche people like Cave etc don't bother. Region encoding for them is pointless, as they only officially release in NTSC -J regions anyway. Keeping their games region free will ensure that they pick up an extra 5% sales from import-savvy westerners without needing to take the risk of a non-Japanese release.

[neorichieb1971]

I'm thinking JP and USA might share one region code and Europe/Australia will definately be NOT compatible. Square Enix USA don't care about FFXXXXX coming out on JP release first because for 99.9% of the rest of the world cannot understand Kanji.

The problem resides in the English speaking nations primarily and this would have been the focus of the 40% that wanted it.

So it might work out where Cave titles may work on a US machine, but not on a European or Australian unit.


BR movies are region encoded for JP/USA sharing one code I believe, it makes sense they will use this formula for games too. Europe shares the same code as Africa and Australia, or was it Russia.. Can't remember anyhow if games take the same route Europe will get shafted again!