Will extron RGB 109xi let me use my pc on my bvm-20g1u?

[Modular511]

I may snag one of these off ebay like so and was wondering if what i understand is correct, I wanna use my rtx 3070/modern pc to play retroarch on my my bvm at 15khz/240p, if what i understand is correct - I should be able to use a custom firmware gbs control (already have) and this and a simple displayport to vga to get going, right?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275373655350?h ... R5ilwISrYg

[jd213]

I believe that will work. A video card with VGA output and CRT_emudriver should also work.

[Modular511]

I believe that will work. A video card with VGA output and CRT_emudriver should also work.

Is the extron route overkill comparatively? Because i also need to get my Dreamcast working over vga on the same set, with the same scaler, it seemed the overall easier of the two options because I have a 7 litre sff pc and don't have space for a second gpu lol.

[jd213]

I'm not too familiar with the details but I think it's generally easier to get 240p/480i out of a card with VGA output.
Other than that, the Extron would probably be less of a hassle, and should indeed work for the DC. It also wouldn't be too big of a financial investment.
Might be a good idea to look around for more info before deciding, though.

[Modular511]

I'm not too familiar with the details but I think it's generally easier to get 240p/480i out of a card with VGA output.
Other than that, the Extron would probably be less of a hassle, and should indeed work for the DC. It also wouldn't be too big of a financial investment.
Might be a good idea to look around for more info before deciding, though.

I figure the extron is under $30 shipped, new in box, id assume thatsba good spend if my main monitor only does 15khz. The resolution isnt the problem, even modern Nvidia cards can seemingly use custom resolutions, if i understand correctly it needs a sync combiner to work, which above does and then some, yes? I appreciate the input, besides here idk where to even ask questions besides some fb groups, which are just mostly tools flipping tvs than answers lol.

[jd213]

Well I believe some have reported problems when using a modern card + DAC, regardless of the sync, and so some advice I've seen was something along the lines of "just get an old card with analog output, it's less of a hassle." But I'm not an expert, so hopefully someone else can chime in.

[Modular511]

Well I believe some have reported problems when using a modern card + DAC, regardless of the sync, and so some advice I've seen was something along the lines of "just get an old card with analog output, it's less of a hassle." But I'm not an expert, so hopefully someone else can chime in.

I have read much the same on places like reddit, but I also have seen folks just have it work out, Like this is a device thats similiar to what im after, right? https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... ted_to_my/

It Probably is easier with the drivers and an old gpu, but I don't have space for one, another user on fb group told me about the 109xi for Dreamcast and then it seemed like it'll also work on pc, most people would definitely be more into the gpu, but its doubly useful for me (it seems) I appreciate you even chiming in, I am after opinions here as well afterall !

[orange808]

AFAIK, recent Nvidia cards don't output 15KHz. You'll need to output 480p and use a downscaler. Custom timings won't get you any signals "below" 480p at the correct ~50Hz-~60Hz refresh rates.

With some effort, you can get something that's playable on screen using 480p and a downscaler. If you want minimum latency, you need to use GBS Control. By default, the GBS Control design doesn't downscale RGBHV properly and it doesn't output RGBS. So, you need a DAC to get RGBHV from the computer, sync combiner to get RGBS, GBS Control to downscale and output RGBHV, and a sync combiner to get RGBS. With some effort, you can get a playable experience doing that.

Could also use a Corio2 if you're comfortable with lag that's similar to Framemeister. There are C2 units that accept digital and output analog on "universal" ports that use the DVI pinout. If you get the right C2 unit and route audio separately, a C2 should be able to accept DVI (using a cheap HDMI to DVI adapter) and output RGBS (using a cheap "DVI" to DE-15/HD-15 adapter and a DE-15/HD-15 to BNC cable). No framelock, but you will probably already have some frame pacing issues from the PC, because you can't use VRR.

There's also Retrotink5x if you'd like to use a DAC and sync combiner in front of the machine AND a DAC and sync combiner afterwards. That would be expensive.

You might consider building a MiSTer if you're determined to emulate. Although, I understand the desire to use MAME. Arcade FPGA emulation will need a decade or more to catch MAME.

[Modular511]

AFAIK, recent Nvidia cards don't output 15KHz. You'll need to output 480p and use a downscaler. Custom timings won't get you any signals "below" 480p at the correct ~50Hz-~60Hz refresh rates.

With some effort, you can get something that's playable on screen using 480p and a downscaler. If you want minimum latency, you need to use GBS Control. By default, the GBS Control design doesn't downscale RGBHV properly and it doesn't output RGBS. So, you need a DAC to get RGBHV from the computer, sync combiner to get RGBS, GBS Control to downscale and output RGBHV, and a sync combiner to get RGBS. With some effort, you can get a playable experience doing that.

Could also use a Corio2 if you're comfortable with lag that's similar to Framemeister. There are C2 units that accept digital and output analog on "universal" ports that use the DVI pinout. If you get the right C2 unit and route audio separately, a C2 should be able to accept DVI (using a cheap HDMI to DVI adapter) and output RGBS (using a cheap "DVI" to DE-15/HD-15 adapter and a DE-15/HD-15 to BNC cable).

There's also Retrotink5x if you'd like to use a DAC and sync combiner in front of the machine AND a DAC and sync combiner afterwards.

Will it work with what i linked and the gbsc i said i have? I'm pretty sure you just told me yes like three times, but then started recommending other items lol I am on disability, I don't have a ton of extra cash all that stuff over $100 is out unless anyone is feeling generous lol, A user on reddit (multiple in fact - see this post https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... ted_to_my/) are using devices like this to make it work, So will it work then? (I have the modified gbsc in question, I was told that I'd be able to use the extron 109xi and gbsc to play Dreamcast downscaled from 480p, It would also work for my pc with RetroArch, right?

[orange808]

AFAIK, recent Nvidia cards don't output 15KHz. You'll need to output 480p and use a downscaler. Custom timings won't get you any signals "below" 480p at the correct ~50Hz-~60Hz refresh rates.

With some effort, you can get something that's playable on screen using 480p and a downscaler. If you want minimum latency, you need to use GBS Control. By default, the GBS Control design doesn't downscale RGBHV properly and it doesn't output RGBS. So, you need a DAC to get RGBHV from the computer, sync combiner to get RGBS, GBS Control to downscale and output RGBHV, and a sync combiner to get RGBS. With some effort, you can get a playable experience doing that.

Could also use a Corio2 if you're comfortable with lag that's similar to Framemeister. There are C2 units that accept digital and output analog on "universal" ports that use the DVI pinout. If you get the right C2 unit and route audio separately, a C2 should be able to accept DVI (using a cheap HDMI to DVI adapter) and output RGBS (using a cheap "DVI" to DE-15/HD-15 adapter and a DE-15/HD-15 to BNC cable).

There's also Retrotink5x if you'd like to use a DAC and sync combiner in front of the machine AND a DAC and sync combiner afterwards.

Will it work with what i linked and the gbsc i said i have? I'm pretty sure you just told me yes like three times, but then started recommending other items lol I am on disability, I don't have a ton of extra cash all that stuff over $100 is out unless anyone is feeling generous lol, A user on reddit (multiple in fact - see this post https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... ted_to_my/) are using devices like this to make it work, So will it work then? (I have the modified gbsc in question, I was told that I'd be able to use the extron 109xi and gbsc to play Dreamcast downscaled from 480p, It would also work for my pc with RetroArch, right?

If you use a DAC and sync combiner in front of the GBSC, it should work with the Extron RGB.

You're headed for another pitfall. The DAC situation is a rabbit hole right now. The best units are no longer available. Although, you have the option to shop displayport to RGBHV. Maybe there's still some good ones.

[Modular511]

AFAIK, recent Nvidia cards don't output 15KHz. You'll need to output 480p and use a downscaler. Custom timings won't get you any signals "below" 480p at the correct ~50Hz-~60Hz refresh rates.

With some effort, you can get something that's playable on screen using 480p and a downscaler. If you want minimum latency, you need to use GBS Control. By default, the GBS Control design doesn't downscale RGBHV properly and it doesn't output RGBS. So, you need a DAC to get RGBHV from the computer, sync combiner to get RGBS, GBS Control to downscale and output RGBHV, and a sync combiner to get RGBS. With some effort, you can get a playable experience doing that.

Could also use a Corio2 if you're comfortable with lag that's similar to Framemeister. There are C2 units that accept digital and output analog on "universal" ports that use the DVI pinout. If you get the right C2 unit and route audio separately, a C2 should be able to accept DVI (using a cheap HDMI to DVI adapter) and output RGBS (using a cheap "DVI" to DE-15/HD-15 adapter and a DE-15/HD-15 to BNC cable).

There's also Retrotink5x if you'd like to use a DAC and sync combiner in front of the machine AND a DAC and sync combiner afterwards.

Will it work with what i linked and the gbsc i said i have? I'm pretty sure you just told me yes like three times, but then started recommending other items lol I am on disability, I don't have a ton of extra cash all that stuff over $100 is out unless anyone is feeling generous lol, A user on reddit (multiple in fact - see this post https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... ted_to_my/) are using devices like this to make it work, So will it work then? (I have the modified gbsc in question, I was told that I'd be able to use the extron 109xi and gbsc to play Dreamcast downscaled from 480p, It would also work for my pc with RetroArch, right?

If you use a DAC and sync combiner in front of the GBSC, it should work with the Extron RGB.

You're headed for another pitfall. The DAC situation is a rabbit hole right now. The best units are no longer available.

The reddit post i linked has a gentleman using only the rgb 109 xi and his rtx 2070 to output 15khz, I mainly want very basic snes emulation and stuff, and the ability to output kodi -I understand arcade is nowhere near ready, and I have a 360 and ps2 for my accurate shmups

[orange808]

The reddit post i linked has a gentleman using only the rgb 109 xi and his rtx 2070 to output 15khz

Well, that's the trouble with reddit .

AFAIK, RTX 2070 cards have no analog output at all. The last holdout was Displayport analog support with a passive adapter, but that ended before the RTX series.

[Modular511]

The reddit post i linked has a gentleman using only the rgb 109 xi and his rtx 2070 to output 15khz

Well, that's the trouble with reddit .

AFAIK, RTX 2070 cards have no analog output at all. The last holdout was Displayport analog support with a passive adapter, but that ended before the RTX series.

*Le sigh* yeah I did come here to get PROPER advice lol Is there a chance the 109 xi does dac/sync combiner stuff? Its manual mentions sync combining? I am wondering if maybe that is also a dac/sync combiner/stripper and it will work lol I thought the same but then see lots of folks on reddit seemingly getting situations going, I kinda miss when all my google results didn't just mostly search reddit x_x I dont have nuch extra cash, whats passable for now that you know would accomplish this?

[SGGG2]

Pick up an old graphics card, or softmod a Wii for 240p RetroArch (assuming component is a viable input). Don’t bother with complicated signal chains unless there no option, or you already own most of the necessary hardware.

[Modular511]

Pick up an old graphics card, or softmod a Wii for 240p RetroArch (assuming component is a viable input). Don’t bother with complicated signal chains unless there no option, or you already own most of the necessary hardware.

Okay so which low profile/no external power gpu would you say to get? I have to realize i have spare parts and can just make something lol my pc uses a 7 litre case, its less than 1/3 the size of an average midtower, so I can't put it in my main.

[SGGG2]

How am I supposed to know what PC case you have? Use whatever you want, man.

[Modular511]

How am I supposed to know what PC case you have? Use whatever you want, man.

My bad, I posted this multiple places and thought that I stated it above in a reply, Anyways - which gpu would you suggest for cost/performance? No external power is ideal

[BazookaBen]

Calamity has a list of supported GPUs on his forum where you download CRT Emudriver.

If your goal is to play emulators and/or modern 2D pixel art games, basically any DX11 GPU will do the trick. Even low-end GPUs from 2010 will barely break 20% utilization, if that. If you want Vulkan+Dx12 as well, the R5 240 can be had for $9 on ebay.

CRT Emudriver is simultaneously the cheapest and the best way to play low res games on a 15kHz CRT. So put the Extron aside for some other project, you don't need it for this

[Modular511]

Calamity has a list of supported GPUs on his forum where you download CRT Emudriver.

If your goal is to play emulators and/or modern 2D pixel art games, basically any DX11 GPU will do the trick. Even low-end GPUs from 2010 will barely break 20% utilization, if that. If you want Vulkan+Dx12 as well, the R5 240 can be had for $9 on ebay.

CRT Emudriver is simultaneously the cheapest and the best way to play low res games on a 15kHz CRT. So put the Extron aside for some other project, you don't need it for this

I will maybe wanna pump super meat boy and Cuphead over, is that good maxed at such a low resolution? Lol

[BazookaBen]

I will maybe wanna pump super meat boy and Cuphead over, is that good maxed at such a low resolution? Lol

Those games are both HD.

I'm more interested in 240-line resolution games like Sonic Mania, Blazing Chrome, Shovel Knight (this one might actually be 224, I haven't played it yet), Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon, and so on.

Once you determine their true native resolution (i.e. 427x240 for Blazing Chrome, 400x240 for Bloodstained CotM1), you then make that as a custom resolution

That said, Cuphead does look good at 480i.

If you think about it, TVs in the 40's and 50's were 480i as well. So those Cuphead's visuals are pefectly at home with interlaced output

You also want to use Special K's Latent Sync +100% delay bias when possible. Gets lag down to nothing, like a proper old school system

[Modular511]

I will maybe wanna pump super meat boy and Cuphead over, is that good maxed at such a low resolution? Lol

Those games are both HD.

I'm more interested in 240-line resolution games like Sonic Mania, Blazing Chrome, Shovel Knight (this one might actually be 224, I haven't played it yet), Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon, and so on.

Once you determine their true native resolution (i.e. 427x240 for Blazing Chrome, 400x240 for Bloodstained CotM1), you then make that as a custom resolution

That said, Cuphead does look good at 480i.

If you think about it, TVs in the 40's and 50's were 480i as well. So those Cuphead's visuals are pefectly at home with interlaced output

You also want to use Special K's Latent Sync +100% delay bias when possible. Gets lag down to nothing, like a proper old school system

So the r5 240 is CHEAP, do you by chance know the "best" option performance wise? I am on fixed income, but I apparently can shop here like a baller lolol will it not matter @ 480? Excited to do that and kodi!

[BazookaBen]

Like I said, "best" is irrelevant if you're just using this for emulation and 2D games. Even Cuphead ran at full speed at 480i on the HD 5450 I used to have, and that was maybe half the speed of the GPU in a Xbox 360

I mean, you can look at TechPowerUp and compare all the all the Radeon GPU models for yourself, if you want to delve deeper and pick the absolute "best GPU" for your situation. Which will differ exactly zero in the final experience you get because, as I said, even the 10 year old budget GPUs run circles around these 2D games and don't even cross 20% utilization in most instances

What I will say is make sure you get a GPU with analog output, so you don't have to buy a HDMI converter that acts up at low resolutions

[Lord of Pirates]

So the r5 240 is CHEAP, do you by chance know the "best" option performance wise? I am on fixed income, but I apparently can shop here like a baller lolol will it not matter @ 480? Excited to do that and kodi!

As Bazooka says, you can look at TPU's GPU database and make comparisons based on the specs. For around $10 I don't think it's worth taking the time.

[SGGG2]

You can maybe see if you can squeeze another card inside the case, or just outside, with a PCIE riser or a M2 to PCIE adapter if you have a spare slot. Might be better (and cheaper) to source a used case locally.

[SuperSpongo]

I used a cheap Radeon HD 7450 in one of my low profile Groovemama builds. People seem to scrap them from old office PCs and sell them for a couple of bucks on ebay.