Credit Limit = Beneficial?

[SFKhoa]

I've noticed something while playing a variety of games that either have credit limit or it doesn't.

I can't seem to improve on certain games as fast if there's unlimited credits. For the games that do have credit limit, I tend to improve a lot faster, since it actually gives you motivation to play the game more and more to try to progress as fast as you can.

There's Samidare on EXTRA STAGE. It's a 1-credit only mode. I sucked so bad at the the beginning and since there was no continues, I felt the need to get better so I can see what's ahead, and at the process, you start developing a sense of strategy much faster. Same thing applies to Mushihimesama Arrange Mode, and the Extra Stages in the Touhou series.

There's also Gradius V. Since the credit limit raises each hour, I tend to die more because knowing I have additional credit, I actually start playing more recklessly. If I were to not save each time and leave Gradius V with only 3 credits, I would improve a lot faster.

Do credit limit affect your progress/improvement on shmups? If it does, how so?

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmm...I like to be able to restart from a set point (the equivalent of "restart from last checkpoint" in a 3D action game). That works best for me in some games.

[Icarus]

Self-limitation of available credits is a far more important training ability than software-limited credits.

[Damocles]

Self-limitation of available credits is a far more important training ability than software-limited credits.

Indeed. I learn nothing if I use more than one credit.

[FatCobra]

So the motto is: DO NOT CONTINUE!!

[SFKhoa]

Sometimes, one can be tempted to want to continue though. Not like I do, but it just doesn't feel as great when I force myself not to coninue and the extra credits are obviously there.

Having a credit limit will motivate the average gamer to do better. Probably.

[sjewkestheloon]

i can honestly say that credit limits do not bother me in the slightest, unless the game is seriously hard as hell and i want to, 30 hours into playing it, finally see the end. then i'll credit feed my ass off to see the conclusion etc.

but most of the time i play for score and competitive purposes to more than say 3 credits is very rare and probably 95% of the time i just use one.

[Axon]

Sometimes, one can be tempted to want to continue though. Not like I do, but it just doesn't feel as great when I force myself not to coninue and the extra credits are obviously there.

Having a credit limit will motivate the average gamer to do better. Probably.

I know I'm going to sound like an idiot but I think there should be more games with bomb limits or no bombs at all. All my friend did while playing DDP was bomb until he died, if there was a limit or no bombs he would've had to actually think about what he was doing. He loves challenging games though, he just used the bomb because it was there and wiped out everything. I know it is extreme but I think it would make the average joe appreciate shmups and try a serious play of whatever shmup.

[GunSpike]

Yes, it certainly does. Having infinite continues can make you lax! Think about it this way: when you go to the arcade, pop in a few quarters in your favorite shmup (or other game), don't you play with everything you've got? When you play in the arcade, you pull out all the stops, trying your hardest to get as far as you can. Just do the same at home. Limit yourself to one set of lives, or turn off continues if possible (I know in some PCBs this is possible, like DaiOuJou). And when playing Gradius, if you don't need to play it on the hardest difficulty, just play on Score Attack mode. You only get one set of lives, so continues don't even factor in. Trust me, it'll really improve your game if you do so.

[BulletMagnet]

Self-limitation of available credits is a far more important training ability than software-limited credits.

I hafta agree there...if you find you learn faster when you don't continue, then, well, don't continue. Not that I'm a strictly "one credit or bust" kind of player, but I never quite understood how some players seem to have no ability to limit the amount of credits they use without the game doing it for them.

[Ganelon]

I think the programmers should limit credits (preferrably 0 continues allowed, although this is almost never the case) and/or always use checkpoints after continues (preferrably after every life as well and spaced far apart, like 1 or 2 a stage). That way, crappy players don't get to see the game's ending. Well, either that or give them a bad text ending and tell them to 1CC the game for the real ending.

However, credit limitations don't affect my performance since I'm accustomed to just letting the timer run down every time I see it. And so should you be if you always go for the 1CC. Of course, limits may be useful for folks who have a weak will in doing stuff like that, as well as for idiotic game reviewers who think that "infinite credits+on the spot restart=too easy."

[SFKhoa]

Sometimes, one can be tempted to want to continue though. Not like I do, but it just doesn't feel as great when I force myself not to coninue and the extra credits are obviously there.

Having a credit limit will motivate the average gamer to do better. Probably.

I know I'm going to sound like an idiot but I think there should be more games with bomb limits or no bombs at all. All my friend did while playing DDP was bomb until he died, if there was a limit or no bombs he would've had to actually think about what he was doing. He loves challenging games though, he just used the bomb because it was there and wiped out everything. I know it is extreme but I think it would make the average joe appreciate shmups and try a serious play of whatever shmup.

in DDP:DOJ, using Exy gives you 1-2 bombs at max.

[Ko.oS]

usually i improve the fastest in games that are well emulated (yea, you know why). stage select options are nice too. as for the topic, i prefer games with no credit limit, because that way i have the option to choose (hope you get what i mean).

I think the programmers should limit credits (preferrably 0 continues allowed, although this is almost never the case)

the only games i can think of rite now are gradIII arc, DOJ (original), ps2 doj boss rush mode and ps2 espg arrange. IIRC some old konami games let you continue but only until the final stage, then when its game over its game over (thundercross or xexex). according to the ST gemini wings throws you back to the start of the penultimate stage if you die in the last one.

...

[GaijinPunch]

I don't like the checkpoint method in shooting... not having it it adds a dynamic of knowing where you can and can't sacrifice a life. If someone wants to credit feed a game and never touch it again, let him do it. I'll sit around and try to perfect my score.

I think the days of no continues are over.

[Dave_K.]

Hence, my signiture...

[JBC]

Tool assisting is a fairly good tactic for improving at shmups that have some form of pattern memorization without having to annoy yourself by starting over due to cheap death. In alot of games like Gradius you just plain can't avoid death without already having prior knowlege of the levels.

Take Garegga for instance - a manic shmup that mostly relies on skill but makes exceptions at certain points. When you first reach the stage 3 boss he begins firing so close to the bottom of the screen that his shots are to close together to weave through until he backs up halfway. If this is your first time playing Garegga all the skill in the world won't save you there. You have to know to move in a slow pendelum swing right at the edge of his shots until all six turret sections are destroyed.

Basically what i do to learn a game in Mame is save state at the beginning of every level - and then beat said level without dying. If i die, even once - i restart the whole level. I have to complete the game in one sitting. If i stop playing then the next time i make myself start over from the beginning as not to lose practice of the earlier levels. In the end this will really hone your understanding of each level more accuratley than just a flyby and you'll one day pick up the game and make it all the way to the end before you realize you haven't died even once.

Basically it just removes the annoyance factor of constantly having to play the first 2 levels (of which i almost never die in in any shmup, anyway).

[iatneH]

My Psyvariar 2 and Ibara save files are configured to instant game over. So I can restart without having to wait for the timer to count down (or mash the fire button to make the timer count down faster).

I am so hardcore now.

[Acid King]

I like having unlimited continues. When I want to I can blast through the game and see what it has to offer, I can self limit my continues so I can work on my score and when I play with a friend who sucks the game can remain fun since they can always just feed credits.

[Twiddle]

For most gamers today, I think credits should only increase to a maximum of 9, not Free Play. It will force them to learn how to play the game to some capacity.

For people here, you all just have to learn to be happy with the first credit being the only credit.

[JBC]

Actually i just realized if you have the homing ships on your side then the stage 3 boss' first wave of attacks isn't so bad and you can manuever through it easier than the pendelum tact i was talking about earlier... at least in the Jap version...

[Twiddle]

Actually i just realized if you have the homing ships on your side then the stage 3 boss' first wave of attacks isn't so bad and you can manuever through it easier than the pendelum tact i was talking about earlier... at least in the Jap version...

75% of the time though this isn't the case

[SFKhoa]

The arcade that I frequent a lot, ALL the shmups in there are set to no continues.

[Twiddle]

That's got to be a really cool arcade

[Icarus]

100% of the time though this isn't the case

Fixed.
Especially if you make use of the little 'hiding spot' for Garegga's stage3 boss' first form.

[JBC]

Hiding spot?

[SFKhoa]

That's got to be a really cool arcade

Probably not, for must shmups, the difficulty is bumped up, and number of lives is only two instead of the usual three. *shakes fist at Raiden DX*

[Icarus]

Hiding spot?

Player: Icarus // Garegga, Stage 3 Boss, First Form, 'Hiding Spot' (DIVX - 4MB)

[Twiddle]

100% of the time though this isn't the case

Fixed.
Especially if you make use of the little 'hiding spot' for Garegga's stage3 boss' first form.

Doing that bumps my rank about 250k

so i prefer to just dodge it

Mass bullet cancelling by the dead zone is really, really horrible if you are pretty desperate to control rank

[Twiddle]

That's got to be a really cool arcade

Probably not, for must shmups, the difficulty is bumped up, and number of lives is only two instead of the usual three. *shakes fist at Raiden DX*

Are you serious? TWO lives instead of 3?

What the fuck.

[Icarus]

Doing that bumps my rank about 250k

so i prefer to just dodge it

Y'know, before you and AWJ hacked Garegga's rank system to pieces and discovered that little tidbit, I was happily oblivious to the rank increase due to that technique.

Nowadays I still do it for the fun of it. ^_-

Better to make use of whatever techniques you have to stay alive, and make up the ground in a later section, ne? ^_-

(Alternatively you can either circle the boss, or suicide your way past it ^_-)

Probably not, for must shmups, the difficulty is bumped up, and number of lives is only two instead of the usual three. *shakes fist at Raiden DX*

Wow, an arcade for the hardcore.

Can't imagine how hard Raiden DX would be with only two default lives. Might have to give it a go, though. ^_-