As I mentioned in my reply to Steamflogger I don't accuse the game of being outright unbeatable without additional materials, but the fact that it very openly and deliberately hid how a number of its own elements work, up to and including some of your characters' abilities, and wasn't satisfied pushing just a guide but also a subscription service for players who wanted to fill in the gaps, way back in the PS1 era, simply never sat right with me. Again, I would never suggest that anyone who enjoyed the game put aside everything they like about it in favor of griping about this aspect as I tend to do, but that kind of behavior on Square's part, pioneered and thus embodied within this particular game, really did put me off back in the day, and still does.Sumez wrote:What? I never used any kind of guides or stuff for FF9 when it came out, and managed just fine. It's an extremely linear and gated experience that holds your hand the entire way, so I'm confused about where you got your impression from.
Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
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BulletMagnet
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Ok but I still have no clue what you are talking about
Seems like you're being intentionally vague.
Seems like you're being intentionally vague.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
I have never played Final Fantasy, but I would fuck ALL the white girls SAME TIME while the homo protagonist cries & jerks off in the corner.
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Steamflogger Boss
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Good thing we have BIL to get the thread back on track.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Based as fuck.BIL wrote:I have never played Final Fantasy
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
haha what about the black gir-BIL wrote:I have never played Final Fantasy, but I would fuck ALL the white girls SAME TIME while the homo protagonist cries & jerks off in the corner.
... oh
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
My first Final Fantasy was Dirge of Cerberus.
I dont know why I played that game as hard as I did. Or why I...even rented it.
But I beat it like it stole something. I remember it having so many secrets and I scrounged for all of them.
I dont know why I played that game as hard as I did. Or why I...even rented it.
But I beat it like it stole something. I remember it having so many secrets and I scrounged for all of them.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
BIL wrote:I have never played Final Fantasy, but I would fuck ALL the white girls SAME TIME while the homo protagonist cries & jerks off in the corner.
Das it mayne
This post is a work of fiction.
Any similarity to actual heaven-piercing erections, real or imagined, is purely coincidental.
Of all the FFs to no-context, Dirge sure is a potent one I went in knowing nothing about the FF7-thology and came out understanding even less.XoPachi wrote:My first Final Fantasy was Dirge of Cerberus.
I dont know why I played that game as hard as I did. Or why I...even rented it.
But I beat it like it stole something. I remember it having so many secrets and I scrounged for all of them.
Still, I had fun. How much of that was down to going through a massive goth phase is unclear, but I have my suspicions.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Returning to FF7R after FF15 is like exhaling after choking in a burning building.
7R is railroaded to Hell and has it's own shortcomings but God, it's just fun and just feels great to play. The bosses in this game were so intense and everything just felt so powerful and snappy.
7R is railroaded to Hell and has it's own shortcomings but God, it's just fun and just feels great to play. The bosses in this game were so intense and everything just felt so powerful and snappy.
I'm really trying to remember what prompted me to rent this because Final Fantasy was one of those mystifying series I had no clue about as an 11 year old. I had always heard it in name, but not even in sweeping massive praise. I just remember the off comment about it or seeing it parodied in stuff online like The Decline of Video Gaming or Legendary Frog during the ancient, budding flash animation scene of early 2000's NewGrounds. I guess the back of the case was enticing to me as someone who grew up on shooters. For some reason as a kid, I assumed it'd be like TimeSplitters, Turok, or Perfect Dark. It was of course absolutely none of that but I stuck with it.Lander wrote:Of all the FFs to no-context, Dirge sure is a potent one I went in knowing nothing about the FF7-thology and came out understanding even less.
Still, I had fun. How much of that was down to going through a massive goth phase is unclear, but I have my suspicions.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
I'm old. Wtf are kids spouting on twitter about "JRPG" being a racist term? Wtf is up with this being the result of japanese developers thinking western journalists and developers are the same as their fans in the west - a misunderstanding going back almost two decades? My fucking head
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Don't worry about it. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda and back 1500 times before the sun explodes.
Don't worry about it. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda and back 1500 times before the sun explodes.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Haha, Yoshi-P >_<
The language and cultural barrier is very slightly amusing. People getting mad at shadows is core to the human condition.
Is "JRPG" really worse than "Dragon Quest clone"? If you want people to stop calling your games Dragon Quest clones, maybe stop cloning Dragon Quest. Make a different game.
.... oh wait, they kind of did. Good job Yoshi P.
_____
Aw geez there really are a couple guys on tweeter calling people racist over this >_<
The language and cultural barrier is very slightly amusing. People getting mad at shadows is core to the human condition.
>_<More specifically, Yoshida recalled an unspecified piece of media that referred to Final Fantasy 7 as a JRPG and how he was offended that it was "compartmentalizing what we were creating into a JRPG box."
Is "JRPG" really worse than "Dragon Quest clone"? If you want people to stop calling your games Dragon Quest clones, maybe stop cloning Dragon Quest. Make a different game.
.... oh wait, they kind of did. Good job Yoshi P.
_____
Aw geez there really are a couple guys on tweeter calling people racist over this >_<
Last edited by BryanM on Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
I'm sure there's some term in japan gamer circles for games like baldur's gate and icewind dale. Y'know, CRPGs. Also called WRPGs. Or Western RPGs. Referring to "the west." Just as japanese-style rpgs, or JRPGs, are rpgs influenced by japanese game design philosophies and genre storytelling tropes.
Broadly-speaking, all rpg video games can be said to draw ultimate inspiration from tabletop, but there's a world of difference in implementation between something like Knights of the Old Republic compared to Final Fantasy IX. One much more closely follows those tabletop dice-roll "wrpg" design philosophies, while the other takes Dragon Quest as its major touchstone.
Reminder that FPS used to be called Doom Clones. Now they're called FPS.
Broadly-speaking, all rpg video games can be said to draw ultimate inspiration from tabletop, but there's a world of difference in implementation between something like Knights of the Old Republic compared to Final Fantasy IX. One much more closely follows those tabletop dice-roll "wrpg" design philosophies, while the other takes Dragon Quest as its major touchstone.
Reminder that FPS used to be called Doom Clones. Now they're called FPS.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
I'd just ignore it.
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Steamflogger Boss
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Having no real problems to deal with the terminally online seek to sniff their own farts and debate such things.ryu wrote:I'm old. Wtf are kids spouting on twitter about "JRPG" being a racist term? Wtf is up with this being the result of japanese developers thinking western journalists and developers are the same as their fans in the west - a misunderstanding going back almost two decades? My fucking head
Bryan more or less covered the particulars. There was definitely a period where there was a general disdain for the genre and Japanese games in general from US gaming "media" that started in around 2005 and persisted through a lot of the PS360 era.
I have seen some good threads on the history of the term and why it's not used as a negative by genre fans. Hopefully people read those, but they will probably go tragically under read compared to some shrieking.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Eh, I've definitely see a ton of disdain for the JRPG model of games ever since I first came across the term in the mid-to-late 90s.
But it's always been more of a war of religion, than any sort of derogatory terminology. You'd always have defenders of JRPGs vs the people who disliked them.
But it's always been more of a war of religion, than any sort of derogatory terminology. You'd always have defenders of JRPGs vs the people who disliked them.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Yeah I remember that now, that you bring it up. DnD grognards vs Dragon Quest kids.
The mentality of the two camps is often quite different. One is more about freedom and branching stories, and the other's about completing a videogame checklist some percent out of a 100. More like gambling and incremental games; the stronger you get the faster you can farm EXP. (God, so many "is Zelda an rpg?" discussions in the early days..)
I can get why some grognards don't consider dungeon crawling and mowing down waves of bad guys "role playing" in any sense. I think it's interesting how genres can branch off and be about different things, tho.
(btw, I think the power growth curve on Dragon Quest-likes is usually set way too steep way too fast to be suited for strongly freeform kind of games. I liken it to tactics games with counter-attacks like Fire Emblem: to make that work, you have to either have leveling up be this rare huge major event, or the amount of power you gain from a level to be very very small. Just to keep everything in sync longer as some amount of threat.)
The mentality of the two camps is often quite different. One is more about freedom and branching stories, and the other's about completing a videogame checklist some percent out of a 100. More like gambling and incremental games; the stronger you get the faster you can farm EXP. (God, so many "is Zelda an rpg?" discussions in the early days..)
I can get why some grognards don't consider dungeon crawling and mowing down waves of bad guys "role playing" in any sense. I think it's interesting how genres can branch off and be about different things, tho.
(btw, I think the power growth curve on Dragon Quest-likes is usually set way too steep way too fast to be suited for strongly freeform kind of games. I liken it to tactics games with counter-attacks like Fire Emblem: to make that work, you have to either have leveling up be this rare huge major event, or the amount of power you gain from a level to be very very small. Just to keep everything in sync longer as some amount of threat.)
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
I enjoy both types of rpgs for different reasons. I think there is some crossover too (jrpgs with wrpg gameplay), especially with the more "hardcore" strategy jrpgs. Some jrpgs have a strong core of dungeon crawling/heavy number crunching/character building despite the more fluffy anime aesthetic.
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To Far Away Times
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
I used to be all about JRPGs, ( I played through Final Fantasy 1-10, and a handful of the more prominent games in the genre), but it definitely feels like something I've aged out of. Alternatively, the visuals got better and the anime-isms started becoming more unbearable.
The last JRPG I played was the FFVII remake, which I enjoyed quite a bit, but you'd have to go back many years before that to the last time I played a JRPG. Probably FFXIII or something around that time frame.
Ironically, I've never been more into WRPGs than I am now, and I'm even playing some bi-weekly DnD sessions.
The last JRPG I played was the FFVII remake, which I enjoyed quite a bit, but you'd have to go back many years before that to the last time I played a JRPG. Probably FFXIII or something around that time frame.
Ironically, I've never been more into WRPGs than I am now, and I'm even playing some bi-weekly DnD sessions.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Aside from simply not caring, this is half of the reason I just skip and mash through as many cutscenes and as much dialogue as possible now.To Far Away Times wrote:the anime-isms started becoming more unbearable.
Can't say WRPG's do much more for me personally. Most of the ones people revere the highest I've never been able to get into and the styles don't interest me either. The gameplay of JRPG's is generally more appealing to me even if I find the characters insufferable in basically all of the ones I've played post SNES.
I'm not really sure why I generally prefer JRPG gameplay.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
I'd say so too, but I also don't think that description really fits a majority of JRPGs, as does the opposite really not fit the majority of western ones either. It's honestly kind of a false dichotomy the whole thingBryanM wrote: I can get why some grognards don't consider dungeon crawling and mowing down waves of bad guys "role playing" in any sense. I think it's interesting how genres can branch off and be about different things, tho.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
The Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy model is definitely pure dungeon crawling, mechanically. A town, a dungeon, repeat. The story and/or dating and other accessory elements are just garnishes.
Notice that a lot of post-SNES games get away from that. More realistic scaling on the walk-around sections mean slower walking speed. Load times on battles mean slower battle speed. Loooong stupid animations mean hella slower battle speed.
I always remember the feedback the Bravely Default developers got from players when they showed off the game at trade shows: "MAKE IT FASTER."
The whole appeal of turn based games is they should be able to be played as fast or slowly as you feel like.
It's simple and speedy and you can let your mind wander on other things. They're liminal experiences, like taking a walk around the pond at the local park. Or stimulate an effort/reward part of our brains, like gardening and Cookie Clicker.XoPachi wrote:I'm not really sure why I generally prefer JRPG gameplay.
Notice that a lot of post-SNES games get away from that. More realistic scaling on the walk-around sections mean slower walking speed. Load times on battles mean slower battle speed. Loooong stupid animations mean hella slower battle speed.
I always remember the feedback the Bravely Default developers got from players when they showed off the game at trade shows: "MAKE IT FASTER."
The whole appeal of turn based games is they should be able to be played as fast or slowly as you feel like.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
I'm remembering why Terranigma is my favorite JRPG. I haven't played this in 12 years. This game was amazing and I remember when I actually still liked new Zelda games, this was a serious treat because it had similar beats to the top down Zeldas, but didn't feel like a cheap slapdash knockoff. Finding out about this one and it being a Super Nintendo game was just a lovely surprise.
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Steamflogger Boss
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Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Thankfully we got the revised version of Bravely.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
I did not enjoy either of the Bravely Default games. The Brave/Default systems felt too shallow and exploitable. "A pale copy of FF5" is perhaps my very uncharitable take on those games. No doubt some enjoyed them but I couldn't help but think about how I'd rather be playing FF5.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
I installed PSO2's US version on my PS4. I've only played Japanese PSO2 for the last 12 years and stay with this on my PC because there's no way I'm giving up all the shit I've gotten. Maybe if Sega actually localized this in 2012 like they said...
Anyway.
NGS was a wreck leading up to it's release and it's first year was complete ass. And tbh it's still very middling to me despite it's updates. With the way this game is setup, to me, this will -always- be a shell of the base game. Especially with how they're so afraid to do certain things. They're so scared of player shop inflation (already a problem), overwhelming casual players (give people some credit holy shit), and big damage numbers. But that's from the perspective of a veteran player that started day one for both iterations of PSO2. So there's a bias.
Playing it on a totally fresh account now, I could see myself not being quite as underwhelmed if I just started playing this and knew nothing about the original version. But I feel like I could actually, in good conscience, recommend this game without 30 asterisks to more of my friends now.
It just sucks at max level because you have to rely on seasonal events for content or run the only difficult quest in the game and that's your end game experience. But getting there is more full featured now.
(Also this game is hideous on PS4. Oh my shit.)
Anyway.
NGS was a wreck leading up to it's release and it's first year was complete ass. And tbh it's still very middling to me despite it's updates. With the way this game is setup, to me, this will -always- be a shell of the base game. Especially with how they're so afraid to do certain things. They're so scared of player shop inflation (already a problem), overwhelming casual players (give people some credit holy shit), and big damage numbers. But that's from the perspective of a veteran player that started day one for both iterations of PSO2. So there's a bias.
Playing it on a totally fresh account now, I could see myself not being quite as underwhelmed if I just started playing this and knew nothing about the original version. But I feel like I could actually, in good conscience, recommend this game without 30 asterisks to more of my friends now.
It just sucks at max level because you have to rely on seasonal events for content or run the only difficult quest in the game and that's your end game experience. But getting there is more full featured now.
(Also this game is hideous on PS4. Oh my shit.)
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
I thought it seemed incredibly promising for the first hour or so, but the extremely repetitive combat - far worse than any Zelda I've played - and the huge lull in pacing in the middle of the game killed it for me.XoPachi wrote:I'm remembering why Terranigma is my favorite JRPG. I haven't played this in 12 years. This game was amazing and I remember when I actually still liked new Zelda games, this was a serious treat because it had similar beats to the top down Zeldas, but didn't feel like a cheap slapdash knockoff. Finding out about this one and it being a Super Nintendo game was just a lovely surprise.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Illusion of Gaia wasn't really my thing either. Just kind of like doing the same stuff through hamster tunnels; even the illusion of choice is always better than no illusion at all. Kind of reminds me of an SNES tacticsy game I played long ago, that had only three units and you just went from map to map. Can't find it on romhacking...
Having things to look forward to, especially new powers (skills, characters, tools, weapons, etc) are kind of a core necessity. Especially for any long-ass game meant to last more than 30 minutes.
Sometimes it feels like there are more SNES games lost to the english market than there are stars in the sky. Still doesn't seem to be a translation for Hanjuku Hero, no?
Having things to look forward to, especially new powers (skills, characters, tools, weapons, etc) are kind of a core necessity. Especially for any long-ass game meant to last more than 30 minutes.
Sometimes it feels like there are more SNES games lost to the english market than there are stars in the sky. Still doesn't seem to be a translation for Hanjuku Hero, no?
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
Monstania, maybe?BryanM wrote:Illusion of Gaia wasn't really my thing either. Just kind of like doing the same stuff through hamster tunnels; even the illusion of choice is always better than no illusion at all. Kind of reminds me of an SNES tacticsy game I played long ago, that had only three units and you just went from map to map. Can't find it on romhacking...
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
That's the one! Thanks
It really failed to leave a mark on my neurons. Besides the graphics.
The guy who did the hacking on Dragon Quest Monsters: Caravan Hearts and Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei was infamous for dissing Devil Children Ice as a bad game when he decided to drop it. It made his translator feel bad. His last update on the Dragon Quest Monsters 1+2 PSX patch was in 2015, but I believe he'll finish it. Some day.
... I do agree with him on the GBA Devil Children games, though. The gameboy ones were excellent games for the platform and standards at the time. The GBA ones.... they probably should have gone with the more realistic Megami art style. Just a regular SMT kinda game with a bigger emphasis on monster catching+enhancing, with a gentler storyline would have been keen.
Still can't say they didn't try to indoctrinate children into the majesty of satan. What with the two anime series of 100 episodes each. Should've stuck with their teenager niche, the other devil worshippers got to the youths already.
It really failed to leave a mark on my neurons. Besides the graphics.
The guy who did the hacking on Dragon Quest Monsters: Caravan Hearts and Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei was infamous for dissing Devil Children Ice as a bad game when he decided to drop it. It made his translator feel bad. His last update on the Dragon Quest Monsters 1+2 PSX patch was in 2015, but I believe he'll finish it. Some day.
... I do agree with him on the GBA Devil Children games, though. The gameboy ones were excellent games for the platform and standards at the time. The GBA ones.... they probably should have gone with the more realistic Megami art style. Just a regular SMT kinda game with a bigger emphasis on monster catching+enhancing, with a gentler storyline would have been keen.
Still can't say they didn't try to indoctrinate children into the majesty of satan. What with the two anime series of 100 episodes each. Should've stuck with their teenager niche, the other devil worshippers got to the youths already.
Re: Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)
It's beautiful.BryanM wrote:
Thank you.