Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

Yeah, jump and aim up both share the stick's up direction sadly:

https://abload.de/img/zz121il3.png

It's part of Kung-Fu Master's legacy - jump is up and nobody learning from the formula questioned that until... Shaolin's Road, I believe?

You don't need to totally get used to it though because good plays are about being powered-up at max., and diagonal shooting has no place there. I myself never really put a lot time, mind, but, as this friend of mine told me, can easily see how it was a clear influence to Contra.

Thanks for clearing that up! The game does indeed seem to work fine regardless; from the superplays I've seen, I might not've realised aiming up was even a thing. I'll have to revisit, ACA's had it forever now.

...now I think about it, Legend of Kage is this way too, with its shuriken. Dunno how I forgot that. I suppose since you spend so much time airborne, in that one. Or maybe it's because I always relied more on the sword. I could almost believe the designers didn't want players just motoring along the forest floor, sniping incoming jump-slashers at leisure... or maybe it was just plain control panel limitation. It too works fine, despite sounding like a trainwreck on paper.

With Contra (NES) and its flawless 8way shot being one of my OG holy trinity (alongside Ninja Gaiden and Castlevania), it's always surprising to me when other 80s landmarks (with dedicated [jump] buttons) flub the mechanic. There's AC Contra and Super Contra, famously, and also their close contemporary Jackal/Top Gunner (all tightened-up to 8way for FC)... and speaking of Nichibutsu, their Holy Warrior Amaterasu aka Soldier Girl Amazon (a pretty nice topdown run/gun with some inspired Front Line vehicle hijacking). IIRC, Senjou no Okami's FC port actually added in 16way lag.

Even my beloved Saigo no Nindou has a touch of it. I think it's clearly deliberate (if no more likeable) there, since it affects only one of your two shooting weapons; Shuriken are 16-way, Grenades are 8.

Grenades / 8-way Shot: Defending this tree is a snap!

Spoiler

Shuriken / 16-way Shot: Expert handling required to avoid a complimentary hardwood enema!

Spoiler

Shuriken having the game's highest DPS and screen coverage, it's as if IREM were conscious of AC+FC Contra's ostensible achilles heel, the Spreadshot leaving every other weapon in the dust (only an ostensible achilles, of course, OG Spread being one of hard scrolling action's iconic raging boners ). Unnecessary, imo, with their lack of bullet cancel and piercing properties giving blades and Grenades more than enough respective cachet. Still, I can imagine IREM being particularly leery of torpedoing their new board's biggest USP (REAL NINJA ACTION GAME )

Sunset Riders (1991) is the earliest I can think of for AC sidescrolling with more or less flawless 8way aiming (ignoring loop lever/spinner games). There's technically a tiny quirk - aiming [down] from a standstill is delayed by a couple frames - but it's so minor you might not even notice, unless you're playing on an already-laggy setup. Pretty late in the day - I'm sure there's an earlier example.

[Bassa-Bassa]

or maybe it was just plain control panel limitation.

At the very least, that was a factor for sure - pre-Jamma games requiring panels with more than 2 buttons were pretty much considered non-standard.


I don't think there is any other arcade sidescroller with full 8-way joystick aiming other than Konami's games and Gun Force (which predates Riders by half a year)? The closest one I can think of is Juju Densetsu.

[Stevens]

Ah jeez, how'd I forget Rolling Thunder? A veritable subgenre pioneer in its own right (the "S2RSMF" or Sneak To The Right Shooting Motherfuckers ).

Haha. I just realized Rolling Thunder and EAR have similar game play. Can we make it even more niche and call it HIDE IN DOORS SHOOTING MOTHAFUCKERS?

I said something like this a while ago. I think I called it "tactical shooting action" or some shit. Huntdown, Rolling Thunder, Shinobi, EAR, etc are more methodical approaches to the run n gun formula. They usually have an ammo system as well, at least for sub or alternate weapons, as compared to Contra which has none.

Yeah I can get behind Tactical Shooting Action. Though may still use HIDSMF's occasionally.

[BIL]

Yeah I can get behind Tactical Shooting Action. Though may still use HIDSMF's occasionally.

The Theme Of HIDSMF

[velo]

Avenging Spirit dropped on modern systems a couple months ago, thought you guys would be all over that. I only found it by travelling through the eshop recommended-if-you-like-this links. I wonder what else is flying under the radar? (The Immortal has a port too, whatdya know, including both NES and MD versions. I owe that game some revenge.) It's published Ratalaika. They seem to have been doing passing well with the retro ports like Gleylancer. Shame when good games fall into the wrong hands. The DAta East switch ports are on sale more than they're off sale. guess the fish aren't biting.

[Sima Tuna]

The Data East ports of their arcade games are awful. I have a couple on my Switch and the ports are so bad the games are nearly unplayable. There's no button remapping, no options of any kinds and no practice features. All you get is a rom dumped into a really ugly wrapper. Hell, a fucking rom running in an emulator would at least allow you to remap the buttons. The default, unchangeable mappings are goddamn criminal, too.

[BrianC]

The Data East ports of their arcade games are awful. I have a couple on my Switch and the ports are so bad the games are nearly unplayable. There's no button remapping, no options of any kinds and no practice features. All you get is a rom dumped into a really ugly wrapper. Hell, a fucking rom running in an emulator would at least allow you to remap the buttons. The default, unchangeable mappings are goddamn criminal, too.

You mean the ports backed by a former TG-16 mascot? I'm glad Burgertime, Trio the Punch, and Burnin' Rubber were picked up by Arcade Archives instead.

The Immortal is also in the Nintendo Switch Online NES games, IIRC. It was also included in a game pack that came with the Everdrive N8 Pro when I ordered it from Stone Age Gamer.

[velo]

The Data East ports of their arcade games are awful. I have a couple on my Switch and the ports are so bad the games are nearly unplayable. There's no button remapping, no options of any kinds and no practice features. All you get is a rom dumped into a really ugly wrapper. Hell, a fucking rom running in an emulator would at least allow you to remap the buttons. The default, unchangeable mappings are goddamn criminal, too.

I think some of them do support a single save state, yay. They've bundled some of them in collections now, probably without any improvements. I love some of those games and I don't ask for much, but they still underdeliver.

[Sima Tuna]

The Data East ports of their arcade games are awful. I have a couple on my Switch and the ports are so bad the games are nearly unplayable. There's no button remapping, no options of any kinds and no practice features. All you get is a rom dumped into a really ugly wrapper. Hell, a fucking rom running in an emulator would at least allow you to remap the buttons. The default, unchangeable mappings are goddamn criminal, too.

I think some of them do support a single save state, yay. They've bundled some of them in collections now, probably without any improvements. I love some of those games and I don't ask for much, but they still underdeliver.

I bought Night Slashers and can barely fucking play it (even to credit feed), because the default controls are so ass-backwards and weird that I consistently input the wrong commands.

A standard Switch controller layout would be something like Y to punch, B to jump, X to superjoy. I think the layout they went with has X as jump, Y as superjoy and A as punch. Something like that. You have to claw the fucking controller to jump kick IIRC.

Super Burgertime at least is playable, since it has fewer buttons.

[copy-paster]

1CC'ed CV Bloodlines with both chars over the course of a week. Quality gam but I find Elizabeth's fight too long, but the midboss track slaps tho so I give it a pass.

I personally prefer John, but his exclusive course/latter part in st5 did gave me anxiety as well as the pillar men. Expert mode clear someday but not sure if no death runs is worth it, last stage platforming is just as bad as CV4's latter part instant deaths.

[BIL]

You can shut down the Pillar Men (I'm calling them that from now on ) really aggressively with John, by jump-upshotting their projectiles at the source. Even if a few escape, it'll significantly cut down on traffic. (sharp design, giving John a IV-style diagonal, but tying it to his Makaimura-strict jump; also preserves the Axe's value as a crouching anti-air, unlike in IV)

God, I love that midboss's design. The hectic action is cool too, but I really dig the "evil spirit" / poltergeist aesthetic. See also IV and Rondo's haunted paintings, and the former's killer rug.

Actually, IV is probably the best of the trads for this; lots of odd ghostly things, like the skeletal horses grazing in st1's moonlit fields, and that spectral groundskeeper who weeps over his slain pooch (sorry gramps! self-defense!). Big part of my enjoyment with that game.

[copy-paster]

Yeah I end up use that strat after my health went 1/4, then got my first death at Moth queen because I was too scared and first time fighting her with John too.

Also weekend ago I participate on an arcade marathon, submitting MS3 1CC attempt the VOD is here Jump to 0:30m - 1:15m for the run viewed by like over 200 users. Had a resilient, vicious first 2 deaths at st4 opening then proceed with epic comeback, chat went full nuts in the end.

[BIL]

That's one brutal stretch to cross on a single life, congrats

[copy-paster]

It was really a miracle run, smooth Sol speedkill with good RNG annd popcorn worthy Rootmars fight. Scrolling action stuff done for now gotta back to some shmup homework.

[Air Master Burst]

That's a sick MS3 run, I've never killed Sol that quick. The guy's a total dickweed.

[velo]

So the Joe & Mac Caveman Ninja remake actually came out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9ZELlbpzmo

The HD version of this famous arcade game is still fun and quirky, but also longer, better, faster, stronger…

A BRANDNEW DESIGN: Experience a full and faithful remake
of the arcade original game with new graphics, new sounds,
and better control for an unprecedented experience
NEW MODES: 2 modes are at the menu, the arcade Mode
(Remake) and an extended mode that will bring you a longer
game experience.
CO-OP MODE: one pre-historical dude may not be enough,
ask a friend to play with you to share a stronger adventure.
EACH MODE WILL HAVE NEW FEATURES: a training mode, a
boss rush mode, a score attack mode and, to play faster than
ever, a speedrun mode !

[Sengoku Strider]

Expert mode clear someday but not sure if no death runs is worth it, last stage platforming is just as bad as CV4's latter part instant deaths.

If you know the game already, expert is not so difficult. I don't remember it being all that different.

[BIL]

Saw ACA Dragon Buster had updated last week, with the note: "Function added to Button Config." Checked and, yep, they added a [jump] button. (a year later - I'm half "why not at launch," but mostly "hell yeah, they still give a shit" not too surprising, altogether, Ham-chan being known to deliver mighty updates multiple years post-release sometimes entire regions/versions, as with Akumajou Dracula/Haunted Castle)

Doesn't change things tooo much, being a simple binding of [up] to a button; DB's innate paleo-jank remains. EG, if you want to leap forward, you'll still need to muscle-memo letting go of [left/right] a tick before hitting [jump] - this delay coming naturally to the strictures of its native four-way stick. And jumping itself remains tertiary to the harshly minimalist combat, with the powerful-yet-exposing downstabs oft-pyrrhic next to a couple of well-placed bops. It'll be no news to anyone who's made it a couple Rounds in that DB is startlingly basic, though not without reason; if you're weathering shitstorms of midboss bullets and zako pests, being haplessly juggled from wall-to-wall? Chances are you missed your shot to hack 'em down on sight at the cost of a couple trivial 10HP nicks, with maybe a quick Fireball to mow through the rabble. Don't overthink it, just get stuck in and kill the fuckers.

ala fellow megahit then / bizarre idiosyncrasy now Genpei Toumaden, it's an endearingly dated big-picture approach to 1CC pressure; death by attrition (or Bad End by missed treasures) the real killer, with isolated mishaps forgiven and forgotten amidst a well-plotted credit. Just like Genpei, it's not that finesse is absent, or irrelevant; far from it, with deft play separating authoritative Bustings from haggard slogs. It's merely not nearly so pre-eminent as in later landmarks, with chasing it a deadly distraction.

Still, for 8way and/or gamepad users, particularly those who grew up post-Castlevania, the added button is a welcome addition, and a much easier introduction to DB's unmistakably ancient, Druaga-informed sidescroller. As the sort of lunatic who willingly grappled with archetypal fallen angel/Literal Brain-Rewiring IREM Bodyhorror Holy Diver, it's a trivial adjustment.

Ah, Drum. Times like this, I really miss my late friend. "Drum, you ungrateful mongoloid gorilla," I'd be saying to him, "this is why we revere Akamatsu so; not even two years on from Dragon Buster, and the same year as Genpei Toumaden, here was Dracula bringing true life-or-death precision in realtime combat!" Nowadays, I'd make concessions to 85's protoVania Green Beret, while noting the even more incomparably superior Argus no Senshi; though with the necessary asterisk that Tecmo's game is an entirely different beast from Konami's pair, designed around wildly flexible jumps and attack cancels, opposite their deliberate constraints.

I wonder where he is now. Homie if you need somebody to argue for clemency after you rashly told master BLOODF to eat a willy, twice even, I'm now and forever your huckleberry. ;3

[Sengoku Strider]

How does the PCE version of Ninja Gaiden stack up? It has some bafflingly amateurish parallax scrolling which somehow seems to be moving on a per-tile basis, but other than that on video it looks pretty good.

[BIL]

A curio at best. 3; Bafflingly amateurish, indeed - making me wonder precisely who Hudson hired to develop it... surely not the A-list R-Type guys? If you told me this was a random UK personal computer port I'd believe you. Well almost. It still plays somewhat competently, albeit inferior across the board.

Must've been a real shamefur dispray at the time, with FC NGII+III's gorgeous parallax. And now I re-read that review, GUN-DEC and Metal Storm PWN it as well! Hmm... I always skip, but doesn't FC NG1 have some decent layered scrolling in its cutscenes, too? Just a total dunking-on, all-around.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Some HK guys, but from Hudson itself if I recall.

[BIL]

^ cheers, that figures! HK being under British control at the time... maybe I'm not too far off-base?

[Bassa-Bassa]

Despite those aesthetics issues, I didn't find PCE Ryukenden that bad, to be honest. The good side of having never played seriously the originals, I guess.

[BIL]

Ahh, man. Namco's ancient Druaga & Co ARPGs (Ishtar, DB, Genpei; at a stretch, Valkyrie) are such joys to unpick. Augustly archaic puzzleboxes with sublime click-in-place action.

To wit, became clear DB's midboss type BONEY-KUN the SKELETONLY knight was Fire-immune early on. Makes sense! Motherfucker got no skin, Jack! But JIJI-SAN the wily wizard with his telekinetic Knife Cloud? His beard and robes alone should see a flailing human torch where the old feller once stood, surely. No dice! BUT! Tagging him does cause the old bugger to dart forward a couple steps... which, for an old-ass man with 1HP, reliant on keep-away, is a FATAL SITUATION indeed! Womp womp, he head hittin' the ground while my head's back in the game!

A good backup strat for the preferred runup/dunup method, in which protagonist CLOVIS uses his preposterously speedy, Sanic Teh Hegehoog-shaming run to PWN the wrinkly old tosser before his BGM can start! Better slam on the brakes fast if the RNG shuffler gives you someone else is all I'm sayin

I figured the razor-sharp STG/run-gun hybrid Baraduke would be my next venture, in what's become a resoundingly triumphant Namco Museum The Revengeoning: So You Thought You'd Buried Your PS1 Discs In The Closet - but ala the profoundly deceptive Genpei, there's a blinding trove of quality under that dusty surface layer of 198XBD paleo-jank.

[Sengoku Strider]

Despite those aesthetics issues, I didn't find PCE Ryukenden that bad, to be honest. The good side of having never played seriously the originals, I guess.

I played the originals to death, at least the first two, justnever could beat Jacquio or the other guy. But I haven't owned an NES since I traded it for a TurboGrafx back in the 90s. Which I also no longer own. But I do have a Duo-R. I could just buy the trilogy on Wii U, but the emulation on the virtual console seems to be kinda laggy.

[velo]

Expert mode clear someday but not sure if no death runs is worth it, last stage platforming is just as bad as CV4's latter part instant deaths.

If you know the game already, expert is not so difficult. I don't remember it being all that different.

iirc Bloodlines expert annoyingly removes a bunch of health items. The enemy placement changes are pretty minor. Some additional ghosts harassing you while you're trying to do other stuff.

[BIL]

Despite those aesthetics issues, I didn't find PCE Ryukenden that bad, to be honest. The good side of having never played seriously the originals, I guess.

I played the originals to death, at least the first two, justnever could beat Jacquio or the other guy. But I haven't owned an NES since I traded it for a TurboGrafx back in the 90s. Which I also no longer own. But I do have a Duo-R. I could just buy the trilogy on Wii U, but the emulation on the virtual console seems to be kinda laggy.

Be warned, the SFC/SNES comp (Tomoe/Trilogy) is punishingly fugly. 3; I can only just about tolerate 'em on mute, with their MSpainted art (forget that deluxe parallax, apparently too much for the "S" FC ), and Babby's First MIDI soundtracks.

FC/NES NG1 was only ever competent graphically, but by the same token quite inoffensive, and the OST has legitimate fire and kick (killer drum sound). NGII & III, OTOH, are genuinely attractive productions, with their vivid backdrops, tightly-detailed sprites, and inimitably pummelling/plaintive BGMs; so despite preferring NG1's just-right carbon steel balance of hardness/flex, it's the prettier sequels I find really unbearable via SFC.

Anyhoo, YMMV - but if you're a similarly sensitive soul, trust me you'll know

EDIT: oh god lmao. Every time NG Trilogy comes up, I'll compare the OSTs to make sure I'm not exaggerating bad memories. LOL NOPE.

"Unlimited Moment" NES vs SNES

Oof. Attack Of Babby's First MIDI Saxophone. Okay, so capturing those bittersweet violins and cellos might've been a bit much, but surely they got the drums, right? Those crisp DPCM hits that punch through the mix like Ma Deuce through a marshmallow Panzerkampfwagen? How hard can it be?

"Basilisk Mine Field" NES vs SNES

WHERE IS MY VOMIT EMOTICON X_X Oh, here it is. (16bit ver is Ryu being chased through the titular abandoned mine by a roving gang of polka musicians and a horde of giant mosquitos)

Ayo by the by, the front page is always hiring! Let us know if you ever take down J&J Big Endboss Co (in either game! or even NGIII!) for accreditation. But be quick! As we all know, when our founder and patron saint Edmond The Mad returns with his own clear, we're locking and deleting the thread!

[Blinge]

taskforce wya



shoutouts to fallen bros

[BIL]

C-Team currently outside Edmans' house just kinda lookin @ him an bumpin NG1 OST while he yell and brandish he piece, u kno, usual monday

Ohshi - pourin 1 out for absent Texan Death Metal frens

[Udderdude]

"Basilisk Mine Field" NES vs SNES

WHERE IS MY VOMIT EMOTICON X_X Oh, here it is. (16bit ver is Ryu being chased through the titular abandoned mine by a roving gang of polka musicians and a horde of giant mosquitos)

Crimes against music. I'm charging you for a new set of ears.