Thread for handheld gaming on a CRT

[RebeL9]

I want to initiate a single thread for all of us who prefer to play handheld games on a CRT.
Here we can share tips and suggestions how to get the most out of each console. We will look at Gamecube Gameboy player, MiSTer, Analogue Pocket Dock, PS TV and consolized versions of different handheld consoles.

[fernan1234]

Ditch the GBP and Analogue Pocket, MiSTer beats them both for any handheld system on CRT.

PS TV is probably the way to go for PSP/Vita games, though may get complicated for SD CRTs.

[RebeL9]

Game Boy on Sony BVM 20F1E

Game Boy Player with GBI using OEM component cable 4X zoom


Game Boy core on MiSTer


Super Gameboy on 1Chip SNES

[fernan1234]

^note the MiSTer core does have a setting to use the same AR/fill up as much of the screen as the Super Gameboy (which is also not the best option unless you have the JP exclusive Super Gameboy 2).

For cart usage or purism, a GBA Consolizer is a pretty good option too though that one would need converters/downscaling for SD CRTs.

[SavagePencil]

Prior to the MiSTer getting a Lynx core, I have used an Extron VSC 900 to take a VGA-modded Lynx and put it onto a PVM.

[RebeL9]

Prior to the MiSTer getting a Lynx core, I have used an Extron VSC 900 to take a VGA-modded Lynx and put it onto a PVM.

How would you say the image compares to the mister Lynx core?

[SavagePencil]

I haven't had a chance to check it out yet, sadly. If I get some time this week maybe I can do a side-by-side.

[Dochartaigh]

Ditch the GBP and Analogue Pocket, MiSTer beats them both for any handheld system on CRT.

Can't really say this for the Analogue Pocket quite yet since it doesn't have any sort of analog output option at the moment - the Analogue DAC hasn't been enabled in the firmware so nobody has used it to date.

They're also 'porting' (if that's the correct word) cores directly from the Mister to the Pocket - so if they have the same exact 'programming' on both, they should be identical play-wise, correct? I would then default to which one has the better quality analog output options...

...and I won't pretend to know a thing about Mister's analogue output, but from a brief search it looks like the old way is the IO Board, and the new? way is Direct Video? Again, noob here in regards to this, but when I start to read stuff like there's a 'compatibility list' for the IO-Board, and there's issues even finding (direct quote from their Direct Video Github) "it seems very hard to find devices which are compatible" for VGA to RGBS/SCART conversion, and phrases like how it's compatible with "most current cores" (meaning not all right now)...

...that kinda makes me think that the Analogue DAC where I just plug it in and get perfect analog output in whatever flavor you want (Composite, S-Video, YPbPr/Component, RGBS), with an easily found bare-wire (no converter) simple cable is looking like a mighty fine option... BUT of course we don't know how this will truly play out because the DAC isn't enabled in the firmware yet (EVERYTHING Pocket is still in its infancy stage). Crossing my fingers though.

[matt]

I love CRTs and have lots of them, but playing handheld games on them seems a little strange to me. Unlike console & computer games, I always played them on cheap fuzzy LCDs growing up, which I guess is why they feel better to me on a flat panel. I even went so far as to put together an OSSC profile with an LCD-style grid pattern.

Having said that, if you have one of those early multisync monitors that accepts oddball scan rates, you can run GBI HF in 360p mode. It runs at 22.5 khz, and is full screen with no scaling artifacts. Pretty neat! Here it is running on my GVM 2020:

Spoiler

[Bassa-Bassa]

You can add Windows PC prepared for 15khz (if the thread is about 15khz CRTs and displaying native resolutions) to the list. I think Mame is not the best emulator out there for the most popular handheld systems (yet), but there's Retroarch in case, or even stand-alone emulators in some instances. Easiest way is through an oldish Radeon video card (DVI-A/DVI-I output), proper video cable (many options currently, if you don't want to build it yourself) and CRT Emu Driver instead of the official card driver. This method has the best bonus ever - Mame games at their native video and no added latency thanks to Groovymame. Linux kind of works as well.

[fernan1234]

...and I won't pretend to know a thing about Mister's analogue output, but from a brief search it looks like the old way is the IO Board, and the new? way is Direct Video? Again, noob here in regards to this, but when I start to read stuff like there's a 'compatibility list' for the IO-Board, and there's issues even finding (direct quote from their Direct Video Github) "it seems very hard to find devices which are compatible" for VGA to RGBS/SCART conversion, and phrases like how it's compatible with "most current cores" (meaning not all right now)...

No this all isn't quite accurate. IO board vs direct video, it's not really about old vs. new way, direct video just has the advantage of freeing up the GPIO, e.g. for using a second RAM board for new cores that may take advantage of it. The IO board has the advantage of dual output.

The IO doesn't have compatibility issues, either with cores or with hardware. It can output by default RGBS or RGBHV, all you need is a simple passive cable to your monitor/TV. It's only YPbPr that can be a bit tricky in some situations, but many people use an external RGB to YPbPr converter instead, like the RGB2Comp.

Direct video needs an HDMI to analogue (either YPbPr or RGBHV/VGA) converter. This is where some people have found that some converters are better than other, but it's not hard to find one that works well. Those that need RGBS do need an extra sync combiner, but those are also not hard to get (many cheap Extron RGB interfaces do the job).

In the beginning there were some cores that didn't support direct video, but that's supposed to change as cores are updated to new frameworks. At most it may be some of the unusual PC cores, but I can't think of any game console/handheld/arcade core that doesn't.

It'll take time for cores to be ported to Pocket and for any bugs to be ironed out, the porting process is not necessarily straightforward. I'll remain to be seen if the Pocket + DAC combo ends up being more cost effective than a MiSTer setup (which will always be able to do more since it uses a more powerful FPGA, add ons, and has a broader contributor community).

[RebeL9]

I love CRTs and have lots of them, but playing handheld games on them seems a little strange to me. Unlike console & computer games, I always played them on cheap fuzzy LCDs growing up, which I guess is why they feel better to me on a flat panel. I even went so far as to put together an OSSC profile with an LCD-style grid pattern.

Having said that, if you have one of those early multisync monitors that accepts oddball scan rates, you can run GBI HF in 360p mode. It runs at 22.5 khz, and is full screen with no scaling artifacts. Pretty neat! Here it is running on my GVM 2020:

Spoiler

That’s actually cool. Looks nice. I haven’t came across many 360p monitors!

[fernan1234]

I also used to be in the "handhelds belong in LCDs" camp as well, but lately have been favoring CRTs. Those that display well in 240p nicely replicate the cartoony look you'd get on the original tiny LCDs, but without their disadvantages, and with the top motion clarity of CRTs (and desirable slow pixel response effects can be simulated on solutions like MiSTer cores). And on top of that you get the ability to display the odd refresh rates that many of the original screens used. It's been great to play some Wonderswan games at 75.4Hz on a CRT that supports it.

[RebeL9]

I also used to be in the "handhelds belong in LCDs" camp as well, but lately have been favoring CRTs. Those that display well in 240p nicely replicate the cartoony look you'd get on the original tiny LCDs, but without their disadvantages, and with the top motion clarity of CRTs (and desirable slow pixel response effects can be simulated on solutions like MiSTer cores). And on top of that you get the ability to display the odd refresh rates that many of the original screens used. It's been great to play some Wonderswan games at 75.4Hz on a CRT that supports it.

Totally agree. Wonderswan looks awesome on CRT! It’s a very cool core! Can’t wait for Neo Geo pocket to be released!

[Dochartaigh]

No this all isn't quite accurate. IO board vs direct video, it's not really about old vs. new way, direct video just has the advantage of freeing up the GPIO, e.g. for using a second RAM board for new cores that may take advantage of it. The IO board has the advantage of dual output.

The IO doesn't have compatibility issues, either with cores or with hardware. It can output by default RGBS or RGBHV, all you need is a simple passive cable to your monitor/TV. It's only YPbPr that can be a bit tricky in some situations, but many people use an external RGB to YPbPr converter instead, like the RGB2Comp.

Direct video needs an HDMI to analogue (either YPbPr or RGBHV/VGA) converter. This is where some people have found that some converters are better than other, but it's not hard to find one that works well. Those that need RGBS do need an extra sync combiner, but those are also not hard to get (many cheap Extron RGB interfaces do the job).

In the beginning there were some cores that didn't support direct video, but that's supposed to change as cores are updated to new frameworks. At most it may be some of the unusual PC cores, but I can't think of any game console/handheld/arcade core that doesn't.

It'll take time for cores to be ported to Pocket and for any bugs to be ironed out, the porting process is not necessarily straightforward. I'll remain to be seen if the Pocket + DAC combo ends up being more cost effective than a MiSTer setup (which will always be able to do more since it uses a more powerful FPGA, add ons, and has a broader contributor community).

But Fernan... your post just confirmed that most of what I thought was indeed correct: you just said that you still might need a RGB > YPbPr converter depending on your setup needs, there's still confusion on which HDMI > whatever converter(s) work well, possible need of a RGBS Sync combiner (even if easy to get, it's one more thing to need...), and some cores may still need to be updated to be able to use Direct Video (even if not the super popular ones)...

...where with the Pocket + DAC (once implemented) that's simply all you need to output Composite, S-Video, YPbPr, or RGBS.

But I totally agree with you about the Pocket NEVER being as powerful as the Mister - that is certainly the case... but hoping that up to 4th gen (including CD consoles - which the Pocket seems to have enough ALM's in its FPGA to handle, going off the Mister core utilization list - all in theory of course ) they'll both be good options on equal footing (with perhaps a nod to Pocket for easier analog output).

I love CRTs and have lots of them, but playing handheld games on them seems a little strange to me.

I'll go a little further... and I know, I know, there ARE exceptions to what i'm going to say, and probably a metric ton of them... but it seems VERY strange to me that when people are NOT playing on-the-go, why they would ever in a million years play a portable system on a CRT when they could be playing actual home consoles instead...

Don't know if I'm alone here but like 95% of portable games I played are based off the console version of a game, and the console version absolutely kicks the shit out of the portable version ~95% of the time as well... so why would I want to play the crappy portable version at home? (or even on-the-go with so many new portable devices being able to play more modern home console games...).

Growing up I had Game Boy, had Game Gear, then finally Game Boy Advance (and WAY later, like ~2 years ago DS & 3DS so I won't count those... especially since likewise – about 95% of the games I actually like on those are re-makes of way earlier home console games lol... not counting all the Castlevanias which is specifically why I bought the DS XL ) and I still HIGHLY preferred the home console version of nearly every single game...

And yes, I own the Analogue Pocket, but specifically bought it for those 3x GBA Castlevania games, and have played near nothing else portable-wise (I tried, I really did, I have spreadsheets for numerous portable systems based of dozens of hours of research/watching compilation 'best of' videos, reading Top XXX Games lists... not much has struck my fancy at all), BUT, I now get to use the Pocket for the other reason why I bought it: all the home console cores which are now out (NES, TG16/PCE, Genesis, SNES, Neo Geo AES even) - with the added benefit of being able to continue gaming not only on-the-go, but also on my big-screen TV at home (or CRT once DAC works) via the Analogue Dock - best of both worlds IMO!

[matt]

That’s actually cool. Looks nice. I haven’t came across many 360p monitors!

It's not a real video standard, GBI includes the mode for use with the OSSC (you can line double it to 720p). Being able to use it with older PC monitors is a neat side effect. Not many monitors support it; there was just a small window in the late '80s where there was a good use case for 15-31khz capable displays. The more recent "multiformat" broadcast monitors only sync to specific scan rates and won't work with anything in between.

It might work with a medium res or tri sync arcade monitor, since it's close to 24 khz.

I'll go a little further... and I know, I know, there ARE exceptions to what i'm going to say, and probably a metric ton of them... but it seems VERY strange to me that when people are NOT playing on-the-go, why they would ever in a million years play a portable system on a CRT when they could be playing actual home consoles instead...

That's true, especially with the GBA where half the games were cropped screen SNES ports. I remember thinking how awesome it would be to play portable games on a TV, but when I eventually got a Super Gameboy and the GB player for the Gamecube, I didn't play them very much.

I remember seeing Gameboy demo kiosks where the Gameboy was hooked up to a TV and being blown away by the concept. That was before the Super Gameboy.

[fernan1234]

But Fernan... your post just confirmed that most of what I thought was indeed correct: you just said that you still might need a RGB > YPbPr converter depending on your setup needs, there's still confusion on which HDMI > whatever converter(s) work well, possible need of a RGBS Sync combiner (even if easy to get, it's one more thing to need...), and some cores may still need to be updated to be able to use Direct Video (even if not the super popular ones)...

I mentioned those things just to be thorough, but honestly it's very easy and most people are likely to never have problems. If you use a professional monitor/PVM/etc. all you need is a single monoprice cable. Those with SCART needs also can use a single cable.


And I'd like to remind you guys of a little GBA-exclusive that happens to be in contention for one of the best games ever: Mother 3. It's that kind of game where it's really great to be able to play on a TV/monitor rather than a tiny handheld. The Castlevania games were mentioned and those also benefit.

I'm keeping handhelds only for that handful of games with unique features that take advantage of the handheld form factor (e.g. Made in Wario... though technically many people play those by swinging a Gamecube around lol).

[tongshadow]

Lots of talk about the GB/GBA, but I find that PSP games benefit GREATLY from being played on CRTs. Not only you get the purest picture without the shitty scaling a flat panel would do, but also better colors, superior motion and, of course, more screen real estate.

So if you have a Multisync PVM/BVM or a good Component-> VGA transcoder, definitely revisit the PSP on CRTs.

https://i.imgur.com/tRcQsyt.jpeg

The 3DS would've been a good candidate as well if Nintendo hadnt made outputting video from it a real hassle.

[RebeL9]

Lots of talk about the GB/GBA, but I find that PSP games benefit GREATLY from being played on CRTs. Not only you get the purest picture without the shitty scaling a flat panel would do, but also better colors, superior motion and, of course, more screen real estate.

So if you have a Multisync PVM/BVM or a good Component-> VGA transcoder, definitely revisit the PSP on CRTs.

https://i.imgur.com/tRcQsyt.jpeg

The 3DS would've been a good candidate as well if Nintendo hadnt made outputting video from it a real hassle.

Totatally agree. I’m using a Vita TV with my Bvm D24. It’s like the system was made for it!
Vita games looks best obviously because of higher resolution but also PSP games benefits greatly!
I just wish there was a good consolized NIntendo DS. I’m pretty sure it also would look great on CRT.

Btw have anyone here tried one of the Extron UDS to zoom in on the image?
I this would solve the small window on GB on MiSTer.

[RebeL9]

Time for some Vita!
I’m using a Vita TV on my Sony BVM D24 together with sharp scale app and Vitagrafix. The latter allows you to increase resolution and set a frame cap.
Street Fighter X Tekken is running in 1440x720p. Naturally bumping the resolution this much will run the game with slowdowns but if you use any of the overclock apps it actually runs at a decent fps. The other three games are running at 960x544p.

So essential apps for those of you who want to play Vita games on your CRT:
Sharpscale (to output sharper image)
Vitagrafix (allows you to change resolution and FPS cap of a couple PS Vita games, unfortunately not all but some of the big hits)
PSVshell (allows you to overclock the syste CPU)

To connect your vita to your multiformat CRT you need some kind of adapter that connect to the Vita TV's HDMI. I am using a HD Fury 3 and it works great. I am also using it to connect by BVM D24 to the PS3 and Xbox 360 which also works great. For some reason the HD Fury adapters have skyrockted in price on ebay. Just a few months ago I found a brand new on Ebay for £30.

Vita TV is an amazing thing. It was a shame how lousy Sony marketed it. It’s like a console between PS3 and PS4. So much potential.