1st loops (changed ftw)

[cigsthecat]

I disagree. The best Raizing games are very difficult, plus have many layers and subtleties there to discover about the scoring making the game that much harder.

[Frederik]

The only time I actually liked a second loop was in Astro Boy: Omega factor. New enemy placement, and a completely new ending level. You can`t imagine my disappointment when I saw that Gunstar Super Heroes DIDN`T have a second loop since it was so mind-boggling short.

What do you mean, we`re talking about shmups here? On a sidenote, why is it called "2nd loop" anyways? If a game has only 1 loop, where does it loop then? More like "2nd round"

[sjewkestheloon]

i love shmups to have a second loop, or even infinate loops, as i don't look for shmups to be necessarily finishable to be enjoyable.

some games for me are just hard as hell, but reaching the 3rd or 4th stage is fun.

games which i'm better at i can complete the first loop and then decide what i want to do. if there's a2nd loop it gives me the opportunity to play further and get a better score. or if i don't fancy it i can just stop.

i mean surely it's better to get a 2nd loop than not, as long as the main issues outlined by the others above are somewhat considered. if i finish the 1st loop and want to stop to enter my score and walk away i'll suicide and enter my initials. doesn't seem to hard to me.

currently working on the second loop of fire shark and i'm loving it.

[icycalm]

Did you know, Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. There is a lesson here somewhere.

Also, I changed the thread name lolz.

[Rob]

Did you know, Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. There is a lesson here somewhere.

We aren't pushing American kids hard enough?

Oh, I vote down loops except for Gunbird 2's just to humble me. I'm not sure humble is strong enough of a word for that.

[shiftace]

Ok, so, now the vote's on whether first loops are good or bad? Okay. In any case, I'm for selectable difficulty way more than looping. Not sure how that would work in an arcade though.

I don't like the concept so much, for a lot of games it seems like a cheap way to gain length. Just having a second loop for the hell of it, especially if the only change is something like aimed bullets released by destroyed enemies or more aggressive patterns, just seems lame.

Yeah, this. OTOH, it lets the developer add a good deal of gameplay with no new graphics and minimal pattern tweaking, so it's real easy to do. If they're going to redo everything in the second loop, why not make it a sequel? People have to eat.

[BulletMagnet]

Did you know, Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

Well, they do play the most Raizing shmups. *rimshot*

*runs away from cascade of rotten vegetables*

[Dave_K.]

IMHO second loops for cave games are good, keeps hardcore fans interested/challenged. I also agree that Raizing games pretty much don't need them as they have a depth all their own to keep people challenged. Over 2 loops is stupid/lazy on the part of the developer.

[Edge]

I don't like second loops at all. Even if i love the Gradius games.
But I like the idea of getting the chance to fight a hidden boss if I 1CC the game, like in Giga Wing.

I think multiple loops can unbalance the scoresystem and difficulty. And like icycalm said before, the designers have to take time to balance the second loop, which I think they should rather invest to balance or put more secrets into the regular game.

[Blade]

Here's something to ponder:

Psyvariar has this sort of Branching Level system that allows you to pick and choose which level and the difficulty you want to go to between stages. You could even go so far as to say that the end boss is determined by which route you take.

Even better, I've always liked the sort of evolution of bosses, especially in the game Warning Forever. If you can make a shmup that evolves the ship and bosses, I would praise you!

[Frederik]

Did you know, Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. There is a lesson here somewhere.

Also, I changed the thread name lolz.

Wow, I was wondering if anyone read this. I hate to nitpick, but damn, some things are hard to resist (I was about to scream "I ´ve played this game about one year ago" in the "New Game: Dan!Da!Dan!" topic, but I don`t wanna be thought of as a dick).

[Frederik]

Did you know, Japan has one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

Well, they do play the most Raizing shmups. *rimshot*

*runs away from cascade of rotten vegetables*

Maybe they get a hell lot of extends afterwards.

This reminds me of something I read on Somethingawful.com some time ago on Hinduism and reincarnation:

"If you do not want to be reincarnated you can just reappear where you were when you died and blink for several seconds in invulnerable mode."

[Ko.oS]

I always thought psikyo putted 2nd laps (yes, i said laps) in their shooters to hide the fact that they are ridiculously short.
also, some r8zing stuff lets you choose extended mode for a longer game, but you know this already. I voted yes, btw...

[PepsimanVsJoe]

My God Gigawing had a super final boss if you 1CCed? Good thing I lost my last life to the final guy once, I would have flung my laptop across the room if I got the hidden boss.

Salamander 2 does have some arranged songs from the first game in the second loop. Of course you probably won't hear all of them because they take out continuing.

Also i would hate to see Gradius superplays. Imagine getting the highest possible score in Gradius V and then watching a video that clocked in at over 250 hours.