Is being able to view Rank cheating?

[bcass]

Would you consider it cheating if you were able to view rank in a game that did not originally let you view it? E.g. Muchi Muchi Pork on the X360 lets you view a rank bar that was not originally viewable in the PCB release. Not sure how I feel about it yet, but it's been on my mind as I intend to clear some STGs in the near future where the console ports have this option present. Is a run less of an achievement with rank visible in this way?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I can't think of a situation where it's a big deal. You always have a rank indicator in the game, namely how hard the game itself is! There's plenty of games with variable rank where you can tell easily if rank is low or high just by looking at the density of bullets on screen and such. I think generally in games with rank, the thing that REALLY gives you an advantage isn't the rank meter itself, but knowing what and how rank is affected... which is a natural part of learning the game and developing strategies for games where rank control can help (such as knowing autofire speeds of 6.6 hz or less won't up rank in Gun Frontier or knowing that loop 2's revenge bullets in Donpachi are handled completely differently and are FAR harder if haven't died yet).

So, technically a rank bar is giving you a bit of more precision in terms of getting a feel for what rank you're at, but you can get a feel for rank without a rank meter in a game, so no, I don't think rank bars in console ports add a huge advantage let alone qualify as cheating.

[To Far Away Times]

If it's like M2 style gadgets in a port I wouldn't consider it cheating. That's part of the port.

If you IPS patch a rom to display information that's not normally there then I would consider that cheating.

But also, I'll play Darius Gaiden with autofire since that's the Japanese arcade standard. And that wasn't what the developers intended, I'm sure. So I guess it's just on a case by case basis? As long as it's community accepted, I guess?

Just do what feels right and only worry about it if you're going for high scores.

[pegboy]

If it's like M2 style gadgets in a port I wouldn't consider it cheating. That's part of the port.

If you IPS patch a rom to display information that's not normally there then I would consider that cheating.

But also, I'll play Darius Gaiden with autofire since that's the Japanese arcade standard. And that wasn't what the developers intended, I'm sure. So I guess it's just on a case by case basis? As long as it's community accepted, I guess?

Just do what feels right and only worry about it if you're going for high scores.

If anything, the M2 ports give you way more info than a simple patch would since they also add visuals and other cues that would be much harder to see just watching values in memory or whatever hack you could make. Also none of that stuff was ever intended by the developers otherwise they would have put it into the original games. I think that new developers and companies added this stuff into official ports decades later doesn't legitimatize it either IMO.

THAT SAID In general I think it's more of a "crutch" than a cheat.

I think for those getting high scores or even just basic 1cc's most players already intuitively know or can "feel" this information. I suppose for certain games knowing the exact value at all times might make some crazy difference and maybe in that case it could be considered cheating but I'm not really aware of such a game.

Personally when I was messing around with Twin Eagle recently I actually discovered where in memory the rank value was kept using the MAME debugger. It was kind of interesting to see while studying the game but at the end of the day knowing the actual values at all times wasn't useful in live runs.

[copy-paster]

Watching the game rank is cheating, using autofire is cheating, using save states/stage select for practice modes is cheating, using ports/emulators for clearing is cheating (because it will never be accurate to PCB). If you use any of these consider to never play shmups completely because we have triple standard.

Spoiler

fuck it just play what works for you, it's not like you're going to see the rank bar all the time and I wouldn't consider it cheating even the recent Ketsui WR holder use the gadgets and people still highly appreciate it.

[pegboy]

Moglar apparently did not use gadgets according to the video description. Im sure that was intentional so someone wouldn't question his record. I guess when you view it as a replay it shows the gadgets, I don't know how that port works, only ever played it in mame and pcb

Honestly that's like the only time I think people might call it into question if you are literally going for an established world record. Even then you will still have people saying it isnt legit unless it's played line in an arcade on pcb.

For the record I don't think using gadgets is "cheating" but I also don't see the difference between that and using a patched ROM like the OP mentioned. Both are modified versions of the game.

[Sumez]

I think it's comparable to, say, adding a boss life bar to a game that doesn't normally have it, yet benefits from some action tied to how you deliver the final blow.

In that sense, yeah it's cheating. But at the same time not having that info clearly available to you in the first place IMO does nothing good for the game anyway.

[Creamy Goodness]

I kind of see it like using autofire in games that did not have it originally. Yeah it helps out, but not sure it creates a massive advantage. And generally if a game adds a rank meter then the rank system is usually so relentless that it takes the fun away from the game. So seeing the rank will actually make the game somewhat playable.

[Rastan78]

I think a rank graph is more useful as a training tool for learning how a game works and planning routes. For a survival clear it's not going to give you a huge unfair advantage.

My advice would be make full use of gadgets while learning. If it's important to you to feel like you got the clear under the same conditions as the PCB just turn them off when going for the clear.

No one is going to be like dude that's a fake clear if you had a rank graph on. Like pegboy said when it comes to a legit world record that might be different. Then it should definitely be noted whether gadgets were used. And if you want to verify gadgets off you have to record the run live. On M2 ports the saved replay will run with whatever the current settings are not what the settings were at the time of the run.

[blazinglazers69]

My question to these kinds of things is why does it matter? Even if you have a youtube channel to record your clears you can always just indicate that it's there or mention it as a note in a list.

At the end of the day, it's just you and the game, fellas. If you feel a nagging sense of "cheating"than simply follow your gut. Why are you playing? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you participating in an organized challenge online or just trying to 1cc or submit a score to a board?

"Am I have fun?" is the most important question.

[Klatrymadon]

I think it's comparable to, say, adding a boss life bar to a game that doesn't normally have it, yet benefits from some action tied to how you deliver the final blow.

In that sense, yeah it's cheating. But at the same time not having that info clearly available to you in the first place IMO does nothing good for the game anyway.

Yeah, this is how I think about it. Lifting the veil on a game's core mechanics and allowing yourself to engage with them more fully shouldn't be considered cheating - obscuring important systems like rank in the first place only benefitted arcade operators, not players.

(As others have said, just knock the info off again if you're concerned about questions of arcade authenticity.)