Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improve
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Naramgamjan
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Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improve
Greetings everyone. Long time lurker, but decided I should take up the guts to register and start posting. I'm always intimidated by joining up new forums, but over the years, some people have told me this one is welcoming, so I decided to finally give it a go.
First of all, if this isn't the kind of post that's allowed or the kind of question that's been answered a zillion times, my apologies, I'd just like some good knowledgeable answers by people that have played far more shmups than I have and I feel this is the best place to ask.
I've been playing STG's for a very long time once in a while but I usually was pretty bad at them, until I've truly gotten into them about five years ago, however I play several genres of games so my gaming time isn't completely dedicated to shmups.
My skills in them have definitely improved over those past five years, but I feel like I'm trying to brush up skills at the wrong place. Most of my playtime on STGs are some earlier CAVE titles, but I've spent a decent chunk of time on Treasure, Raizing and Tecnosoft titles as well.
I've been trying to grind some 1CCs for a while on some games, but I feel they may be a bit out of my league right now and I'm a bit ambitious.
So far, I've only accomplished 2 1CC's, which are MUSHA Normal and ChoRenSha 68K (1 loop). The former took less than 5 hours, whilst ChoRenSha took me roughly 15 to 20 hours.
Most of my grinding time went to DoDonPachi 1-loop (Best is 3CC, can do 1-4 on one credit reliably, 1-5 sometimes) and Ikaruga (3CC on Easy, usually lose my first credit on Stage 4 and it's only downhill from there), yet I feel like my skills in the aforementioned games have been stagnant for some time.
My actual question is as follows : If I wanted to gradually learn to get better at the genre through the grinding of 1CC's, what would be, in your opinion, the best course of games I should go through? What games are accessible enough to 1CC without sinking hundreds of hours, and when I've cleared those, which ones should be next that would feel like an organic difficulty curve considering my current experience? Any era of release is fine, I'm not picky on clunkier or dated mechanics.
I should mention that I barely watch any videos of gameplay either, or have yet to read any tutorial at all in any game I've been practicing since I like to learn and adapt on my own as much as possible.
There's a lot of companies out there that I haven't thoroughly explored the library of yet, namely Irem, Compile, Toaplan and surely more I can't remember right now. The only company I didn't enjoy games from very much so far was Psikyo, except for the first Strikers 1945, the rest of the games I tried from that company has left a bitter taste.
Sorry if this is a bit meaty for a first post, but in case,
TL;DR : New blood, been playing STGs more often in past 5 years, would like to know the "ideal" difficulty curve to truly learn, familiarize with and eventually master the genre and discuss opinions on what series of games makes a good difficulty curve to get better at the genre as a whole.
I hope to have great discussions in here with people who are passionate about the genre. Thanks for looking!
Cheers.
First of all, if this isn't the kind of post that's allowed or the kind of question that's been answered a zillion times, my apologies, I'd just like some good knowledgeable answers by people that have played far more shmups than I have and I feel this is the best place to ask.
I've been playing STG's for a very long time once in a while but I usually was pretty bad at them, until I've truly gotten into them about five years ago, however I play several genres of games so my gaming time isn't completely dedicated to shmups.
My skills in them have definitely improved over those past five years, but I feel like I'm trying to brush up skills at the wrong place. Most of my playtime on STGs are some earlier CAVE titles, but I've spent a decent chunk of time on Treasure, Raizing and Tecnosoft titles as well.
I've been trying to grind some 1CCs for a while on some games, but I feel they may be a bit out of my league right now and I'm a bit ambitious.
So far, I've only accomplished 2 1CC's, which are MUSHA Normal and ChoRenSha 68K (1 loop). The former took less than 5 hours, whilst ChoRenSha took me roughly 15 to 20 hours.
Most of my grinding time went to DoDonPachi 1-loop (Best is 3CC, can do 1-4 on one credit reliably, 1-5 sometimes) and Ikaruga (3CC on Easy, usually lose my first credit on Stage 4 and it's only downhill from there), yet I feel like my skills in the aforementioned games have been stagnant for some time.
My actual question is as follows : If I wanted to gradually learn to get better at the genre through the grinding of 1CC's, what would be, in your opinion, the best course of games I should go through? What games are accessible enough to 1CC without sinking hundreds of hours, and when I've cleared those, which ones should be next that would feel like an organic difficulty curve considering my current experience? Any era of release is fine, I'm not picky on clunkier or dated mechanics.
I should mention that I barely watch any videos of gameplay either, or have yet to read any tutorial at all in any game I've been practicing since I like to learn and adapt on my own as much as possible.
There's a lot of companies out there that I haven't thoroughly explored the library of yet, namely Irem, Compile, Toaplan and surely more I can't remember right now. The only company I didn't enjoy games from very much so far was Psikyo, except for the first Strikers 1945, the rest of the games I tried from that company has left a bitter taste.
Sorry if this is a bit meaty for a first post, but in case,
TL;DR : New blood, been playing STGs more often in past 5 years, would like to know the "ideal" difficulty curve to truly learn, familiarize with and eventually master the genre and discuss opinions on what series of games makes a good difficulty curve to get better at the genre as a whole.
I hope to have great discussions in here with people who are passionate about the genre. Thanks for looking!
Cheers.
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
One thing I want to mention, that may not be immediately obvious, is that you can turn on Autofire for games where that isn't built into the game already. This will make games easier to varying degrees and you can more easily avoid hand injury, too!Greetings everyone. Long time lurker, but decided I should take up the guts to register and start posting. I'm always intimidated by joining up new forums, but over the years, some people have told me this one is welcoming, so I decided to finally give it a go.
First of all, if this isn't the kind of post that's allowed or the kind of question that's been answered a zillion times, my apologies, I'd just like some good knowledgeable answers by people that have played far more shmups than I have and I feel this is the best place to ask.
I've been playing STG's for a very long time once in a while but I usually was pretty bad at them, until I've truly gotten into them about five years ago, however I play several genres of games so my gaming time isn't completely dedicated to shmups.
My skills in them have definitely improved over those past five years, but I feel like I'm trying to brush up skills at the wrong place. Most of my playtime on STGs are some earlier CAVE titles, but I've spent a decent chunk of time on Treasure, Raizing and Tecnosoft titles as well.
I've been trying to grind some 1CCs for a while on some games, but I feel they may be a bit out of my league right now and I'm a bit ambitious.
So far, I've only accomplished 2 1CC's, which are MUSHA Normal and ChoRenSha 68K (1 loop). The former took less than 5 hours, whilst ChoRenSha took me roughly 15 to 20 hours.
Most of my grinding time went to DoDonPachi 1-loop (Best is 3CC, can do 1-4 on one credit reliably, 1-5 sometimes) and Ikaruga (3CC on Easy, usually lose my first credit on Stage 4 and it's only downhill from there), yet I feel like my skills in the aforementioned games have been stagnant for some time.
It sounds like you're already on the right path in terms of exploring games. Exploring multiple games to find out what sticks and what you're interested can never be a bad thing. Just be aware that as your skills grow, so might your perception of those games. Some of which you might love now, might become boring as you get better, or vice versa some might seem offputting but you'll find them fun once better...My actual question is as follows : If I wanted to gradually learn to get better at the genre through the grinding of 1CC's, what would be, in your opinion, the best course of games I should go through? What games are accessible enough to 1CC without sinking hundreds of hours, and when I've cleared those, which ones should be next that would feel like an organic difficulty curve considering my current experience? Any era of release is fine, I'm not picky on clunkier or dated mechanics.
But I would like to give my 5 cents with regards to game choices.
First of all for CAVE games, starting with DP, DDP, EspGaluda, DeathSmiles, or novice modes for later games for early CAVE 1ccs, is good because these are among the easier ones. When you can handle these games, you can try to graduate to things like Ketsui.
For Raizing, you have Bakraid and Batrider Normal modes, in addition to Western versions of Sorcer Striker and Kingdom Grandprix to try 1ccs in. The latter two are significantly easier than their Japanese counterparts. When you can handle these, you can try things like Garegga, Dimahoo, or Advanced Courses.
As you seem to be well aware, console titles are often significantly easier than arcade ones. PC games are often like this too. I would recommend Touhou series on Normal mode, as that is easier than arcade games, and graduate to Lunatic mode when comfortable, as that is similar difficulty or slightly harder than arcade. Try the series from 6 to 12.8 as 13 onwards is worse, and as for the PC-98 games, the first two are weak.
Now I wouldn't wanna look past older arcade shmups either from the 80s. Out of these, two stand out to me as being good for beginners, to learn to understand how the genre works: Hishouzame and Gradius. These aren't necessarily easy but they're not that hard either, kinda like Cave games like DDP.
1ccing Gradius teaches you a lot about how to think about horizontal shooters, while 1ccing Hishouzame teaches you a lot about how to think about vertical ones. Games like DDP build on games like Hishouzame. If Hishouzame isn't as much to your liking you can try Twin Cobra, just make sure to play the Western version for your 1cc as the Japanese one is pretty tough.
From Irem games, I find R-Type Leo to be a good game for beginners. It's not too hard or punishing. For Taito, try Darius Gaiden. For Konami, maybe Salamander II.
Some arcade shmups that are considered among the easiest can be found here: viewtopic.php?p=1157621#p1157621
I can personally vouch for many of the games considered easy.
While there's nothing inherently wrong with this, you currently do not have the the fundamentals required to really figure things out yourself.I should mention that I barely watch any videos of gameplay either, or have yet to read any tutorial at all in any game I've been practicing since I like to learn and adapt on my own as much as possible.
Watching gameplay by others can and will (if you try to learn) inspire your problem solving skills. When you are a better player, you can do things yourself much more easily. That's why I think you should watch some gameplay, too. Plus, watching gameplay can show gameplay mechanics you didn't know existed.
Good luck and enjoy your stay.I hope to have great discussions in here with people who are passionate about the genre. Thanks for looking!
Cheers.
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To Far Away Times
- Posts: 2060
- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:42 am
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
I always recommend Futari 1.5 Black Label Original. It was my gateway drug. Probably the single best game in the genre. Its also comparable to ChoRenSha in terms of difficulty. Not a freebie clear but on the easier side of things. I'd guess most people who've cleared a shmup before should be able to clear it after a little practice. It doesn't really demand too much in terms of input execution, just knowing the level layouts is enough to 1CC.
Also seconding Kingdom Grandprix if you want an easy arcade 1CC. Pick Miyamoto and use the homing shot. I'm sure you'll find it easier than the your previous clears.
Also seconding Kingdom Grandprix if you want an easy arcade 1CC. Pick Miyamoto and use the homing shot. I'm sure you'll find it easier than the your previous clears.
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
Yes, Hishouzame is incredible. Absolutely do not miss that game. Basically vertical shooting evolved from what Hishouzame did, as the game had a very heavy influence on pretty much everything that came after it, so it's probably one of the best verticals out there to learn on. Fortunately, it just got rereleased exactly 7 days ago, so if you have a PS4, PS5, or Switch, there you go.
Another Toaplan game you absolutely must try is my beloved Slap Fight MD, which has both the original Slap Fight and the actual Slap Fight MD on the cartridge. Yeah, I know, I talk about this game all the time, but it's so damn fun. They have a ton of secrets to find to boost your score, but you can only find them with certain weapons, which are typically the best weapons for those specific sections anyway, so they will teach you proper weapon use while also being just so damn fun to play. Definitely play both Slap Fights on the Mega Drive.
A lot of Toaplan games are quite punishing upon death, but Hishouzame, Slap Fight, and Slap Fight MD have easy recovery in most situations, which will probably help avoid frustration from being stuck in checkpoint hell and these games are also really fun, especially Slap Fight MD. Speaking of Toaplan checkpoint hell, also try Zero Wing on the Mega Drive for great justice, as that's also fairly approachable, but know that it has some nasty checkpoints in stage 7. I think Zero Wing is a bit of an acquired taste, and I waver between loving every minute of it and finding the first half of the game boring as hell, but it's still a nice entry-level game.
Crimzon Clover novice mode is actually very approachable as well, and I believe it was designed specifically for that purpose. Even my dumb no-skill never-plays-bullet-hell ass got a 1CC on it like the second or third time I played it.
Eschatos on easy should probably be fine, as well. I don't really know how much it will teach you, especially since there is nothing to lose when you die other than extends, so you won't learn recovery from it, but it will give you a ton of extends from killing shit.
If you want stuff that is easy to pick up and play, Thunder Force III and Thunder Force AC are about as approachable as it gets, but AC with autofire is marginally easier than III is. Both are easy targets for your first no miss. In the early stages, they also tend to drop weapons right before a section where that specific weapon is really useful, so they can teach you proper weapon use in the early stages.
Another Toaplan game you absolutely must try is my beloved Slap Fight MD, which has both the original Slap Fight and the actual Slap Fight MD on the cartridge. Yeah, I know, I talk about this game all the time, but it's so damn fun. They have a ton of secrets to find to boost your score, but you can only find them with certain weapons, which are typically the best weapons for those specific sections anyway, so they will teach you proper weapon use while also being just so damn fun to play. Definitely play both Slap Fights on the Mega Drive.
A lot of Toaplan games are quite punishing upon death, but Hishouzame, Slap Fight, and Slap Fight MD have easy recovery in most situations, which will probably help avoid frustration from being stuck in checkpoint hell and these games are also really fun, especially Slap Fight MD. Speaking of Toaplan checkpoint hell, also try Zero Wing on the Mega Drive for great justice, as that's also fairly approachable, but know that it has some nasty checkpoints in stage 7. I think Zero Wing is a bit of an acquired taste, and I waver between loving every minute of it and finding the first half of the game boring as hell, but it's still a nice entry-level game.
Crimzon Clover novice mode is actually very approachable as well, and I believe it was designed specifically for that purpose. Even my dumb no-skill never-plays-bullet-hell ass got a 1CC on it like the second or third time I played it.
Eschatos on easy should probably be fine, as well. I don't really know how much it will teach you, especially since there is nothing to lose when you die other than extends, so you won't learn recovery from it, but it will give you a ton of extends from killing shit.
If you want stuff that is easy to pick up and play, Thunder Force III and Thunder Force AC are about as approachable as it gets, but AC with autofire is marginally easier than III is. Both are easy targets for your first no miss. In the early stages, they also tend to drop weapons right before a section where that specific weapon is really useful, so they can teach you proper weapon use in the early stages.
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Jasonbartfast
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Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
ZeroRanger was my first 1cc. It has some nice practice options (stage select includes ship and upgrade options), and Jaimers's video on YouTube was a really great resource. I think it took about 50 hours of serious play and it was a ton of fun. I probably could have done it sooner if I had a setup more conducive to shmup play.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56114Naramgamjan wrote:My actual question is as follows : If I wanted to gradually learn to get better at the genre through the grinding of 1CC's, what would be, in your opinion, the best course of games I should go through? What games are accessible enough to 1CC without sinking hundreds of hours, and when I've cleared those, which ones should be next that would feel like an organic difficulty curve considering my current experience?
This list only covers arcade releases but is a good rough guideline in terms of relative difficulty.
Good games to check out if you're just getting into fleshing out your 1CC list would be something like Vastynex or Blue Wish Resurrection.
Also consider checking out the 1CC thread; people make a post, then keep editing that post as a spot to log 1CCs they've gotten. If a lot of people are listing the same 1CC, it might be a reasonable guideline that it's a fun game worth looking into for you: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1944
This will be a barrier to improving. It's fine to learn a game from scratch yourself of course, but it's helpful to watch at least a video or look up instructions instead of going in blind; it'd suck to miss that there's some kind of helpful and essential mechanic or something depending on the game.I should mention that I barely watch any videos of gameplay either, or have yet to read any tutorial at all in any game I've been practicing since I like to learn and adapt on my own as much as possible.
For reference, in an arcade setting it's quite reasonable to watch other people as they play and be able to ask them for tips and whatnot. It'd be considered very unusual and antisocial for a player not to respond to questions by another aspiring players, so think of watching videos as a way of getting access to the same kind of resource players in an actual arcade would potentially have.
This. Very much this. There are many older archaic games which do not have autofire where using autofire to minimize button mashing and hand injury is the norm, to the extent that quality game centers in Japan will have autofire buttons setup for appropriate games on the arcade cabinets.chum wrote:One thing I want to mention, that may not be immediately obvious, is that you can turn on Autofire for games where that isn't built into the game already. This will make games easier to varying degrees and you can more easily avoid hand injury, too!
If you feel autofire makes it too easy, don't use something inhuman like 20 or 30 hz. Set it to something you could realistically achieve even if it's not for an hour long sustained period of time like 10 hz.
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
Someone pointed out this very nice list aimed at beginners (games mostly on Steam or consoles), with 3 grades of challenges. It was attributed to Shmup Junkie (although I can't actually confirm that just now, it being a random Google Doc)
Shmup Beginners Training Challenges
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... M/htmlview
The third grade might be suitable, or could be readily tweaked for added difficulty. In any case, as someone between beginner and intermediate I've seen good gainz from picking off easier targets on this list. Possibly faster gains than by just grinding away at my Cave aspiration of choice (Mushi); the variety and steady progress are enticing.
Shmup Beginners Training Challenges
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... M/htmlview
The third grade might be suitable, or could be readily tweaked for added difficulty. In any case, as someone between beginner and intermediate I've seen good gainz from picking off easier targets on this list. Possibly faster gains than by just grinding away at my Cave aspiration of choice (Mushi); the variety and steady progress are enticing.
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
Darius Gaiden with autofire. Take the easy route A-B-D-H-L-Q-V.
I'm almost there with Mushihimesama Original. I'd recommend that. You could do Novice first in the Steam port.
Deathsmiles.
I'm almost there with Mushihimesama Original. I'd recommend that. You could do Novice first in the Steam port.
Deathsmiles.
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Naramgamjan
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Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
Wow, thanks a lot everyone for your insight! There's a fair amount of STG's listed here in your replies that I've played before but I've only cleared with multiple credits and most I haven't actually practiced much. As mentionned by several of you, I'm also using autofire pretty much all the time, my fingers can't handle mashing for extended periods of time anymore. As for my habit of only being self-taught, the lesson is definitely learned there! I can see by what you folks have told me that reading up and watching videos seems pretty essential, so I'll make due with breaking the habit of always going blind for STG's. As for the shmup difficulty list, I did come across that in the past whilst lurking, but I only checked where the STGs I played regularly ranked, and haven't taken the time to discover more games in the list, so I'll have to scour that post with more depth.
I played through it twice but I did it in arcade mode, not novice, I should give novice a go.
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Overall, I'm super pleased with the replies so far, and again, thank you very much everyone! I'm gonna be busy all month with all the recommendations, but I'm sure glad I posted here. Already purchased a few titles mentioned and I'll be on the lookout for the rest. I've been holed away from most online communities for a very long time, but this one definitely feels like a good one so far.
I've only played DP and DDP, I've mostly played the Saturn version of DP but I played the arcade a few days ago and found the game significantly better and harder, my gut tells me it's a really bad port so I'll drop the Sat version. The other games I've heard of them quite a lot, so I'm due with trying them out.chum wrote: First of all for CAVE games, starting with DP, DDP, EspGaluda, DeathSmiles, or novice modes for later games for early CAVE 1ccs, is good because these are among the easier ones. When you can handle these games, you can try to graduate to things like Ketsui.
Incidentally, the only Raizing games I've played on here are Garegga and Dimahoo. I've spent a good chunk of time with Soukyugurentai, but I will definitely try them all as I really love their design and the concept of their ranking system.chum wrote: For Raizing, you have Bakraid and Batrider Normal modes, in addition to Western versions of Sorcer Striker and Kingdom Grandprix to try 1ccs in. The latter two are significantly easier than their Japanese counterparts. When you can handle these, you can try things like Garegga, Dimahoo, or Advanced Courses.
I've actually been meaning to try Touhou, and I mean't to start with the PC-98 titles, so this is good information to have! I'll skip straight to 6. The artstyle isn't my thing at all but I've been meaning to look past that and just enjoy the game design.chum wrote:I would recommend Touhou series on Normal mode, as that is easier than arcade games, and graduate to Lunatic mode when comfortable, as that is similar difficulty or slightly harder than arcade. Try the series from 6 to 12.8 as 13 onwards is worse, and as for the PC-98 games, the first two are weak.
I've played several shmups from the 80's and I enjoy them to a degree, though not nearly as much as ones from late 80's and onward. A good friend of mine has been recommending me Zanac a lot, I have the cart but I've yet to play it. I've played Gradius on the NES a fair bit, however I've never tried Hishouzame, matter of fact I think it's one of the only Toaplan games I've never even tried.chum wrote: Now I wouldn't wanna look past older arcade shmups either from the 80s. Out of these, two stand out to me as being good for beginners, to learn to understand how the genre works: Hishouzame and Gradius. These aren't necessarily easy but they're not that hard either, kinda like Cave games like DDP.
I've played Twin Cobra on Genesis a few times and got absolutely mauled by stage 5, I'll try the original arcade version and see how well it fares compared to the Gen port.chum wrote:If Hishouzame isn't as much to your liking you can try Twin Cobra, just make sure to play the Western version for your 1cc as the Japanese one is pretty tough.
All three games I've never played, I played R-Type 2 at an arcade in the past but that's it.chum wrote:From Irem games, I find R-Type Leo to be a good game for beginners. It's not too hard or punishing. For Taito, try Darius Gaiden. For Konami, maybe Salamander II.
I've never played Futari 1.5 yet, but Mushihimesama is a series I was meaning to pick up for some time! Thanks for the tips on Kingdom Grandprix as well, I've been meaning to try this out since it seems related to Dimahoo.To Far Away Times wrote:I always recommend Futari 1.5 Black Label Original. It was my gateway drug. Probably the single best game in the genre. Its also comparable to ChoRenSha in terms of difficulty. Not a freebie clear but on the easier side of things. I'd guess most people who've cleared a shmup before should be able to clear it after a little practice. It doesn't really demand too much in terms of input execution, just knowing the level layouts is enough to 1CC.
Also seconding Kingdom Grandprix if you want an easy arcade 1CC. Pick Miyamoto and use the homing shot. I'm sure you'll find it easier than the your previous clears.
Duly noted! I think I own the NES version and played it in the past but don't remember much of it, but I'll definitely go ahead and grab the PS4 version as the NES version probably isn't the best way to play that.Steven wrote:Yes, Hishouzame is incredible. Absolutely do not miss that game. Basically vertical shooting evolved from what Hishouzame did, as the game had a very heavy influence on pretty much everything that came after it, so it's probably one of the best verticals out there to learn on. Fortunately, it just got rereleased exactly 7 days ago, so if you have a PS4, PS5, or Switch, there you go.
Now here's one I've yet to play, but I've been recommended this game for a really long time. I think I'll fire up the Gen and give it a go!Steven wrote:Another Toaplan game you absolutely must try is my beloved Slap Fight MD, which has both the original Slap Fight and the actual Slap Fight MD on the cartridge. Yeah, I know, I talk about this game all the time, but it's so damn fun. They have a ton of secrets to find to boost your score, but you can only find them with certain weapons, which are typically the best weapons for those specific sections anyway, so they will teach you proper weapon use while also being just so damn fun to play. Definitely play both Slap Fights on the Mega Drive.
Honestly, I quite enjoy Zero Wing to a degree, I think I got to the last stage once but got stuck there. Take off every Zig!Steven wrote:Also try Zero Wing on the Mega Drive for great justice, as that's also fairly approachable, but know that it has some nasty checkpoints in stage 7. I think Zero Wing is a bit of an acquired taste, and I waver between loving every minute of it and finding the first half of the game boring as hell, but it's still a nice entry-level game.
Steven wrote:Crimzon Clover novice mode is actually very approachable as well, and I believe it was designed specifically for that purpose. Even my dumb no-skill never-plays-bullet-hell ass got a 1CC on it like the second or third time I played it.
I played through it twice but I did it in arcade mode, not novice, I should give novice a go.
Never heard of this one. I'll add it to the pile!Steven wrote:Eschatos on easy should probably be fine, as well. I don't really know how much it will teach you, especially since there is nothing to lose when you die other than extends, so you won't learn recovery from it, but it will give you a ton of extends from killing shit.
Already cleared both! I was pretty close to a 1CC of III on the Genesis, but for some reason I didn't go for it yet. Perhaps I'll revisit it one day.Steven wrote:If you want stuff that is easy to pick up and play, Thunder Force III and Thunder Force AC are about as approachable as it gets, but AC with autofire is marginally easier than III is. Both are easy targets for your first no miss. In the early stages, they also tend to drop weapons right before a section where that specific weapon is really useful, so they can teach you proper weapon use in the early stages.
I did play about five hours of ZeroRanger, really loved the design of it, but I've only cleared the first loop so far and I've put it down since.Jasonbartfast wrote:ZeroRanger was my first 1cc. It has some nice practice options (stage select includes ship and upgrade options), and Jaimers's video on YouTube was a really great resource. I think it took about 50 hours of serious play and it was a ton of fun. I probably could have done it sooner if I had a setup more conducive to shmup play.
Both games I've never even heard of, so good to see some new names pop up! As for the thread, that's a pretty cool resource, it's really nice to see so many people keeping their list up to date. I'll be reading that later on!BareKnuckleRoo wrote: Good games to check out if you're just getting into fleshing out your 1CC list would be something like Vastynex or Blue Wish Resurrection.
Also consider checking out the 1CC thread; people make a post, then keep editing that post as a spot to log 1CCs they've gotten. If a lot of people are listing the same 1CC, it might be a reasonable guideline that it's a fun game worth looking into for you: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1944
Again, another great resource! I was however completely unaware of this one as I've only been mostly browsing this forum and not super often at that, so I definitely missed some stuff. Thank you!dojo_b wrote:Someone pointed out this very nice list aimed at beginners (games mostly on Steam or consoles), with 3 grades of challenges. It was attributed to Shmup Junkie (although I can't actually confirm that just now, it being a random Google Doc)
The third grade might be suitable, or could be readily tweaked for added difficulty. In any case, as someone between beginner and intermediate I've seen good gainz from picking off easier targets on this list. Possibly faster gains than by just grinding away at my Cave aspiration of choice (Mushi); the variety and steady progress are enticing.
I've heard of Deathsmiles a lot, as well as Darius Gaiden, but I've yet to play either. Thanks for the route! I'll try this out and the rest in the upcoming weeks.davyK wrote:Darius Gaiden with autofire. Take the easy route A-B-D-H-L-Q-V.
I'm almost there with Mushihimesama Original. I'd recommend that. You could do Novice first in the Steam port.
Deathsmiles.
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Overall, I'm super pleased with the replies so far, and again, thank you very much everyone! I'm gonna be busy all month with all the recommendations, but I'm sure glad I posted here. Already purchased a few titles mentioned and I'll be on the lookout for the rest. I've been holed away from most online communities for a very long time, but this one definitely feels like a good one so far.
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- Posts: 66
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:41 pm
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
Storm Blade (Vertical SHMUP)
An intermediate player should be able to 1CC that on MAME with little to no practice.
Hacha Mecha Fighter (Horizontal SHMUP)
Also on MAME. Looks like a game designed for kids, the last part is a real bastard but you should be able to 1CC it fairly consistently.
An intermediate player should be able to 1CC that on MAME with little to no practice.
Hacha Mecha Fighter (Horizontal SHMUP)
Also on MAME. Looks like a game designed for kids, the last part is a real bastard but you should be able to 1CC it fairly consistently.
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To Far Away Times
- Posts: 2060
- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:42 am
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
With regard to Touhou I think 06, 07, and 08 are by far the best ones, but I wouldn't recommend playing them in that order. The games can be played in any order and the stories are all standalone.
Touhou 06 is rougher than the two following games. Perfect Cherry Blossom and Imperishable Night are the perfect onboarding games. They're noticeably more player friendly. Imperishable night was my first ever 1CC, in part because it has a very generous death bomb window and a really great spell practice mode that isn't in the other two games.
Touhou 06 is where a lot of the fan favorite characters and music come from, but it's also a little less polished in some areas.
Touhou 06 is rougher than the two following games. Perfect Cherry Blossom and Imperishable Night are the perfect onboarding games. They're noticeably more player friendly. Imperishable night was my first ever 1CC, in part because it has a very generous death bomb window and a really great spell practice mode that isn't in the other two games.
Touhou 06 is where a lot of the fan favorite characters and music come from, but it's also a little less polished in some areas.
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
I forgot some stuff. First, definitely read this: https://archive.org/details/full-extent ... h/mode/2up
There's also a different difficulty list that is generally considered to be better/more accurate: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59651
Now this list was made by someone who was recently discovered to be a cheater. Fortunately, that doesn't really have much impact on the accuracy of this list from what I have been told. The other list is quite odd. Same! Same! Same! at 14 while using autofire? I don't think so. Absolutely no way.
Some other random recommendations: I see you've played Battle Garegga, but have you tried Battle Garegga Rev.2016 Premium mode? It is a very nice game mode and will allow you to enjoy an altered version of Battle Garegga without getting too beat up in the process. Garegga itself is not exactly an easy game, but the Premium mode is very pleasant to play and a lot of fun.
I also want to second R-Type Leo. It's going to turn up the difficulty in the final few stages, but it's a lot of fun and it looks and sounds amazing. It doesn't play like other R-Type games, though.
I see you've played Soukyuugurentai. That is something else that I'd normally recommend. I met a guy who made the game at a shooting games event last month and he said to play the Saturn version because that's the best version, so yeah, play the Saturn version. As I'm sure you know, the game will give you a bit of a beating on normal in the final few stages until you know what to do, but on the easiest settings it's pretty manageable. It's a great game.
Anyway, yeah, Slap Fight MD. What an amazing game. Just remembering that it exists made me want to play it, so I did. It was just as excellent as it was the last time I played it. I talk about this game all the time and I'm sure everyone is tired of it, but too bad lol. Just mentioning it here makes me want to play it again, so I am going to do that right now.
Important: I wouldn't go buy a huge heap of (sometimes expensive) games and jump around between them all at once, though. I know that's what you don't want to do because that's what I do all the time and I am pretty terrible. As I'm still relatively new as well, with only about a year of playing seriously, I jumped in, bought a shitload of (expensive) games and now I suck at most of them. My account here actually predates me taking these games seriously. Most of my clears have been on easier console games (Thunder Force, etc.), but I have been getting better about practicing recently, as I picked up 2 new arcade clears just this week (Hishouzame, both with and without autofire, and Same! Same! Same! 2P).
Pick a game, learn it well, using easier modes at first if available, and then master it. I suppose you can mostly learn Thunder Force III or AC by playing the other, but even then you'd still have to account for the different stages. III has that one stage where it's like "hey dude, here's a rock that will suddenly fall on your head and kill you! Die!", so yeah. Pick a game you like and stick with it. Play other stuff to take breaks, alleviate frustration, or to check stuff out to see what you like, but I'd definitely choose a single game and stick with it for a while.
Basically what I decided to do was to pick a great developer (Toaplan) and check out all of their games to see which ones I really like and practice those a lot. It also just happens that Toaplan design philosophy is exactly what I want in a shooting game (checkpoints + strict routing), so those games appeal to me. I am taking a break from Kyuukyoku Tiger to check out Hishouzame right now due to frustration with Kyuukyoku Tiger's stage 5, but I'm going to resume practicing soon. Kyuukyoku Tiger is badass and makes you feel like a badass when you play it, but it's also very long and pretty tough. Even the international version, Twin Cobra, can be tough at times, and the game was really meant to be played with checkpoints, which Twin Cobra removed because it's a 2P game.
There's also a different difficulty list that is generally considered to be better/more accurate: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59651
Now this list was made by someone who was recently discovered to be a cheater. Fortunately, that doesn't really have much impact on the accuracy of this list from what I have been told. The other list is quite odd. Same! Same! Same! at 14 while using autofire? I don't think so. Absolutely no way.
Some other random recommendations: I see you've played Battle Garegga, but have you tried Battle Garegga Rev.2016 Premium mode? It is a very nice game mode and will allow you to enjoy an altered version of Battle Garegga without getting too beat up in the process. Garegga itself is not exactly an easy game, but the Premium mode is very pleasant to play and a lot of fun.
I also want to second R-Type Leo. It's going to turn up the difficulty in the final few stages, but it's a lot of fun and it looks and sounds amazing. It doesn't play like other R-Type games, though.
I see you've played Soukyuugurentai. That is something else that I'd normally recommend. I met a guy who made the game at a shooting games event last month and he said to play the Saturn version because that's the best version, so yeah, play the Saturn version. As I'm sure you know, the game will give you a bit of a beating on normal in the final few stages until you know what to do, but on the easiest settings it's pretty manageable. It's a great game.
Anyway, yeah, Slap Fight MD. What an amazing game. Just remembering that it exists made me want to play it, so I did. It was just as excellent as it was the last time I played it. I talk about this game all the time and I'm sure everyone is tired of it, but too bad lol. Just mentioning it here makes me want to play it again, so I am going to do that right now.
Important: I wouldn't go buy a huge heap of (sometimes expensive) games and jump around between them all at once, though. I know that's what you don't want to do because that's what I do all the time and I am pretty terrible. As I'm still relatively new as well, with only about a year of playing seriously, I jumped in, bought a shitload of (expensive) games and now I suck at most of them. My account here actually predates me taking these games seriously. Most of my clears have been on easier console games (Thunder Force, etc.), but I have been getting better about practicing recently, as I picked up 2 new arcade clears just this week (Hishouzame, both with and without autofire, and Same! Same! Same! 2P).
Pick a game, learn it well, using easier modes at first if available, and then master it. I suppose you can mostly learn Thunder Force III or AC by playing the other, but even then you'd still have to account for the different stages. III has that one stage where it's like "hey dude, here's a rock that will suddenly fall on your head and kill you! Die!", so yeah. Pick a game you like and stick with it. Play other stuff to take breaks, alleviate frustration, or to check stuff out to see what you like, but I'd definitely choose a single game and stick with it for a while.
Basically what I decided to do was to pick a great developer (Toaplan) and check out all of their games to see which ones I really like and practice those a lot. It also just happens that Toaplan design philosophy is exactly what I want in a shooting game (checkpoints + strict routing), so those games appeal to me. I am taking a break from Kyuukyoku Tiger to check out Hishouzame right now due to frustration with Kyuukyoku Tiger's stage 5, but I'm going to resume practicing soon. Kyuukyoku Tiger is badass and makes you feel like a badass when you play it, but it's also very long and pretty tough. Even the international version, Twin Cobra, can be tough at times, and the game was really meant to be played with checkpoints, which Twin Cobra removed because it's a 2P game.
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
It's not a traditional shmup, but have you considered Out Zone? I'm kind of surprised no one has mentioned it yet, it's an absolutely phenomenal game, not too tough while still providing some really interesting stage layouts and great art+music. The patterns are well designed, you can experiment with different weapons, and recoveries are actually possible. Easily in my top 5 games of any genre, and it seems like the perfect level of difficulty for what you want.
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
Yeah, Out Zone is a really awesome game. I suppose if you don't count Out Zone as a shooter just because it doesn't autoscroll you'd also have to do the same for In the Hunt. It's on the MiSTer now and it runs beautifully there, so I really do need to start learning how to play that game properly.
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
I second this. Always my go to recommendation. So much fun and if you want to go for scoring it's easy to understand. Can play at whatever difficulty you like.To Far Away Times wrote:I always recommend Futari 1.5 Black Label Original. It was my gateway drug. Probably the single best game in the genre. Its also comparable to ChoRenSha in terms of difficulty. Not a freebie clear but on the easier side of things. I'd guess most people who've cleared a shmup before should be able to clear it after a little practice. It doesn't really demand too much in terms of input execution, just knowing the level layouts is enough to 1CC.
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
I'd toss in SNES Gradius 3 Hard difficulty, then SNES Gradius 3 Arcade difficulty. Both would be intermediate to slightly advanced since the bullets do get pretty dense and fast.
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
Honestly, if one likes Gradius, Gradius Gaiden on PS1 is great and pretty intermediate (If not easyish?) in my opinion. The difficulty settings also scale up nicely and the game loops with some new extra boss patterns and small changes. It should give a good challenge to complete the game on normal first (Or easier if it feels difficult), and then see if you prefer completing extra loops or higher difficulties. If Gradius was something one likes, next step would be to try Gradius V (Or maybe Gradius 2 Arcade). Gradius V also scales quite nicely with difficulty selections, but is a tad long.Firehawke wrote:I'd toss in SNES Gradius 3 Hard difficulty, then SNES Gradius 3 Arcade difficulty. Both would be intermediate to slightly advanced since the bullets do get pretty dense and fast.
On Darius, my path was DariusBurst CS (The two screen AC mode in specific) -> Darius Gaiden -> G-Darius, but I played Gradius games first.
I'm much better at horizontal shmups however, but it's a good idea to play variety of games and see what types of games you like. I can't for the life of me complete something like DoDonPachi, but I was surprised how easily something like G-Darius went for me.
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- Posts: 66
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Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
Coryoon: Child of Dragon (PC Engine / Turbografx-16)
Incredibly rare and expensive game to find (usually $300-$800 unboxed cartridge-only on eBay) but also a very charming horizontal SHMUP, that is fairly easy to 1CC as it throws so many extra lives at you.
Really surprised nobody else mentioned this game yet.
Incredibly rare and expensive game to find (usually $300-$800 unboxed cartridge-only on eBay) but also a very charming horizontal SHMUP, that is fairly easy to 1CC as it throws so many extra lives at you.
Really surprised nobody else mentioned this game yet.

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third_strike
- Posts: 1207
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:34 pm
- Location: Brazil RJ
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
I believe that every new game brings new challenges, new frustrations and new joys. There are also different categories of games with different ways to approach . I only can say play what you find interesting, have some affection for the game and don't be too demanding with yourself, look for something more than just results. And if things be hard (and maybe it will be) pray for The Name of one of Shmups gods Icarus, Rob and Randorama.
Re: Ideal 1CC's for an intermediate player looking to improv
The intensely contentious JPN Arcade STG Difficulty table can be a good tool for something like this. I actually think a lot of the STGs in the #16 slot are perfect for intermediate play, and many of them are available this generation.
Hishouzame, Espgaluda, Out Zone, Dragon Spirit, (esp.) Gunnail, Futari 1.5, Donpachi, Fighting Hawk etc.
Hishouzame, Espgaluda, Out Zone, Dragon Spirit, (esp.) Gunnail, Futari 1.5, Donpachi, Fighting Hawk etc.