Zanac (NES) - a lesson in pain. Need advice!

[Mokebe]

Hello fellow gamers.

I'm a retro gaming fan that has conquered many games, many times with no death (or no continue at least) rule, incl. some that can be considered very hard, like TMNT1 on NES (no death run).

However, this one shmup, Zanac, keeps owning me mercilessly. Am I doing something wrong?

Here's my problem with the game: it's far too long and far too punishing on a single death. I mean... if I lose my upgraded weapons (and over an HOUR of bullet hell is pretty damn demanding), I may as well reset the game because I'm stuck with an incompetent ship that can't do anything at all against the vast majority of situations.

In my typical playthrough, I aim for Weapon 7 early on, use the level 3 "smiling face" to max it, and then I just try to stay alive. I usually make it to level 8, and then something kills me eventually because level 8 is insane. And then it's over, because the game's "ALC" (AI for changing difficulty on the fly) puts me in an impossible situation on restart. And that's it.

I know it's because the game scales the difficulty due to me pretty much cranking both of my fully upgraded weapons on AUTO (using the NES max turbo button) but without that, there's just too many damn bullets to dodge. So I keep firing my Weapon7 that destroys bullets, which makes the game spawn stronger enemies shooting more bullets, so I can't stop firing in an infinite screwed up loop.

I tried playing with other weapons, even got laser a few times (it's great), but it doesn't help the fact that eventually, I miss some stray bullet and die. I used warps a few times to skip level 8 and jump to 9, but that made me eat a stray bullet on level 9 (lol) and once I even got to 10, but died shortly after.

Am I right here? Is the game literally forcing me to do a no-death run, never losing my Weapon7/weapon5 upgraded to maximum? Because I really don't see the point of extra lives when you cannot do anything without upgraded weapons. Which you can't get right away and with unupgraded ships with high ALC tuneup you just die right away.

I did try to NOT fire almost at all to avoid difficulty increase, but some elements of the levels are scripted and will spawn specific enemies no matter what the ALC setting is. And those enemies give me hell with 1000000 bullets to avoid at the same time. Which means I'm effectively better off just firing the W7 and hoping for the best (which never comes).

It doesn't help that getting to level 9 takes like 40 mins, and a single death means game over. And there's still 3 more levels.

I beat the game but I had to use an emulator with save states (oh, the embarssment) to do so.

Any tips? Is there some trick I'm not aware of?

[Steven]

I have not played Zanac (yeah, I know, it's on my list of games to play, so I'll get there eventually...), but in general, practicing recovery is important. It sucks and I'm pretty sure nobody likes doing it, but it's very important. Using save states is the best way to practice efficiently, for that matter, so using them is highly encouraged.

There is a free book that you should read if you haven't already: https://archive.org/details/full-extent ... am-english

This book will help you a lot.

[Mokebe]

Thanks. Unfortunately, for the most part, Zanac isn't a game with a set layout, it cannot be memorized.

[pablumatic]

My strategy is much like yours. Max out weapon 7 and try to survive the really hard areas.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I haven't really played Zanac, but I have played Aleste which is pretty similar. The biggest threat I found was running out of special weapon charges. And, if you're using a power hungry weapon, you may well be forced to run out before a recharge becomes available. Is Weapon 7 causing this issue? The default weapon, Weapon 0, should be able to cancel bullets when it hits max power which is handy given it also has infinite ammo so give that a whirl if you're running out of ammo (and I think using Weapon 0 is also the easiest way to trigger the upgrade to the super wide default shot?).

If weapon 7 lasts long enough for ammo not to be an issue then yeah, not sure what to suggest.

[SuperDeadite]

Zanac is all about just chilling. Sometimes you will go 30 mins and never die. Other times you will die 10 times in 30 seconds. Just relax and ride it out. For what it's worth I still feel the original MSX1 version is the best.

[Steven]

Zanac is all about just chilling. Sometimes you will go 30 mins and never die. Other times you will die 10 times in 30 seconds. Just relax and ride it out. For what it's worth I still feel the original MSX1 version is the best.

In that case, it seems that learning recovery is in fact very important, then.

[SuperDeadite]

Zanac is all about just chilling. Sometimes you will go 30 mins and never die. Other times you will die 10 times in 30 seconds. Just relax and ride it out. For what it's worth I still feel the original MSX1 version is the best.

In that case, it seems that learning recovery is in fact very important, then.

Not really as the game will change based on your actions. Zanac is all about chilling. Sometimes I will just use the warps to repeat stages over and over to counterstop the game. Sometimes not. Sometimes I will focus on a single subweapon, other times I will pick up every single one. Sometimes I focus on ramming the boxes, other times I don't even shoot them.

The og MSX1 version doesn't have subweapon levels, just normal or wide (powered up) which I do feel works better.

[Lethe]

It's not a hard game to recover in anyway IMO. The enemies all behave predictably, and the weapons are competent, so it's just about accepting the limitations of what you have in the moment. Or spending some of your 50+ lives chain dying until you get a good weapon.

You can beat all the bosses at low power if you destroy the whirly ball launchers first. I'm tempted to say the stage 10 one is comparatively hard but it all blurs together, game's like a fever dream.

[Sengoku Strider]

This was one of the earliest home console games with rank (possibly the earliest?) so seeking to manage that will no doubt help. IIRC this is one of those games where rank is determined by things like how many shots you've fired, so easing up on the auto fire is one quick & easy adjustment.

[Shatterhand]

Zanac is all about just chilling. Sometimes you will go 30 mins and never die. Other times you will die 10 times in 30 seconds. Just relax and ride it out. For what it's worth I still feel the original MSX1 version is the best.

The original MSX 1 is the only one I can't finish consistently everytime I play it thanks to that silly Level 7 boss which you have to kill in 12 seconds or else the level restarts. After that you go to the last level (when the ground "opens". First time I saw that I was really surprised by it)

THAT thing is the most devious thing Jemini Hirono ever designed on any of his shmups. It's doable even if you die once on the battle and EVEN if you get there with weapon 0 but, holy cow, it is difficulty as hell.

I am nearly sure the "2nd version" was released just because of that boss, I've heard many people considering that boss impossible to beat.

It's also nice because it's the only game on the series that's not in "wide yoko" mode, but it has more of a "square" aspect to it, which was how home games of that time tried to look "vertical". Also it's the only one that shows the current state of "ALC" . Even the 2nd version removed that.

I wonder how many people actually believe the NES version was the original one.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

The original MSX 1 is the only one I can't finish consistently everytime I play it thanks to that silly Level 7 boss which you have to kill in 12 seconds or else the level restarts.

WTF, that sounds like some kusoge-tier design right there. Very glad they seem to have smartened up and haven't done that since!

[Sengoku Strider]

I wonder how many people actually believe the NES version was the original one.

Nearly everyone who knows it exists but never read its wikipedia entry or got deep into obscure emulation platforms, I'd have to imagine. The MSX was largely a Japan-only 1980s entry-level platform standard which had a brief moment in a few other scattered small markets. Console ports almost universally outclass the MSX versions, owing to its inability to pixel-scroll & limited sprite + colour count. Looking back there's not really much reason for anyone to know about it, other than as the answer to a bunch of Konami (and Compile) trivia questions.

EDIT: Talking about the original MSX. Once you get to MSX2+ you're looking at a top notch 8-bit platform.

[Mokebe]

I discovered a rather curiously effective way, but it still needs some work:

1. Get a Red Lander right away, you're guaranteed one at start. More if possible in the early (easy) levels.

2. Ram the middle of the first group of blocks for a guaranteed level 5 basic gun at start. There's like a 1/6.5 chance to get a lander whenever you destroy the scout ship (sart). The scout ship only appears until you've gotten yourself 10 power orbs (the things that improve the main guns) so you have to avoid picking those up... eh, convoluted.

3. Get 3x Weapon 2. Yeah, weapon 2! People seem to hate it because it kicks the AI into overdrive and sets the difficulty to maximum. I'm honestly surprised because Weapon 2 is sooooo good. Not against everything, but it pretty much is a free pass through most enemies.

4. Get Super guns (basic weapon max level) at stage 3. Now, getting Red Landers increases attack speed, even 1 makes a massive difference but more is better. Huge attack speed means that auto-firing the Super-guns pretty much obliterates everything up close. The guns have so much attack speed that they sort of protect the sides of the ship and a shield lasting for 140 hits is awesome. Combined together with Auto-fire, those things protect you from like 95% of things that can hurt you. It's imperative to stay at the bottom of the screen though, Weapon2 doesn't protect the bottom of the ship (but staying at the bottom does).

5. Weapon2 will spawn with high enough frequency to replenish your shield. Sometimes this spawns 10 "Valkyrie" enemies which is an RNGfest as they spawn randomly. If they come in contact with your shield, they drain it ridiculously fast. Avoiding them however means flying up, and that means a risk that you get sniped by a lonely bullet from below Sometimes though they don't spawn.

6. From there, only capital ships can really endanger you if you stay at the bottom of the screen and autofire the guns 24/7 with at least 2-3 Red Landers acquired (ofc the more the better). The level 6 one pisses me off because when he comes into contact with your shield, it's taken away from you instantly. And it so happens that the shield's hitbox is bigger than the visual effect, so it's REALLY easy to lose the shield there... I guess other capital ships that follow you make this even worse since you only have your main guns to hit them with. To avoid the big ship, you have to fly up to the top of the screen while still avoiding bullets from below AND from the sides, this can easily kill you

7. You really want to warp to level 9. Because level 8 is insane.

If only there was a risk-free strategy vs. capital ships and that damned level 7->9 warp wasn't so awkwardly placed...

[BareKnuckleRoo]

3. Get 3x Weapon 2. Yeah, weapon 2! People seem to hate it because it kicks the AI into overdrive and sets the difficulty to maximum. I'm honestly surprised because Weapon 2 is sooooo good. Not against everything, but it pretty much is a free pass through most enemies.

I've been reading up on the weapons, and it looks like Weapon 2 is a great pick if you can handle the waves it spawns. It seems to be like Aleste's charge shot weapon where you can give yourself a bullet cancelling shield in front of you that basically lasts forever.

Apparently Weapon 2 turns from a "absorb # hits" to a time-based powerup when maxed out, which seem like it'd jeopardize your ability to hang onto it, so maybe the trick is to use Weapon 2 but to deliberately keep it from maxing out in power.

Good luck on getting the clear!

[pegboy]

I did a no death run of this a while back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELNUi7QgbCU

My strategy was pretty simple:
1) max weapon 6 for a lander bomb -> get several red landers and maximum autofire rate early in the game
2) switch to weapon 7 and obliterate everything in sight. This weapon is so overpowered it makes the game almost laughably easy once you get the hang of how to use it.

If you can get pass the first few stages without dying you will have so many lives you should be able to recover

Recovery: If you do die on a fortress, just rush it and sacrifice a few lives to take out the "circle" generators as quickly as possible Since you have max autofire they will die almost instantly at point blank range. Then just keep trying to regain weapon 7 at max power, although I found that even at level 1 it was still quite powerful.

ALSO, do not underestimate the survival power of weapon 6. You can use it to coast through long sections of the game if you are decent at dodging.

Remember that you can ram the metroid things on stage 8 without dying, that makes it quite a bit more manageable.

PS. The Playstation version is better than the NES version. You can play on harder difficulties and turn off the enemy limit for screen filling insanity. Makes the game a lot more fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAJG-wNVaUI

[SuperDeadite]

Zanac is all about just chilling. Sometimes you will go 30 mins and never die. Other times you will die 10 times in 30 seconds. Just relax and ride it out. For what it's worth I still feel the original MSX1 version is the best.

The original MSX 1 is the only one I can't finish consistently everytime I play it thanks to that silly Level 7 boss which you have to kill in 12 seconds or else the level restarts. After that you go to the last level (when the ground "opens". First time I saw that I was really surprised by it)

THAT thing is the most devious thing Jemini Hirono ever designed on any of his shmups. It's doable even if you die once on the battle and EVEN if you get there with weapon 0 but, holy cow, it is difficulty as hell.

I am nearly sure the "2nd version" was released just because of that boss, I've heard many people considering that boss impossible to beat.

It's also nice because it's the only game on the series that's not in "wide yoko" mode, but it has more of a "square" aspect to it, which was how home games of that time tried to look "vertical". Also it's the only one that shows the current state of "ALC" . Even the 2nd version removed that.

I wonder how many people actually believe the NES version was the original one.

Eh, it's not too bad. Here's my old 1cc vid on real hardware. You'll notice I do fail the boss once though lol. By the way the "2nd Version" is in fact an unofficial hack of the Euro only tape version. This has been 100% proven.
https://youtu.be/NNcdZwWMPQI

Lately I've been trying to beat the TurboR enhancement patched version of EX, which removes all slowdown. It's insane lol.

[MSZ]

Max out your normal shots and weapon zero asap, by that point on both of your shots and weapon should be automatic, so you don't have to keep slamming your button and it also cancels bullets.

[ED-057]

While you're cruising along with maxed out weapons killing everything in sight you should be getting a lot of extends, so you have many chances at recovery after the inevitable death. When you respawn you have a period of invulnerability which you can use to either point-blank some annoying enemy or ram through any blue boxes that happen to be passing by for a good chance at getting the triple main gun. Grabbing power ups would also give you invulnerability IIRC

When I was a wee lad I favored the sub weapon that orbits your ship (number 3?). When I got older I would also use 0,1,5,7. I think 4 and 6 must not have been very good since I can't remember what they were, and I never liked the shield (number 2).

[BrianC]

While you're cruising along with maxed out weapons killing everything in sight you should be getting a lot of extends, so you have many chances at recovery after the inevitable death. When you respawn you have a period of invulnerability which you can use to either point-blank some annoying enemy or ram through any blue boxes that happen to be passing by for a good chance at getting the triple main gun. Grabbing power ups would also give you invulnerability IIRC

When I was a wee lad I favored the sub weapon that orbits your ship (number 3?). When I got older I would also use 0,1,5,7. I think 4 and 6 must not have been very good since I can't remember what they were, and I never liked the shield (number 2).

4 is that odd weapon that likes to get stuck at the top of the screen and 6 is the screen clearing bomb.

[ED-057]

4 is that odd weapon that likes to get stuck at the top of the screen

Oh that's right, it would oscillate left and right over the same spot wouldn't it? Not bad unless you accidentally fire it behind a boss and leave yourself wide open