Layer Section / Galactic Attack S-Tribute for Switch/PS4/XB1

[BrianC]

No, the hardware is very different. You are probably thinking of the Colecovision, which has very similar hardware. It doesn't run SG-1000 games, but there have been unofficial ports of some games to CV and there's an unofficial clone that plays both CV and SG-1000 games.

Sort of; I knew the Coleco & Intelli were competitors of a similar level, for some reason my brain just decided that must have meant it was Z80 based as well given how ubiquitous various iterations of that chip were.

It does have similar sound hardware, but it's actually closer to the sound chip used with the MSX (CV uses SN76489 and Intellivision uses AY-3-8914, a variant of the AY-3-8910 used in the MSX). The Antarctic Adventure homebrew has very close sound to the MSX version.

[Kiken]

Went back to the Demo on Switch…it seems you can only rotate Tate anti clock wise or am I missing something? If that’s the case it sucks since my led monitor only rotates clockwise…

I meant to post about this earlier... since it's using the Saturn ROM for the tate option, there's only CCW rotation supported (that was all you had in the original game). Unless they introduce a screen flip option in the hypervisor menus (several options are greyed out in this demo) then this conversion is stuck with strictly 90 degree left rotation.

[DenimDemon]

Went back to the Demo on Switch…it seems you can only rotate Tate anti clock wise or am I missing something? If that’s the case it sucks since my led monitor only rotates clockwise…

I meant to post about this earlier... since it's using the Saturn ROM for the tate option, there's only CCW rotation supported (that was all you had in the original game). Unless they introduce a screen flip option in the hypervisor menus (several options are greyed out in this demo) then this conversion is stuck with strictly 90 degree left rotation.

Well that sucks. Hope they add a flip option…
This would be the only HD vert that wouldn’t work on my screen.

[dmk1198]

I got the demo cheers lads , any other demos worth getting from jap store? Thnx in advance

Sent from my M2007J20CG using Tapatalk

[Rastan78]

Mark MSX tested the PS4 version at 6 frames of lag in game. Apparently the Japanese player who posted those numbers was using the menu to test lag.

Makes me wonder if the Switch version is even worse in game as well.

[Astro City II]

https://twitter.com/Xbox_JP/status/1517065613650317312

Looks like this is available next week. April 28th

[Jonpachi]

Mark MSX tested the PS4 version at 6 frames of lag in game. Apparently the Japanese player who posted those numbers was using the menu to test lag.

Makes me wonder if the Switch version is even worse in game as well.

6 is at least on the edge of playable. Sadly, better than the Cotton/Guardian Force set.

[FunktionJCB]

The PC version is out now on Steam:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1805 ... _STribute/

[Samildanach]

Now also on PSN - UK site in my case, which is often later than other regions. They have also released a demo of stage 1, probably a wise move after the Cotton 2/Guardian Force lag debacle.

[DenimDemon]

Can you Tate anti clock wise on the retail release ?

[EmperorIng]

The PC version is out now on Steam:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1805 ... _STribute/

And seems to be a flaming piece of shit. I watched ggmaximo's stream last night, and the game from his words felt extremely sluggish, and there were audio glitches out the ass, with the beeping laser sound effect repeating incessantly, voice samples being garbled and repeated, explosions/music cutting in and out.

Unfortunately another lazy hack job it appears. Even if sound was better on console you'd still contend with all the extra delay/lag in the controls from running an arcade game, through an emulator, through unity.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I'm on the Shmup.com Discord for the francophone shmuppers and the consensus there seems to be the same from others who've tried it. Bad cash grab port of a great game. Very unfortunate.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I called it.

Let Shitty Connection die by not buying their products, please. At least, the S Tributes thing. EAR is already theirs and only theirs because they found some success somehow - you know what to expect.

-Why is Discord more popular than this, I still wonder. I can't be the French language.-

[DenimDemon]

Sad to hear about this. Guess I’m holding off for now…Well still got my Saturn copy so I’m cool but still, this is a huge missed opportunity. These games deserve more respect.

[BrianC]

I'll just stick to the actual Saturn version, MAME, and that mobile port. Curious to see the reviews when Puzzle Bobble 2X gets released, which has audio issues on real hardware (poor stereo mix with music too quiet).

edit: Maybe not MAME. Was that issue with the invisible laser ever fixed?

[EmperorIng]

That issue has been fixed since at least Mame 216
The F3 sound chip had a slight regression (slightly lower quality than older versions, you can hear a slight crackling in the music), but it's not all that bad.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

edit: Maybe not MAME. Was that issue with the invisible laser ever fixed?

MAME had a couple minor issues, I know at least the laser thing was fixed later on:

• The stage 3 midboss's dual laserbeam attack didn't spawn correctly, causing it to be slightly easier than intended.

• The music would also glitch out on the next credit you play after you gameover on your first credit (Stage 1's music was garbled and inaccurate on your second credit), meaning you had to reboot the game after each credit.

[DenimDemon]

Well I ended up getting it on Switch. For some reason the game is way cheaper on the Japanese Eshop, had a few coins from my imports so the final price was around 10 dollars.
Haven’t played my Saturn copy in a while but my first death was on stage 4 boss. This is one of those games that comes back at you even when you haven’t played for a while…music, patterns etc. It really gotta be one of the best ever.
Anyway from the little time I’ve spent with the switch port…I think it plays fine. Really. Was expecting way worse. Didn’t noticed any glitch or performance issues. Yeah there’s a bit of input delay but to me personally nothing game breaking. I’ve always found the control in the original a bit floaty anyway.
To me what the game needs is a flip Tate option since you still can’t rotate ACW and a pure no background/UI option. If there’s one I didn’t find it.
Can’t speak for the other versions, Steam included but as it stands its major drawback so far is price on western store fronts.

[Martinov]

I tried the PS4 demo, and I have to say I too was expecting the input delay to be far worse. It's been several years since I owned a copy, but I'd say there's *slightly* less input delay than Rayforce on PS2 Taito Memories II Jōkan, which I sold for being too unresponsive. It's not perfect, but it seems to be within a reasonable range now. I'll likely wait for either a sale or a SLG physical copy, and look forward to the Elevator Action Returns S-Tribute port.

[Sima Tuna]

Mark MSX tested the PS4 version at 6 frames of lag in game. Apparently the Japanese player who posted those numbers was using the menu to test lag.

Makes me wonder if the Switch version is even worse in game as well.

Switch usually, but not always, adds an additional frame of switch lag vs all other consoles. This is quite consistent based on what I've seen people like Mark measuring. It's very rare for a game with both Switch and PS4 releases, or Switch and Xbox 360 releases, not to have an additional frame of input delay. I've only seen it for the Live Wire titles, which have somehow managed to preserve the original xbox 360/PC input delay for games like Mushihimesama.

So my best guess is that, if the ps4 version measured at 6 frames of lag, the Switch version would measure 7. 7 is obviously better than 10+ frames of lag from Guardian Force and Cotton 2, but it's still firmly in the "Shitty Connection, why the fuck are you guys still using this garbage emulator" camp for me.

The least they could do, if they're going to be stuck with this laggy emulation, is to port rpgs and strategy games or something. That sega classics collection is laggy as fuck on Switch. So much so that even I can feel it. But you can play phantasy star 2 and 4 on there, along with Shining Force 2. So there are some titles where the lag matters less.

Like many of you, I'm baffled at the decision to port the Saturn version of Rayforce instead of the arcade. It also feels like deceptive marketing to include two titles on the storefront, pretending as if you're getting two games (or two versions with meaningful differences,) when they're only selling you a single game. It seems predatory to me. Nostalgia whales will see that shit and they may be suckered into believing this is a shmup collection (like Psikyo or Cotton) rather than one game. The lag would certainly be more excusable (imo) if Shitty Connection *were* selling you an entire collection of Ray games. Taito Legends 2 had Rayforce and Raystorm iirc. It also had elevator action returns and a bunch of other cool shit. All on a single disc.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Didn't realise this was out in Europe too now, gave the demo a spin on Switch and it seems fine - obviously it's only the first stage and things get much busier later on, but it didn't feel laggy or floaty. Indeed staring at the ship sprite trying to see if the movement was noticably delayed made it feel floatier than it is, because of how the animation works - a tap barely animates the ship at all, but the animation comes in after the ship starts moving. If you flail around the screen watching the ship, it's very disorientating!!

I'm not sure what's wrong with the arcade version though. Is it that City Connection have a bunch of licences specifically for Saturn versions or something? I can't imagine this will get any casual observers at £25, when Arcade Archives drop in under £7. So the price is enthusiasts only while the version... isn't. It's not like the Saturn port has any extras and the yoko orientation, while not as bad as Saturn Batsugun's "kill shit before you can see it", squashes the screen a little and strips some effects away. It's far from unplayable but it's not exactly got anything to make up for the Saturn port's differences.

I'd probably buy a budget physical version, if only because my Saturn died

[pja]

I mean, it's probably as simple as the fact that they have developed/licensed a Saturn emulator but not a Taito F3 emulator (unless they published some other Taito F3 game I'm not aware of)?

[To Far Away Times]

Mark MSX tested the PS4 version at 6 frames of lag in game. Apparently the Japanese player who posted those numbers was using the menu to test lag.

Makes me wonder if the Switch version is even worse in game as well.

Switch usually, but not always, adds an additional frame of switch lag vs all other consoles. This is quite consistent based on what I've seen people like Mark measuring. It's very rare for a game with both Switch and PS4 releases, or Switch and Xbox 360 releases, not to have an additional frame of input delay. I've only seen it for the Live Wire titles, which have somehow managed to preserve the original xbox 360/PC input delay for games like Mushihimesama.

So my best guess is that, if the ps4 version measured at 6 frames of lag, the Switch version would measure 7. 7 is obviously better than 10+ frames of lag from Guardian Force and Cotton 2, but it's still firmly in the "Shitty Connection, why the fuck are you guys still using this garbage emulator" camp for me.

The least they could do, if they're going to be stuck with this laggy emulation, is to port rpgs and strategy games or something. That sega classics collection is laggy as fuck on Switch. So much so that even I can feel it. But you can play phantasy star 2 and 4 on there, along with Shining Force 2. So there are some titles where the lag matters less.

Like many of you, I'm baffled at the decision to port the Saturn version of Rayforce instead of the arcade. It also feels like deceptive marketing to include two titles on the storefront, pretending as if you're getting two games (or two versions with meaningful differences,) when they're only selling you a single game. It seems predatory to me. Nostalgia whales will see that shit and they may be suckered into believing this is a shmup collection (like Psikyo or Cotton) rather than one game. The lag would certainly be more excusable (imo) if Shitty Connection *were* selling you an entire collection of Ray games. Taito Legends 2 had Rayforce and Raystorm iirc. It also had elevator action returns and a bunch of other cool shit. All on a single disc.

Man, Taito Legends 2 was such a good package, even if the emulation was a little iffy at times. I think it even came out a budget price too. I remember it being at Target for $20. We were spoiled back then.

[m.sniffles.esq]

In the "that's a fucking coincidence" dept:

I had the day off, so I spent the afternoon listening to a baseball game while screwing around and installing retroarch on the Xbox I just bought.

And literally the game I tried out the Saturn emulator with was...

(I must of subliminally knew this came out)

[jehu]

Well the S-Tribute presents another opportunity for the well-travelled “is it cheating?” autofire debate ala Darius Gaiden. If I understand correctly, the original port locks autofire at 15hz, while this new release offers a “Super Rapid” setting that kicks things up to 30hz. As you might imagine, it makes many sections quite a bit easier - nearly trivial.

Is worrying about the validity of this brave new setting another troglodyte moral panic? Or, given the original’s 15hz lock, should a 30hz clear really be understood as a second-rate, “okay, but not really” clear?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

30 hz autofire with this game has been known about forever and was in the original arcade PCB releases. It actually doesn't increase the damage all that much; Rayforce is well designed in that its default autofire rate gets very respectable kill times. If you want the extra 30 hz, go for it, just make a note on any score submissions. You can always experiment and compare both to see for yourself how it feels.

If you go into the PCB settings and disable the autofire (which is on by default) you can use external autofire to crank it up to 30 hz. That's all it is. It's a slight advantage but it's actually not game-breaking by any means compared to Darius Gaiden where 30 hz is WAY stronger than the default speed. Hell, just tapping shot at a decent pace is considerably stronger than holding shot in Darius Gaiden.

Resume your enjoyment, no moral panic needed.

[jehu]

haha well damn, and here I thought I really had something - thanks for the clarification Roo.

I’ve never put any time in these games, but I peeked at a few replays online and 15hz seemed like the gold standard. I was looping stage 3 to get a no-miss, and the 30hz made the first miniboss and the end boss almost trivially easy. Think I’ll stick to 15hz to be on equal footing with everyone else’s runs - but nice to know it was possible on the PCB, and that this isn’t some mutant element just introduced in the S-Tribute.

Piqued my curiosity though, was there any way to achieve 30hz on the OG Saturn release?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Sorry to burst your bubble. ;w;

Piqued my curiosity though, was there any way to achieve 30hz on the OG Saturn release?

To do so, there'd have to be an option to disable autofire, and then you'd have to have a Saturn controller with a 30 hz autofire function built-in. I don't know anything about the Saturn version, sorry.

[Steven]

I don't know much about autofire in this game other than that it's on by default, but I do know that there is apparently an invincibility bug that you can get at the very start of stage 1 on the Steam version. Not sure of the details, but I guess you rewind the game, intentionally game over, start a new game, die intentionally, and then you're completely invincible or something like that. Yay, Shitty Connection~

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Hah, I remember seeing a video of that: https://twitter.com/STGY_tw/status/1520119594744094725