Prelude to the Apocalypse

[BulletMagnet]

Absolutely vile. Censure and expel.

The only people less likely than the GOP leadership to visit any consequences whatsoever upon her for such actions are the voters who elected her.

[orange808]

Absolutely vile. Censure and expel.

The only people less likely than the GOP leadership to visit any consequences whatsoever upon her for such actions are the voters who elected her.

Quite possibly, the true libertarian capital of the United States. An amazing achievement, given the existence of Idaho, Montana, and Alaska.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Who does think seriously Taiwan won't be next, or that Putin the dude will stop willingly where he's at? These are rhetorical questions, which I feel deserve to be asked nonetheless. I'm just not seeing a more adequate topic than this one to bump with it right now. Haven't been visiting forum for quite the time, thus I apologise in case topic is not about such things these days (I wouldn't know).

[BulletMagnet]

So Hard-Hitting Serious Journalist Sean Hannity invited on Perfumed Weasel Lindsey Graham, and asked why Mitch McConnell isn't advancing a bill which would completely ban Russian oil and gas imports in the US: Graham's response was that 1) The Biden administration, which opposes the ban, is completely controlled by radicals, and 2) McConnell is completely beholden to the Biden administration.

If Hannity had even a minimal sense of journalistic integrity he would have asked Graham three (and a half) incredibly simple questions:

1) If the radical left really is pulling the administration's strings, wouldn't they be absolutely chomping at the bit at a chance to strike a blow against both fossil fuel dependency and the advance of authoritarianism (completely and totally unrelated side note: more than half of Republicans say they believe Russia is still a communist country; include "socialist" in the mix and the figure is closer to three quarters)?

2) Since when does Mitch Fucking McConnell give a single rat's ass about what anyone thinks about what he does, especially on the opposite side of the aisle? Does Graham seriously even hear himself when he speaks?

3) Did it ever occur to Graham that a significant reason that Biden doesn't back the ban in the first place might be that fact that conservatives have gone completely scorched-earth on him when it comes to inflation, and placed 100 percent of the blame for it directly on his administration's actions, declaring that the current state of gas prices in particular goes so far as to render him unfit for office?

Is there a single Republican leader, Graham included, who is in favor of the blanket ban, who is also willing to state, on the record, that while a complete ban on Russian fuel imports would cause pain at home, the sacrifice is worth making, and that they are willing to not dogpile on Biden for the resulting fuel price increase if he takes that step? Is anyone trumpeting the vital importance of drastic action on the Ukraine issue willing to do so much as slightly change their tune for awhile in order to genuinely call Biden out and increase the odds of such action actually happening?

I'll repeat myself again, for those in the back:

- Conservatives take zero responsibility for pushing back against the advance of authoritarianism; that's completely the left's problem, the right can continue to openly advance authoritarian rhetoric to troll for extremist votes and advance its agenda even when it flies in the face of public opinion.

- The right would rather let people die and be forcibly conquered than even temporarily de-emphasize their pet issues, even as it whines incessantly that, somehow, the left is the real problem in this area.

- The rank-and-file conservative electorate, very much including its self-styled "moderates", will never demand anything different from either its elected officials or its media; both are doing precisely what they were put there to do.

[Sengoku Strider]

Absolutely vile. Censure and expel.

The fact that you're saying this is the exact reason it won't happen.

You ever watch hockey? A team's first & second lines are their most skilled players. Eventually they get tired and you need to play 3rd & 4th lines of whoever's left. Since these players are probably not that great anyway, teams will traditionally carry a 'goon' to put out. Goons usually aren't great at hockey, but they're really good at trolling the other team, playing dirty and goading the opponents into fights, committing penalties or making dumb mistakes.



Boebert & Tayler-Greene got elected because they rode a wave of idiot QAnon voters, but the Republicans made the most of them by using them as political goons to rile up the other side. That's what they were doing with this stunt, trying to distract Biden into committing a "Dementia Joe" moment during the State of the Union Address ("Of all things, gasp!"). The thing with goons is, unless they're really dirty, they're always some of the home team fans' favourite players. They make things interesting. They push around the guys you're rooting against on the other side. They have a certain blue collar appeal, because they stand out despite not being overly fancy or skilled.

So when people like you get pissed, this is what their marks (let's call them what they are, this is just pro wrestling) see:



SEXY BOEBERT DEFEATS LEFTIST TROOP SLAYERS

Which is exactly why everybody knows who Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Tayler-Greene are, and nobody knows who Republican house representative Jay Olbernolte is. Even though he's the founder of FarSight Studios and director of Action 52 for Sega Genesis, which makes him vastly more qualified to speak to the American soul.



Pictured: The Triumph of Liberal Democracy

Who does think seriously Taiwan won't be next, or that Putin the dude will stop willingly where he's at? These are rhetorical questions, which I feel deserve to be asked nonetheless. I'm just not seeing a more adequate topic than this one to bump with it right now. Haven't been visiting forum for quite the time, thus I apologise in case topic is not about such things these days (I wouldn't know).

I mean, you're talking about pretty apocalyptic scenarios, this seems like the right place.

You're also asking two very different questions. Putin won't stop where he's at if not forced to, every government in Europe knows his long term aim is to restore the territory the Russian Empire lost at the beginning of the 20th century. I guess once you've got $200 billion, 700 cars, 58 planes & helicopters and a literal golden toilet, all that's left is going for the platinum trophy on your Autocrats of History profile.

Taiwan, on the other hand, is absolutely not next. China's dirty military secret is that their force projection capabilities aren't up to what it would take to fight the type of campaign conquering Taiwan would require. There are also alliances in place that would all but trigger WW3 if they tried, because China taking Taiwan would grant them control of the global shipping lanes which feed the Japanese and South Korean economies. This was essentially the issue that drew Japan into WW2. China would effectively control East Asia, which is a locus of a massive amount of capital reserves and military firepower. The global balance would shift on an East-West axis very quickly.

Which is why China tried testing Biden as soon as he took office, to see how much they could get away with against him. A move which ultimately backfired; Biden's been in the game longer than Xi has and knew to immediately reaffirm commitments to defend Taiwan, but more importantly drew Japan into taking a firm stance in that direction as well, something they'd been avoiding for decades due to concern over political and economic fallout with China. Xi will keep poking with his army stick to make others mad and maintain the "Us vs. Everybody" narrative dictators thrive off of at home, but actual fighting is something that's probably not in the cards any time soon.

[Ed Oscuro]

OK, maybe I shouldn't say Boebert should be censured and expelled so it will happen, then.

Russia now sending railcars full of every truck and SUV they can get their hands on to the front. It's pretty much over before it started (although, at the same time, it's definitely not over).

[orange808]

Of all the countries on planet Earth, which country is the number one producer of oil? Who pumps the most? The United States of America. Google it. I'll wait. Oh, you're back? I was right, huh?

#1.

America relies on Russia for approximately 2% of their oil. It's almost nothing! A US unilateral ban on Russian oil is a fairly easy policy change. No problem.

Sanctions and a unilateral American ban are two entirely different things. Why? Because, sanctions would affect Europe. Europe (unlike America) does rely on Russian oil. Sanctions would cut oil to Europe and there's no way to replace it. Saudi Arabia and Russia are essentially tied for the #2 slot among oil producers. Europe needs that oil.

So, if you sanction that oil, we can't replace it and it will send Europe scrambling. Are you thick, libertarian American numbskull? Of course you are! You say: "I got mine!" (Of course you do, you thick fuck! That's your mantra.) But, do you? Do you "have" yours? Hello, capitalism! Europe still needs oil. They will be willing to pay a premium plus shipping. Oops. Will the oil companies pass up cold hard cash to keep the oil at home, because of the red, white, and blue? Nope. They want greenbacks. Oil prices will spike everywhere. You think you got yours and f*ck Europe, but you're wrong, dipshit libertarian. It's a global market and money is king. So, we have to tread carefully.

It's got nothing to do with who is a fucking patriot. Also, your clothes, shoes, video game machine, and countless other things are made out of (drum roll): oil !! Plastic and polyester are oil, you thick rubes. That's why we can't just casually turn of the spigot. It's not just for your automobile.

[Ed Oscuro]

orange808, have you heard of something called...an oil tanker? There is a global energy market. If Russia faces export bans and tariffs, it will likely sell at a slight discount to nations that have not signed on, and their demand for energy from other sources (like the US) will be lowered in turn. Some of the Russian oil may eventually make its way to Germany via intermediaries anyway. The reason for the oil pipelines was simply to lower costs. And the reason we have those oil pipelines is in part the longstanding nuclear power plant phobia of European governments (especially Germany).

Depending on which sources you use, Russia produces from 8% to 12% of the world's oil. So, put less gas in the tank of your car, embrace elastic demand...things will become a bit more expensive but it's not the end of the world.

Also, a Russian soldier speaks: https://twitter.com/hackingbutlegal/sta ... 2966062082

[orange808]

Haven't the locals here posted some pie in the sky "honour system" ideas for no poilce? *snicker* Some definitely insisted we were living in a post-military world. Everyone is nice, now? *snicker* Oops. Do you get it, now?

The pie in the sky shit has to stop. You're bonkers.

You're suggesting implementing sanctions and immediately allowing people to break them? That's ridiculous. I've also heard of a satellite and a camera. Everyone knows where the boats go. Also, any sanctions you implement are meant to work; it's not a PR campaign. Russia can't just open a food truck in international waters.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Putin won't stop where he's at if not forced to, every government in Europe knows his long term aim is to restore the territory the Russian Empire lost at the beginning of the 20th century.

The question then is what's stopping Putin? Do we just allow him to conquer Ukraine and advance until he's bordered by nothing but NATO countries? Is Ukraine an acceptable sacrifice to avoid the immediate threat of nuclear war? Do we hope that Russia has a revolt and overthrows him? Unlikely given the given how tightly their populace's state media controls the average citizen, they're all convinced it's somehow the USA's fault and unaware Putin literally has started a war that's currently targetting civilian targets.

I genuinely don't know what the best answer here is. It seems that as long as there's hope that Putin may fall without direct military action or a global war breaking out, that we're going to keep taking a long distance wait-and-see approach. And as much as I love not having to worry about death by fallout irradiation, I hate that Ukraine's basically forced to be the blood sacrifice to enable that.

Taiwan, on the other hand, is absolutely not next.

I sincerely hope you are right. Personally, I am cautiously optimistic, but it wouldn't surprise me if something were to happen in the next decade or two. It seems unlikely they'd act while Putin's army is engaged, because if a war broke out over Taiwan they'd presumably like their Russian allies available to help.

[BulletMagnet]

Putin and other such despots who persecute their LGBTQ citizens (with open approval from religious leaders) have long been lionized as the last line of defense against The Gay Agenda; the latest variation on the theme is that most everyone else is actually opposing them on Ukraine in order to render further obeisance to the all-powerful queers.

In case anyone needed an Exhibit A...

[Ed Oscuro]

I hope China looks at the debacle in Ukraine and thinks "we can keep up appearances up and do good trade without needing to invade." China has made strong signals that they aren't inclined to leave Taiwan independent, but they appear happy enough to play the long game of pressuring dissenters and using soft power approaches. Putin has tried influencing public opinion but his operation is significantly different and appears to have ultimately failed. It hasn't overcome citizen journalism and counter-propaganda from anti-Putin sources, and it also hasn't made up for deficiencies in Russia's military on the ground. So ultimately it has been a very costly influence-buying game which many people around the world were happy to deal with so long as the pay is good - but no longer.

But ultimately, unaccountable states like Russia and China are based on *lies and crimes* and they cannot be counted on to act rationally at all times. Their internal power politics make reasoned analysis difficult. Looking at the average Chinese netzien reaction to Putin's attack on Russia, from last week, China's leadership may be victim of its own success in curating what its people see, as they appear to think Putin is a great strategist and the invasion a master stroke. That may change as things drag on, but the average Chinese person seems to not really understand what's going on here, and if it looks to the Chinese leadership like they have a strong popular mandate that may cause them to be more belligerent than the facts demand.

I have been seeing arguments that "the US and West don't care about Ukraine because they can bring an end to the war by pressuring Ukraine to become neutral," and they remind me of the arguments we used to see here about Syria.

The Syrian crimes are a good counterfactual against appeasing Russia in Ukraine. Russia had no good arguments, but there they too made a big deal of "counter-terrorism" to validate their actions. Same as Putin's use of the 1999 apartment bombings to validate his war in Chechnya and his personal power. They largely got away with it, but Syria especially showed Putin isn't interested in peaceful approaches, so the argument that we are "trading away Ukrainian lives for no good to the Ukrainian people" is wrong-headed. He won't stop anywhere unless he's stopped, like Hitler. And even if one was willing to ignore Russia's own neo-Nazi problem, Russia is one of the last countries we should count on to successfully de-nazify any place. Putin's model for Ukraine would probably be like Chechnya, Syria, and pretty much every other country he's been involved with - establish close ties with a personal warlord and approve any action they take to pacify the population so long as it preserves Putin's dream of autarky.

[BulletMagnet]

A quick reminder to the world that this is the Ukraine narrative being presented to half of the U.S. electorate, and you can be absolutely sure that even those among them who absolutely know better will act like they don't, and vote accordingly.

[Ed Oscuro]

The only silver lining of the war is that it's so bad that it puts a lot of those lies, misconceptions, and propaganda in a proper context. Days ago Ukrainian people reported that their own families in Russia were acidic or downright unbelieving when they reported the attacks by Russia. As time goes on, though, those people might start to change their beliefs a little. But the main thing seems to be that younger people know enough. I hope for the safety of all Russian people and I'm thinking of a member of this Forum who is from there. You have to wonder - is he in jail, keeping his head down, what? Absolutely insane situation to be stuck in.

[BulletMagnet]

I will never, ever get tired of reminders of what a ridiculous group of utterly insufferable pussies these people are.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

The Trump family desperately wants to remain relevant despite being anything but. Same as usual, really.

It annoys me to think how close we are yet again to another near miss as far as Russia launching nukes. If Putin really has fully lost his marbles as some suspect, and orders a nuclear strike (despite it being obvious that whoever resorts to a nuke nowadays would be regarded as an irredeemable enemy), the only thing to stop him would be a Russian military worker ignoring/refusing to heed the order. And that's assuming their automatic system doesn't fire them off first by accident or something.

How the heck is Zelenskyy's last name spelled? His official Twitter ends it with two Y's, but everywhere else is inconsistent, often spelling it Zelenskiy, or simply Zelensky. Are these just spelling mistakes?

[BryanM]

Wikipedia and the man himself says it's double y, they might know what they're talkin' aboot.

The Trumps are unfortunately kind of relevant. They're a new political dynasty, akin to the Bushes, Clintons, Kennedys, etc. You should already be openly weeping for the inevitable future election between Harris and Ivanka after the inevitable Donald v. Hillary rematch. The apocalypse doesn't care about what we wish were and weren't true : /

[Sengoku Strider]

The question then is what's stopping Putin?

A lot of stuff: a mountain of sanctions, several satellite countries and their militaries (wars are expensive, and the bloody Chechnya conflict showed the Russians that conventional armies aren't the ones you need to worry about in that region), the threat of becoming too diplomatically and economically radioactive for even allies like Iran & China, economic and social deprivation of the citizenry becoming a fuse for the mounting unrest at home, foreign-backed Ukrainian resistance making it too bloody to be worth continuing on even if they win, etc.

But most of all, his courtiers all having their foreign wealth confiscated and their Russian assets devalued. Historically speaking, fucking with 2nd & 3rd tier aristocrat money is like the #1 source of getting locked in a closet by your generals at sword point until you agree to publicly abdicate.

Do we just allow him to conquer Ukraine and advance until he's bordered by nothing but NATO countries? Is Ukraine an acceptable sacrifice to avoid the immediate threat of nuclear war?

Yes. People don't quite understand how fucked all-out atomic war would be, there is literally nothing to be won in one. Every major city in Europe, Asia and North America have several megatons targeted at them at all times, and ICBMs move fast. The Cold War never ended, we just all agreed to stop talking about it.

Do we hope that Russia has a revolt and overthrows him? Unlikely given the given how tightly their populace's state media controls the average citizen, they're all convinced it's somehow the USA's fault and unaware Putin literally has started a war that's currently targetting civilian targets.

Russians are a far more cynical and aware people than that. It's just the Russian equivalent of MAGA types who are willing to pretend he's saving Ukrainians from invisible nazis. But it's kind of hard to hide having your economy turned off and your access to the outside world blocked off.

I genuinely don't know what the best answer here is. It seems that as long as there's hope that Putin may fall without direct military action or a global war breaking out, that we're going to keep taking a long distance wait-and-see approach. And as much as I love not having to worry about death by fallout irradiation, I hate that Ukraine's basically forced to be the blood sacrifice to enable that.

The thing is that fighting Russia means also fighting member nations of the CSTO, who will immediately be drawn in by signed pacts. You're potentially starting something bigger than just a defensive action against Russian tanks.

For all that Western governments have gotten our media behind the Ukrainians, remember that all these leaders were elected to serve their own country's interests, not anyone else's. It's one thing to pretend you're getting the Justice League together to knock an inconvenient third world dictator out of the box. Getting into bloody, expensive and extremely dangerous wars with serious heavyweights is something you only do as a last resort, not because you're worried they might seize Kyrgyzstan next.

I sincerely hope you are right. Personally, I am cautiously optimistic, but it wouldn't surprise me if something were to happen in the next decade or two. It seems unlikely they'd act while Putin's army is engaged, because if a war broke out over Taiwan they'd presumably like their Russian allies available to help.

The news needs clicks, so they love to play up the danger. But China and Taiwan have been in a state of conflict with each claiming to be the rightful government of the other's country literally since 1949. This sabre rattling isn't anything new, and if anything taking Taiwan is a more perilous venture now than at any time since the 1950s.

The dumbest thing Xi did with his high school bully "I'm not touching you" routine across Oceania last year was getting Japan to start making public statements about defence of Taiwan. The thing people don't realize about Japan is that they're still one of the most powerful military forces on Earth, hiding behind a polite anime girl exterior. This is the current Global Firepower Index:



Attacking Taiwan means getting into a fight with the US, Japan and South Korea, at the very least. South Korea has universal conscription, lots of money for US weapon contracts, and has been in a state of war readiness since 1950; the Korean War never ended, it was just set on slow-cook by the 1954 armistice agreement. It would almost certainly drag in Australia, New Zealand and the Philippines as well at this point, as China's been poking at all of those countries as well, and Japan has a LOT of friends and global good will these days.

EDIT: Grammar
DOUBLE EDIT: I somehow didn't even mention that global nuclear power India, the #4 squad on that list, is in a state of being generally pissed at China over decades-long squabbles over Himalayan territory that recently broke out into literal medieval warfare. Also, they've been dealing with the Naxalite-Maoist insurgency which has controlled varying amounts of Indian territory around West Bengal since the 1970s. Those are always awkward:

Spoiler

[BIL]

^ good post. (unlike this one ;3)

[Ed Oscuro]

A couple considerations along with the ICBM and tactical nukes talk:
Russia seems quite likely to start using chemical weapons in Ukraine soon. On top of that, reportedly they're using nuclear power plants and Chernobyl as staging grounds for artillery and MRLS. At the same time, Putin knows the West has been flooding Ukraine with arms and aid, which was supposedly his red line. I guess perhaps the most "sane" outlook for Putin is that he's going to try and take whatever bits of Ukraine he can get and call it a day when he can't continue any longer.

The problem is that many of these war scenarios end up escalating into a strategic nuclear exchange in the war games. So, either accidentally or intentionally, we're very close to that exchange, but I think clearly more so if we cross our own publicly stated red lines of a no-fly zone or a ground troop deployment.

So perhaps the answer here is that, like it or not, Putin is going to end up with a long insurgency, and lots of civilians on the Eastern side of the country will get killed. It seems best not to tempt fate with the nuclear exchange; on the other hand, we're always playing catch-up with Putin. The only thing that I see mitigating this is ironically more NATO expansion because he's not likely to test Article 5.

[guigui]

Gaming and talking about Ukraine, maybe a good place to share this one bundle :
https://itch.io/b/1316/bundle-for-ukraine
999 games with minimum donation 10, going for Ukraine support. Games are pretty decent (Celeste, Baba is You, many more)

[P_HAT]

Sup people, i see you following the world situation, kek.


Atm i'm, as a Ukrainian citizen, trying to get the fuck out of Russia (this is complex af if you are in Crimea), not sure what i will do next, but i hope to get refuge status and work in Germany\Sweden\Finland or Denmark

My relatives are under bombs, but people at my work support this war. My brain is melting, thanks for reading my panic text.

I hope we will survive.

[BIL]

I hope so too bud, I wish you were posting here again under safer circumstances. Was revisiting this eternal classic last month and wondering how you were!

[P_HAT]

Oh jesus crust, those cursed HUCAST games. I still feel the burn

[BIL]

A legendary event indeed

[BulletMagnet]

I hope you and your family are able to find safety, and that your country can regain peace and start to rebuild.

Out of curiosity, when you say this...

My relatives are under bombs, but people at my work support this war.

...from what you've experienced, do you think they believe (or say they believe) Putin's story for why he invaded (Russian-speaking people being killed, Nazis in charge), or do they buy into the "it's rightfully Russian territory" or "we need to strike back at the West's incursion" narratives, or are they just afraid that they will suffer retaliation if they don't support the war, or something else? I can't help but wonder what the main motivator is for those in the Putin camp, at least from what you've seen.

[P_HAT]

My relatives are under bombs, but people at my work support this war.

...from what you've experienced, do you think they believe (or say they believe) Putin's story for why he invaded (Russian-speaking people being killed, Nazis in charge), or do they buy into the "it's rightfully Russian territory" or "we need to strike back at the West's incursion" narratives, or are they just afraid that they will suffer retaliation if they don't support the war, or something else? I can't help but wonder what the main motivator is for those in the Putin camp, at least from what you've seen.

Well, it depends on people. There is older folks, who ONLY consume state media, since USSR. So they simply believe in all the bullshit, because they were told to do it [believe the state] since the childhood and lack any critical thinking or understanding of the world outside their bobble. The simply never questioned anything, in their life, and they go by this way.

I'm not sure there is alot of people who think "it's rightfully Russian territory". It is mostly side-addon to other ideas.

"we need to strike back at the West's incursion" is one of big ideas, yes. Mostly it is liked by people who never was in any western country, nor they speak any other language. They ofc racist, everything-phobic and only consume state media.

There is people who are afraid, but people who just too afraid (imagine you have little kid, and if you protest you for sure can be fired, fined, put in jail) and have rights so. But there is peope who afraid and keep it silent or dislike it. And people who afraid but decided to support it, like hyenas.

There is alot of other... reasons, i guess. Many people just lost their humanity. They live in really odd mentality i can't even describe it.

Another thing, the doublespeak and doublethink are FUCKING REAL MATE, i shit you not, all what Orwell said is true, you won't believe the level of bullshit you can see in state media.

P.S. Please understand, that USSR for 70 years was destroying ability of people to critically think, or disobey gov. And Russia added 20 more years of this narrative. So you have people who were appressed by the state for 90 years. "Bad germans" had what, only 20 years? Imagine that 90 years for brainwashing can do. EVEN SOME OF MY RELATIVES BELIVE IN THE OFFICIAL NARRATIVE. This is beyond horrifying.

P.S.2 There is legit people who believe Ukraine is a state full of Nazis. Yeah... they also know that Zelenski is a Jew, but somehow they don't get the insanity of this idea

P.S.3 If anyone in EU need a IT support\hardware worker, or photographer or whatever i'm open to offers XD

[Ed Oscuro]

We need lots of IT support etc. here in USA too Looking forward to you being able to go back home soon P_HAT!

Everything you wrote agrees with what I see reasonable people saying. I put my faith in the younger generation of Russians who were using Netflix, Facebook (lol), etc. up until recent weeks when it was all suddenly shut off and Russia turned into North Korea as far as media was concerned. Unfortunately, the similarity to North Korea also means that it could be a more or less permanent state of affairs.

Interestingly, a few days ago there was an interesting event on Russian state TV when a couple very well-connected pundits actually called for an end to the operations in Ukraine. Last I checked they haven't been invited back on TV yet so maybe they didn't get Putin's blessing to say this, but it's an interesting development.

[P_HAT]

Interestingly, a few days ago there was an interesting event on Russian state TV when a couple very well-connected pundits actually called for an end to the operations in Ukraine. Last I checked they haven't been invited back on TV yet so maybe they didn't get Putin's blessing to say this, but it's an interesting development.

I haven't heard about it. But some of oligarchs were actually vocal of stopping it. And possible the biggest tv host in Russia atm Ivan Urgant seems to have moved to Israel. He was very vocal aganist any war, for a long time. And his show is also put on hold. There is also other big media names, many of them fled the country.

[BulletMagnet]

If I might once again ask our resident righties, who exactly is it that you'll never, ever support because they don't respect you and dismiss you as a bunch of ignorant morons?