Prelude to the Apocalypse

[Ed Oscuro]

Currently, Europe and N-America seem very keen to turn back the clock, if the situation in Ukraine is any indication.

I'm not sure the first-order cause of the situation in Ukraine is Euromerican. I would instead point to Putin's very consistent ideology about the loss of Empire and his ahistorical argument that these peoples properly belong and always have belonged in a greater Kievan Rus.

Fun fact: The whole smokescreen about NATO covers the basic fact that the event Putin loves to complain about was accompanied by the US giving Russia literally billions of dollars as a prize for leaving East Germany. Somehow, Russia's failure to recognize it was overextended and unwanted has become the center of a grievance against the West.

[Randorama]

As far as I understand Putin has dialled back the clock already a long time ago, and on just about everything.
Among other things, he is an ardent promoter of the unification of the Russian state and the Russian Orthodox Church, isn't he? (And a long list of ultra-reactionary positions, I believe).

On the Ukraine matter, you are more than welcome to argue that Europe and N-America need to start a war and, as far as I am concerned, also turn back the clock to year X in which problems were solved via wars because of course Putin is a bully and we (who's "we", anyway?) should stand up to bullies, and claim that the military complex are of course thinking for our greater good, and anything you seem to believe...

The usual crowds will certainly accompany you in the discussion.

[Ed Oscuro]

Your sneering contempt for interventions that were already taken off the table days ago by all the Western leaders is duly noted.

Speaking of the "military complex," it does seem Putin's making the case for arms sales more effectively than years of American imperialism (which was mostly funded by the American taxpayer up to this point, as the American voter seems to demand), with the Poles hoping to buy a shipment of $5Bn worth of tanks, and the Ukrainians buying whatever they can get their hands on.

[Mischief Maker]

As expected, a Rittenhouse copycat opened fire on a group of protesters in Portland, wounding 5 and killing a 60-year-old woman.

Unexpectedly, the protester who shot back was cleared of all charges and as soon as the shooter wakes up from the ICU he's facing murder charges.

Who'd have thought treating Rittenhouse like a literal rock star would have such consequences?

Spoiler

[emphatic]

Who'd have thought treating Rittenhouse like a literal rock star would have such consequences?

He was found not guilty in a court of law. Deal with it. How do you figure the shooter was a copycat of Rittenhouse? Did he kill the 60-year old woman in self defense?

[BIL]

Who'd have thought treating Rittenhouse like a literal rock star would have such consequences?

And conversely, who would've thought willfully distorting an unfortunate case of self-defense into Captain Nazi Hunts Down Fleeing Minorities, Gets Away With It would create a martyr?

It's almost like nobody on either side had a shred of principle or self-restraint. Ideological fervour, emotional incontinence, and blind ignorance, all the ingredients for an utter shitshow.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It's almost like nobody on either side had a shred of principle or self-restraint.

The Republicans specifically know no shame or hypocrisy. Worrying about those things are what those weak Democrats do and certainly nothing will let them interfere with lining their pockets with the gun lobby's money, especially not turning an idiot kid who deliberately put himself in a situation that could escalate into a conservative superstar.

The social justice warrior types who were frothing at the mouth demanding he be found guilty before any of the evidence even came to light (and despite the evidence afterwards that all pointed to the fact that he was not actually the initial aggressor) are just as bad. Idiotic for being there and putting himself in that situation he may be, but we all saw the trial, and we know that it wasn't as if he just started firing randomly into a crowd. Instead of lamenting America's love of open carry gun laws that led to an event that was as predictable as it was tragic, they want to paint Rittenhouse as a murderer. Scapegoating Rittenhouse and painting him as a literal monster for outrage clicks is easier for social media attention takes way less effort than actually tackling America's dysfunctional gun culture that wants everyone to be armed and ready to escalate to lethal measures at a moment's notice.

Neither side seems capable of dismantling the gun lobby. The Republicans don't want to because ethics are antithetical to them and the gun lobby makes them rich, and the Democrats can't because they're fundamentally incompetent. The gun lobby therefore continues to operate freely and gets away with spreading the bullshit idea that the only truly safe society is one in which every citizen is armed to the teeth (despite all evidence to the contrary, we have tons of data on this sort of thing). And of course the gun lobby does this because it means they can sell more guns and make money off the culture it has created, victims be damned. And this also ignores the sheer number of accidental deaths and suicides that also result from this particularly dysfunctional and distinctly American phenomenon (which so helpfully manages to leak into its neighbour, Canada, goodie).

---

It reminds me of the time the police responded to a local domestic disturbance, a woman fell to her death off her balcony, and social media exploded with claims that the police pushed her off. It was fuelled in part by her mother and her cousin claiming it was the fault of the police. Complete bullshit as it turns out.

What actually happened was incredibly stupid. It turns the woman along with her mother and brother were having some weird drunken brawl, and they'd all placed multiple 911 calls. The police show up, calm things down, the woman asks to go to the bathroom in her apartment, police are like "yeah, sure", and then the woman for some reason runs out to her balcony, barricades the door with a portable air conditioner, then starts climbing over the balcony railing towards a neighbour's apartment. The police are all "wtf" and while trying to figure out if she might be at bigger risk of falling if they break the door down and try to grab her, she falls anyways and dies.

However, before all the evidence comes to light, the family and other activists spread complete bullshit on social media, claiming the police literally murdered her, how awful it was as a minority that she's another police victim, how the police such at responding to mental health crises (despite it literally being their job when weapons are reported at the scene, there's a local mental health team that cannot respond if weapons are reported) and so on. Protests happen across the country. Eventually, the local police watchdog report is released and is incredibly detailed with names unredacted compared to usual reports in an attempt to curtail some of the sheer nonsense that spread on social media, but of course none of the people responsible for slandering the officers that were present by calling them murderers are held in any way accountable for spreading lies. Social media outrage clicks are worth more $$$ than actual facts.

[emphatic]

The Republicans specifically know no shame or hypocrisy.

Do you really think your point of view is unbiased? Seriously?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Why would my point of view need to be "unbiased"? Particularly applies in this instance with respect to the party that literally attempted an armed insurrection against its own democratic government, and whose leader regularly downplayed the pandemic as nothing more than the flu. Their continued hamstringing of gun reforms and ignoring the countless gun deaths plaguing the country are just one of their many, many atrocities.

Do you regularly tell Jewish people not to be biased against Nazis or something?

[BIL]

of course none of the people responsible for slandering the officers that were present by calling them murderers are held in any way accountable for spreading lies. Social media outrage clicks are worth more $$$ than actual facts.

We've enjoyed quite a bit of export lately on this side of the pond, too. 2020 was a sort of BLM LARPer Festival, a wonderland of Klansmen and Nazis rampaging across England, with only the valiant forces of Woke holding back Whiteness, aka a couple of terrified plods fleeing from a howling mob.

A Tale of Valour

Back to reality now, though, with nobody interested in black kids massacring one another in London, Liverpool, Manchester and sundry other English cities. The fad arguably came tumbling down when the #1 Angela Davis cosplayer got her head blown off by KKK-UK. I mean, by random gangbangers gunning for someone else at the ill-fated party.

I'm tempted to get my snark on and say that is a very US phenomenon, too (and by typing that, I indeed have! cake had, eaten too, omnomnom ), but of course it's just how inner cities the world over operate. A small percentage of hardened criminals making life hell on earth for the rest of the population. Telephone games are nothing new either, even internet-augumented ones.

What does seem novel, and foreign, is the embrace of shit-eating fantasticism. Modern life is rubbish! Why not be like granddad, and FIGHT NAZIS IRL?

Or perhaps... you think the enemy lies within? That too can be arranged, young ubermensch.

[Ed Oscuro]

I more or less agree with BIL on Rittenhouse. Conventionally speaking, he didn't really have a good reason to be there with a firearm and it was procured illegally. But we also know that the crowd around him was threatening him and he did get whacked by a skateboard. My opinion is that he should have been found guilty on at least one count of manslaughter for the guy fleeing him that he shot repeatedly in the back. The self-defense argument really wasn't that good there (and it's also a good lesson, for me, both of why it's good to have only trained people who can think rationally have guns - i.e. not most plonkers on the streets - and also why it's not good to harass a guy who has a gun).

But it's unfortunate how the Left keeps getting distracted and considers every case equal. No doubt, even without the Left's encouragement Rittenhouse would have been held up as a martyr by Fox watchers. But it was a misstep for the President to weigh in on his case.

The American media and police certainly do have a bias towards covering certain kinds of deaths and disappearances. If you're black or Indigenous, good luck getting more coverage than maybe your picture on the gas pump TV. White guys also disappear at a surprising rate and the media and police often don't think those cases are fun enough to chase down, even the really wild cases with a clear villain and lots of twists and turns. The gold standard for media coverage is still what Gwen Ifill astutely labeled "Missing White Woman Syndrome." That said, it seems like the tragic Gabby Petito case still has some unanswered twists and turns...

The Republicans specifically know no shame or hypocrisy.

Do you really think your point of view is unbiased? Seriously?

How does bias play into acknowledging the many very troubling examples of a GOP double standard? Ted Cruz called the January 6th insurrection "a violent terrorist attack on the Capitol" around the time of its first year anniversary. Then he went on Frozen Fish Heir TV to grovel for forgiveness about speaking out of turn. This is just one example of a whole pattern of GOP members occasionally saying one thing which hews more closely to reality, and then either not saying that thing again, or actually denying they said it. In one of his rare attempts at a good work, President Trump tried to get rally-goers on board with vaccinations against COVID. It didn't go well. Anybody can see what's going on here - the tail is wagging the dog. There is no comparable dogma having gained a stranglehold on the Dem party.

[emphatic]

Particularly applies in this instance with respect to the party that literally attempted an armed insurrection against its own democratic government

All of them? This armed insurrection - if true - would have had people ending up with very harsh sentences, which I've not heard anything about in the Swedish mainstream media my income tax forcibly pays for. The "unbiased" mainstream media that called Joe Biden "our friend, Joe Biden" while he was running against "Donald Trump", not "President Trump". I guess the "insurrectionists" were found not guilty then, like Rittenhouse?

[BIL]

My opinion is that he should have been found guilty on at least one count of manslaughter for the guy fleeing him that he shot repeatedly in the back. The self-defense argument really wasn't that good there (and it's also a good lesson, for me, both of why it's good to have only trained people who can think rationally have guns - i.e. not most plonkers on the streets - and also why it's not good to harass a guy who has a gun).

You may well be more informed than I am on this - I stopped following the case post verdict - but wasn't that determined to be an exit wound on Rosenbaum, acquired during his unfortunately literal spot of gun-grabbing? Would seem like an incredible oversight on the prosecution's part, given they were finally reduced to arguing Rittenhouse should've just let them stomp him.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

This armed insurrection - if true - would have had people ending up with very harsh sentences

The Republican party has actively censured the only two members to actually acknowledge it was an armed insurrection spurred on by the now twice-impeached former president. It's less a political party now so much as it is a cult. It's still actively engaged in efforts to provide cover for the members that directly and financially helped promote the insurrection attempt.

But it's unfortunate how the Left keeps getting distracted and considers every case equal.

Amen. I suspect these people are trying to take a page out of the right-wingers' playbook but it's not something that's productive or should be emulated.

[Ed Oscuro]

@ BIL: My impression from the video is that Rittenhouse continued to fire after the guy was fleeing. Now, in the moment somebody advances on Rittenhouse or tries to grab his gun, I'd say he has a justifiable case for self-defense. But I think it's also incumbent on him to assess the moment and stop shooting at somebody whose back is turned to him - and indeed Rosenbaum was killed by a fourth shot to the back. Of course, the jury heard and saw all of this too.

All of them? This armed insurrection - if true - would have had people ending up with very harsh sentences

They're coming. Maybe you haven't seen any of the videos showing the rioters running rampant at the Capitol. They were there battling police for hours, and a number of people died. One was a police officer who had voted for Trump, Brian Sicknick. Another was Rosanne Boyland, an unmarried aunt who was upset by child-trafficking conspiracy theories, trampled to death by "defenders of tradition" attacking police even as she and a friend called for them to let her up. Another was Ashli Babbit, the QAnon believer who tried to crawl through a broken window because all the very respectable gentlemen with her believe in traditional values, such as "ladies go first." Then there's the guy who died of a heart attack which, rumor would have it, was triggered by self-administered taser to the balls, although his family disagrees with this version of events.

The people at the Capitol were there for many reasons. Some people were there just to protest imaginary wrongdoings and the "rigged election." Some erected a scaffold for hanging somebody they didn't like. Others carried various "less lethal" arms (like sprays used against officers like Brian Sicknick; Michael Fanone was tased until he had a heart attack), stolen police equipment, and zip-ties for less than peaceful reasons. We also know some protesters were preparing to take firearms to the Capitol in the event there was some pretext for doing so, like one-eyed Stewart Rhodes, leader of one seditious faction (a Yale graduate who wears an eyepatch covering the eye he shot out).

The Justice Department plan for charging people who were at the riot is that the less severe charges are made first. And yes, they're being convicted, although often with low sentences (and it's transpiring that many of them have made false statements of contrition). As the Justice Department gathers evidence in the course of trying the less serious cases, they will head up the chain to more serious cases of wrongdoing.

[BIL]

Between the regrettably indistinct video, plus the autopsy and pathologist's testimony, it sounds to me like Rosenbaum was at most on his way to the floor when shot. Not a great look (none of this was), but given this apparently took place in four seconds following an avid pursuit into a corner, I can understand the jury giving Rittenhouse the benefit of the doubt.

It's a very retarded situation, exactly what I'd expect a foolish kid with a gun and an enraged habitual criminal on opposite sides of a picket line to produce. :/

[Mischief Maker]

...aaaaaand Russia is invading Ukraine as we speak.

[BIL]

Sheeeit.

Decent live coverage from Muppet Mayne (he's away getting a sammich, has been caning it for 13hrs apparently)

[Ed Oscuro]

And RT is telling the Russian people that Ukraine started it. Wondering who will be the first person here to inform us of that "fact."

I think one of the factors in Putin's thinking, which most commentators have missed, is the economic situation in Russia. This may be part of his attempts to hedge against gas in a shifting energy economy, and Ukraine was historically called Russia's bread basket after all.

[Sima Tuna]

Seems to me that Putin is trying to emulate ol' Adolph's invasion of former German territories, which kicked off the ol' dubya-dubya two. Not such a good fucking idea in a nuclear world!

There are only bad endings to this story.

[Ed Oscuro]

Great, now I'm seeing videos of a dead girl plastered all over Twitter. She was hit by something like a multiple rocket system strike, watched it come in as she was biking toward it. After the smoke cleared she looked down at her legs and collapsed.

Both NATO states and Russia have signaled that they aren't accepting any expansion of the war. Most interestingly Putin has made references to "the West in ashes" and "recent developments" in weaponry, maybe his attempt at a nuclear-powered hypersonic missile. In any case, Ukraine is going it alone at the moment. It's not clear whether Putin would see outside support of Ukraine's military and government as a provocation, but it sounds like it.

[Durandal]

Great, now I'm seeing videos of a dead girl plastered all over Twitter. She was hit by something like a multiple rocket system strike, watched it come in as she was biking toward it. After the smoke cleared she looked down at her legs and collapsed.

I'm really not looking forward to seeing staunch "socialist anti-US imperialism" types slowly transform into neocons once footage of war atrocities starts trickling in and annoyance at tankie-adjacents trying to downplay Russia's own brand of imperialism hits a breaking point. It's going to be much harder not to be goaded into a pro-war stance once arguments of defense and survival and humanitarianism start becoming more and more appealing as the situation gets incomprehensibly large and complex.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Getting into a world war with multiple nuclear wielding countries like Russia involved would be terrifying new territory for us as a species. What's happening in Ukraine is awful but I genuinely don't know what the best solution is (Putin needs to go, but what's the best way of making that happen, and without another similar figure taking his place?).

My concern is that China's going to be watching closely to see how events unfold, so that it knows just how much it can get away with going forward with respect to Taiwan.

[o.pwuaioc]

My concern is that China's going to be watching closely to see how events unfold, so that it knows just how much it can get away with going forward with respect to Taiwan.

It's not just a guess at this point:

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-n ... sia-2022-2

[BareKnuckleRoo]

"In the future, China will also need Russia's understanding and support when wrestling with America to solve the Taiwan issue once and for all," the editor later added.

i.e. go to war and invade Taiwan, a country whose democratic society values freedom of the press and basically bears no resemblance at all to mainland China nowadays. Seems they're all well aware war is not a question of "if" and rather "when".

[BryanM]

Looks like the apocalypse's coming in a little faster than expected heh heh...

... what was wrong with letting things slowly dwindle into The Postman? Do the oligarchs really hate Kevin Costner that much?

Thread title will be changed at the first nuclear detonation, don't wanna pull the trigger too early here...

[Sima Tuna]

The way things are going, you probably won't have long to wait. Once the first major nuclear power stands up in martial opposition to Russia or China, it's going to happen.

[orange808]

This:
https://www.bloombergquint.com/gadfly/s ... of-ukraine

I'm not particularly happy about this episode, but this isn't the time to lose our heads. Make no mistake, this happened because there's no clear response to be had. We can gnash our teeth a bit, but there's very little to be done. Dramatic, tragic, and it all seems completely unnecessary? Granted! It's not good, but there's no direct response. So, acknowledge it and move along.

History is peppered with these kinds of things. As usual, the masses will assume the American president could have magically fixed it (or will fix it in the future). That's ridiculously oversimplified and shallow; it's also untrue. This will take a long time to play out.

[Josh128]

Well, had Bidens administration not done everything in its power to reduce US energy independence and promote the idea that the domestic oil and gas industry is "the boogeyman", we could have sanctioned the purchasing of Russian oil and gas, which would have hurt them A LOT. As it is, we were sitting on $80 oil prior to this crisis and literally are at the mercy of OPEC and Russia when it comes to oil and gas. Because of this, we literally cant afford to sanction Russian oil and gas without risking our own economic collapse.

Its sickening incompetance on the part of our presidential administration. Instead of pursuing the interests of national security, we allow shit like this to be recorded in the halls of power and aired to the public. Embarassing shit involving the White House press secretary's full cooperation.

More embarrassing shit. Im just going to stop looking. This is downright shameful.

[o.pwuaioc]

Well, had Bidens administration not done everything in its power to reduce US energy independence and promote the idea that the domestic oil and gas industry is "the boogeyman", we could have sanctioned the purchasing of Russian oil and gas, which would have hurt them A LOT. As it is, we were sitting on $80 oil prior to this crisis and literally are at the mercy of OPEC and Russia when it comes to oil and gas. Because of this, we literally cant afford to sanction Russian oil and gas without risking our own economic collapse.

What we really need to do is wean ourselves off oil completely. Not only is it harmful to the atmosphere, but awful for the environment, and will eventually run out anyway. If it weren't for decades of "sickening incompetence" by the Republicans to prolong this failed oil policy, we wouldn't need to straddle the line between potential natural disasters and buying oil from tyrannical governments.