When did PAL consoles start coming with RGB SCART cables?

[nes.og]

I regularly hear people on FaceBook and Reddit groups brag about how great retro PAL gaming was because of RGB over SCART. I imagine they are too young to have actually gamed then since PAL gamers know they usually got the short end of the stick with mostly lazy game ports from NTSC at slower speeds with incorrect aspect ratios. Most games also didn’t take advantage of PAL’s superior color. This leads to my question. When did PAL consoles actually start coming with with RGB SCART cables? Not sure any 8 bit consoles supported RGB but have heard that even 16 bit consoles came with a composite SCART cable or adapter. If this was the case then I imagine there were 3rd party RGB SCART cables but imagine that most people didn’t purchase them? I appreciate info from those that were PAL gamers at the actually time, thanks.

Edit: I should note that PAL color encoding applies to RF, composite, and S Video but not RGB.

[spmbx]

I never had a console that actually came with an rgb scart cable, they were sold separately. Over here they were mostly popular in the ps1/ps2 days because with an rgb scart cable you could play all region games on a modded console. Playing an ntsc game with the included videocable meant black&white image. And since 90% of the people around here modded their console, they all got rgb scart cables though their modder. Always thirdparty.
Note that that's the situation around here, i'm not saying that's the case in whole of europe.

[nes.og]

Thanks for the info! I was under the impression that component was around once most PAL region gamers started RGB. Sounds like that may be correct. So PAL TV’s didn’t have composite? They came with a composite over SCART cable or adapter?

[Konsolkongen]

My Saturn and Dreamcast came with RGB Scart-cables. These were German models sold in Denmark. Other models in other countries might have included just composhite.

When I later got my PS2 I couldn’t figure out how to get an image on the TV because I was used to Scart auto switching and the PS2 only had composite

Mega Drive II was bundled with RF in Denmark.

[nes.og]

Thanks for your input. So there will a a way to switch to composite over SCART when there isn’t auto switching?

[Konsolkongen]

Yes I just had to press the input button on the remote. But having never had to do so before I had no idea what that button was. I remember calling the store where I bought the PS2 because I thought the console was defective

[Joelepain]

From what I remember my French Snes came with RGB Scart.
But maybe that would be a special case because it was the edition that came with Super Mario World and two controllers so maybe there was something special about this package.
Also France may be a spacial case because technically the video standard was SECAM and not PAL, so maybe it was easier for Nintendo France to bundle the console with a RGB Scart instead of making another revision of the console with a SECAM video encoder.
(The same reason the French N64 almost got a complete RGB output)

Also a little off topic but little rant here. Stop calling the PAL version of retro games "lazy port". In the 2D era if you want to make a game that match the speed and the aspect ratio of the NTSC conterpart, you literally have redraw every sprites and background and rewrite the game engine. All you can do "easily" is to use the greater vertical space offered, and that's what some games began to do.
It became easier with the 3D era but that's exactly the era were things began to change (slowly, but still...)

[nes.og]

Thanks for your response. Interesting to hear about console releases in different regions. As far as saying “lazy port” you bring up a good point. I know that a proper port would take more than a little work but I know some people get sensitive about these things and didn’t want to come off like I’m trying to debate. Just looking for facts from those that actually know from experience.

[nes.og]

Yes I just had to press the input button on the remote. But having never had to do so before I had no idea what that button was. I remember calling the store where I bought the PS2 because I thought the console was defective

Interesting. So SCART TVs had no direct composite inputs but has the option to switch to composite over SCART? Also wondering when PAL region TVs started supporting 60Hz?

[azmun]

When did PAL consoles actually start coming with with RGB SCART cables? Not sure any 8 bit consoles supported RGB but have heard that even 16 bit consoles came with a composite SCART cable or adapter.

RGB signal has been around since the 8-bit Sega Master System days. It's also been available in 16-bit era with PC Engine, Mega Drive and Super Famciom / NES. They were rarely bundled (if ever) with the console and usually sold as a separate or stand alone peripheral in Europe. I do agree with your assessment--this cable / signal type was often overlooked as not many gamers back in the day knew about their consoles AV output capabilities. Heck, took some time (over two decades) and a boutique company like HD Retrovision to develop 240p component cables for consoles like Super NES/Famicom and Mega Drive / Genesis.

[nes.og]

Good info! Of course when we were kids we didn’t care about any of this and just happy to play games lol.

[strayan]

Yes I just had to press the input button on the remote. But having never had to do so before I had no idea what that button was. I remember calling the store where I bought the PS2 because I thought the console was defective

Interesting. So SCART TVs had no direct composite inputs but has the option to switch to composite over SCART? Also wondering when PAL region TVs started supporting 60Hz?

Some had SCART sockets and RCA sockets for composite video. The RGB SCART sockets all support composite over SCART because they sync on composite video.

[nes.og]

Some had SCART sockets and RCA sockets for composite video. The RGB SCART sockets all support composite over SCART because they sync on composite video.

Were the ones with RCA composite jacks less common? Sounds like a lot of people were using composite even on SCART only models.

[Joelepain]

We had two Sony CRT sets at home. One from the early 90s I think, black, 4/3, full analog, the old good Trinitron glory I could say. The other from the late 90s, grey, 16/9, with all the fancy digital processing and the 100hz double strike thing.
On both sets there was 3 SCART on the back, all of them support composite video (I think it's mandatory). Only one of them supported RGB, the two other supported S-Video. There was one RCA composite and one mini-din s-video on the front.

On the most recent grey set, you could only choose the inputs AV1, AV2, 3 etc... The TV could auto detect the best signal for you.
On the black one, the older, the TV could auto-switch to the RGB input if the appropriate SCART pin was use but that's it. You only had one button on the remote control to go through all the different inputs and they were separated, so you have AV1, S-Video 1, AV2, S-Video 2, AV3, RGB, etc...

Most of our cabling was full scart. Even for composite sources like VHS (and that's where the bi-directional feature of SCART become very useful and your worst nightmare at the same time )

[nes.og]

Cool that SCART can support different video formats and aspect ratios but sounds like it can be a pain in the ass sometimes.

[Sumez]

Were the ones with RCA composite jacks less common? Sounds like a lot of people were using composite even on SCART only models.

Usually most decent TVs had two SCART plugs on the back, with one having RGB support and the other having S-video, and using one of these with an adapter for composite video was pretty much the "standard" in my experience. Most consoles came with RCA cables and an adapter, so I have a crapload of those adapters lying around.

Some TVs had composite/l/r RCA plugs on the front for a quick hookup, but obviously not really intended for a permanent setup as it looks messy. Also a lot of cheap discount TVs only had the RCA plugs for composite, that's especially common for those really crappy ones with built in VHS players. Otherwise RCA on the back of the TV wasn't common at all from what I've seen.

60hz support was kinda sneaked in the back door, and you wouldn't realise you had it until you started getting PAL games that supported it too. It was pretty common on established brands from the late 90s, but you can also find a lot of early 90s TV sets that have it I think.

[nes.og]

Nice, thanks for sharing. There are a good number of component CRTs in the USA that can be used with RGB transcoders. We can also RGB mod a lot of sets but RGB over SCART is definitely nice for PAL regions these days. I just think it strange when people are saying how great it was back in the day when it sounds like barely anyone was using RGB for 8 bit/16 bit systems.

[EnragedWhale]

In the UK the Sega Saturn came with a RGB scart cable, I had to buy a RF adaptor for it because my cheap 14” TV only supported RF.

I didn’t get a scart equipped TV until the Dreamcast was out and bought a official cable for it as it only came with a composite lead. I remember thinking it was weird that the 6th gen systems all came with composite cables. The Saturn is the only console I’ve ever bought that came with RGB scart.

[RocketBelt]

I never knew anyone use anything but the RF cables supplied with the consoles.
Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 were the first to be bundled with composite cabling, and a scart block adapter.
Even my late Dreamcast was bundled with a sega branded RF cable.

[nes.og]

Thanks for the info guys.

[neorichieb1971]

Where I live in the UK, most SCART devices were common among import consoles. Although the JP Megadrive and Genesis did not utiiize the RGB outputs in those regions commonly, the TV's in the UK did not support NTSC and so import shops would either hard wire them to scart or produce their own connector. The first iterations of this were the Megadrive and the SNES/Super Famicom. Some people had PC engines with hard wired RGB SCART.

The first commercial console that came with a stock RGB Scart cable was the Sega Saturn. Sega took the unprecedented move of putting a SCART cable in with the console instead of a RF unit. Whilst a lot of people enjoyed SCART out of the box, many people only had RF on their TV's. Electronics boutique at the time of 1995 had so many people coming back to the store to buy a RF unit that they sold out on the same day as the release of the console and then had to turn people away. It didn't go down too well with folk who made 2nd trips on the same day into the malls and found they bought a £400 console and couldn't play it.

I had previously bought a PAL 3DO and exchanged it for an NTSC model. I went to the TV shop and bought a Sony Trinitron with NTSC playback and used it with Svideo. PS1 came with RF and optional SCART at extra cost. N64 was composite and Svideo only.

Scart was supported on Xbox/360, GC, PS2 and PS3 but always took the avenue of selling the cables seperately.

I shied away from using SCART except for PAL games on my PS1 as I had a Japanese PS1 and colour only was only possible from the AV port using RGB SCART. I always found a buzzing sound on all cables at the time. Even today, I use everything except SCART up to this point. I plan to take the risk into the world of RGB in 2022. All my CRT's shift the image to the left and buzz like crazy with my current cables, although they are very old from the 90's.

[MKL]

Also wondering when PAL region TVs started supporting 60Hz?

On early scart TVs (the peritel socket became mandatory on Italian sets in 1985) the vertical frequency could be manually adjusted by turning a trimmer on the chassis so if the TV at first didn't sync a 60Hz input it didn't mean it couldn't. Here's a 16" budget model from 1986 displaying an RGB picture from a Black Tiger arcade board after tweaking the vertical frequency pot on the chassis:

https://i.imgur.com/oLUJ3LC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KhGgapl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2KhnSSl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ojysNbJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pt7offr.jpg

[Custardo]

I have a (non-working) 1983 VideoPac G7401 and a (working) French Colecovision that both have an RGB scart output.

[nes.og]

From RF to SCART, that’s pretty wild. Composite wasn’t used much?

[EnragedWhale]

All my CRT's shift the image to the left and buzz like crazy with my current cables, although they are very old from the 90's.

Can confirm the official Sega start cable that shipped with PAL Saturns in the UK does indeed have poor shielding. Audio buzz is terrible, especially on a white screen. Decent aftermarket cables cut this down to basically nothing.

[Konsolkongen]

Weird :/ Never had that problem with the offical RGB Scart cable included with my Saturn.

I have one of the newer Retro Gaming Cables RGB cables for Saturn too and there is no difference between the two with either video or sound. The only difference is that the original one is much higher build quality.

[nes.og]

I imagine console SCART cables probably had a smaller gauge without great shielding. Also no clean sync, just sync over composite video.

[SuperSpongo]

The first time me and my friends came into contact with RGB Scart was with my Amiga 500. I did not really have consoles growing up, my friends all used Composite with a Scart adapter for theirs. Funnily enough, I never tried connecting the Amiga to our family's TV, but always used my trusty 1081 monitor in my room. I always thought that being a "Computer" like our family PC, it can't be connected to a TV.
Couple of years later, RGB popped up again, because of modchip-equipped PS1s. A PAL modded PS1 only shows black and white picture when playing import games which I think has to do with the color carrier frequency being off. Once this became a problem with pirated games, suddenly everybody bought PS1 RGB cables

[nissling]

There were at least two revisions of the RGB SCART cable included for the Sega Saturn in Europe. From my experience the first always had issues with the connection for the green channel, giving the image a very obvious shift towards magenta. This very same issue can occur with many aftermarket models as well. The second revision seems to have fixed this issue and works flawless from my experience. I have not observed any buzzing or video interference.

I do have the second revision cable in use at the moment as it's by far the most universal and robust cable for the console I've used so far.

[EnragedWhale]

I’ve multiple official cables that buzz but all my Saturns are model 1’s so that probably explains it in my case. I use sync on luma cables now as they are universal between regions.