DS Consolizer by Woozle

[bobrocks95]

What is the status of this sweetie? What about Wii U GamePad support?

I do remember Woozle posting about it again on Twitter, and I asked him about Wii U GamePad support and he said he had considered it but had some technical hurdles IIRC.

[juji82]

IIRC Katsukity (the japanese company that made psvita and 3ds tvout mods) made one for the gamepad some years ago. Too bad he closed his business.
Edit : here you are : https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nisetor ... y-t14.html

[NewSchoolBoxer]

Been wanting GBA and NGPC capture card solutions. Can wait out this route for DS or go GameCube GBP/GBI for GBC bonus. I see game-tech.us has [currently sold out] Woozle GBA Consolizer for sale that supports GBC.

Thank you Lawfer for official Nintendo equipment information! Fascinating really.

Can someone enlighten me on what the native DS and GBA video formats and resolutions are? Like if you measured the output from the video encoder chips with no scaling, is it digital RGB at pixel perfect 256x192 for DS and 240×160 for GBA? The GBA Consolizer shop page implies GBA is digital uncompressed RGB at 320x180.

Looking for solution with most accurate video capture. Don't want video processing to make it look better, can do on my own and revert integer scaling. Is DS / GBA Consolizer by Woozle the way?

Only thing I dislike is the game-tech pictures page where they compare GBA Consolizer HDMI (RGB) vs Composite on Game Boy Player. That's really not a fair comparison using best video format vs worst. If someone can buy a $140++ kit and solder then they can buy a Component or RGB cable. https://www.game-tech.us/gba-consolizer ... composite/

[fwannmacher]

maybe this can be useful https://libdrc.org/docs/re/overview.html

[Lawfer]

Can someone enlighten me on what the native DS and GBA video formats and resolutions are?

Game Boy/Game Boy Color: 59.73Hz 160x144

Game Boy Advance: 59.73Hz, 240x160

DS: 59.83Hz, 256x192

3DS: 59.83Hz, 400x240

[Guspaz]

I know that on the Game Boy and Game Boy Colour, the framerate is technically variable, because you can arbitrarily effectively extend vblank by shutting off the LCD, and most games absolutely do this in order to get more time to access VRAM/OAM/palette RAM, since access to those is normally blocked most of the time. This is done by setting the appropriate bit in the LCDC register. This effectively extends vblank by an arbitrary amount, and not one aligned to normal frame time boundaries. Just, how long you leave it shut off before you turn it back on again. The next full frame after you turn it back on isn't drawn, so games always fade to white before doing this.

I know that the GBA has a similar control register, REG_DISPCNT, which appears to have a similar bit, FORCEBLANK, but I don't know if it stops the pixel clock like the GB/GBC's LCDC power bit does.

That might be relevant because, the GBA's backwards compatibility means that frame timings on the GBA can be variable since it can support GB/GBC software, but I don't know if the GBA's PPU does the same thing for GBA software, which would impact DS hardware due to its backwards compatibility.

[Extrems]

I know that the GBA has a similar control register, REG_DISPCNT, which appears to have a similar bit, FORCEBLANK, but I don't know if it stops the pixel clock like the GB/GBC's LCDC power bit does.

It doesn't. But REG_VCOUNT is writable on a DS.

That might be relevant because, the GBA's backwards compatibility means that frame timings on the GBA can be variable since it can support GB/GBC software, but I don't know if the GBA's PPU does the same thing for GBA software, which would impact DS hardware due to its backwards compatibility.

It doesn't. GB/GBC is buffered on GBA.

[Guspaz]

Eww.

[Gunstar]

From the github page:

On December 2020, we discovered that the Nintendo DS Lite's SoC (System on Chip) had a hidden feature: a leftover TV(Television) composite video output signal. This project contains our hardware designs and software code to restore this hidden feature and make it usable again.

Shame it's composite but still very interesting.

[Lawfer]

From the github page:

On December 2020, we discovered that the Nintendo DS Lite's SoC (System on Chip) had a hidden feature: a leftover TV(Television) composite video output signal. This project contains our hardware designs and software code to restore this hidden feature and make it usable again.

Shame it's composite but still very interesting.

VERY interesting, this looks like an easier and cheaper way to play DS games on a CRT than getting an IS-NITRO Capture and/or PARTNER-CTR Capture. Only downside is that it has no dual screen ouput and it is composite only (the IS-NITRO Capture has S-Video with dual outputs and the PARTNER-CTR Capture does Digital RGB with dual outputs or single output through component).

[fernan1234]

It doesn't. GB/GBC is buffered on GBA.

Does this mean I've been playing my GB/C games wrong all this time!?

Shame it's composite but still very interesting.

Yep, doubt composite can be good enough to replace something like a DSi XL, but it will be fun to play around with this if cheap/easy to install. DS Consolizer will still be the way to go though.

[Lawfer]

Yep, doubt composite can be good enough to replace something like a DSi XL, but it will be fun to play around with this if cheap/easy to install. DS Consolizer will still be the way to go though.

Composite on a CRT is fine, much better than playing on a tiny 4 inch screen.

[Extrems]

Does this mean I've been playing my GB/C games wrong all this time!?.

I guess I should also mention GBA is buffered on DS.

[Lawfer]

Does this mean I've been playing my GB/C games wrong all this time!?.

I guess I should also mention GBA is buffered on DS.

What does it mean for the end-user?

[Gunstar]

Yep, doubt composite can be good enough to replace something like a DSi XL, but it will be fun to play around with this if cheap/easy to install. DS Consolizer will still be the way to go though.

Agreed. 'Good' composite on a CRT is totally playable, certainly a fair trade-off for playing on a large screen.



I wonder how the final version will turn out, looks like it will need to be mounted to the DS Lite looking at the ribbon out? It would be nice if the ribbon could be swapped out for a long cable and the board kept near the TV.

[fernan1234]

Agreed. 'Good' composite on a CRT is totally playable, certainly a fair trade-off for playing on a large screen.

And thinking about it further, a composite-blended picture is probably going to do favors to a lot of the blocky, low-res graphics of the DS library. With a crisper signal, a pixel-effect grid filter/overlay becomes almost mandatory IMO, but not with composite.

I'm guessing that both this new board as well as the official capture kits with analogue outputs actually give 480i video, which would be perfectly fine on CRTs.

[Blacksheep]

And thinking about it further, a composite-blended picture is probably going to do favors to a lot of the blocky, low-res graphics of the DS library. With a crisper signal, a pixel-effect grid filter/overlay becomes almost mandatory IMO, but not with composite.

That's highly subjective. I like clean, unaltered pixels. Artificial scanline and grid effects were never something I liked.

[fernan1234]

That's highly subjective. I like clean, unaltered pixels. Artificial scanline and grid effects were never something I liked.

Yes of course, that's why I said IMO. Then again, the appearance of "clean, unaltered pixels" on the original DS screens is objectively very different from clean, unaltered pixels upscaled on a large, much-higher resolution display, or an entirely different kind of display. But maybe you like both.

[Blacksheep]

Digital-to-digital on digital display without artificial scanline / grid effect (like e.g. GBA consolizer can do) > RGB on CRT without artificial scanline / grid effect > composite video on CRT without artificial scanline / grid effect > Digital-to-digital on digital display with artificial scanline / grid effect (like e.g. GBA consolizer can do) > RGB on CRT with artificial scanline / grid effect > composite video on CRT with artificial scanline / grid effect.

Only regarding consolized solutions on their own merits here which excludes the various original screens of the handheld consoles, as well as other aftermarket screen solutions. Portable solutions would be another topic.


By the way, there is a relatively new open source GBA consolizer: "gbaHD":
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gameboy/commen ... ahd_build/
https://github.com/zwenergy/gbaHD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ2mpacuXGU
Pictures

[NewSchoolBoxer]

Can someone enlighten me on what the native DS and GBA video formats and resolutions are?

Game Boy/Game Boy Color: 59.73Hz 160x144

Game Boy Advance: 59.73Hz, 240x160

DS: 59.83Hz, 256x192

3DS: 59.83Hz, 400x240

Thank you! So DS buffers GBA to 59.83Hz and GBA buffers GB to give consistent framerate. Consolizer buffers to 60Hz, which I can accept for making video capture easy but I'd really like an option to preserve 59.73/83Hz. I'll assume the game-tech scaling resolution is wrong and that Consolizer is integer scaling like it says. Too bad I saw in review that the audio through DVI+ doesn't necessarily work on televisions. GBA audio being wonky is no surprise and 8-bit cuts the SNR down to cassette and VHS level. Still, is a strike against Consolizer, as much as I have headphones.

By the way, there is a relatively new open source GBA consolizer: "gbaHD":

Nice to have more options. Didn't know about this. As bare bones as it gets. Not sure I understand all the instructions. I need to buy FPGA development board to use USB-C cable to install the code, else I need $50 FlashPro?

I don't know about Reddit link claiming it's better than Consolizer just for using Spartan 7 over Spartan 6. 7 costs more and maybe 6 is good enough. How about comparing the SNR or side by side video footage or something tangible? I do like that the audio seems to work on televisions, based on the video capture showing 2 channels x16 bits at 48kHz. Artificial from native GBA though. 59.94 vs 60Hz is no issue. I give creator credit for not trying to make money on it. Would want to see a kit with all parts needed to get an idea of cost and give the creator a chance for referral link money.

As to why the mods use DVI versus compatible HDMI, I believe that is because HDMI® charges money to use their branding.

[Blacksheep]

I need to buy FPGA development board to use USB-C cable to install the code, else I need $50 FlashPro?

Looks like you need the Spartan board anyway. The FPGA runs the core functionality.

I don't know about Reddit link claiming it's better than Consolizer just for using Spartan 7 over Spartan 6.

True, that's quite unsound. I don't endorse anything specific written in that reddit post or its comments, I just linked it for the instructions (which I haven't personally vetted).

As to why the mods use DVI versus compatible HDMI, I believe that is because HDMI® charges money to use their branding.

That is correct.

[Aquamentus]

Is this thing dead? It’s been a looong time since we’ve heard from woozle. Why’s it so hard to play the DQ remakes on my TV without using emulation or nasty composite video?!

[Guspaz]

I believe PixelFX happened and took priority.

[jd213]

It was briefly mentioned in this stream at about 1:39:30:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoztK4YPqDk

Woozle unfortunately said he's not currently working on it himself, and then Dan and Christof seemed to indicate that they're still trying to work out the best way to implement it, since it's a very complicated due to scaling two screens at once, and the issue of being able to keep the handheld functionality.

The parts shortage is also affecting all of their upcoming products, but they said earlier in the video the GBA SP consolizer might be coming in the next 3-4 months. They're still trying to work on the PS2digital (which Dan said they originally wanted to get out this year), also trying to do a new version of the DCdigital, get the Xbox HDMI out but want it to be able to output 1440p, as well as other projects (with Cristof saying that they will probably be able to release a bunch of stuff as soon as the parts shortage is over).

I'd personally like to see them concentrate on the DS consolizer myself. Being able to play DS games on one (or two) monitors with an external controller is much more appealing than slightly better video quality for a console like the DC or Xbox (that being said, a new NES/Famicom HDMI solution would certainly be nice). But it's their projects, so beggars can't be choosers. I just hope they don't get burned out with all the stuff they're doing.

[bobrocks95]

Any morph updates earlier in that video?

Personally with upcoming scalers supporting HDMI input (OSSC Pro, PixelFX Morph), I'd like to see options for cheaper digital mods that output source resolutions. Whether eliminating scaling will actually result in significantly cheaper boards, or if others will be interested, I'm not sure. But if it doesn't sacrifice flexibility RE the actual scaling (it could on the DS), maybe it's something that could be looked into.

In a low margin market like this, ultimately it might not make sense to build out a lower-spec version though.