I DID IT! Share your latest 1CCs/other triumphs here...

[Jonpachi]

Is there anything worse than getting your first 1CC on a game, and it's not the highest score you've yet achieved?



I clearly still don't really grasp scoring in this game. I can do just well enough to get all the extends, but I have no idea how some of you are hitting 1B.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I feel that pain. It's actually quite possible for a first 1CC to be lower than a highscore because when you're aiming for the 1CC you refine different strategies and aim for something safer at the cost of a high score.

I recently cleared R-Type Leo's World version and then the harder JP version a few days later. Very fun, however to get good at the clear I really had to learn the stage 5 boss and the hoppers on stage 6. World version's the better one I think, and not just due to the lack of checkpoints. Its 2 button controls are better and the pods are more responsive. Feels more natural to play.

[SPM]

@Jonpachi GG! Now you have a reason to get another clear with a higher score haha don't you love that?
Basically keep as many (frozen) cubes on screen as possible all the time to keep the enemy multiplier up (don't let them break and collect them as late as possible) and don't use your beams on the bosses to get a x2 bonus.

Keep in mind that you get a bigger score the higher the difficulty is (so 1B could be even impossible in normal). My best run was 1B in maniac and the sum of my PBs 1.3 (whereas in novice it was only 100k) and don't know how to push that much further (I'm looking forward to seeing something close to 2B to fully understand the scoring nuances, but what I told you should be enough for now).

@Roo Those were fun to watch. And a clear with no extra lives remaining always feels good! The tension and relief is real there hehe

[heli]

Psyvariar delta set to very easy with maximum bombs.
The trophy proofs i have a 1CC.

[Jonst]

A very unexpected second 1cc in as many weeks after not clearing anything in years!... Rolling gunner overpower expert mode (no true last boss), score 3,295,597,620... don't know if that's worth uploading? or even if i can remember how to?! but i'm super stoked.

[bcass]

Definitely upload it. I'd like to see more people uploading videos of their 1CCs here. Not that I don't believe people who don't, but it's always interesting to see how others approach these games. It's also neat to see people just about scraping a clear too. Having done this several times in some of my videos, I can definitely relate to how stressful those scenarios are!

[Jonst]

^ I meant upload the score/ranking screen... i'm a donkey with computers! i still don't even know if i remember how to that it's been so long. I'll head over to the scores thread to see if it's worth trying to remember! ... it was a totally unexpected clear and didn't feel close to getting it.

[SPM]

R-Type Leo - Red laser only, no charged shot, 1CC
https://youtu.be/YdAPpwaduKs

Watching BKRoo streaming the game recently I wondered if an only laser run was possible. Got it with savestates and had a lot of fun, so tried again with just the red one (since the green and blue still could deal with out-of-reach enemies). So here it is! REALLY FUN!! And positioning becomes more important (something I love from the series), which is another plus!

[bcass]

Nice clears on R-Type Leo BareKnuckleRoo and SPM. I spent a few hours on this making save states a few weeks ago, and found the bosses from stage 3 onwards to be really tricky. It felt like there was a lot going on and that you needed good multi-tasking abilities (which I don't). I don't think it's as easy as it's relatively low ranking on the JPN STG Difficulty Wiki suggests (as is often the case).

[SPM]

Nice clears on R-Type Leo BareKnuckleRoo and SPM. I spent a few hours on this making save states a few weeks ago, and found the bosses from stage 3 onwards to be really tricky. It felt like there was a lot going on and that you needed good multi-tasking abilities (which I don't). I don't think it's as easy as it's relatively low ranking on the JPN STG Difficulty Wiki suggests (as is often the case).

True, those bosses are really fun but can be quite tricky at first. They follow well-defined patterns and have a certain rhythm though, so it's a matter of practicing a bit more, that's it. You've got this

I think it's better to just focus on dodging, and only try to deal damage whenever you feel comfortable.That's the main difficulty (trying to shoot a specific part of the boss can put you in a risky position, getting killed in the process... So prioritize staying safe)

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I don't think it's as easy as it's relatively low ranking on the JPN STG Difficulty Wiki suggests (as is often the case).

You're misunderstanding the list's rankings I think. The list is meant to show relative difficulty to other games, but just because R-Type Leo is ranked 15 out of 45 doesn't mean it's necessarily easy in an absolute sense. Other games at that ranking are 1-All of Under Defeat, Mushihimesama Original, and Guardian Force, which are not trivial clears by any means. The fact that there's a lot of games rated above R-Type Leo is because there's a lot harder shmups out there, but it doesn't mean R-Type Leo isn't challenging.

For reference, I don't think I'm bad at shmups, and my best clears on the list would be "only" at Rank 23 (Mushi Futari Maniac and Blazing Star), barely above the halfway point. The list is also subject to opinion, I'd rate Donpachi lower than the 16 it's at for a 1st loop clear (you can get a TON of bombs and just learn where to bombspam the tough spots), and Under Defeat quite a bit higher than 15 for a 1-All (decent supply of bombs, but it has no extends at all and some very fast enemy attacks).

R-Type Leo actually isn't an unreasonable clear by any means, it just takes some dedicated learning to deal with bosses and some troublesome sections. The stage 3 boss is about misdirecting its aimed attack, s4 boss is about navigating the spreads it fires, s5 is very tough and is about not getting overwhelmed with everything at once, and the final boss is tough, but by no means insurmountable. The hopping enemy section on the final stage is perhaps the hardest part to learn because their hitboxes are gigantic and can squash you easily.

I was chatting with SPM and pondering a gunpod only clear (no mashing attack, only use the gunpod to attack). This would probably need to be done on the JP version with checkpoints so you can actually get gunpods back if you die on a boss... but the World version has stronger gunpods. Silly idea at any rate. Nice to see you're not reliant on the gunpods (and honestly it makes sense not to fire them on many attacks since blocking shots with them is just as important).

[bcass]

I don't think it's as easy as it's relatively low ranking on the JPN STG Difficulty Wiki suggests (as is often the case).

You're misunderstanding the list's rankings I think. https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56114&hilit=japanese+stg+wiki
The list is meant to show relative difficulty to other games

I fully understand the nature of the list, and still disagree with many of the entries within it. When I was judging R-Type Leo's difficulty, I was comparing it to games that I had already completed that are in that list, not its absolute position within the list.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Ah, sorry, my misunderstanding then. Where would you put it on the list, then? I don't think it's unreasonably placed. I consider the ones on 17 definitely tougher than Leo (Gunbird is not a slouch, DDP has a lot of resources but consistent difficulty throughout the game especially from S3 onward).

[bcass]

Ah, sorry, my misunderstanding then. Where would you put it on the list, then? I don't think it's unreasonably placed. I consider the ones on 17 definitely tougher than Leo (Gunbird is not a slouch, DDP has a lot of resources but consistent difficulty throughout the game especially from S3 onward).

The only game above Leo that I have completed on that list is R-Type (1-ALL). I would place that below Leo, because I think R-Type requires little in the way of difficult dodging and is mostly about memorisation. Just for fun, here's how I would rearrange them based on games I have cleared in that small bracket of the list:

Original Positions
18 R-Type 1-ALL
15 Darius ALL
15 X-Multiply ALL
13 Akai Katana ALL (got this clear last night and am working on a TLB run)
13 Mushihimesama Futari BL ALL
13 Carrier Air Wing ALL
12 Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu 1.5 1-ALL
12 Batsugun ALL

My Positions (hardest to easiest)
Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu 1.5 1-ALL
Akai Katana ALL
Mushihimesama Futari BL ALL
Batsugun ALL
R-Type 1-ALL
X-Multiply ALL
Carrier Air Wing ALL
Darius ALL

In my rearranged block, I would probably place R-Type Leo between Futari BL and Batsugun. It's placing might go up a bit after I get the clear, but it will not go below R-Type.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I don't have as much experience with the first R-Type, and I know exact ranking is subject to opinion, but I am familiar with the CAVE titles listed there and can make some educated speculation about the positioning of those games on the wiki list (which I mostly agree with):

• You get a TON of resources in DFK 1.5 as well as Akai Katana. Learning the laser wheels is a major hurdle for the DFK clear, but the sheer number of bombs and hypers you can get to cancel stuff with doesn't make this an excessively hard clear by any means. It'd be harder if you're not used to bullet hell games, but from a mechanical difficulty standpoint, learning to use bombs and pointblank laser on bosses during the bomb to get hyper refills isn't too tough, and the game has autobombs, making it forgiving of hits. AK lets you use your special meter to go invulnerable at-will, so good use of resources will see you through the trickier spots.

• Futari BL Original has screen-filling shot types, particularly if you use Reco, and bosses get melted very, very quickly. Many of the game's attacks can be evaded by use of tap dodging, and the hitbox is quite small. There's admittedly very different movements involved in a bullet hell game vs R-Type Leo, so comparing the two is tricky, but a 1CC in both is comparable enough that I don't see any reason to quibble over a difference in ranking of a few spaces.

• R-Type Leo features 3 useful weapons including the boss-melting red beam, and freely usable homing attack that can quickly clear the screen. The first R-Type game is likely ranked higher because memorization is much more involved; you have to learn and plan ahead of time when to move your gunpod around, when to use the charge attack, etc. Leo on the other hand is mechanically much simpler, with the main decisions being when and where to use (or not use) the homing shot. Learning the game is much simpler, with a couple specific difficulty spikes being the primary obstacles to the clear. I also think Leo's a shorter game? That might be part of what influenced its ranking.

[bcass]

Actually it was Akai Katana Shin that I cleared last night, not the arcade version. I'm not sure if they differ much in difficulty? Eitherway, DFK1.5 and AK Shin took me a month each to clear. I'm not new to Cave games (been playing them since the 360 ports were first released) but I have only recently started to go for clears. In the past, I wouldn't usually get further than stages 3 or 4 in the 5 stage games.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Shin is easier than arcade from what I remember. You get way more bullet cancelling resources (chucking giant swords at enemies, woohoo), so even though you can't tank hits in ninja mode anymore and there's an extra stage, it's still the easier clear. Zetsu is harder than arcade as far as I can tell, basically being a widescreen arcade mode with an extra stage.

Congratulations on your progress! It sounds like you're nabbing some tough clears.

[To Far Away Times]

I don't have as much experience with the first R-Type, and I know exact ranking is subject to opinion, but I am familiar with the CAVE titles listed there and can make some educated speculation about the positioning of those games on the wiki list (which I mostly agree with):

• You get a TON of resources in DFK 1.5 as well as Akai Katana. Learning the laser wheels is a major hurdle for the DFK clear, but the sheer number of bombs and hypers you can get to cancel stuff with doesn't make this an excessively hard clear by any means. It'd be harder if you're not used to bullet hell games, but from a mechanical difficulty standpoint, learning to use bombs and pointblank laser on bosses during the bomb to get hyper refills isn't too tough, and the game has autobombs, making it forgiving of hits. AK lets you use your special meter to go invulnerable at-will, so good use of resources will see you through the trickier spots.

• Futari BL Original has screen-filling shot types, particularly if you use Reco, and bosses get melted very, very quickly. Many of the game's attacks can be evaded by use of tap dodging, and the hitbox is quite small. There's admittedly very different movements involved in a bullet hell game vs R-Type Leo, so comparing the two is tricky, but a 1CC in both is comparable enough that I don't see any reason to quibble over a difference in ranking of a few spaces.

• R-Type Leo features 3 useful weapons including the boss-melting red beam, and freely usable homing attack that can quickly clear the screen. The first R-Type game is likely ranked higher because memorization is much more involved; you have to learn and plan ahead of time when to move your gunpod around, when to use the charge attack, etc. Leo on the other hand is mechanically much simpler, with the main decisions being when and where to use (or not use) the homing shot. Learning the game is much simpler, with a couple specific difficulty spikes being the primary obstacles to the clear. I also think Leo's a shorter game? That might be part of what influenced its ranking.

Agreed on all counts.

Leo, especially the world version with improved firepower and instant respawn, is a good bit easier than the original R-Type. The last few stages do require some routing, but it's not nearly as strict as R-Type. R-Type's stage 6 and 7 are memorization hell.

[bcass]

It's interesting reading others reasoning, but I still can't reconcile R-Type's relatively high ranking in the list. I simply can't agree that its challenge comes anywhere near close to some of Cave's games when R-Type took me a weekend to clear and Cave titles are taking around a month each to clear (hopefully some will take less!). I took a long break from semi-serious gaming (best part of a decade) so the "not used to bullet hell" thing doesn't count IMO as I was out of practice on all counts (bullet hell, memorisation, etc.). The amount of memorisation required in R-Type, although significant, is objectively less than a moderately difficult Cave game. Maybe its a generational thing? I grew-up in the 80s so have a lot more experience with these 80s arcade games. It might not be that though, as Batsugun also took me around a month the clear.

[wiNteR]

For what its worth, I also do think that list has many problems. Now, there are two kinds of problems:
(1) First of these are which could be chalked down to opinion (at least to some extent).
(2) Others are those which are substantial enough that it is (very) difficult to regard them as difference in opinion (in my view at least).


There are close to a 10 or so examples that I could give based on those games I have cleared or those with which I have some experience with (but didn't clear). Some of these I could chalk down to difference of opinion to an extent and could at least plausibly fall in category of (1). However, indeed, some of the differences are indeed not reconcilable and fall into the category of (2) imo.


Now of course I do think that the list is reasonably right (or close to a good estimate) on a number of accounts too. At any rate, it is a useful reference to have (e.g. when one might be trying to find a new game to clear, the list gives a good number of names ........ and at least some estimate of diff. is useful when trying a new game).

[bcass]

Akai Katana Shin (Xbox 360) All-Clear TLB Botan:

https://youtu.be/CU8NxO1NlYQ

I wanted to check out arcade mode next, but for some reason the screen scaling options don't work in this mode, and the screen is scaled way too small to play on my TV. It lets you change the values, but the screen size remains the same. Is this normal? I have the NTSC-J release.

[Jonst]

^ Good job! ...check out sinmoon's ridiculous world record run on yt (i'm not sure if it's been beaten yet?) it's incredible.

as for arcade/origin mode, i'd say out of the 3 modes it's the most difficult as the bullets are faster than zetsu/climax mode and it's harder to build green energy as quickly as the other modes, plus it's the least fun imo.

[Sturmvogel Prime]

Broke the previous record in Arkanoid VS Space Invaders (PS4)

[copy-paster]

Cleared one of my longtime dream achievements, one loop clear.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Congrats!

[Stevens]

[quote="Jonst"][/quote]

Well hello! I hope all is well by you. Been hiding in the OTF:)

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I wanted to check out arcade mode next, but for some reason the screen scaling options don't work in this mode, and the screen is scaled way too small to play on my TV. It lets you change the values, but the screen size remains the same. Is this normal? I have the NTSC-J release.

Can you post a screenshot of the JP version's options menu you're trying to adjust?

[bcass]

https://imgur.com/a/FGNdnXA

According to another thread (either here or at cave-stg), the translations are:

X (horizontal) screen offset
Y (vertical) screen offset
Screen Zoom
Horizontal 横 Stretch
Vertical 縦 Stretch (same characters for yoko/tate)
Smoothing
Background Wallpaper
Background Opacity
Wide mode (use this for HDTVs)

I tried with Wide Mode set to on and off, but changing the Screen Zoom value has no affect.

[Jonst]

Nice! congrats copy-paster.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I tried with Wide Mode set to on and off, but changing the Screen Zoom value has no affect.

Are you adjusting the screen in the options prior to the game, or have you tried doing it in the pause menu? Each mode has its own screen settings as I am sure you are aware of, and I just tried both before starting a game and when the game is paused; the English release has no issues with screen zoom (widescreen TV, all the zoom settings work normally in the arcade/Origin mode). What kind of TV are you using? Are you connecting with HDMI? Maybe record an unlisted video showing what you're doing in the menu, I'm sure someone else with a JP Xbox 360 and the game can compare.