PC Engine - Avenue 6 pad / Extension woes.

[deezdrama]

So I got my core grafx / ssds3 hooked up to my 70" via a retrotink 2x pro..... I have a US turbotap connected to the core grafx with a very short (4-6") mini 8 pin din to large 8 pin din adapter. Then I'm using a 3ft long, large 8pin din to small 8pin din adapter extension cable from the turbotap to be able to use PC engine controllers on the US turbotap... Then my avenue6 pads that have been restored (cleaned,new membranes,new cords)
The ssds3 was bought brand new, core grafx had complete teardown,cleaning and recap. All ports were cleaned, So all components are new or thoroughly cleaned.

So I'm usually playing shooters or adventure titles on this system but always wanted to try out the 6 button fighters with 2 players on this system so bought and restored the 2 avenue6 pads, the turbo tap and adapters, extensions.....
But I'm having no luck with the 6 button avenue pads in street fighter 2 or other 6 button games.

Both avenue 6 pads work perfect in 6 button mode when directly connected to the system. All attacks work and pause works as intended.

If a controller cable extension is connected between the core grafx and the avenue pad the controllers function as intended about 80% of the time. The issue is run no longer pauses but acts as an attack and will only pause if holding in one of the 4 directions while trying to pause. I confirmed this with both controllers and 2 different new extension cords and swapped them all around with the same behavior.

If I leave out the extension cables and connect just to my US turbo tap using adapter (also new) I start getting even weirder behavior.

My character automatically ducks. Pause is an attack. Low punch and medium punch work but high punch pauses the game. Low kick works but buttons 1 and 2 do nothing. Also the dpad does nothing unless hitting diagonal up/right. I confirmed this with both controllers and 2 different large 8 pin to mini 8pin adapters which are about 3 feet long that are used to connect the PC engine controllers to the US tap..... The adapter from the tap to the PC engine is very short , only 4" or so.

Is the american turbo tap identical to the Japanese version besides them using different size din? Could it be the american turbo tap is not compatible with 6 button games?

I've read extensions cannot be used before the tap as the signal gets degraded. Could this 4" large 8pin din to small8pin din really be causing issues?
Should I just buy a Japanese multi tap?

I believe each controller had a capacitor in them and I think the tap does too. Could these be in need of replacement?

I know its not the consoles mini 8 pin din port as the pads work fine connected to it in 6 button mode.
With extension cable connected to the system (the beige monoprice ones) the controllers work fine in 2 button mode but in 6 button mode start acting a little funny with run only pausing if holding in a direction and acts as an attack if pressed alone.

If 2 extension cables are used the controller works fine still in 2 button mode but in 6 button mode it acts full wonky just like when using the turbo tap with adapters.

Has anyone successfully used 2 6 button controllers on the PC engine with extension cables?
Is it a matter of signal degradation and needing higher quality extension cables with better shielding?

Any other thoughts or suggestions?
I tried to ask this on a PC engine forum but mod never approved my account and on reddit no one knows.

Thanks!

[PC Engine Fan X!]

It's not recommended to use game controller extension cords with the TG-16 Turbo Tap (or even with the PC Engine multi tap) hence the quirky control issues with SF2 with your current controller setup. I'd recommend getting a proper PCE multi tap & hook up both NEC Avenue Pad 6 controllers to ports 1 & 2 (and plug the multi tap into the CoreGrafx's lone controller port without using a controller extension cord between the tap & the console itself).

NEC released the cool Arcade Pad 6 controller (reminescent of the PC-FX's gamepad layout) as well for use on the PCE consoles.

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PC Engine Factoid Time:

If you have a Hu-Card of Hudson Soft's Adventure Island & a Avenue Pad 3 or Pad 6 controller, start a new gaming session. At any time during the current stage, enable 3 button or 6 button mode on the fly and the current stage will be completed. You can do this cool "Easter Egg" trick as many times as you like until the eventual conclusion/ending credits staff roll. How cool is that?
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PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[deezdrama]

It's not recommended to use game controller extension cords with the TG-16 Turbo Tap (or even with the PC Engine multi tap) hence the quirky control issues with SF2 with your current controller setup. I'd recommend getting a proper PCE multi tap & hook up both NEC Avenue Pad 6 controllers to ports 1 & 2 (and plug the multi tap into the CoreGrafx's lone controller port without using a controller extension cord between the tap & the console itself).

NEC released the cool Arcade Pad 6 controller (reminescent of the PC-FX's gamepad layout) as well for use on the PCE consoles.

--------------
PC Engine Factoid Time:

If you have a Hu-Card of Hudson Soft's Adventure Island & a Avenue Pad 3 or Pad 6 controller, start a new gaming session. At any time during the current stage, enable 3 button or 6 button mode on the fly and the current stage will be completed. You can do this cool "Easter Egg" trick as many times as you like until the eventual conclusion/ending credits staff roll. How cool is that?
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PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Ive read a lot of bad reviews on those DUO RX pads but was still looking for a pair when I got a great deal on the two avenue 6 pads. The D pads work pretty good once I replaced the membrane with nes OEM rubber style membranes.
I'm bidding on a hori fighting commander 6 button which I've read is the best controller for the PC engine.
Also just grabbed an avenue pad 3 since it gives you select or run as a 3rd button.

I've read not to use extensions between the console and tap but never heard of issues using an extension after the tap unless its just specific to 6 button controllers.
I can use 2 extensions daisy chained together on the console or the tap with no issues so long as I'm in 2 button mode.
I'm sure its something to do with the way the console interprets the 6 button mode by splitting the inputs into 2 players input channels.

I don't know.... I was hoping it would of been a simple solution like replace the capacitor in the controller or tap to clean or strengthen input signals.
I have a PC engine multi tap coming so can alleviate the adapters and give it another try.
I might also try replacing capacitors. I'll report back if there's any improvements.

[Dochartaigh]

To confirm: they work hooked up directly, but not after you use adapters/extensions?

I don't know how TG16/PCE adds the functionality from 2 to 6 buttons, if it's an extra wire or more or what, but could those extensions be missing the pins and wires for those extra buttons?

I ask because I tried 4-5+ different NES extension cables and they completely didn't have the pin needed for the light gun to work (it was those cheap chinese manufacturers trying to save a cent or two) - it was simply not in the cable. Same thing could be happening here. FYI, I'm using the Avenue 3 on both my PCE and USA TG16 with extension cables and the multiport and it works.

[deezdrama]

To confirm: they work hooked up directly, but not after you use adapters/extensions?

I don't know how TG16/PCE adds the functionality from 2 to 6 buttons, if it's an extra wire or more or what, but could those extensions be missing the pins and wires for those extra buttons?

I ask because I tried 4-5+ different NES extension cables and they completely didn't have the pin needed for the light gun to work (it was those cheap chinese manufacturers trying to save a cent or two) - it was simply not in the cable. Same thing could be happening here. FYI, I'm using the Avenue 3 on both my PCE and USA TG16 with extension cables and the multiport and it works.

The 8 pin din and mini 8 pin din sockets the turbo and PC engines/duos use have limited input maps so when a 6 button controller is used it channels all the inputs by acting like there is 2 controllers hooked up.
So if you have two 6 button pads connected for a vs match of street fighter .... The first 6 button pad uses input maps from players 1 and 2 and the second 6 button pad would use all the inputs from players 3 and 4.
This all has to be channeled through those 8 pins on the consoles socket.


The extensions I bought are the monoprice mini 8 pin cables from amazon that after much research were the ones I seen recommended on reddit and various forums, even most amazon reviews state they were purched for this use....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001UREVZW/re ... UTF8&psc=1

These cables should be a 1 to 1 pinout, so pin1 on one end is wired to pin 1 on the other end and all 8 pins are wired to all corresponding pins on the other end.



These extensions work fine in 2 button mode even if using 2 connected together which is strange why it won't work with the 6 button mode.



What's confusing is that both my 6 button pads work fine connected directly to the console.

If I add just one 6ft extension to the 6button pad it works but start getting weird behavior with what inputs the buttons do.

With 2 extension connected to a 6 button pad all inputs are wonky, dpad becomes useless, and some buttons stop working while others do actions they are not supposed to.

If I connect just the turbotap (that has short adapter to make it compatible with the PC engine) and plug the 6 button pad in it behaves wonky the same way as if I was using two extensions.



All this behavior tends to make me believe its an issue of signal strength or clarity.
I've read the controller sockets have a ceramic cap that can cause weird controller issues if it goes bad and although I did a full recap on the systemthe only ceramic cap I touched was the jailbar fix.



I do have a PC engine multi tap on the way so that will remove the adapters from the equation but as of right now all I can do with my 6button pads is play 1 player connected directly to the console standing 4ft away from the 70" TV which isn't enjoyable lol.

I need to do some more testing with these controllers on my turbo grafx and super grafx and see if I have the same issues.

[Dochartaigh]

All this behavior tends to make me believe its an issue of signal strength or clarity.

Definitely check the voltage both directly hooked up to the console, and through the extension cable too. My Sega Saturn only had something like 3.x volts instead of 5v like it should and I could power regular controllers but not larger fightsticks style arcade controllers from them.

[deezdrama]

All this behavior tends to make me believe its an issue of signal strength or clarity.

Definitely check the voltage both directly hooked up to the console, and through the extension cable too. My Sega Saturn only had something like 3.x volts instead of 5v like it should and I could power regular controllers but not larger fightsticks style arcade controllers from them.

Good idea.... I'll have to dig up some pinout diagrams for the 8 pin port

[deezdrama]

Did some identical testing on my supergrafx this time and not the core grafx/ssds3 system I originally had the issues.


Pretty much had identical results except one of my avenue6 pads worked fine with one 6 ft extension cord but using 2 was too much.

What's weird is the other 6 button avenue pad would not even register as a 6 button pad at all even directly connected to the supergrafx.

When using the turbotap with the short adapter neither would work in 6 button mode just like with the core grafx but works fine in 2 button mode.


So I would say its something to do with the use of adapters causing signal loss, my replacement controller cords not being as well shielded as the factory cords, or that I'm loosing signal strength for some other reason.

Anyone have any leads to info on the controller circuit and its specs? I'm having no luck finding any info.

Anyone know what the purpose of the capacitors are inside the taps and controllers?
Both of these systems I've tested on I just fully recapped recently but have never replaced the controller or tap capacitors.

[BrianC]

I found the connecters on the TG-16 to be very finnicky. If a controller isn't plugged in just right, it will malfunction. I tested one of my 6B controllers with the tap and it worked, but it took some adjusting beforehand.

[deezdrama]

All this behavior tends to make me believe its an issue of signal strength or clarity.

Definitely check the voltage both directly hooked up to the console, and through the extension cable too. My Sega Saturn only had something like 3.x volts instead of 5v like it should and I could power regular controllers but not larger fightsticks style arcade controllers from them.

Good idea.... I'll have to dig up some pinout diagrams for the 8 pin port

Did some testing...

Checked continuity from controller pins to the controller cord connector on the PCB... All good.

Checked continuity and made sure pinout was 1 to 1 on all extensions..... Good.

Checked for voltage to controller ... 4.99v
With 1 extension..... 4.99v
With both extensions...... 4.99v

Through turbotap ...... 4.99v
so no voltage drops anywhere.


Checjed capacitance of the 47 microfarad cap in controller.... Read 56 micro farad.... That should be good I would guess..... I'm pretty sure if cap was bad then it would loose capacitance.

I noticed funky behavior on one of the 6 pad controllers when switching the switch from 2 button to 6 button mode.
Most of the time it would flicker the 6 button controls but go right back to 2.

Even though I cleaned the crap out of the switch contacts and the PCB I noticed physically holding the switch to the conductive area on the PCB for 6 button mode would not trigger it to switch.

I used a pencil eraser to remove oxidation on the switch contact springs. It worked great when holding it to the PCB.
Followed up with an iso alcohol cleaning and reassembled.... Worked great for about 10 min but then did the same thing and wouldn't register 6 button mode when the switch was flicked up.
I've cleaned the crap out of all switch contacts, bent them to exert more pressure, swapped them.
Nothing sofar has gotten this controller to act right.

The PCB/traces look fine, contact pads look fine, I've found no shorts, getting 5v, I'm about to just give up at this point.
Must be something in the 6 button switch circuit?
I've went over both test systems with fine tooth comb.... All have been recapped and cleaned and maintenanced.
All cords and extensions are new. Everything is pristine... I just don't get it.

I have a PC engine multi tap coming to test instead of the turbo tap plus adapter but that won't matter since I can't even get one of the pads to register 6 button mode