Weightlifting/exercise thread

[Randorama]

Stevens:

Thanks for the chart! Right now I would need to try out the various steps in the progression and understand at which step I should start my progression towards my one arm push-ups.

Looking forward for the pull-up guide, too. I will be back to the gym in early September, so I am studying the books again for a bit, and trying out movements on a rather casual basis.

DDDP: it sounds like a good idea. I will try them out when I will be back training. I am also tempted to see if I could actually use any of the typical gym machines for one arm exercises.

On a tangent: I had a routine talk with my father, who's a 6th dan in Judo and trained in various other martial arts for military purposes (retired general in the Alpine troops).

He trolled me by saying that body weight exercise should also involve other people, not just my own body. Nothing makes you stronger by sending a big guy flying, according to him

What's your take on this point, lads?

[GaijinPunch]

He trolled me by saying that body weight exercise should also involve other people, not just my own body. Nothing makes you stronger by sending a big guy flying, according to him

What's your take on this point, lads?

Gay or hippie -- one of the two.

There is an actual attractive woman in the gym in San Jose from time to time. She looks like Cammy from Street Fither (no I'm not taking pics). I saw her do a one armed pull up the other day.

[Mortificator]

Periodicals from the '60s had some... ideas.

Spoiler

[GaijinPunch]

[Stevens]

Wait...

Is that Ace and Gary?

[GaijinPunch]

Wait...

Is that Ace and Gary?

Sho is!

[Randorama]

Gay or hippie -- one of the two.

Excellent

We all know what "contact" is about, in "contact" sports

There is an actual attractive woman in the gym in San Jose from time to time. She looks like Cammy from Street Fither (no I'm not taking pics). I saw her do a one armed pull up the other day.

If she looks like Cammy, she must be small-sized and wiry? Being "small" and compact is an advantage in body weight exercises. This is not to say that we shouldn't train for one arm pull ups, of course

[drauch]

EmperorIng: Strength Rules by Danny Kavadlo has a very clear, very nice introduction section to basic exercises for the upper (and lower) body.

I know you're trying to help, but I really don't think it's necessary at all to read a book just to get some basic exercises. That information is so plentiful. I doubt he's wanting to go as balls deep as y'all have been in these last few pages and doing bodyweight pinky backflips .

[Randorama]

EmperorIng: Strength Rules by Danny Kavadlo has a very clear, very nice introduction section to basic exercises for the upper (and lower) body.

I know you're trying to help, but I really don't think it's necessary at all to read a book just to get some basic exercises. That information is so plentiful. I doubt he's wanting to go as balls deep as y'all have been in these last few pages and doing bodyweight pinky backflips .

Well, the books that Stevens mentioned (and the one above is one of them) go from "this are the absolute basics" to "how to do one-arm handstand push-ups".

I went for the lazy route and mentioned again one of these titles, since it has a very clear introductory section to the very basics, and is written with a decent sense of humour.

You are more than welcome to suggest sites with one-page explanations of basic exercises, as to be honest I didn't bother to check any.

...But you never know, EmperorIng may start from the basics and the next thing, he's doing pommel horse training with ease

[Stevens]

To echo Randorama: All of the books suggested stress mastering basics and proper form above all.

And the basics are fantastic for the overwhelming majority of people.

Standard push up, two legged squats, leg raises (laying on the ground), and the like will get anyone to a competent level of strength.

Some people want to to go beyond that though. Pound for pound I want to be as strong as possible. I also understand that I will be achieving this over the course if my natural life. Catastrophic occurrence aside I'd like to drop dead one day and be 40 years stronger than I am now.

I also love Danny Kavadlo's sense of humor. I actually bought Strength Rules for his philosophical musings. Early on in it he says something like:

"Everyone in your life will benefit from a stronger, happier, more confident you. But the journey is yours and you must walk it alone"

That resonates will me now and then during my early morning sessions at work since it's just me by myself. And maybe some music:)

Anyways yesterday was leg day (say it like the song Head Games by Foreigner). One legged squats (9 each side) and I squat down until my butt hits a box 12 inches off the floor. Not quite an atg pistol as I still lack the ankle mobility (I do them barefoot - shoes make them easier), but its really close. I have done them with a counter weight before, but knew long term was short changing myself.

I got back on the spin bike yesterday after getting away from it too.

Archers today followed by some hanging leg raises. As you were gentleman!

[DDDP]

Been hot and humid here, plus I'm fasting. So I'm laying off most of the intense cardio / high-intensity lifts and working at low/mid range intensity, including lots of isometrics and stretching. For some reason (maybe it's how muscle tissue relaxes or something) it is much easier to stretch out and loosen up, so I'm taking advantage of it during the remaining hot to improve range of motion: german hangs and stcs for shoulders; pancake stretches and leg-split progressions for hips over the past week, and I'm seeing some results.

Good to see you keepin at it Stevens and others.

[Stevens]

Same here. You're not near Brooklyn by any chance?

[DDDP]

Nope, Michigan, but thanks for lookin out.

[GaijinPunch]

Anyways yesterday was leg day (say it like the song Head Games by Foreigner). One legged squats (9 each side)

Mine was today, and zero 1 legged squats. I got a lot of work to do on my legs... mainly b/c my back is not amazing so squats w/ a barbell have been out for ages.

A guy I knew in Tokyo (Brazilian) has really taken his physique to crazy heights. He was always into kick boxing but now he's about 5% body fat. Probably weighs 160 or so but could outlift me in anything. Anywho, he posted some of his workouts he does on the road. Apparently he travels a lot. He still could be on the cover of Men's Health and when travelling only uses resistance bands, a water bag, a suitcase (not a joke), and gets creative with chairs and desks.

[Stevens]

Comically when we were away a few weeks ago I considered using our suitcase as a squat base but it was a little too high. Wound up using a paint can with a book on top of it. Thanks Terry Goodkind!

5% is pretty crazy. About ten years ago I experimented with my diet for about a year. Was probably 5 - 7%. Shredded, but admittedly not even remotely as strong as I am now.

After a year I realized it wasn't fun, I had to give up pretty much everything food wise. Just wasn't sustainable for everyday living. I am far happier, and more fun, now.

[Randorama]

5% is a percentage you find in professional cycling racers, on-season, and probably in professional bodybuilders, also on-season (and in other sports in which being "fat-free" means being competitive).

More in general, it is not an healthy amount of body fat, as the immunitary system becomes fairly weak and this causes a series of related health issues (any cyclist will confirm that...).

In normal ife, 10% for men already qualifies as "very slim" and as certainly tricky to maintain, and the immunitary system must be monitored all the time.

Said this, I am finishing the second rest week out of three, and went up about 3 kgs by simply eating a bit less than the usual, but simply walking every day (little stuff, with the waifu).

On a tangent: the Kavadlo bros seem nice guys and smart coaches. Danny's philosophical musings in Strength rules do not always find me in agreement; Al's blog posts tend to be really nice and balanced.

Neverthless, being a classical-leaning person myself, I will always respect a coach who invites people to think hard about what, how and why are they doing whatever they are doing, when they are training.

...said this, leg day is all good and dandy, but do you guys also train your third leg?!?!

[/insert aborted laugh track here]

[GaijinPunch]

I was just taking a stab at the percentage, but basically he looks like a medical illustration of the muscle system -- you know a body w/ no skin.

One of the suitcase exercises is him holding it out, then makes a circular motion where it goes around his head and back in front. Pretty good idea.

[Stevens]

I haven't forgotten about your pull up progression Randorama!

[Randorama]

Coach, I am on holiday, and I need to study to devise my pull- and chin-up progression

Seriously though, I believe that I need to test which "progression point" I can start from. I know that I can handle pull-ups with a towel (relatively) easy, but I want to see at which point they start becoming the right challenge.

Also, I realised that playing with weight redistribution and leverages could be pleasant.

I tried some push-ups with feet on a relatively high drawer, and one-arm push-ups on parallelettes (30 degrees from the floor or so), and they were both around the right level of challenge.

I want to test archer push-ups as well, and raise my handstand static time to 120 secs or so, before focusing on handstand push-ups (I need a better form and sense of balance).

I am half-tempted to also swith all machine-related training to one arm/one leg movements, but I would need to make a risk assessment analysis before that (i.e. figure out if I can get hurt easily ).

GP: OK, I thought he actually posted the value himself but yes, anything below 10% will look like that, if you do not really have any excess skin (i.e. if you've always been skinny and you get even skinnier).

A body fat calculator page (with suggested percentages per age) is this one. You can insert your measures right after waking up and having gone to toilet to see how you are faring, and if your fat levels are good enough.

[GaijinPunch]

Interesting... the neck measurement is a game changer. I've just pigged out and it's got me at 19% (Acceptable). That might go to 19% after my morning shit tomorrow. The thing is I usually eat something first. I'm also going off of my last weight on the "real" scale at the gym. I'll bring my tape measure w/ me next time to get a better weight - but that has almost zero effect it seems.

[Randorama]

Ah, yes, necks always tell you the real deal at a glance, once you learn how to read them. An interesting bit, though, is that a bigger neck will correspond to a lower body fat percentage.

As far as I know, it works likes this:

Especially for men, necks show the level of general fitness because the neck muscles depend on the upper body muscles, for their development.

If you don't train, the neck may not appear "big" (i.e. the circumsference may be smaller) and it may look smooth, i.e. the wind-pipe and the surrounding muscles may be hard to discern.

If you train, become stronger and lower your body fat percentage, your neck will start looking much more defined and tense, especially when you raise your trapezoids and shoulders (...or when you look upwards in the mirror).

Waist also matters though, since it is the other indicator of how much body fat is currently deposited around your other main muscle group: the abs.

Waist variation can be steep: I go up and down 2-3 centimetres (one inch) within one week. I may feel that trousers are OK on Monday, loose on Friday (end of the training week), then tight on Sunday night (after the week-end, resting and eating for 2 days). The neck takes months if not years, to grow bigger.

The key point is that weight is seldom an indication of how much fat a body has, and thus of the general level of fitness and health of an individual (or: BMI is bullshit; measure your whole body, not one aspect).

You can play with the calculator a bit and see what values you get if you become heavier but also get a smaller waist (=slimmer, less belly fat) and a bigger neck (=stronger, bigger muscles).

A bigger neck is always a good thing - you can only get one by doing training that will make your upper body stronger and straighter, and given the jobs we do, it is a must-have skill.

BTW!

Coach, I decided to train archer push-ups, raised feet push-ups (at roughly my height), and pull- and chin-ups with a towel. Form sucks balls, but I suspect I have a new set of exercises for the upcoming semester

[GaijinPunch]

Okay so first thing in the AM, waist was an inch smaller. Went into the mirror and I *think* I got the neck measurement right (doing it above my throat) and am at 17.5%. Now, I could go and give birth after my morning coffee (Dark Matter, from Chicago, btw -- it's great) and knock that down further but I think I'm at worst at the cusp between "fit" and "average". Given my age I think that's not too bad.

Trigger warning - new topic:
I'm technically going to deload this week -- mainly because I am going to be out of town for about 5 days. I had always thought a great deload was to simply ditch the weights. Keep doing cardio. Do some body weight. Do anything but don't lift weights. Reading around, that seems like bad advice. There's no black and white, but most things I read seemed to think just dropping the weight and doing the same routine for a week is good enough. One even said, as if he was pointing at me, "there are so many weeks in the year that will cause you to be out of the gym that are beyond your 0control [vacation, funerals], don't add any more to it". So, given I have until Tuesday (maybe Wednesday if I wake up) I'm going to scrunch my 5 days of weights into 3 and cut the weight by like 30%. Those who know me know where I'm going... my guess is I will lose 3 pounds in the 5 days I'm gone if history is any guide.

[Mortificator]

I though I knew but Googling says it's virtual this year? Anyway, my body composition scale also puts me at 17.5%, though you have a few inches on me (but not where it counts ). Bioelectric impedance isn't all that accurate, so I should take some physical measurements and run the numbers when I can be assed.

While it's not too likely in the modern world, I have to think how Mr. 5% would be in trouble if he ended up in a survival situation without some jiggly stored energy reserves. Still, I'm going to try and cut mine a little. I've done intermittent fasting routines in the past, and they're definitely not for everyone, but getting back onboard I'm mostly through a planned 30-hour fast. It's almost easier than reducing what I eat daily; once my autonomic system realizes nutrition isn't forthcoming it stops nagging me with the 'hunger' instinct. Coffee or tea, either unsweet or with 0-calorie sweetener, help get through the early portion. And I'll fill the last 30-60 minutes with lower-intensity cardio, stationary bike in this case.

In other news, my wrist is now at the point were only certain motions are a problem... yanking something off the floor palm-up, lifting an object across my chest.

[Randorama]

Re: out of town stuff (Ah! You must really be an aficionado, GP!).

In general, what I know from (a poor) memory is this:

You can always recover the missing days by extending your week routine with an extra workout day (i.e. go from 5 to 6 days). It adds a semi-random spike of difficulty that can benefit your training regime.

Ideally, you want to be sure that you train N out of N days and rest M out of M days per year, and if this entails a bit of reshuffling, you should be fine.

Any peer-reviewed/professional articles on the topics will certainly offer a more accurate picture, on this topic and on any nutrition- and training-related matters; I can suggest to keep a schedule file, if you lose track easily (I do).

Re: % of love handles. I also use tea as an "appetite killer", and it works quite fine for me. I do eat often, as I tend to have problems eating big meals (i.e. feeling stuffed very quickly).

I wouldn't worry too much about the numbers regarding body fat, as age is a factor.

If you double-check the webpage, you guys will probably discover that you need to drop 1% or so to be in an ideal range for your age. Lower but double-digit levels (e.g. 12-13%) should be fine - that's the "slender athlete" look.

[GaijinPunch]

I though I knew but Googling says it's virtual this year? Anyway, my body composition scale also puts me at 17.5%, though you have a few inches on me (but not where it counts ).

Badump, tsh! And you're not Googling the right thing. Plan B or Renegade will help.

[Stevens]

GP - I'm huge proponent of rest weeks and have two or three built into my year.

Sometimes I'll go for 10 - 12 weeks straight and notice myself a bit more tired than usual. I'll make it a rest week.

Definitely will stretch once or twice and get on the bike once, but no strength training at all. Listen to your body, no good comes from training if you're tired.

Golden advice from (I think) Randorama - keep a journal. I'm on my third notebook. Costs less than a dollar, you can't forget the password, and it never needs to be charged.
I write down what I do each day (each page is a week) and how much I do. That's it, and I always know what I'm supposed to do the following week.

It was a good week. I'm close to adding small amounts of weight to my dips again. Archers are going well, but I'm just about at the point I think where 1 rep every three to four weeks is realistic. Currently at 12 each side and I'm pretty sure it will be 12 again next week. I'm wondering if I can't move on from them, but another few weeks won't hurt.

Re: push ups.

Randorama, I noticed you're training two types of pushups. I'm not sure you need to.

I'm big on doing the hardest version of whatever exercise you can do with good form. If you're archers are on point with full ROM I would say you can ditch the other set.

If you're not getting full ROM on a unilateral exercise then adding the hardest two handed version is a good idea. The other reason to do the declines would be that you simply like them. If that's the case I would suggest doing them after your archers and no more than a set or two.

If your towel pull ups are solid you're on your way. More later.

Stay strong farm.

[GaijinPunch]

GP - I'm huge proponent of rest weeks and have two or three built into my year.

Sometimes I'll go for 10 - 12 weeks straight and notice myself a bit more tired than usual. I'll make it a rest week.

Yeah that's what I had always lived by. I think it was 9 or so weeks for me usually. Reading around I haven't been able to find anything that says don't lift any weights -- just drop it significantly. I'm getting a bit of mix -- 3 days of non challenging weight, then 5 days of nothing but riding a bike in the scorching heat. I'm at 6 weeks though. My upper body is fine but my ass is killing me.

I'm hoping to finally bite the bullet and go see mini me around new years. If nothing changes, that's 2 weeks of quarantine in the apartment. Will have to get creative w/ stretch bands and whatnot.

[Randorama]

RE: push-ups.

Steve, are handstands a type of push-up? (OK, this one question sounds a bit idiotic...).

I was thinking that declines are a good way to slowly move onto full handstand push-ups...but then the question is: am I doing two overlapping types of push-ups, by doing archer and decline push-ups?

I admit that I am enjoying both, so any suggestions on combining and balancing them are 120% welcome.

Towels and pull-ups: I can do 2-3 pull-ups per side, with my free hand at nipple/lower ribs height.

I need to work on grip and tension: I am one of those guys who needs to work a lot on skill and form, but once I get them right, I can aim for perfection. The Naked Warrior (Tsatsoulinas' book) is a goldmine of information on this topic, so thanks again for suggesting it.

Re: journal (a bit of a TL; DR part; bear with me).

I actually use an excel file for my daily schedule, and I include work, rest, meals, etc. in the schedule.

My work revolves around rigourous self-planning: I need to be able to split a(n academic) year (=2 semesters) of work into working weeks, days, hours etc. and meet all the relevant deadlines.

This means knowing how many hours, for instance, will it take me to write up a paper, section by section, or prepare a class for the students, and so on. I often do this for assistants and students, too.

Lack of planning means lack of training and free time, as I learnt the hard way when I was in graduate school.

I know people who spent entire lives without learning how to plan, and ended up being completely engulfed by their work (academia is like that). So, I have excellent reasons to work hard on planning long-term.

For training, I plan in the same manner I plan for work, and this means devising a routine that I follow for 23 weeks or so, with expected outcomes, training schedules per day, and so on.

I check the schedule every morning, then complete the tasks (which are based on 2/3-hours slots), and delete the content in each slot (=excel cell) when I am done.

If something happens and I cannot train, the training slot for day X is cut and pasted to a free slot on another day. I do this for work too: once a schedule is in place, handling unexpected events is easy, with a bit of flexibility.

The format is not important, but I would say that from a psychological point of view, it is important to establish rules that allow you to strike-through a task on the notebook and say: "Done! Goal achieved!".

[DDDP]

Trying to cut down fat/skin as the cold weather slowly approaches, so I've been on a stricter fasting regimen these last two weeks. Usually looks something like: eat the Last Meal, fast for 3 days (1st day is always the hardest), eat another Last meal, fast 2 days, then normal (OMAD) eating over the weekend. I'm really not fond of the "bulk and cut" mode of fitness. A lot of extra calories (esp protein) are consumed, which means $$$. Maybe that works great for string beans trying to get ripped, but for a fatty trying to lose weight it didn't make sense to me. It also seems to help w soreness after a heavy day of lifting / exertion, at least in my experience.

Trying to get that foundation of joints/tendons stronger so that I can push myself into harder gym ring forms. Stretching and isometrics, big time, all the time. Right now things like chinups, stcs, pelicans, dips, and ring pushups are plenty difficult, but I wanna accelerate into the more challenging static holds on my progression list like tucked planche and tucked lever. Not quite there yet.

Hope erryone is crushing their goals. Be patient w yourselves. Injury means less future training time.

[Stevens]

RE: push-ups.

Steve, are handstands a type of push-up? (OK, this one question sounds a bit idiotic...).

I was thinking that declines are a good way to slowly move onto full handstand push-ups...but then the question is: am I doing two overlapping types of push-ups, by doing archer and decline push-ups?

I admit that I am enjoying both, so any suggestions on combining and balancing them are 120% welcome.

You are correct, which is one of the things I love about this stuff. Your progression to the end point may be different than mine, but it will still get you there proper. You can absolutely use decline push ups to work your way to HSPU's. As your feet get higher a decline PU becomes a HSPU. That said to get the best results you may want to consider doing them on different days.

Pushups are your horizontal push and HSPU is your vertical push. The muscles definitely have some overlap even though the plane of movement is different. So when your feet are on the lower end of the decline there will be more, but as they get higher the overlap will be less and less.

Now that said through my own experience I always had a really hard time getting it up for HSPU's on my push up day because push followed by more push.
I would have an excellent push up session and my HSPU's would fall flat. I racked my brain for far longer than I would like to admit before I finally switched my HSPU to my pull up day (I know I've mentioned this a few times, but the results have been astounding for me).

For reference - My Pull Up/HSPU day is day 1 of my week, and my push up/core day is day 3. I train the weaker plane first, give it 48 hours rest and then train the stronger plane. I guess it's the same thing as if I'm doing archers I train my left side first cause it is slightly weaker than my right.

So you're not spinning your wheels, I saw declines and completely forgot they can be used as a progression for HSPU. Experiment with your schedule though, you may see improved results.

Towels and pull-ups: I can do 2-3 pull-ups per side, with my free hand at nipple/lower ribs height.

I need to work on grip and tension: I am one of those guys who needs to work a lot on skill and form, but once I get them right, I can aim for perfection. The Naked Warrior (Tsatsoulinas' book) is a goldmine of information on this topic, so thanks again for suggesting it.

Finger push ups along with some hanging work will improve your grip strength. Admittedly I don't actively train hanging specific work at the moment, but I do find time for finger push ups on the last day of my week. And yeah Pavel will not do you wrong on well any topic.

As far as your journal goes it sounds like you have all that on lockdown.

DDDP - If I am reading that right - you eat followed by a three day fast, eat, two day fast, and then one meal a day over the weekend? That is really impressive. How long have you been on this schedule?

I usually do 16 - 18 hours daily followed by a 24 hour fast Sunday night into Monday night. Generally speaking I'm hungry enough to eat about a meal and a half a day at this point.

A few years back I did a four hour window for a year, but didn't see any noticeable results. I much prefer the weekly 24, but may stretch it to 36 this year. Maybe.