RetroTINK 5x-Pro

[mikechi2]

My SNES Jr RGB modded had jailbars which went away under the following conditions:

1. Setting the LPF to 'Medium' or 'Strong'
2. Using the HDRV cables, irrespective of LPF setting. You should leave the LPF to 'Off' though.
3. Turning the LPF on the mod itself, irrespective of LPF setting. As above, you should leave the LPF to 'Off' to avoid excessive ringing.

As an aside, I always chuckled at the term "jailbar". Could be a variety of things from high frequency aliasing (in which case it is a LPF problem) to in-band cross-talk (in which case a mod such as a clock trace needs to be cut).

Wanna send me some HDRV cables?!

Unfortunately I have none to spare, so that's why the LPF option exists I would start by using the latest firmware and kicking it up to 'Strong', which I believe is the same cut-off as the OSSC and FM. The light/medium settings are less aggressive and intended for clean sources like a PS2.

[TooBeaucoup]

I'll play around and see what happens. Like I said, it's quite faint and only on certain colors, so it's certainly not a deal breaker, the picture is still phenomenal especially when optimal SNES mode is used, but now that I've noticed it's there.... DAMMIT! HAHA!!

[Josh128]

Hey Mike, any word on the HD CRT resolutions yet?

[mikechi2]

Been busy making sure the next run goes smoothly and keeping the real job going but I should be able to look at it after the next batch launches in a couple of weeks. In principle it should be a simple modification - just cut the 1080p profile in half. Some interesting things can be done like optimal sampling/auto-phase just like the 1080p stuff but not sure if the difference will be resolvable on a CRT.

[Josh128]

Thanks man, I can appreciate that as I've also been running ragged with real work and side projects, only difference being that none of them are 1/10th as cool as what you're working on.

[kitty666cats]

Mannn, I gotta lug my busted KD-34XBR960 out of my room and get another 16:9 HDCRT - I do have my 34” Sampo monitor that can do 720p and stuff (just use a HDMI to VGA and letterbox geometry with the remote), but there’s something special about some of those dang 16:9 consumer HDCRTs!

[NewSchoolBoxer]

Mannn, I gotta lug my busted KD-34XBR960 out of my room and get another 16:9 HDCRT - I do have my 34” Sampo monitor that can do 720p and stuff (just use a HDMI to VGA and letterbox geometry with the remote), but there’s something special about some of those dang 16:9 consumer HDCRTs!

HDCRTs! I want one for PS2 480p action and they are rare but obtainable if I can pay out the shipping. Maybe I could accept a Plasma instead which is abundantly available locally. Do you think 480p in (non-PVM) CRT form is superior to Plasma or two forms of the same thing? Nice to have large screen televisions that accept all analog inputs + HDMI with minimal pixel delay. HDCRT that works with light gun games, the dream.

[vol.2]

Mannn, I gotta lug my busted KD-34XBR960 out of my room and get another 16:9 HDCRT - I do have my 34” Sampo monitor that can do 720p and stuff (just use a HDMI to VGA and letterbox geometry with the remote), but there’s something special about some of those dang 16:9 consumer HDCRTs!

I don't think the 16:9 models are going to benefit here. The mission was to get a good 480p in 540p 4:3 and a 960i in 1080i 4:3 centered timings preset. The 16:9 models (AFAIK) work in a completely different way. I don't even think you can switch off the DCR on those, and if you did, the geometry would be nuts to correct for. On top of that, they are absolutely terrible and all break. I remember seeing the 16:9 Sony in Circuit City in Union Square progressively get worse and worse geometry over the course of about 2 months as a display unit. They didn't even bother replacing it because I guess no one was buying them.

Avoid at all costs (unless you just want a museum piece).

they are rare but obtainable if I can pay out the shipping

They are heavy as fuck, so you should be able to find one for cheap/free in local paper listings or craigslist. I do think they look pretty good with PS2 480p, and I think the DCR actually can improve the awful wii 480p mode games, but I am looking forward to an easy way to play them with DCR switched off

[Josh128]

Im a huge fan of plasma tech and have 4 in my house-- 1 51" 1080p, 2 51" 768p, and 1 43" 768p. I do really like the look of 480p on them (the 768p sets, not the 1080p set), especially wide screen 480p (which isnt possible on HDCRT without letterboxing), but as good as the motion clarity is on them (far better than LCD), they still lose to HD CRT in 60 fps titles. For stills and 30 fps games, I find the look very, very similar to a nice HD CRT, but the other day when I was testing F-Zero out on my HS420, the difference in motion clarity stood out to me. Motion on the CRT is perfect, and while motion on the plasma is good enough that after a while of not using a CRT you dont even see it, but when you are first transitioning from or go back to CRT, its obvious.

I like the 480p internal scaler on my 768 plasmas a lot, but I recently tried the RT5X-Pro with GC on it just to see if there was any room for improvement, and while most modes looked ~sameish, there was at least one mode that looked sharper to me using the 5X (1080p I think).

So long story short, for pure 480p, HD CRT is the best you can get in a large screen. 1 frame of lag direct connection vs whatever model plasma you go for (my 1080p set and BFXZA 768p sets are locked 36ms and my AFXZA 768p sets are rolling 36-44ms on the TS. I just discovered that the other day and find is fascinating Samsung made changes that affected that between the A and B revisions (2013 vs 2014) of the same model sets. That said, the A models dont feel any different input lag wise than the B series, indeed they feel much faster than their worst case scenario of ~44ms-- nowhere near what the 48ms 480i and 240p modes on the Sony Hi-scan feel. Its strange but they feel like a 32ms /2 frame input lag to me, despite what the TS measures.

Heres some close up shots of GC running in 480p on my original PNF4500 AFXZA set.

https://i.imgur.com/v41jKnl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BEZFyx9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PIS3XLU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hXpBXB2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gfRjp22.jpg

[fernan1234]

I agree absolutely nothing beats HD CRTs for 480p. My idea was to replace one with a multiformat BVM and while PQ factors like colors, purity, alignment, etc., were better as expected, the actual look of 480p scaled to 540p and rendered on the large CRT screen simply looked nicer, and it's just an overall more satisfying experience. I only got rid of my HD CRT because a purity issue in a corner always drove me crazy, and more importantly it was a nightmare to deal with it whenever I had to move. But for anyone who can keep one around comfortably, it's really worth it for 480p and also 720p which looks great displayed at 1080i. It's cool to know the RT5X will make them even more valuable down the road.

[vol.2]

I agree absolutely nothing beats HD CRTs for 480p. My idea was to replace one with a multiformat BVM

I love my broadcast monitors, and my 21" Sony PC monitor, but I really, really like a bigger screen. Not the 40" behemoths, but 27-32" CRTs are the sweet spot for me. That's how I played all the Resident Evil games in the 90's and all the classic PS1 stuff. I geek out on the fancy-ass broadcast stuff too, but I am always drawn back to a 32" screen for a good experience. The HiScan 4:3 sets are 850 line 32" screens, AFAIK, that's the best you can do in 32" with Sony. Maybe there are some rare models I'm unaware of, but I think that it's the best that can be done at that size, or at least one of the few best options.

When I was a kid, we had 19" screen in the basement I could use for my NES, but my parents had 27" Sony in the living room. I used to sneak downstairs in the middle of the night and hookup my NES to that TV just so I would have a better experience (final fantasy 1 comes to mind). That hasn't changed for me; I still want a bigger than 19-20" screen to play old console games on.

[Tempest_2084]

Got a bit of a head scratcher here. I recently had my Colecovision modded for RGB. It uses a standard Genesis 2 style SCART cable now and everything works, but the audio is weak when I'm using the 5X Pro. I hooked it up to a Sync Strike on my RGB monitor and the volume level is normal, it's just when I use it through the 5X that I get diminished sound. I can turn up the volume and hear it, but that introduces distortion, especially on screens that normally have no sound such as the skill select screen before each game. My other systems seem to work just fine so it must be something to do with the RGB mod and the way it interacts with the 5X Pro.

The guy who did my mod mentioned that when he does the audio he wires it to both the mono pin and both stereo pins so no matter what you'll get sound (the CV is normally mono). Could this be confusing the 5X Pro somehow? That's the only thing we can think of.

[mikechi2]

Got a bit of a head scratcher here. I recently had my Colecovision modded for RGB. It uses a standard Genesis 2 style SCART cable now and everything works, but the audio is weak when I'm using the 5X Pro. I hooked it up to a Sync Strike on my RGB monitor and the volume level is normal, it's just when I use it through the 5X that I get diminished sound. I can turn up the volume and hear it, but that introduces distortion, especially on screens that normally have no sound such as the skill select screen before each game. My other systems seem to work just fine so it must be something to do with the RGB mod and the way it interacts with the 5X Pro.

The guy who did my mod mentioned that when he does the audio he wires it to both the mono pin and both stereo pins so no matter what you'll get sound (the CV is normally mono). Could this be confusing the 5X Pro somehow? That's the only thing we can think of.

No idea, the audio inputs are both simple high impedance 22k loads to ground, so not much going on in the 5X side, but that might be a clue for the cable maker.

[Tempest_2084]

Got a bit of a head scratcher here. I recently had my Colecovision modded for RGB. It uses a standard Genesis 2 style SCART cable now and everything works, but the audio is weak when I'm using the 5X Pro. I hooked it up to a Sync Strike on my RGB monitor and the volume level is normal, it's just when I use it through the 5X that I get diminished sound. I can turn up the volume and hear it, but that introduces distortion, especially on screens that normally have no sound such as the skill select screen before each game. My other systems seem to work just fine so it must be something to do with the RGB mod and the way it interacts with the 5X Pro.

The guy who did my mod mentioned that when he does the audio he wires it to both the mono pin and both stereo pins so no matter what you'll get sound (the CV is normally mono). Could this be confusing the 5X Pro somehow? That's the only thing we can think of.

No idea, the audio inputs are both simple high impedance 22k loads to ground, so not much going on in the 5X side, but that might be a clue for the cable maker.

Is this the same as with the 2X? My friend has the Retrotink 2X and he didn't have this issue.

The cable is a standard Insurrection Industries Genesis 2 cable.

[mikechi2]

They are exactly the same.

Got a bit of a head scratcher here. I recently had my Colecovision modded for RGB. It uses a standard Genesis 2 style SCART cable now and everything works, but the audio is weak when I'm using the 5X Pro. I hooked it up to a Sync Strike on my RGB monitor and the volume level is normal, it's just when I use it through the 5X that I get diminished sound. I can turn up the volume and hear it, but that introduces distortion, especially on screens that normally have no sound such as the skill select screen before each game. My other systems seem to work just fine so it must be something to do with the RGB mod and the way it interacts with the 5X Pro.

The guy who did my mod mentioned that when he does the audio he wires it to both the mono pin and both stereo pins so no matter what you'll get sound (the CV is normally mono). Could this be confusing the 5X Pro somehow? That's the only thing we can think of.

No idea, the audio inputs are both simple high impedance 22k loads to ground, so not much going on in the 5X side, but that might be a clue for the cable maker.

Is this the same as with the 2X? My friend has the Retrotink 2X and he didn't have this issue.

The cable is a standard Insurrection Industries Genesis 2 cable.

[darcagn]

I have a question about a little issue I'm having with the RT5X-Pro.
I'm setting up part of my living room with an 8-port Monoprice HDMI switch. I have it in the following configuration:

1 - MiSTer FPGA (using CEC-less HDMI cable)
2 - PS1Digital
3 - N64Digital
4 - DCDigital
5 - GCDual
6 - Nintendo Switch
7 - unused
8 - RetroTINK 5X-Pro

This switch has an auto-switching function that cannot be disabled: if there is no active signal on the current input, it will auto-switch to the lowest available active input, then remain on that input until that input is turned off or manually switched away.
This should work fine since 99% of the time I'm never going to have more than one console turned on so I should never really have to manually select an input.
For some reason, even when unpowered, the #3 N64Digital input on the switch shows illuminated, but the switch never stops on that input for some reason. So that's not a problem.
The RetroTINK 5X-Pro, however, also illuminates, and always captures the switch's input, even when the RetroTINK 5X-Pro is not powered on and even when the USB cable is completely unplugged. So, for example, if I turn on the PS1Digital to play a game, I would expect the HDMI switch to switch to that input, but it never does because it's still seeing an unpowered RetroTINK 5X-Pro as an active input.

Why might this be happening? Is it possibly something that could be fixed in a firmware update (seems unlikely, if it's something that's happening even when unpowered)?
I could work around this and run a separate HDMI cable direct to my receiver or something, but it'd be nice to fix it to work the way it's currently connected.

[NewSchoolBoxer]

I recently had my Colecovision modded for RGB. It uses a standard Genesis 2 style SCART cable now and everything works, but the audio is weak when I'm using the 5X Pro. I hooked it up to a Sync Strike on my RGB monitor and the volume level is normal, it's just when I use it through the 5X that I get diminished sound. I can turn up the volume and hear it, but that introduces distortion, especially on screens that normally have no sound such as the skill select screen before each game.

My other systems seem to work just fine so it must be something to do with the RGB mod and the way it interacts with the 5X Pro.

The guy who did my mod mentioned that when he does the audio he wires it to both the mono pin and both stereo pins so no matter what you'll get sound (the CV is normally mono). Could this be confusing the 5X Pro somehow? That's the only thing we can think of.

Is this the same as with the 2X? My friend has the Retrotink 2X and he didn't have this issue.
The cable is a standard Insurrection Industries Genesis 2 cable.

Look at Tim W's diagram of Genesis 1 and 2 SCART setup in the first two pictures: http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... escart.htm

Let's call the left sound L and the right sound R. Mono sound means only one speaker and Stereo sound means having a left speaker and a right speaker.

Genesis 1 supports Mono sound like Colecovision. Genesis 1 outputs L + R from its one audio pin that goes to both pins 2 and 6.
Genesis 2 supports Mono and Stereo sound. It outputs L + R from its left audio pin that goes to pin 6 and L - R on its right audio pin that goes to pin 2. That is a minus sign. We'll come back to that.

SyncStrike doesn't encode audio. It just sends pin 2 to white jack and pin 6 to red jack.

RetroTINK products probably work like CRTs that are backwards compatible with Mono and Stereo at the same time.
They assume white jack carries L + R. They assume red jack, which is optional, carries L - R.

Either Tim's diagram is wrong for Genesis 1 SCART cable or:
a) SCART TV doesn't support Mono and outputs pin 6 to left speaker and pin 2 to right.
b) SCART TV is super smart and detect pin 2 = pin 6 and goes into Mono mode.
c) SCART TV is Mono with just one speaker like all PVMs.

What CRTs with Mono AND Stereo support do internally is send (white + red) / 2 to the left speaker. Mathematically, this is L + R in Genesis 1 and your case and just L in Genesis 2 case.
They send (white - red) / 2 to the right speaker. Mathematically, this is no audio except the electromagnetic interference that got encoded in normal TV. Just R in Genesis 2 case.
RetroTINK must be supporting Mono AND Stereo and encodes HDMI audio the normal CRT way.

Correct Mono audio wiring would output (1/2) (L + R) to both left and right speakers.
You get low volume, soft and distorted sound because only left speaker has real audio and right has interference that becomes worse when you increase the volume.
Turning off right speaker if possible would essentially fix.

The guy wired audio incorrectly, except you fix by plugging white jack only into TV or TV auto detects Mono for analog sound input. You can't fix this sending everything through SCART where HDMI TV port assumes Stereo.

RetroTINK doing nothing wrong - your mod person has to remove sending any audio to pin 2. Or maybe it could detect for people doing audio wrong and ignore pin 2 if pin 2 = pin 6.

tl;dr This is all SCART's fault.

[ldeveraux]

I have a question about a little issue I'm having with the RT5X-Pro.
I'm setting up part of my living room with an 8-port Monoprice HDMI switch. I have it in the following configuration:

1 - MiSTer FPGA (using CEC-less HDMI cable)
2 - PS1Digital
3 - N64Digital
4 - DCDigital
5 - GCDual
6 - Nintendo Switch
7 - unused
8 - RetroTINK 5X-Pro

This switch has an auto-switching function that cannot be disabled: if there is no active signal on the current input, it will auto-switch to the lowest available active input, then remain on that input until that input is turned off or manually switched away.
This should work fine since 99% of the time I'm never going to have more than one console turned on so I should never really have to manually select an input.
For some reason, even when unpowered, the #3 N64Digital input on the switch shows illuminated, but the switch never stops on that input for some reason. So that's not a problem.
The RetroTINK 5X-Pro, however, also illuminates, and always captures the switch's input, even when the RetroTINK 5X-Pro is not powered on and even when the USB cable is completely unplugged. So, for example, if I turn on the PS1Digital to play a game, I would expect the HDMI switch to switch to that input, but it never does because it's still seeing an unpowered RetroTINK 5X-Pro as an active input.

Why might this be happening? Is it possibly something that could be fixed in a firmware update (seems unlikely, if it's something that's happening even when unpowered)?
I could work around this and run a separate HDMI cable direct to my receiver or something, but it'd be nice to fix it to work the way it's currently connected.

Ask @DirkSwizzler about the harrows of HDMI auto switching...

[Tempest_2084]

I recently had my Colecovision modded for RGB. It uses a standard Genesis 2 style SCART cable now and everything works, but the audio is weak when I'm using the 5X Pro. I hooked it up to a Sync Strike on my RGB monitor and the volume level is normal, it's just when I use it through the 5X that I get diminished sound. I can turn up the volume and hear it, but that introduces distortion, especially on screens that normally have no sound such as the skill select screen before each game.

My other systems seem to work just fine so it must be something to do with the RGB mod and the way it interacts with the 5X Pro.

The guy who did my mod mentioned that when he does the audio he wires it to both the mono pin and both stereo pins so no matter what you'll get sound (the CV is normally mono). Could this be confusing the 5X Pro somehow? That's the only thing we can think of.

Is this the same as with the 2X? My friend has the Retrotink 2X and he didn't have this issue.
The cable is a standard Insurrection Industries Genesis 2 cable.

Look at Tim W's diagram of Genesis 1 and 2 SCART setup in the first two pictures: http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... escart.htm

Let's call the left sound L and the right sound R. Mono sound means only one speaker and Stereo sound means having a left speaker and a right speaker.

Genesis 1 supports Mono sound like Colecovision. Genesis 1 outputs L + R from its one audio pin that goes to both pins 2 and 6.
Genesis 2 supports Mono and Stereo sound. It outputs L + R from its left audio pin that goes to pin 6 and L - R on its right audio pin that goes to pin 2. That is a minus sign. We'll come back to that.

SyncStrike doesn't encode audio. It just sends pin 2 to white jack and pin 6 to red jack.

RetroTINK products probably work like CRTs that are backwards compatible with Mono and Stereo at the same time.
They assume white jack carries L + R. They assume red jack, which is optional, carries L - R.

Either Tim's diagram is wrong for Genesis 1 SCART cable or:
a) SCART TV doesn't support Mono and outputs pin 6 to left speaker and pin 2 to right.
b) SCART TV is super smart and detect pin 2 = pin 6 and goes into Mono mode.
c) SCART TV is Mono with just one speaker like all PVMs.

What CRTs with Mono AND Stereo support do internally is send (white + red) / 2 to the left speaker. Mathematically, this is L + R in Genesis 1 and your case and just L in Genesis 2 case.
They send (white - red) / 2 to the right speaker. Mathematically, this is no audio except the electromagnetic interference that got encoded in normal TV. Just R in Genesis 2 case.
RetroTINK must be supporting Mono AND Stereo and encodes HDMI audio the normal CRT way.

Correct Mono audio wiring would output (1/2) (L + R) to both left and right speakers.
You get low volume, soft and distorted sound because only left speaker has real audio and right has interference that becomes worse when you increase the volume.
Turning off right speaker if possible would essentially fix.

The guy wired audio incorrectly, except you fix by plugging white jack only into TV or TV auto detects Mono for analog sound input. You can't fix this sending everything through SCART where HDMI TV port assumes Stereo.

RetroTINK doing nothing wrong - your mod person has to remove sending any audio to pin 2. Or maybe it could detect for people doing audio wrong and ignore pin 2 if pin 2 = pin 6.

tl;dr This is all SCART's fault.

I don't know, I tried moving the balance on my speakers all the way left or right and didn't notice any change in the sound (other than it only coming out of one speaker).

[Josh128]

New firmware dropped today, V 1.55. The man doesnt stop!!

https://www.retrotink.com/post/retrotin ... re-updates

July 20th, 2021

Version 1.55

Some optimal modes are capable of outputting "444" chroma sampling (thanks to Extrems for the idea):

Note: Generic modes are unaffected either way since they do not contain sharp color transitions.

Added LCD overlay effect to the "Scanline" menu. For this to work:

The H. Sampling must be in an optimal mode.

The output mode must be using an integer vertical scaling factor.

Tuned auto-phase algorithm - initial detection of correct phase will take longer but it should eliminate random hunting.

[incrediblehark]

Nice! I like the idea of the LCD scanline settings. Fingers crossed the next FW update will have 540p support.

Also just got the email about new stock... been working weekend overnights so just need to make sure I'm awake during the ordering window.

Really excited!

[strayan]

New firmware dropped today, V 1.55. The man doesnt stop!!

https://www.retrotink.com/post/retrotin ... re-updates

July 20th, 2021

Version 1.55

Some optimal modes are capable of outputting "444" chroma sampling (thanks to Extrems for the idea):

Note: Generic modes are unaffected either way since they do not contain sharp color transitions.

Added LCD overlay effect to the "Scanline" menu. For this to work:

The H. Sampling must be in an optimal mode.

The output mode must be using an integer vertical scaling factor.

Tuned auto-phase algorithm - initial detection of correct phase will take longer but it should eliminate random hunting.

Extrems + Mike = dream team

[Odolwa]

Does anyone know if the scart coupler made for the OSSC will work for the Retrotink5x?

[parodius]

A SCART coupler is a passive component, it should work with any SCART device if it's properly made, and I doubt any has been "made for OSSC" specifically.
I have a couple myself (the ones from retroupgrades.co.uk) and they sure work with both the OSSC and 5X.

[Odolwa]

A SCART coupler is a passive component, it should work with any SCART device if it's properly made, and I doubt any has been "made for OSSC" specifically.
I have a couple myself (the ones from retroupgrades.co.uk) and they sure work with both the OSSC and 5X.

This coupler was made for the OSSC and it's the one I'm asking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apJbftgeTmg

https://castlemaniagames.com/products/r ... 9_zngec1o_

[vol.2]

This coupler was made for the OSSC and it's the one I'm asking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apJbftgeTmg

https://castlemaniagames.com/products/r ... 9_zngec1o_

From the page you linked:

Typical Uses:

OSSC to gSCART
COMP2RGB connection to SCART2X

So it's not made for OSSC, it's just advertised as being a good solution.

[mikechi2]

I have a version that has 540p, it's the final mode after 480p. Keep in mind it's mostly untested and unsupported, but hopefully it works.

You can project 240p/480i/480p inputs into a 540p output.

I dm'ed it to Vol. 2 and Josh128. If anyone else wants it, you can DM me.

[Odolwa]

I have a version that has 540p, it's the final mode after 480p. Keep in mind it's mostly untested and unsupported, but hopefully it works.

You can project 240p/480i/480p inputs into a 540p output.

I dm'ed it to Vol. 2 and Josh128. If anyone else wants it, you can DM me.

I dm'ed you.

[parodius]

This coupler was made for the OSSC and it's the one I'm asking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apJbftgeTmg
https://castlemaniagames.com/products/r ... 9_zngec1o_

Ok so that's the same that I bought : https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... t-coupler/

Bob does indeed say in his video it's been designed to accomodate an OSSC on top when used on a gScartSw so that there's enough clearance for other SCART cables on either side of it.

But functionally it will work with any SCART capable equipment, as I said.

[Josh128]

Thanks Mike! I plan on testing the 540p FW this afternoon. I have a TS w/ component converter to feed the 5X and several systems ready to go.