What do you think about using an analogue thumbstick?

[dark]

I despised analogue thumbsticks on things like the xbox 360 controller for controlling shmups for the longest time as I felt I couldn't get the same precision as with a d-pad and therefore wouldn't survive as long. However, lately using a thumbstick has grown on me and I find it easier to use to pull of curvy bullet evasion maneuvers that I otherwise wouldn't do as well with the dpad. It kinda feels like writing in cursive, or doing the graffiti motions for Jet Set Radio on the dreamcast.

After using it more and more I know I've gotten better with pulling of precise movement with it (though still not to the level of a dpad or computer keyboard). I think I'm at the point now where I enjoy using the thumbstick for playing through the main part of a level, and when it comes time to face a boss, its time to switch to the dpad.

Anyone use an analogue thumbstick regularly for playing shmups, or do you all use digital controls like d-pads, keyboards and arcade sticks?

[MathU]

Obviously games with digital movement should use digital inputs and games with analog movement should use analog inputs. But when I have to use an analog stick I strongly prefer Nintendo's old style of sticks with octagonal gates that let you feel precisely when you're tilting in one of the eight cardinal and ordinal directions. There's still the stick deadzone with no tactile feedback to contend with, but at least you're not fumbling about guessing whether or not you're pressing in one of those directions.

[Jonpachi]

Only if I'm absolutely forced to. Pawarumi was the last game I played that made me use analogue, and, while I did get used to it, I was glad to finally nab the 1CC and be done with it so I could go back to normal.

[bigbadboaz]

I think they're great for the genres they were pioneered for. For anything intended to be digital - no way. I'm used to the "right" way and I'm also a purist.

That said, I can understand why someone who grew up in the 3D era would want to just "stick" with what they're used to and play everything with the analog. Can't say I understand how that would in any way feel good for our genre, but I'm not gonna cast elitist judgment on how others enjoy their video games.

[Rastan78]

I think they're not quite as bad as people make them out to be for shmups, but there are obvious drawbacks. The worst part for me is trying to do small microtap style movements. Also like Mathu pointed out it's hard to do accurate diagonals with a round gate.

Theres something I do like about the fluid rolling movement of the thumbstick itself. If you could combine the analogue style thumbstick with internals that included 8 way digital microswitches with a square gate, that's something I'd want to try. Maybe make the return to neutral a bit snappier as well. Closest thing I can think of to this would be the Neo Geo CD or Neo Geo Pocket color thumbsticks.

Hori did recently do a new "Octa" version of the fighting commander that looks like it has a gate on the analogue stick. Oddly they decided to release only on XBox first. Weird since you'd think fighting game or 2D focused players are gonna be more on PS4 and Switch. It would also be great for something like the Switch port of Mario 64 since this game was designed for an 8 way gate on the thumbstick.

[el_rika]

Completely useless for micro dodging.

[blazinglazers69]

I don't think they're practical for most people, but there aren't really laws about these things--only dogma. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gus learn to counterbreak MushiFutari on the hardest difficulty using the notoriously crappy xbox 360 Dpad?

If you put your mind to it, I guess you can do anything? Even if it's silly.

[Gamer707b]

I think the only shooter I've played with the thumb stick was Gradius 5 and it felt great. Everything else I do is either on a d-pad or stick.

[el_rika]

I don't think they're practical for most people, but there aren't really laws about these things--only dogma. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Gus learn to counterbreak MushiFutari on the hardest difficulty using the notoriously crappy xbox 360 Dpad?

If you put your mind to it, I guess you can do anything? Even if it's silly.

Dpad is another story completely, even the crappy 360 one (which i personally find much more usable than the PS style ones).

[chempop]

One of the top scoring (Gamecube) Ikaruga players used the analogue stick

[heli]

It can add precise movement when not totally pushed.
The downside is these things break as first, so you need to be able to adjust dead-space or whatever you call it in the center for older joysticks.

[FRO]

Completely useless for micro dodging.

This is kind of where I'm at now. I used to not use them to play shmups, because it just felt too imprecise. But the more I dig into the genre, the more I realize that the fine movement offered by an analog stick isn't how most of these games are designed, so unless you have developed a lot of accuracy with using an analog stick, digital control is just a much better option. Generally speaking, I would only use analog if it was my only option, or if a game was designed specifically to leverage it somehow.

[dark]

I totally use the thumbstick for micro dodges and fine adjustments. I'm not quite as good with it as with the d-pad but it seems to be something I can work up and get better at. I mostly played shmups with dpads and keyboards for many years, and initially, when playing with an arcade stick, I found that to be incredibly awkward and ill suited for fine movements (but you get used to it).

I played a ton of Monkey Ball back in the day and that basically trained me to do slight twitchy movements with thumbsticks. That muscle memory has probably helped make thumbsticks more approachable for control for shmups for me.

[Ixmucane2]

Completely useless for micro dodging.

On the other hand, a game can be designed around "micro aiming", which any input device that reports more than 8 directions can bring far beyond the limits of what is possible with a traditional joystick.
There are also two thumbsticks in an ordinary gamepad, allowing independent control of two directions (e.g. thrust or velocity for movement and facing for aiming).

[Jasonbartfast]

I'm of two minds. On the one hand, I 1cc'd ZeroRanger using the analog stick on an xbox one controller. Since then I've been playing Eschatos with an arcade stick (sanwa jlf), and I can see advantages to both. It is easier to tap dodge on the arcade stick, but I sometimes miss the fluidity of the analog stick. I think it likely you can get used to most input methods so long as they're not super loose or laggy.

Fighting game players used to swear by arcade sticks, but then the genre got popular again and people started winning tournaments on pads.

[Jeneki]

I use analog for dual stick games, because I can't be bothered to make myself a dual arcade stick setup. But lots of dual stick games are made with analog in mind these days.

[el_rika]

I'm of two minds. On the one hand, I 1cc'd ZeroRanger using the analog stick on an xbox one controller. Since then I've been playing Eschatos with an arcade stick (sanwa jlf), and I can see advantages to both. It is easier to tap dodge on the arcade stick, but I sometimes miss the fluidity of the analog stick. I think it likely you can get used to most input methods so long as they're not super loose or laggy.

Fighting game players used to swear by arcade sticks, but then the genre got popular again and people started winning tournaments on pads.

Not using analogue though.

[Jasonbartfast]

I'm of two minds. On the one hand, I 1cc'd ZeroRanger using the analog stick on an xbox one controller. Since then I've been playing Eschatos with an arcade stick (sanwa jlf), and I can see advantages to both. It is easier to tap dodge on the arcade stick, but I sometimes miss the fluidity of the analog stick. I think it likely you can get used to most input methods so long as they're not super loose or laggy.

Fighting game players used to swear by arcade sticks, but then the genre got popular again and people started winning tournaments on pads.

Not using analogue though.

Yes, true, they still retained the digital input.

[davyK]

No, No, No.

[Flashman]

It's fine for modern 3d stuff which is what they were intended, but it's usually my last resort for anything retro - you just loose too much accuracy in SHMUPS when dodging - If I'm forced to use a controller to play them, I tend to use the d-pad if its available.

I will say though I was playing a lot of Xeno Crisis a month ago, I really didn't gel with the game when I purchased it on the Mega Drive during all the hype - the much ballyhooed control scheme was terrible if you ask me. I picked it up on PS4 and I have to say with the twin sticks its like playing a different game, and much enhanced my experience.

[davyK]

If the game is designed for analogue sticks then fine. Super Monkey Ball is a prime example of that.

The GC's left stick with the notches for locking is - sort of - OK for games like Metal Slug. That is what saves MS Anthology on Wii from being totally unplayable due to the absence of classic control support and the retarded insistence of forcing unnecessary waggle when using the wiimote or nunchuck. And - yes - even with the GC pad that damn game doesn't work with its dpad!!!!!

But for anything 2D requiring small movements you have to go with digital.

Pacman CE on 360 plays better with the analogue stick than with the dpad though.

[Alpolio]

I find it hard to do precision movements on a PS4, XB1, or the Switch with a d-pad. They're not designed like the classic SNES d-pad that they're supposed to be trying to copy. So when there's no other options present, I usually use the analogue stick.

But what I recommend is a fighting stick. My 8BitDo Arcade Stick helps a lot with shmup controls. It's so good that I buy all of my shmups/run-n-guns/platformers/fighters/bla-bla-bla... on my Switch just so I can use it.

[Wittischism]

I
Pacman CE on 360 plays better with the analogue stick than with the dpad though.

Thought I was crazy for thinking this. I definitely agree.

[banjoted]

I've found myself increasingly using them for shmups. Wasn't really a conscious thing and I hadn't thought about it until now. I keep trying to get used to a dedicated stick (I even had a custom one built for me) but convenience drives me back to the pad every time...

[Steven]

I play Thunder Force V with the Saturn's Multi Controller and use the analog stick, but that's it.

[Shatterhand]

Analog thumbstick is for games that need analog input.

Shmups? Dpad or arcade stick. 8 directions, constant speed. Always, no question about it.

-

I don't own a switch, but I've played with it a couple of times at friends' . How anyone can play anything that require precision with those awful sticks is beyond my understanding. I tried playing Mortal Kombat 11 on that thing and its hideous. I'd rather play with those buttons replacing a d-pad at any time. They were still awfull too, but waaaaaaaaaaay better than using those horrible sticks. Cant' fathom someone playing a shmup with those things.

[SPM]

How anyone can play anything that require precision with those awful sticks is beyond my understanding

That's what I use 95% of my shmups time! People adapt to all sorts of crap I guess
I even use them for analog precision, which is almost even worse given their short travel distance (I'm talking about Trials Rising here if any of you play it... Micro throttle adjustments with the right stick all the way).

Rest of the time: 8bitdo Arcade Stick. Loving it more and more since I installed Seitmitsu parts