bigbadboaz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:23 am
I don't think the levered microswitches have the effect you think. The backside of the lever is in direct contact with the switch actuator; there is no "lag" between when the joystick actuator contacts the microswitch lever and when the switch actuation begins.
I understand this. It's the geometry of where the actuator is on the lever that changes things. Checking further, the switch used on the LS-33, LS-55, LS--56, LS-58 has a lever that does not extend past the tab on the microswitch, so with those sticks, yes, the lever doesn't really do anything different than if it wasn't there.
OTOH, the switch used on the LS-32 and LS-40, listed as a 2017 version where I found the info so I don't know if there's a different version--that switch has a lever that extends past the switch tab, with the tab about half way between the pivot and the end of the lever and the switches are positioned on the circuit board accordingly further out where if the levers were not there, the switches would not engage. With the actuator engaging near the end of that lever, that lever most certainly changes things. There's no question about that unless Seimitu has changed the laws of physics. In this case, if the distance the switch tab takes from first contact to where it actually engages is 1mm, then the distance the actuator has to travel to engage is 2mm if the switch tab is exactly in the center of the lever, and that is also going to change how the click on the switch feels.
The distance you have to move the joystick can be the same, more, or less compared to a JLF depending on how much throw there is before any engagement on the Sanwa in comparison, but the feel is certainly going to be different, and that was my point. Since the Seimitsu sticks appear to be constructed where the actuator is in contact with the levers at rest, those sticks are going to have a less "loose" feel than the JLF, and that is exactly what I do
not want.
bigbadboaz wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:23 amSubjectively, I don't really think that the feel of switch engagement changes much either. I use LS-32, 40, and 56 and engagement is crisp, clean, and very similar to what I feel with a JLF. Keep in mind that if you're thinking the leverage of, well, a
lever would lead to "softness" in engagement, differences in the underlying switch could easily counter/negate that. And Seimitsu DO use different switches than Sanwa.
Yes, if the switches are different then that's a factor as well. However, since every stick I have used with levers has a commanilty to its feel that I do not like, I still suspect that has something to do with it; of course I can be wrong. You not feeling that it is much different than a JLF could be the case for me, or not, because of how different aspects of stick feel are more or less significant to different people depending on what they're looking for. From all of your posts in this thread as well as what I'm gathering from Bassa-Bassa, you are both looking for almost the exact opposite things to what I personally want in a stick. It's perhaps relevant to keep in mind I liked the old long-discontinued Happ Ultimate joysticks, and the only reason I'm not still using them is that mine are worn out, and I do want something that has a more precise feel while still keeping some degree of what I feel is the essence of that stick's feel.
I think I've found my best solution (JLF with bat top and Sanwa's circle gate) so this isn't about me, but I wanted to state my preferences so that it's understood how my own biases likely affect what I say about any stick. While I'd be interested in trying a Seimitsu, just to see how I feel about it, I thnk chances are good it isn't what I want, and I've already wasted quite a bit of $$ in unsuccessful experiments already.
I only brought all this up as some background in what my own biases are so that my suggestions can be taken with the appropriate level of distrust.
Bassa-Bassa wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 5:47 pm
I have quite a bit of experience with the AES stick, the HSS-0130, the non-Seimitsu single-player Virtua Stick, and the original Virtua Stick (grey and blue), among others. I believe all of those have levered switches. And it's night-and-day if the stick is an actual Seimitsu or a cheap clone.
The AES one is likely the most precise, responsive stick I've ever played with, and never knew then if it was a Seimitsu or if the switches had levers, nor cared. It's too bad I hated almost everything else of it.
So it is indeed a personal matter. I don't really know which one I like better these days - the modded JLF or the LS-32. Both have downsides and both have this irritating "slop"/looseness just by barely touching them, and I'm sure my STG plays would be better without any of these.
Haha, yeah, that AES stick was, to my taste, probably the worst thing I've ever used, so keep that in mind for anything I say. I coudln't even use it effectively, and quickly built my own stick so I could actually play the console.
I'm curious about one point, by gray and blue Virtua Stick do you mean this one?
https://segaretro.org/File:Saturn_HSS-0104.jpg
If so, I had no idea there was a version of that with microswitches just as there was with the Japan version of the Sega Megadrive stick. The US black version of the above used the rubber dome layout where it's essentially just like a giant d-pad.