Espgaluda or Mushihimesama?

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Sat May 27, 2006 7:48 pm

Someone needs to sticky the thread were Arika was asked to do Mushi, but they declined.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat May 27, 2006 9:07 pm

that Cave themselves, not Taito, ported Mushi and Ibara after Arika left.

There never really was an "announcement". Mihara very vaugely stated that Cave would be the best person to do ports of their own game. Everyone took that as him saying they were doing it this time around. Eventually, after the game was released, it showed up on Cave's consumer game page. Funny how wrong Mihara was.

Apparently in his blog he talks about how Arika turned them down for Mushi, but I don't recall the entry.

Your hate on Taito is unfounded.

Not necessarily. If someone publishes a turd that someone else developed, the publisher is still part of the guilty party. They forked up the money, and their ass is on the line financially. If they're dumb enough not to demand a good product, it's their own loss.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sat May 27, 2006 9:19 pm

GaijinPunch wrote: What you get w/ Mush
3: Arrange mode (which sucks)

Personally speaking I quite like Mushi's Arrange Mode. No, it's not as cool as other titles Arrange modes (ie: it's not a whole new/different game). But it's still fun.

Having said that, I personally find ESP Galuda the superior title. Sounds like most here feel the same.

And as for the whole "which game was released on which arcade system"... C'Mon folks! System16 is there, and free! Use it!

http://www.system16.com/

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat May 27, 2006 10:00 pm

And as for the whole "which game was released on which arcade system"... C'Mon folks! System16 is there, and free! Use it!

Not to mention recent Cave games have only been on two different pieces of hardware:

DOJ, Ketsui, Galuda: PGM
Mushi, Ibara, Galuda 2, Mushihime-tama, and Pink Sweets: SH3

roker · Post by **roker** » Sat May 27, 2006 11:07 pm

elvis wrote: And as for the whole "which game was released on which arcade system"... C'Mon folks! System16 is there, and free! Use it!

I used it first

I should have taken it as the bible

I'll never doubt elvis or system16 again

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sun May 28, 2006 7:22 am

roker wrote:I'll never doubt elvis or system16 again

Good lad. Never doubt the brilliant Sixtoes and his infinite reaching knowledge!

Trevor spencer · Post by **Trevor spencer** » Sun May 28, 2006 7:38 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
And as for the whole "which game was released on which arcade system"... C'Mon folks! System16 is there, and free! Use it!

Mushi, Ibara, Galuda 2, Mushihime-tama, and Pink Sweets: SH3

btw does anyone know what the batterys is used for (score maybe?)

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun May 28, 2006 8:55 am

Trevor spencer wrote:btw does anyone know what the batterys is used for (score maybe?)

I think if you look in the hardware section, there was mention of it somewhere in there. One would assume scores, but I think somebody has disproven that.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sun May 28, 2006 9:03 am

Usually onboard batteries are there to save the system setup, not the scores.

Back in the "old days" (and sometimes these days too) all functions on the board (difficulty, credits per coin, etc) were calculated via dipswitches. Recently the trend is to configure this infromation via a software test screen and store the values in a battery backup. Also, cost-keeping information is often saved too (for accounting purposes for arcade owner/operators)

Score saves are highly unusual. Very few boards do this across any genre.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun May 28, 2006 9:29 am

But SH3 definitely does save scores. The question is what part of the board utlizes it. I think the thread where it was covered was actually someone having problems w/ an Ibara board saving scores.

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Sun May 28, 2006 12:44 pm

Ok...rescuing this topic from the depths of gaming analness....

I can't wait for this game's Taito's Best rerelease. I played it over a friends house but didn't have the funds to purchase it then. I don't understand why people think this game is imperfect or whatever. I found it to be pretty goddamned fun. A lil' different than what I was used to at that time(DoDonpachi, Ibara) but a good game nonetheless. Too bad its a bitch to find used. When I finally got the cash for it, it was sold out at Playasia and I don't trust Yesasia. Haven't seen many of 'em on Ebay either....

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sun May 28, 2006 5:56 pm

Never_Scurred wrote:When I finally got the cash for it, it was sold out at Playasia and I don't trust Yesasia. Haven't seen many of 'em on Ebay either....

Not to pester or anything, but quite a few around here (myself included) have bought from YesAsia without incident, so you might want to reconsider buying from them in the future, though at this point it is probably best just to wait for the "best" version of Mushi. If it matters, though, YesAsia is usually a bit cheaper than most other sites.

Never_Scurred · Post by **Never_Scurred** » Sun May 28, 2006 6:16 pm

BulletMagnet wrote:
Never_Scurred wrote:When I finally got the cash for it, it was sold out at Playasia and I don't trust Yesasia. Haven't seen many of 'em on Ebay either....
Not to pester or anything, but quite a few around here (myself included) have bought from YesAsia without incident, so you might want to reconsider buying from them in the future, though at this point it is probably best just to wait for the "best" version of Mushi. If it matters, though, YesAsia is usually a bit cheaper than most other sites.

I hear what you're saying and YesAsia is cheaper(by a few bucks) but the only way i'd order from them again was if I got a plane ticket to their supply house to pick it up personally. I lost time and money dealing with them so its pretty hard for me to think they've changed their business practices. PlayAsia actually makes sure you know whats going on with your shipment the moment you buy(provided you're smart enough to pick Fedex or UPS). I look at like this i'd rather pay a bit more to know i'm gonna get my stuff than to hafta waste 3 months of my life wondering when some ******* is gonna get around to getting my stuff in the mail.

Didn't mean to derail the thread further.....I can't wait to get my hands on Mushi(for cheap!)

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sun May 28, 2006 6:55 pm

Never_Scurred wrote:Ok...rescuing this topic from the depths of gaming analness....

I don't understand why people think this game is imperfect or whatever.

Because some people like their arcade ports to be... well... arcade perfect. Apologies if that makes us "anal".

Nobody argued the game wasn't fun. Merely that the porting effort was pretty poor, and could have been improved exponentially with minor cost/effort.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:34 am

Okay, I've flip-flopped on this one. After playing both quite a lot (and 1CCing both) I now feel Mushi is a better game than Galuda and I'd rather be trapped on a desert island with the Mushi port than with the Galuda port. As a side note, I found Mushi Original and Maniac modes to both be easier to 1CC than Espgaluda (Maniac is more fun to play for score too, imho). And with Yesasia now offering the 'best' re-release preorder for $25 w/ free worldwide shipping, you'd be looney toons to pass it up.

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:04 am

Neither, buy Dragon Blaze.

Or actually play Ibara.

Post by **system11** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:57 am

I've had a hard time really settling on my favourite of the two ever since Mushi came out. For a while, it was Esp, then Mushi, then Esp, then Mushi.

Espgaluda is a better port. It does what it wanted to very very well, both in gameplay and quality of transfer to the PS2. However, Mushi offers much longer replay value due to the different modes, and the music is some of the best stuff in a shooter for years.

tekneekz · Post by **tekneekz** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:05 am

mushi all the way

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:29 am

I've given Mushi so many chances but the thing just fights me to like it. Asymmetrical player sprite, boring scoring system, lame bullet patterns. I like the music and enemy/backdrop art though.

ESPGaluda is pretty much my favorite shmup ever, so yeah I like that better. The scoring system is fun as hell, doesn't really rely on memorization unless you are going for a 35mil+ all clear score. You can get pretty far in scoring just on instinct and a basic 'shoot small ships, use kakusei on big ships' method. Did I mention it's fun as hell? ESPG has the juice, in the form of gold. Wonderful, juicy, glittering gold. The bullet patterns aren't too special, but they are at least fun to dodge, especially stage4/5 patterns.

Ibara and DoDonpachi Daioujou are also better choices than Mushi imo.

Kamakazie · Post by **Kamakazie** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:12 am

My vote goes for ESPGaluda. The scoring is a bit more complex and I prefer the bullet patterns.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:31 am

Espgaluda never clicked with me, but Mushihimesama (in all its modes) has been completely satisfying since the day I first picked it up, so my personal vote goes to it.

Post by **Icarus** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:10 am

Espgaluda, Dodonpachi Daioujou and Ibara > Mushi

Espgaluda's system is beginner friendly - a novice can ALL the game using the Kakusei to stay alive - while the game rewards you as you push for a higher score. Difficulty also increases proportional to the effort put into maximising score.

Daioujou and Ibara are both extremely difficult games with a huge amount of depth and a long lasting challenge. Daioujou is the high point of the Donpachi series and exudes class. It'll also pound your ass into the ground if you don;'t come with your game head on. Same for Ibara, as it features a highly techical Raizing-style of gameplay that demands dedication.

Mushi, for all it's charms, has never clicked with me in the gameplay department, despite all the time I've given it since its arcade release. I don't find the system interesting enough to manipulate/exploit.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:28 am

All you guys saying mushi's scoring system is 'boring', or not 'deep/interesting enough' are either 1)only talking about original mode, or 2)simply do not understand the scoring system in Maniac and Ultra modes. Maniac/Ultra mode is certainly cave's most dexterous scoring system to date, requiring extreme precision in multi-speed/multi-button tapping paired with ddp-esque enemy pattern memorization in order to skyrocket and maintain the multiplier. I also think it's their most innovative scoring system. Once you truly learn how it works and you get used to it, you realize its genius (as well as how fun and addictive it is).

You also realise how sore it can make your hands-- the game really gives you a physical workout sometimes!

Of course, you can get around this somewhat by using the rapid fire button settings (however, even with this you'll have to do a fair amount of manual multi-speed tapping in order to get a good score).

The comment about lame bullet patterns is just beyond me. Mushi has some of the most beautiful bullet patterns ever (especially in ultra mode). Again, maybe this is only in reference to Original mode? Mushi has three different modes which use 2 different scoring systems, you know. Four modes if you count the PS2 arrange mode (which uses a 3rd scoring system).

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:39 am

twe wrote:Maniac/Ultra mode is certainly cave's most dexterous scoring system to date, requiring extreme precision in multi-speed/multi-button tapping paired with ddp-esque enemy pattern memorization in order to skyrocket and maintain the multiplier. I also think it's their most innovative scoring system. Once you truly learn how it works and you get used to it, you realize its genius (as well as how fun and addictive it is).

I keep getting the feeling it wasn't originally designed to be that way, but rather some kind of glitch that players discovered...

At any rate, I haven't put very much time into Mushi and I don't understand the scoring mechanic at all.

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:47 am

I understand it and I still think it's a horrible game.

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:54 am

iatneH wrote:At any rate, I haven't put very much time into Mushi and I don't understand the scoring mechanic at all.

You shoot the enemies and the number goes up. If you memorize where all the enemies are then you can make the number go up better. Then if you mamorize where all the enemies are and hit the buttons funny you can make the number go up really good.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:56 am

Sounds like every Cave game actually.

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:11 am

Espgaluda all the way. Mushi, eventually. I personally like Espgaluda more because of its versatile, more allowing scoring system. Mushi is a bit more like Dodonpachi, except a little less brutal if your combo slows down.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:21 pm

iatneH wrote:I keep getting the feeling it wasn't originally designed to be that way, but rather some kind of glitch that players discovered...

No, it was designed this way, it's not a 'glitch'.

I'll try to write a stage-by-stage Mushi guide soon.

cigsthecat wrote:I understand it and I still think it's a horrible game.

Okay, if you understand it then you should have no problem answering these simple questions: what does slow A tapping do, and when should you do it? When and why should you do slow C tapping, mid-fast C tapping, and fast C tapping? If you can't answer those questions, it's like saying you understand ESPgaluda's system but can't answer when, how or why to use the kakusei.

I like ibara, but mushi is a better designed, more balanced game (imo of course).

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:33 pm

twe wrote:
Okay, if you understand it then you should have no problem answering these simple questions: what does slow A tapping do, and when should you do it? When and why should you do slow C tapping, mid-fast C tapping, and fast C tapping? If you can't answer those questions, it's like saying you understand ESPgaluda's system but can't answer when, how or why to use the kakusei.

I don't need to prove myself to you, and I don't feel like getting into a big nerd fight about this. I had a little over 100 million in Maniac after about 20 days of play before I decided it wasn't for me and stopped playing.

I like ibara, but mushi is a better designed, more balanced game (imo of course).

lol