How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

[sunnshine]

Xbox 360? Just get a cheap one (I got one for $20) and hack it to play everything for free. The companies aren't getting a penny if you pay $$$ for used games anyway, so why do it?

This is what I did. I had a Slim 250GB and had it modded for Marvel vs Capcom 2 and ended up down the 360 Cave shmups/NAOMI ports rabbit hole and a lot of the stuff that is still, er, available has been delisted now. It's worth doing if you can either find a good modded console or someone who can do a good job on it (or DIY?). Mine's fairly reliable, it usually boots in 20s or so but sometimes it takes a few goes to boot. Cheaper than a Japanese 360 and a couple of games!

[Haddock]

Oh boy these shmups are definitely a rabbit hole once you learn more about the ports and such..

So I just found out there are two ports of DOJ, and they are technically not even the same game?! (white label on PS2 and black label on the 360). At least for the Saturn era it's simple generally: the ports on that system are quite good (except dodonpachi I hear). But the more modern Cave shmups have had a lot of issues getting ported probably, I guess it's also because the games themselves are more complex to run properly.

Well whatever, I will stick to the Saturn/DC/PS4 for now. There's more than enough games on there to keep me entertained for..well years and years. Here's hoping that M2 team ports more Cave games at some point! Surely it can be profitable considering their brand name?

[davyK]

In any case, with those three games (two of them considered top 5 consistently by this forum) it's more than enough to keep me busy for years lol. The xbox360 can wait, the game I most want to play from the late cave catalogue is Mushihimesama Futari, but buying a japanese 360 for one game is.. not worth it (for me).

Futari platinum edition is region free. I play it on my PAL 360. I have a slim 360 dedicated for playing shmups. I use the slim because I can get an RGB SCART cable for it so I can use my CRT. So if you can get a cheap slim then you will be covered!

I use my E series 360 for other gaming.

[Haddock]

In any case, with those three games (two of them considered top 5 consistently by this forum) it's more than enough to keep me busy for years lol. The xbox360 can wait, the game I most want to play from the late cave catalogue is Mushihimesama Futari, but buying a japanese 360 for one game is.. not worth it (for me).

Futari platinum edition is region free. I play it on my PAL 360. I have a slim 360 dedicated for playing shmups. I use the slim because I can get an RGB SCART cable for it so I can use my CRT. So if you can get a cheap slim then you will be covered!

I use my E series 360 for other gaming.

Oh! Are all the cave releases region free? That would be amazing because getting a Japanese 360 is a hassle (with the import taxes and all). That changes everything, getting a cheap 360 within the country is easy!

[Sengoku Strider]

I just put in an order for Ketsui and Esp.Ra.De on PS4! I have never heard of Esp.Ra.De to be quite honest but I was looking at some reviews and it looks interesting, early cave had some interesting experimental games it seems!

Esp.Ra.De kind of got sidelined for a long time. The arcade version had some elements that needed reworking, this is the first time anyone's brought it home.

I saw Battle Garegga is also on PS4, is that considered a better port than the Saturn version? In any case it's considerably cheaper so if it isn't bad I will probably just pick that one up, just a shame I wouldn't be able to play it on my CRT

Although Garegga will have to wait a bit, that game seems to have an insane score system that (to me right now) makes zero sense. It's almost as if half of the scoring wasn't intended by developers and was discovered by players! Very esoteric, for the lack of a better term.

AFAIK it's the best version of Garegga. While it's a fun & mechanically solid game in its own right, you're correct in that some of the elements that make people praise it so highly are fairly esoteric. It's more a game to dive into when you are deep in the genre and are looking for a different kind of challenge.

So I just found out there are two ports of DOJ, and they are technically not even the same game?! (white label on PS2 and black label on the 360).

Black label was mostly just an easier arcade revision with some bug fixes.

Here's hoping that M2 team ports more Cave games at some point! Surely it can be profitable considering their brand name?

It's probably a decent bet, but M2 are fairly busy, they're in pretty high demand. They were behind the software side of a number of the recent retro mini consoles, the Sega AGES series, and a bunch of other projects. The ShotTriggers series is mostly something they do for fun on the side.

[Special World]

Only recently heard people hating on the Ketsui 360 port—not sure if those people have played it, honestly. It’s a great port. Deathtiny is also a great port.

Ketsui 360: runs slightly fast, but has much better visual options. I prefer to play vanilla ketsui on this port.
Deathtiny: slightly more accurate, Deathtiny is a more sensible arrange than 360’s X mode imo

If I had to keep one it would be the 360 port. I just think the main game is better presented. I know that’s heresy to M2 heads (i love m2) and accuracy purists, but I think Deathtiny looks really hideously grainy and over-sharp. To me it’s like the visual equivalent of listening to a really raw black metal album.

However, M2 did knock it out of the park with options and training and the Deathtiny arrange. I think either way you play this game is good.

[davyK]

In any case, with those three games (two of them considered top 5 consistently by this forum) it's more than enough to keep me busy for years lol. The xbox360 can wait, the game I most want to play from the late cave catalogue is Mushihimesama Futari, but buying a japanese 360 for one game is.. not worth it (for me).

Futari platinum edition is region free. I play it on my PAL 360. I have a slim 360 dedicated for playing shmups. I use the slim because I can get an RGB SCART cable for it so I can use my CRT. So if you can get a cheap slim then you will be covered!

I use my E series 360 for other gaming.

Oh! Are all the cave releases region free? That would be amazing because getting a Japanese 360 is a hassle (with the import taxes and all). That changes everything, getting a cheap 360 within the country is easy!

Not all are sadly..

Futari, Espgaluda II, SDOJ and MuchiMuchi Pork + Pink Sweets are all region free.
PAL DFK (called DDP Resurrection) runs on US machines. It doesn't have the BL Arrange "KetsuiPachi" mode but it has all the other modes.
Deathsmiles PAL might run on US too - but you would need to check that.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I said that Ketsui Extra lacks a 240p mode due to the console's limitations (and then there's the speed differences, but they're not huge, as mentioned), but I didn't want to imply it's a bad port, in case! I still have it. The game was quite lax on the slowdown thing originally, so it was easier than usual to get it right. It's quite awesome that 5PB cooked it so well internally after the DOJ fiasco, anyway. But for anyone owning a good old CRT, Groovymame is the way to go, specially for a game like this, without emulation flaws. You'll thank me later!

[banjoted]

It depends on who responds to this.

Exactly this. To most people, they're absolutely fine. But the die-hards on these boards will likely think of them as worse than death itself.

[BulletMagnet]

Futari, Espgaluda II, SDOJ and MuchiMuchi Pork + Pink Sweets are all region free.

If memory serves Galuda II's limited edition is region locked but the "standard" edition is region free; I think that's the only release with that kind of weirdness afoot.

So I just found out there are two ports of DOJ, and they are technically not even the same game?! (white label on PS2 and black label on the 360).

The 360 port contains both "white" and "black" labels, plus an exclusive mode; the PS2 has just "white", plus its own exclusive boss rush mode. which remained unbeaten for I forget how many years.

Oh boy these shmups are definitely a rabbit hole once you learn more about the ports and such..

An early contender for Understatement of the Year.

[Haddock]

An early contender for Understatement of the Year.

And here I thought the fighting game community was obsessed with frames and input/screen lag! You lot are even more intense

Well it's only natural really. Once you get to a certain level of skill you will just notice all kinds of details others will not. I had the same experience with fighting games, 1 frame links become a real pain when introduced to certain screens and certain console ports

[gray117]

doj and ketsui are the 2 best shmups on the 360 imho. (Full disclosure; doj being my favourite shmup on anything.)

Patched doj initial load is still a bit odd; but perfectly ignoreable and it plays fine after loading into game, and has some interesting extras.
Ketsui is a nicer done port, and is great.

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I used to play these more often than the pcbs just out of convenience.

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These days emulation might be even more convenient, but honestly depends if you want to mess with it.

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If hacked pgms are still available this is the 'best' way to go if you've got all the related kit, and can still find them.

[Some-Mist]

The 360 port contains both "white" and "black" labels, plus an exclusive mode; the PS2 has just "white", plus its own exclusive boss rush mode. which remained unbeaten for I forget how many years.

that MON video is still up on youtube. I think he was the first person to beat it in 10 years
https://youtu.be/A8JBDyFC9BE