How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

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Haddock
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How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Haddock »

So as a new shmup enthousiast Ive been looking into modern shmups (Ive only played older titles so far from the 90’s).

Naturally I found myself flocking to a Japanese xbox360 because well, the amount of Cave games available on there is unmatched and it doesn’t seem like they’ll release all on PS4 anytime soon. Specifically I am very interested in DOJ and Ketsui, they just look and seem like my kind of bag both aesthetically aswell as how they play (ofcourse I am aware of the big differences in their scoring systems).

Much to my surprise I found out that DOJ is a bad port. But how bad are we talking? I know about the loading times but with the patch I could live with that. Is the actual gameplay itself bad (compared to the PS2 version)? I don’t own a Japanese PS2 so I don’t want to buy one just for one game specifically, I’m not that hardcore :)

As far as Ketsui is concerned I realize there is a PS4 port that is quite well received, but I would like to own the games as much on 1 platform if possible so I would prefer the 360 version if that port is just as good (again, the main game, I realize the PS4 port has new modes but I don’t care about those so much)..

Its a little daunting to be new to (modern) shmups because there are so many ports and considerations tone made :( Help a noob out!
Last edited by Haddock on Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by davyK »

It depends on who responds to this.

First things first. 360 ports of Cave games are marvellous video games. Entertaining. They play well. They aren't cheap though!!!

Some folk here , particularly those who are very skilled, are very critical of ports re their accuracy. Some not so much. If you are unlikely to either get to play the games in an arcade cabinet with the original arcade board, or get into world record chasing, then issues with a port aren't all that significant. High skill players can detect lag in 360 ports if it is higher than in the arcade games too. It is worth pointing out that this is a rabbit hole. A modern TV will add lag. As will a wireless controller. It all depends on how sensitive you are. I am not consciously aware of it but I did notice an improvement in scores when I put my LCD TV into game mode which reduces lag created by the TV. Some players use a CRT because of display lag issues. I myself use a CRT but that is for aesthetic reasons more than anything.

There is also the issue of controllers. Some swear by an arcade stick, some are happy with the 360 pad. It can take time to adjust to a stick.

One thing is certain. You will need to be able to sit close to the screen. These games are not for sitting 8 feet away on a couch!!

It all depends on how good you are (or how good you will get) to see if any of this matters.

I'd consider myself a low-to-mid tier player. Have a couple of 1CCs (Gigawing, Darius Gaiden). None with Cave games thus far apart from Novice Mode of DFK.

I have SDOJ for 360 and I find it a slick, really entertaining (though very hard), game.

I don't have the DOJ or Ketsui port for 360. I do have the DOJ port for PS2 and it seems to be pretty good but I have no experience of it on any other consoles.

I have played DDP on Saturn and high skilled players here say that port is awful because of how differently it plays to the arcade. I have played it on MAME and I'm not good enough to notice the difference.

My answer - if you are starting out it won't matter a damn. If you find yourself getting really good and starting to complete for WRs then some ports will only take you so far. It will depend on the game. You can be sure that if you outgrow a port because you are a world champ then you can sell the game - and will likely make a profit.

If you have a PC about it is worth pointing out that both DOJ and Ketsui run in MAME. You don't need a powerful PC - far from it. They run on quite old PCs. The price of 2 or 3 360 games could get you a PC that can run a lot of shmups in emulation. It's a great way to check a game out before making an investment in a port. Not all games run in MAME yet and that is where looking at console ports makes more sense.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by DMC »

I agree with davyK. If you're new to this I think it would be best to approach these games with child-like curiosity.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good and just have some fun with this hobby.
Play some good games, play some bad ones. And then, if still interested, jump into whatever rabbit hole you prefer, be it one like this or this or one of the many others.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Haddock »

It’s hard because as someone new to this genre the more hardcore members can seem like they know best, but best is a subjective thing. It reminds me of the musicians world where people talk a lot about different guitars or keyboards, but in the end a good player is a good player (generally) regardless of instrument. Dealing with subtle differences is to be expected even at highest levels (in any pursuit) and a professional deals with them.

I honestly doubt I will even notice the difference between 3 or 4 frames of lag, and even if I did I doubt it would influence the game that badly as some people say it would(?). Furthermore you guys are right in that I don’t play arcade versions and most probably never will since there are no arcades anymore where I live, and buying a 4000 dollar PCB to play one game without any of the extras that a console port would have is not even close to my budget (even if I did have the money I would not).

I will pick up Ketsui on the 360 first then together with one of the Mushi’s (probably the first one), and we’ll see from there on out how I feel and what I want. I’m busy enough for right now with radiant silvergun (I got lucky to own that one for super cheap), but also can’t wait to experience some of Cave’s best work! Arguably Ketsui is their best, or so the 25th polls have me believe :)
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by sunnshine »

I've got them both and I like them, I'm more an enthusiastic amateur than expert though- I just like blowing stuff up :lol:
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by davyK »

shmups is a special genre. The people at the top end playing for score optimisations or 2-ALLs are playing a different game to the rest of us. It's always worth bearing that in mind. I don't say ignore them but factor it in.

You have casuals who enjoy the genre. They might want to see how far they can get in a game or check their score. They will flit from game to game and enjoy the genre.
Then you have survival players - they like getting a 1 credit completion. They might play early levels for score too but it's all about getting to the end on 1 credit.
Then you will get people who go for 2-ALLs which is the next challenge up for those games that have a 2nd loop.
Then there are those who can complete/1cc/2-all a certain game any day of the week and play for score. Squeezing points on a risk vs reward tightrope. They will know level layouts and enemy formations intimately and will be highly sensitive to any variation that a port might have.

It depends where you are on that rough scale. Your tolerance for port inaccuracy will lower the further up the scale you go.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Rastan78 »

One caveat to going down the road of the 360 is that the games are very expensive and mostly by Cave. I think it's a good time to be on the newer consoles where you can build a more diverse collection and the ports are generally more accurate.

IMO people new to the genre tend to focus on flashy attention grabbing games like DOJ and Ikaruga when these games are pretty hard to grasp for beginners. They're really designed for specialized players and can take a long time to get into.

You already have a PS4? I'd say definitely pick up Ketsui and Esprade on there if you do. That's a lower risk way($$$) to put some time in and see how you really like the Cave style. These games should keep you busy for a while. Even if you don't have any real goals and are playing casually it's better not to jump from game to game constantly. You'll never get a grasp on any game and just end up credit feeding. Also pick up something like Mahou Daisakusen as the basic core of Toaplan/Raizing/Cave style gameplay is there, but you can build up your confidence in a game like that without busting your balls trying to jump into something like DOJ too soon.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by ATTRACTS »

They are great. Don't get too wrapped up in what the experts on here like to complain about. They are analyzing things from a very different perspective than someone who is just jumping in. If you are new and starting out and have the money to spend, enjoy this journey and play the games that interest you. They both perform well now and are a lot of fun. Hard but fun.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by sunnshine »

If you can handle a small audio delay then Xenia is a way to play 360 shmups without actually having to own a 360. I've got a modded 360 but still use Xenia quite a lot too. Ketsui doesn't run in Xenia (yet?) but loads of the other shmups do.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Jeneki »

I can't say I've ever heard someone speak badly about the 360 Ketsui port. Is this a thing now?
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Rastan78 »

Sometimes I think there's a false dichotomy around so-called hardcore shmup players vs casuals. I often see statements like hardcore 2 loop, frothing at the mouth WR chasing players will notice the issues but for 99.99% of the rest of us these ports will be fine.

In reality I've often seen more complaining or avoidance of ports considered bad by players that aren't experts. Perfect example is Ibara. This port is considered extremely flawed by Cave fans largely due only to the slightly blurred image quality and missing slowdown. Back in the early days of Ibara I owned the PCB and had the 2nd highest western score IIRC and was one of the first to figure a few of the tricks. While I did play on PCB I found the PS2 version to be totally acceptable when I got the chance to try it. The world record holder ACR played the PS2 version. Training mode and or save states is a huge bonus compared to something like image quality if score is your main concern.

I remember the Mushi 1.5 original record holder saying that they were posting scores on the 360 using the default analogue thumbstick and scores were near arcade WR. If anything input lag, missing slowdown or less than ideal controllers are going to affect new players more. Late panic bombs, sloppy inputs, reliance on twitch reactive dodging vs routing etc.

That being said, since I was a kid with an SNES I got a kick out of spotting the missing details and animations in SF2 when I would get a chance to play the arcade version. I've always liked spotting the differences in ports which I'm sure many others do to regardless of skill level.

TLDR: statements like "only the elite complainer types will notice" aren't useful bc they don't provide any information for people legit asking to learn about port pros and cons. It's not accurate bc it paints "expert" players with too broad of a brush sometimes insinuating that they are elitist. There are also beginner and intermediate players who prioritize port accuracy and that's totally fine.

@ATTRACTS I do totally agree that it's better for players to enjoy games and not go too far down that rabbit hole. Just voicing some general thoughts. :)
Last edited by Rastan78 on Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Udderdude »

Jeneki wrote:I can't say I've ever heard someone speak badly about the 360 Ketsui port. Is this a thing now?
Dodonpachi Daioujou Black Label Extra (aka DODGEBLECKS) is the one with the poor reputation. Not sure how Ketsui got roped into that, but it's been more than a decade, and the game of telephone has been going on and on.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Rastan78 »

Jeneki wrote:I can't say I've ever heard someone speak badly about the 360 Ketsui port. Is this a thing now?
Runs at 60 fps which is slightly faster than original arcade game speed
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Haddock wrote: As far as Ketsui is concerned I realize there is a PS4 port that is quite well received, but I would like to own the games as much on 1 platform if possible so I would prefer the 360 version if that port is just as good (again, the main game, I realize the PS4 port has new modes but I don’t care about those so much).
You should care! The PS4 port is part of the ShotTriggers series by M2, who are the best there is at porting older 2d games. Their attention to detail is obsessive, and ShotTriggers is pretty much the gold standard of shmup porting. The new modes are also not trivial, they're largely tailored toward training and facilitating genuine mastery of the game. Ie., having you play a small slice of a stage with certain relevant challenges set, which is much less daunting than going through the whole game over & over. If you can master each challenge for a stage, when you go back to play the whole thing through you'll know exactly what to do.

Though as others have noted, many of the reasons a port will be considered 'bad' are relatively small - ie., the arcade board ran at 57.4 fps for some dumb reason, while the home port is at 60 fps. Or the console uses a different resolution so things are scaled a couple of pixels differently. These elements will throw off someone who already has the game memorized backwards & forwards, but mean literally nothing to anyone who doesn't.

The one proviso is that sometimes those small issues will make a difference in scoring at the highest levels, so certain versions aren't used for 'official' high score lists. There's no reason they can't have their own, however.

The one thing you should pay heed to is input lag. I thought it was no big deal - and it can definitely be overblown by some - until I learned to detect it. It will matter in a lot of ways, and change the whole feel of controlling the game. In a game with high latency your ship will feel "heavy" and sluggish, almost like you're dragging it. But at the same time, it will keep moving on screen after you've stopped inputting a direction because it's still catching up to your inputs. It will also mean that last second bomb you used to save yourself from an inescapable situation often doesn't come out in time. (Though that can actually be a good training tool in itself, forcing you to learn to recognize inescapable situations sooner).

The latency of the monitor/TV you use tends to be much larger than the games though. I highly recommend a rotatable monitor with 1 frame of lag, or a really good CRT for consoles with analog outputs. They're not expensive at all in the shmup scheme of things, and will be the single most impactful purchase you can make.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Some-Mist »

iirc dojblex got the bad reputation because 5pb just used the arika code from the PS2 game which created a buncha bugs in the 360 version. I think they even had to bring arika on board to help release a patch to fix the broken port. there used to be super long loading times between each stage which I think the patch helped reduce. I was still stoked to have a 360 port of the game instead of having to bust out my PS2 to play it.

the arrrange x-mode(?) from the 360 ketsui port was pretty sick
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Rastan78 »

Though as others have noted, many of the reasons a port will be considered 'bad' are relatively small - ie., the arcade board ran at 57.4 fps for some dumb reason, while the home port is at 60 fps.
A ton of arcade games and old consoles ran at speeds just shy of 60 fps. A lot of times it's not that noticeable but it can be easy to underestimate. Think about how slowly PAL games seem to absolutely crawl at 50hz and that's only a difference of 10 fps. Certain arcade hardware like Seibu SPI ran even a few frames slower than Ketsui (around 54 or 55hz IIRC) and the difference when playing at 60 fps is noticably faster bullets etc. 2 side by side playthroughs one on PCB and one at 60 fps would eventually desync to the point where one player is watching the credits while one is still playing the last stage. Even by the end of the first stage they will be noticably out of sync.

Like you said more inconvenient for people who invested a lot of time and have a feel for the game. Not a deal breaker for the 360 port, but a strong point in favor of the M2 PS4 port of Ketsui for sure. M2 has shown how they will sync the attract mode of their port with the PCB and let both run for hours side by side to ensure they remain synced.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Haddock »

Well you guys have certainly given me a lot to think about. I think for the near future I will stick with what I have (PS4, Dreamcast and Saturn). Right now I'm trying to 1CC Radiant Silvergun which isn't easy for me but seems quite doable at this point. If I'm going to jump into the cave shmup library I will probably just start with the PS4 version of Ketsui (that game seems REALLY good, even compared to most other cave shmups I've watched. I think it's the general aesthetic combined with the risky scoring system :)

I was looking at the 360 because I somehow figured it wouldn't be so expensive. That turned out to be very wrong as a trip to Ebay showed me! Here's hoping that those M2 guys port DOJ or Mushihimesama Futari to the PS4 at some point! But it's easy to fall into the trap of buying all these games yet by doing that you never actually get to the bottom of any of them gameplay-wise. Which is sort of contra-productive of what these games are (or can be) all about.. Thanks for sorting me out guys.

Interestingly someone mentioned Ikaruga. In all regards I should LOVE that game (as I love Radiant Silvergun, I really do..) but I...don't. I love everything about it, except actually playing it (for score). It just feels too rigid, and I can appreciate it for what it is for sure, but radiant just feels better and more fun to play right now even though it's also rigid in terms of chaining (even more so perhaps). So I guess I'm a weird newbie, in that I don't like Ikaruga!? How about that.

Also I'm lucky, I have a very good quality CRT (PVM 20m2mde) so on that end my delay isn't too bad at all (at least for RGB compatible consoles).
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by LordHypnos »

I would definitely agree that bad ports can matter even if just playing for basic 1-ALLs. If nothing else, lag can render an already hard game much harder, or even just make a game less fun to play. I don't think there are too many ports with that much lag, though. Slowdown matters more for some games than others. I have not really played any games at a slightly faster FPS that I'm aware of, so can't comment on that, but I imagine 5 frames could make a noticeable difference.
Seibu ... around 54 or 55hz
I have heard this about the Raiden Fighters games. I noticed that there are several FPS settings in the 360 port, anyone know what they do? I think I have it on the one called "blend" or something like that.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Rastan78 »

But it's easy to fall into the trap of buying all these games yet by doing that you never actually get to the bottom of any of them gameplay-wise.
This is the problem with gaming in the modern era! Too many choices. :lol:

That's one of the reasons I don't usually play on emulators. Maybe the biggest barrier to becoming halfway decent in shmups is developing the ability/attention span to not switch games every time you lose a credit. Better to just take a break between credits.

Sometimes I found it helpful to have an easier, lighter game within the same genre I can temporarily switch to if I'm a little burnt out on the main game I'm playing. Lately GG Aleste 3 has been good for that.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Haddock wrote:Well you guys have certainly given me a lot to think about. I think for the near future I will stick with what I have (PS4, Dreamcast and Saturn). Right now I'm trying to 1CC Radiant Silvergun which isn't easy for me but seems quite doable at this point. If I'm going to jump into the cave shmup library I will probably just start with the PS4 version of Ketsui (that game seems REALLY good, even compared to most other cave shmups I've watched. I think it's the general aesthetic combined with the risky scoring system :)

I was looking at the 360 because I somehow figured it wouldn't be so expensive. That turned out to be very wrong as a trip to Ebay showed me! Here's hoping that those M2 guys port DOJ or Mushihimesama Futari to the PS4 at some point! But it's easy to fall into the trap of buying all these games yet by doing that you never actually get to the bottom of any of them gameplay-wise. Which is sort of contra-productive of what these games are (or can be) all about.. Thanks for sorting me out guys.

Interestingly someone mentioned Ikaruga. In all regards I should LOVE that game (as I love Radiant Silvergun, I really do..) but I...don't. I love everything about it, except actually playing it (for score). It just feels too rigid, and I can appreciate it for what it is for sure, but radiant just feels better and more fun to play right now even though it's also rigid in terms of chaining (even more so perhaps). So I guess I'm a weird newbie, in that I don't like Ikaruga!? How about that.

Also I'm lucky, I have a very good quality CRT (PVM 20m2mde) so on that end my delay isn't too bad at all (at least for RGB compatible consoles).
You seem to be used to 240p RGB systems. In this day and age, I'd go with PC+Groovymame without a doubt mate, even if I'd need to buy a PC. It requires some time and knowledge to set it up ... and further tweaking for the CV1k games ... but many of the 360 ports are a mess visually where they couldn't even decide a single resolution for the graphics. Not the case of Ketsui or DOJ, but their 240p modes are flawed anyway due to the console's limitations. Then again, you may not care about this stuff...
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by emphatic »

The 360 port of Ketsui runs faster than the PCB, but unless you've played the PCB, you won't notice. The X-Mode is ok.
The 360 port of DOJ with the update patch installed still have slow loading times in the menus, but once you're in the game, the port is great. The X-Mode is top notch!

I'm pretty sure they'll look great on your PVM.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Some-Mist »

now you have me questioning whether I even played the x-mode in doj or not, but I'm pretty sure I'm still thinking of the ketsui one because it had a bullet cancelling mechanic(?) that made it easier for me to get to stage 5/clear on 1 credit... kinda like how pink sweets arrange made it much more manageable for someone who would otherwise fall flat within the first few stages. regardless, back then I really loved mechanics that made blisteringly difficult games more manageable and it's been so long since I've touched them so I'd trust what you're saying lol
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by CloudyMusic »

LordHypnos wrote:
Seibu ... around 54 or 55hz
I have heard this about the Raiden Fighters games. I noticed that there are several FPS settings in the 360 port, anyone know what they do? I think I have it on the one called "blend" or something like that.
Yeah, it's a choice of how you want the game to reconcile the fact that it's trying to make a 54hz game run at 60hz. Rather than trying to incorrectly remember the details, I managed to Google up an old post that explains what the options basically do:
colour_thief wrote:The original arcade PCB was 54 fps and the port only outputs 59.94 fps. Your options are:

1. Speed up the same game engine by ~6 fps. Motion is smooth but everything is harder to dodge... This is sort of like playing a Cave game without slowdown, except it's always missing.

2. Duplicate every ~9th frame. (54/9) * 10 = 60. But this means the action pauses for 1 frame every 9 frames. It's jittery, the scrolling backgrounds and bullets don't move evenly.

3. Blend every ~9th frame. This still has all the problems of 2. basically.

The only way to get truly faithful motion is to output an integer multiple of 54 fps. I'm not sure if this is possible on X360 but not getting 54 fps is a bigger deal to me than scanlines.
I also used "blend" and never really had any complaints with it.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:
You seem to be used to 240p RGB systems. In this day and age, I'd go with PC+Groovymame without a doubt mate, even if I'd need to buy a PC. It requires some time and knowledge to set it up ... and further tweaking for the CV1k games ... but many of the 360 ports are a mess visually where they couldn't even decide a single resolution for the graphics. Not the case of Ketsui or DOJ, but their 240p modes are flawed anyway due to the console's limitations. Then again, you may not care about this stuff...
Meant 15khz there, obviously! The console isnt able of 240p, but it is of 480i. Graphics in these two games aren't even evenly scaled in 480 modes due to their original resolution, way higher than 320 pixels (what the XB360 can handle properly). All this of course only makes sense if you use your monitor vertically.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by davyK »

Get Mushi Futari. It's unbelievably good. M2 did the port. Stupendous game.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Haddock wrote:I think for the near future I will stick with what I have (PS4, Dreamcast and Saturn).
Oh yeah, you're absolutely set with that trio. Unless you really just want late period Cave, you wouldn't need any other hardware for a decade (at least) in terms of shmupping.

Ketsui & Esp.Ra.De Ψ on PS4 will give you months of Cave-ing. Ketsui in particular is hard..

Saturn is one of the few avenues to play the original DonPachi, and DoDonPachi is there as well.

In fact Saturn is host to some legendary (or just good/interesting) games from other devs of the era which have never really resurfaced anywhere else. Like Saturn is somehow still the only home port of Batsugun. Same with Kingdom Grand Prix, Layer Section (unless you can get Windows '97 up and running), Techno Soft's Hyper Duel and Blast Wind, Taito's Gekirindan, Data East's Skull Fang, and I believe the Time Bokan shooter.

Cotton 2, Cotton Boomerang and Guardian Force were all exclusives as well, but they're being re-published as Saturn Tribute Collection for PS4 & Switch. Which is great, because the Saturn versions of those games would cost up near $1000 altogether. Here's hoping for solid ports.
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Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by XtraSmiley »

Being a fan and a casual player (my scores suck compared to everyone here!) but a collector of real PCBs, I say...

Just get the PS4 versions of everything. The PS4's shmup collection is awesome as is and is growing fast. Not to mention they all seem to play fine (if not better due to reduced load times) on PS5 means they are future proofed.

PS4 has Cave games, it has Hamster emulated games, it has cool remakes, it has original shmups.

For the collection, the accuracy, and the price, you can't beat PS4 right now.

Xbox 360? Just get a cheap one (I got one for $20) and hack it to play everything for free. The companies aren't getting a penny if you pay $$$ for used games anyway, so why do it?
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Haddock
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat May 22, 2021 4:08 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by Haddock »

Sengoku Strider wrote:
Haddock wrote:I think for the near future I will stick with what I have (PS4, Dreamcast and Saturn).
Oh yeah, you're absolutely set with that trio. Unless you really just want late period Cave, you wouldn't need any other hardware for a decade (at least) in terms of shmupping.

Ketsui & Esp.Ra.De Ψ on PS4 will give you months of Cave-ing. Ketsui in particular is hard..

Saturn is one of the few avenues to play the original DonPachi, and DoDonPachi is there as well.

In fact Saturn is host to some legendary (or just good/interesting) games from other devs of the era which have never really resurfaced anywhere else. Like Saturn is somehow still the only home port of Batsugun. Same with Kingdom Grand Prix, Layer Section (unless you can get Windows '97 up and running), Techno Soft's Hyper Duel and Blast Wind, Taito's Gekirindan, Data East's Skull Fang, and I believe the Time Bokan shooter.

Cotton 2, Cotton Boomerang and Guardian Force were all exclusives as well, but they're being re-published as Saturn Tribute Collection for PS4 & Switch. Which is great, because the Saturn versions of those games would cost up near $1000 altogether. Here's hoping for solid ports.
I just put in an order for Ketsui and Esp.Ra.De on PS4! I have never heard of Esp.Ra.De to be quite honest but I was looking at some reviews and it looks interesting, early cave had some interesting experimental games it seems! I saw Battle Garegga is also on PS4, is that considered a better port than the Saturn version? In any case it's considerably cheaper so if it isn't bad I will probably just pick that one up, just a shame I wouldn't be able to play it on my CRT :P

Although Garegga will have to wait a bit, that game seems to have an insane score system that (to me right now) makes zero sense. It's almost as if half of the scoring wasn't intended by developers and was discovered by players! Very esoteric, for the lack of a better term.

In any case, with those three games (two of them considered top 5 consistently by this forum) it's more than enough to keep me busy for years lol. The xbox360 can wait, the game I most want to play from the late cave catalogue is Mushihimesama Futari, but buying a japanese 360 for one game is.. not worth it (for me).
el_rika
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:44 pm

Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by el_rika »

Haddock wrote: the game I most want to play from the late cave catalogue is Mushihimesama Futari, but buying a japanese 360 for one game is.. not worth it (for me).

Use mame emulator.
Check the slowdown accuracy thread for how to make it play and look great.
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DenimDemon
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 6:15 pm

Re: How bad are Daioujou and Ketsui on the 360?

Post by DenimDemon »

Ketsui on 360 is a fantastic port. Best home port to get before the Ps4 release. Even if, for any reason, you're just left with the 360 port... You're in for a great treat.

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