ACA Gradius III

[SPM]

In the Arcade Archives release, does anyone know what version we play under the "Hi Score" mode? JPN old, JPN new or Asia?
Aside from that, any version considered "better" than the others?

Man I had only played the first Gradius on the NES before and didn't like it at all (can't stand it actually) and didn't bother to even try the sequels. But I must say I'm having a blast (well... that's it until halfway through stage 2 Didn't know bubbles were so deadly!! I'll take care from now on when taking a shower

[Rastan78]

There was an invincibility glitch in the old version that I believe was fixed in the updated rom. Gradius III is a fairly buggy game, but I couldn't tell you what the full list of fixes or changes were on the new version.

https://youtu.be/ppOJkFtCD2M

[MJR]

But I must say I'm having a blast (well... that's it until halfway through stage 2 Didn't know bubbles were so deadly!!

Oh you sweet summer child..

[BIL]

I could've sworn there was a note somewhere, either in the manual or startup screens, mentioning Japan New was used in Hi Score mode. But it seems not. :/ I might've been thinking of ACA Zero Team, which mentions New Version is used for HS Mode in its manual.

I'd guess Japan New is the one used in ACA Gradius III, but it's just a hypothesis. Maybe Hamster themselves might clarify at some point, I might email to ask.

If I remember right from ages back, when tviks was active here, the Asia revision is somewhat easier than the Japan ones. I'll have to refresh my memory, will go digging in case nobody else confirms.

EDIT: Useful info from TCRF. As they say, Asia rev has at least one MASSIVE difference (that I'd completely forgotten about ): Dying doesn't wipe all your powerups. Rather, you lose your Options, keeping your Speedups, Missile and Laser/Double. Each successive death will wipe another, in descending meter order (so Speed is the last to go).

wtf is this sorcery (■｀ω´■)

Spoiler

Even if the rest of the game remained unchanged, that'd be a huge leg up for the 1CC. Sounds pretty nice tbh. JP recoveries tend to be near-impossible if you're not already a loop-lopping samurai.

[ZaKa-tokyobassist]

I gave this game a fair amount of effort and I just had to give up attempting 1CCs after the absolute travesty that is the Fire stage and the Cube Rush. I was completely content with just beating the game using save states just to see the game through for the differences and music. I'll stick to the SNES version on Arcade difficulty since I'm a coward lol.

[MathU]

As BIL mentioned, you can tell whether it's a Japan release or instead the World or Asia releases by whether or not you keep any power-ups after death. It also lets you know whether the purpose of this release was for people to brag about their accomplishments or for people to actually enjoy themselves playing it.

JP recoveries tend to be near-impossible if you're not already a loop-lopping samurai.

Although I'd like to stress that it has surprisingly more recoverable checkpoints than its infamous reputation would suggest.
With spread bombs anyway.

[BIL]

Very true! It's not quite the universally unrecoverable nightmare it can appear. Some surprisingly late-game checkpoints are more feasible than the worst earlier ones, too.

[SPM]

Thanks! Looks like I'm playing the Asian version for now then (at least to have the false hope of a triumphal recovery )

Btw, only ~100 people seem to have made it past stage 2 in Hi Score mode (which looks like JPN New as BIL said). Crazy thing!

Stage 3 is looking better though. Not being a "random" mess helps come up with a strategy.

One (last) question regarding the difficulty options (easy, normal, hard, very hard). Were they present in the Arcade PCBs, or is it an add-on? Do they differ much from one another? I beat stage 2 after switching to easy... but that could also be me getting better right?

[BIL]

Generally speaking, ACA emulates the game's PCB - nothing more, nothing less. So if it's in the Game Settings menu, it's almost certainly straight from the game board.

Here's Gradius III's operator manual - seems it suggests Normal as its default, with Easy/Hard/V.Hard as the other three options.

MAME's another good way to see a game's DIPs. I've been playing a lot of SNK's 80s arcade catalogue, the last year or so - I notice that the operator manuals, MAME, and ACA all seem to agree that Ikari, Dogosoken and Guevara's boards default to Easy (which is not at all easy ). Tecmo boards seem similar... interestingly, what ACA calls "Easy/Normal/Hard/V.Hard" in Ninja Gaiden is labeled "Normal/Special1/Special2/Special3" in the game's English operator manual.

There's also special cases like Double Dragon II, whose factory defaults are Normal difficulty/Normal timer/No spin-kick assist. The operator's manual recommends Hard difficulty/Hard timer/Easy spin-kick... I suspect so 80s kids would die extra-quick while spamming the RADICOOL super attack (which the AI will punish viciously, if not properly set up with good fundamentals ). So it's not an exact science.

NB that a few ACA releases have optional bugfixes (Image Fight), or sync settings (Super Cobra's PCB refresh rate is very slightly above 60hz), or just special additions from the staff (Trigon's hitbox reduction) - if present, these are always found under the "Preference Settings" submenu.

[SPM]

I wish there was the PS2 option to play with no slowdown (or at least less slowdown). It's getting a bit on my nerves...

The "adjust game wait" doesn't seem to adjust that much...

Let's see how it goes from stage 4 on! So far I loved the first stage and most of stage 3 (a bit too long though). Stage 2 is fun as well but a bit samey.

[BIL]

Out of curiosity, have you played Gradius II? Of the 80s Gradius/Salamander canon, it's sort of the golden boy to Gradius III's black sheep. Much more evenly-balanced game. Its absolute difficulty doesn't approach GIII's (very few other members of the series do, outside of arguably Gradius IV, and Parodius Da if you count that), but it's not a walkover, either. Legendary tunes from Motoaki "Burning Heat" Furukawa, too!

Hilarity can still ensue but it's altogether a more reasonable affair. ;3

Spoiler

WAY less slowdown, as well. Konami kinda stopped caring, around Gradius III and Parodius Da.

[MathU]

Parodius Da! has a pretty rude adaptive difficulty system but once you figure it out I wouldn't really put it anywhere near the challenge of Gradius III.

[SPM]

I have not, but surely will! My experience with the series was just on the NES (Gradius and the spin-off Life Force, which I have much better memories of).

I think I'll give the whole main series a try now actually. V being the one I'm most excited about (since options management seems deeper and more fun in that game).

[BIL]

Parodius Da! has a pretty rude adaptive difficulty system but once you figure it out I wouldn't really put it anywhere near the challenge of Gradius III.

True, it's at least somewhat dis-armable. Among 1-ALLs JP Gradius III is almost uniquely brutal, certainly for its era. There's probably something out there similarly un-lovely, but I can't think of anything from a dev of Konami's stature.

I have not, but surely will! My experience with the series was just on the NES (Gradius and the spin-off Life Force, which I have much better memories of).

I think I'll give the whole main series a try now actually. V being the one I'm most excited about (since options management seems deeper and more fun in that game).

GV's NTSCU release was my reacquaintance with arcade-styled gaming as a whole. Without any exaggeration, I consider the announcer's Game Over quips becoming marginally less scornful as the 1-ALL nears a mark of genius. Didn't care at all about score, or numbers in general, but I wanted the smug bastard to finally acknowledge me! It really hit me once I'd survived the loop, how timelessly visceral this mode of gaming remains.

It migrates somewhat nearer danmaku ethics - micro hitbox on player and projectiles, general preference for slow onslaughts over Fast Aimed Shots™ - and it's overlong by arcade standards, but I had a great time revisiting recently - stage and boss design smartly leverages those modern amenities, it's a memorably intense run. The lack of Loop Select is a real shame, though I guess emulation could get around that.

[Rastan78]

True, it's at least somewhat dis-armable. Among 1-ALLs JP Gradius III is almost uniquely brutal, certainly for its era. There's probably something out there similarly un-lovely, but I can't think of anything from a dev of Konami's stature.

When it comes to 2nd loops Detana Twinbee has to be one of Konami's nastiest. Super risky bullet cancelling with the ship's ghost tracers is the only way.

Don't forget that the ACA port has a hitbox on mode. It's worth giving this a look as it can clarify some of the more confusing hitboxes. For example it's helpful to stop thinking of the bubbles on stage 2 as round when they're actually squares. There's quite a bit of leeway to hug them on the top or bottom, but it's those invisible corners that will tag you 9 times out of 10.

[BIL]

Detana's loop is described by Jaimers as super hard, that's all I needed to hear.

Been dabbling in its contemporary Trigon's loop, after the 1CC. The five stages or so I've seen seemed comparatively sane, pretty much the first with the rank permanently maxed out... which could be a problem, except the game's very generous with bombs (which are more like Garegga-style Special Weapons, ie you don't wanna hoard 'em, instead you should use them to smash bosses/chokepoints).

This would fit the pattern of director Hideyuki Tsujimoto's other AC Konami games from around then, like Super Contra, Sunset Riders and IIRC Mystic Warriors.

I used to think of solitary second loops as more of an IREM thing (even their conspicously arcadey Famicom run/gun Metal Storm has one), so it's been pleasantly surprising to find so many Konami titles with them. I don't go for the whole endurance thing... all respect to it, but at some point, you just know it's gonna come down to the basest biology. Forget shitting yourself at the controls (Asteroids WR = burn extra lives for bathroom breaks ) - eventually you're gonna either pass out from exhaustion, or do literal brain damage and start hallucinating spiders with faces where your hands used to be.

[Rastan78]

I'm right with you on that. Total respect to those X-Treme dudes that can pull it off. If I remember DBS did 32 loops on Truxton or something like that?

For me even if I'll never be a WR caliber player on any game I like having that sort of pie in the sky goal to compare to anyway when playing for score. If the end game comes down to some extreme feat of human endurance and advanced leg crossing and sphincter clenching abilities that I'll never be up for, that sorta kills it for me.

Maybe also it's because I like to have a game that I invest a lot of time in permanently become something that I could return to months or years later. I think if I ever could pull something like that off I wouldn't ever want to play said game again, or at least there would be no point.

[SPM]

But I must say I'm having a blast (well... that's it until halfway through stage 2 Didn't know bubbles were so deadly!!

Oh you sweet summer child..

Yeah... haha I've just reached the fire stage... WTF?! Bring my bubbles back please!

EDIT: Nope, that fire stage wasn't that bad... Now I know what true hell looks like... What the fuck is that cube rush! I had seen it before but playing it is just disgusting. I can firmly say I won't attempt a 1CC

[BIL]

I wish I could find that pic offhand of what looks, for all the world, like a university hall somewhere in Japan holding a seminar on Surviving Cube Rush. I'll try digging it up, it's a classic.

[Rastan78]

Stumbled on this vid a while back, but then had a hard time tracking it back down.

https://youtu.be/yBa3-8uCzjE

It's a tutorial that explains the cube rush, but it's in Japanese and looks really complex. Pretty hard to know WTF is going on, but it might help someone who already has a better understanding. I must need to sign up for the college level surviving cube rush 101 course.

[John4300]

Speaking of cube rush, I wanted to post something silly here. I had a vague memory of someone making a "game" to practice the cube rush, and with youtube's history search I found the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAOoa8_y5LM

The "game" seems to be made in 1991 if this isn't just a joke. Nowdays, using save states with emulator is probably the easiest way to practice the cube rush anyhow, but back in the day this would probably have been somewhat decent way of getting the thing down.

[MathU]

It's kind of interesting how that simulator has some subtle inaccuracies considering the effort put into it. These inaccuracies cause it to miss a major extra solution for improving the odds of the cube rush that I never see in other playthroughs: Cubes flying in at the uppermost entry row are still too low to harm your ship when it resides at the top of the screen. If you can recognize patterns where a few early cubes fly in on this highest row (which isn't too uncommon), you can increases your odds of success a fair bit.

[copy-paster]

There was an invincibility glitch in the old version that I believe was fixed in the updated rom. Gradius III is a fairly buggy game, but I couldn't tell you what the full list of fixes or changes were on the new version.

Did a full playthrough of this one with glitch activated and I can confirm this is truly one of the most ridiculous glitches in shmups, right up there (or worse) with Pink Sweets infinite lives. Whether you think using in-game exploits is considered cheating or no is up to the players, for me in my book, in-game exploits are always legit no matter how you look at it.

Not that this would make the game completely free, you can still die on the obstacles/terrain, regenerating walls, and the cubes. In this run I was lucky enough to nomiss cube rush on first attempt so I could show the boss rush+final stage with glitches still activated.

[BIL]

There was an invincibility glitch in the old version that I believe was fixed in the updated rom. Gradius III is a fairly buggy game, but I couldn't tell you what the full list of fixes or changes were on the new version.

Did a full playthrough of this one with glitch activated and I can confirm this is truly one of the most ridiculous glitches in shmups, right up there (or worse) with Pink Sweets infinite lives. Whether you think using in-game exploits is considered cheating or no is up to the players, for me in my book, in-game exploits are always legit no matter how you look at it.

Superb notes! Run's no slouch either! A Cube Rush survival is commendable in itself.

Christ, this game was unleashed in a feral state. Was thinking of the ACA release's "SUDDEN DEATH ON/OFF" bugfix after seeing this fourth loop tragicomedy. I've no idea if even the ACA rev fixes that.

A moai appears suddenly in the space, I couldn’t do anything, LOL.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

Sometimes I start thinking about playing Gradius 3 seriously. Then I remember the pseudo 3D stages and immediately get discouraged. It's just so crappy eating a wall after going through all that.