Would you take this class on Super Smash Bros. Melee?

Eps · Post by **Eps** » Sun May 21, 2006 9:06 pm

professor ganson wrote:As a professor of philosophy,

Oh dear..

I suppose my courses are on a par with this videogame class.

You said it!

Regards,

A. Physicist.

PS:

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Sun May 21, 2006 9:21 pm

professor ganson wrote: Philosophy as it's practiced in Germany and France is very different, very literary, but here in the US and in Britain philosophy is all about very rigorous argumentation.

Small correction: outside Anglophonic countries, there is a distinction between continental (Europe) philosophy and analytical philosophy. The former is what Professor Ganson describes in regard to France and Germany, the other is the Anglophonic model.
The core aspect about analytical philosophy is its fundation on logic: as such, it is not really different than CS or mathematics. One example can be found in Utrecht University of philosophy, which hosts a study programme called CKI (Cognitie Kunstmatige Intelligentie, site in dutch here), or in the ILLC (Institute of Logic and Language Computation, Amsterdam, site
here, which also hosts a Msc. and Ph.D. programme. The core idea is that information, language and thought are facets of the same prism, so an interdisciplinary approach via a common formal language (i.e. logic) should be the best way to pursuit the enteprise of understanding human cognition, in a nutshell.
Some figures that were philosophers at the beginning of their career but ended up being intersdisciplinary experts and important scientific figures are: Bertrand Russell, Rudolf Carnap, Alfred Tarski, Noam Chomsky, Hans kamp and others i can't remember now.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:33 am

Eps wrote:
professor ganson wrote:As a professor of philosophy,
Oh dear..
I suppose my courses are on a par with this videogame class.
You said it!

Regards,

A. Physicist.

PS:

Very nice. But this only serves to recommend the videogame class, since my courses are much loved.

Physics has the distinction of being the king of the sciences, but philosophy is surely their queen (source). Back in Aristotle's day the term "philosophy" was a term that covered all of the sciences (just means: love of knowledge). Separate sciences like physics and chemistry emerged only when you started to get widely accepted results in a specific area of investigation. On my view, philosophy is just the reservoir of all the deep problems we'd really like answers to but as yet have no widely accepted results (think of the mind-body problem or the problem of free will). In many cases there is a good deal of agreement about what the most plausible positions are and what the advantages and disadvantages of each position are, but no consensus about where the truth lies or even about what methods will best serve us in getting at the truth. The problems of philosophy are as difficult as they come---guaranteed. Because once you get a solution, you get a separate science and aren't dealing with philosophy any longer.

Sorry, I promise: no more philosophy here. I guess it's just on my mind right now because tomorrow is my FIRST DAY OF SUMMER, and so my first day in quite a while to do so some serious philosophy (not just teaching it).

Eps · Post by **Eps** » Mon May 22, 2006 1:37 am

Funny you should say that: on a similarly historical note, when people ask what I do and I'm feeling mischievous, I tell them I'm a 'natural philosopher'.

Now, about the proceedings of last week's meeting of the Royal Society and those interesting papers presented by Messrs. Hooke and Newton...

PS: While I am only exchanging banter with Prof. Ganson, and do indeed respect his field, it should be noted that anyone offering similar justifications for majors in media studies will be placed against a wall and shot.

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Mon May 22, 2006 5:27 am

Didn't they have Virtua Fighter 2 classes in Japan back in the day?

D · Post by D » Mon May 22, 2006 7:45 am

I'd like to give Street Fighter III classes.
-First of all different versions/interlaced modes/CPSIII hardware/basic JAMMA knowledge
-setup > cab or supergun > ebay negotiation tips
-reversals
-parrying practise, I'll have the entire class jiggling their sticks
Ladies get in for free (to stimulate female gaming offcourse)

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Mon May 22, 2006 4:22 pm

Actually I would LOVE to take a class on how to build Jamma and other hardware.

Eps · Post by **Eps** » Mon May 22, 2006 5:22 pm

Blade wrote:Actually I would LOVE to take a class on how to build Jamma and other hardware.

That's crazy talk - nobody would sign up for a JAMMA-building course! I mean, you might learn something!!

It might involve an ounce of actual engineering ability, and teach the people in the class some useful skills, and not just the usual "problem solving," "organisation" and "working in teams" bumf that gets trotted out as the 'skills' learned from joke courses!

(Sorry, my university's investing in, shall we say, 'less credible' degree courses at the expense of the sciences, which it is killing off, has made me even more cynical than before

)

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Mon May 22, 2006 7:16 pm

I seem to recall that at one point, the local technical college actually had someone running a class on Starcraft. I don't recall if it was a credit class or a Continuing Ed class though. I could see something like that in Korea, but not here. On the other hand, I understand that some of the game design programs they have at DigiPen (which isn't far from my place) are very intensive classes requiring a lot of work to get through.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Mon May 22, 2006 8:22 pm

stuffmonger wrote:Wow... This is partially why college is stupid.

Couldn't disagree more. I'm actually wondering if there's a way I could get a PhD, so I can stay in school longer

I don't even drink that much.

College=incredibly smart people explaining to you how the world works, reading worthwhile books/articles, and no "social segregation" (official term please? cliques, popular crowd etc) like in high school. It's literally that good.

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:41 pm

Neon wrote:
stuffmonger wrote:Wow... This is partially why college is stupid.
Couldn't disagree more. I'm actually wondering if there's a way I could get a PhD, so I can stay in school longer I don't even drink that much.

Looks like the world is going to have another college professor before too long.

stuffmonger · Post by **stuffmonger** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:17 am

Neon wrote:
stuffmonger wrote:Wow... This is partially why college is stupid.
Couldn't disagree more. I'm actually wondering if there's a way I could get a PhD, so I can stay in school longer I don't even drink that much.

College=incredibly smart people explaining to you how the world works, reading worthwhile books/articles, and no "social segregation" (official term please? cliques, popular crowd etc) like in high school. It's literally that good.

WTF are you talking about? A society where you have to go to school where you don't learn anything usefull in order to get a higher paying job, instead of a society where you have to prove your skills through competence is not the way a country should be run. This ssbm class just goes to add onto the useless junk that don't have any real life usefulness. I'm in college right now, and I see all the bs that goes on... you don't really learn very much at all. You temporarilly learn what you need to know for the tests, and then a week later you have no clue what the hell the previous chapter was on. Even then, about 3/4 of the students drop out of the class before it is complete. They don't get any dings on their transcripts if they drop out, and they get their money back for the course if they do it before something like 3 weeks before finals day. If you drop a class, you should be required to finish it, and what you get, is what you get. College isn't about learning anymore... it's just another way for someone to screw you in the ass and take your money, while at the same time, holding you back from doing what you want in life.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:55 am

stuffmonger wrote:...and they get their money back for the course if they do it before something like 3 weeks before finals day.

Maybe things are different where you go to college, but around here they're way too fond of your money to give you that much leeway...I think you have to drop a course within the first couple of days to get much money back.

That said, as a college student myself I agree to a point about what you say about higher education's shortcomings...not all the way though.

The n00b · Post by **The n00b** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:59 am

Eps wrote:
Blade wrote:Actually I would LOVE to take a class on how to build Jamma and other hardware.
That's crazy talk - nobody would sign up for a JAMMA-building course! I mean, you might learn something!! It might involve an ounce of actual engineering ability, and teach the people in the class some useful skills, and not just the usual "problem solving," "organisation" and "working in teams" bumf that gets trotted out as the 'skills' learned from joke courses!

(Sorry, my university's investing in, shall we say, 'less credible' degree courses at the expense of the sciences, which it is killing off, has made me even more cynical than before )

What do you mean by "less credible." I majored in history, and even though it's a liberal arts major, I regard it as credible a major as engineering or any other science major. I learned how to do great public presentations, communicate with people from different backgrounds, write entertaining as well as informative reports, "fish for the truth," and I was exposed to cultures and books that I never would have investigated otherwise.

I know you never expressly mentioned the liberal arts majors but it seems, at least at my university, that we're always regarded as the "party people" or the slackers. And before anyone asks my current job actually has very little to do with history but it takes advantage of all the skills I learned as a history major.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:16 am

Andi wrote:
Neon wrote:
stuffmonger wrote:Wow... This is partially why college is stupid.
Couldn't disagree more. I'm actually wondering if there's a way I could get a PhD, so I can stay in school longer I don't even drink that much.
Looks like the world is going to have another college professor before too long.

Dunno whether I've been zinged or not...

stuffmonger: interesting perspective. I'm a history major (going for a masters in education), so naturally I'm learning a lot of relevant things (even basic shite I never knew, thanks public school)...I think it doesn't really matter though. All disciplines are connected to a degree, I'm sure whatever it is will come in handy at some point. I dunno, some of the best things I've ever learned have been at college. I oughta post my notes on logic at some point.

Eps · Post by **Eps** » Tue May 23, 2006 5:10 pm

The n00b wrote: What do you mean by "less credible." I majored in history, and even though it's a liberal arts major, I regard it as credible a major as engineering or any other science major. I learned how to do great public presentations, communicate with people from different backgrounds, write entertaining as well as informative reports, "fish for the truth," and I was exposed to cultures and books that I never would have investigated otherwise.

Funnily enough, all those skills -- even the one about cultures -- are cultivated as a scientist, in addition to the more well-known hardcore science knowledge element. But that response aside, I have to stress that I wasn't referring to the great liberal arts courses such as history (also dying at my university), English literature (same), or fine art (ditto). I'm talking about majors in video game studies and shit like that. Things that may be interesting to learn but should not form the basis of a college degree!! Sadly, they bring in the money: there are a lot of people who frankly just want to go to college so they don't have to get a job, and will get their parents to pay the fees of any old 'slacker course'. Specially with the UK government's target of over 50% of the population going to university -- which doesn't really tally with the role of universities as institutions of high-level education.

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Wed May 24, 2006 5:51 am

Eps wrote:I'm talking about majors in video game studies and shit like that. Things that may be interesting to learn but should not form the basis of a college degree!!

Well, might be the video industary (Development / Sale / Marketing / Acrade Operators / Game Mag) would to hire these people. Especially if this people also hold a degree in Computer Science or Fine Art.

Tar-Palantir · Post by **Tar-Palantir** » Wed May 24, 2006 4:19 pm

Physicists...

Eps · Post by **Eps** » Wed May 24, 2006 5:35 pm

SAM wrote:
Eps wrote:I'm talking about majors in video game studies and shit like that. Things that may be interesting to learn but should not form the basis of a college degree!!
Well, might be the video industary (Development / Sale / Marketing / Acrade Operators / Game Mag) would to hire these people. Especially if this people also hold a degree in Computer Science or Fine Art.

Haha, there was a thread on NTSCUK recently about this, featuring the input of a few people in the industry. The 100% consensus was: "OMG DON'T DO ONE OF THOSE CRAPPY DEGREES, ARE YOU CRAZY?! DO A DEGREE IN COMPUTER SCIENCE OR MATHS/MUSIC/FINE ART INSTEAD" (for programmers/musicians/artists respectively

)

SimplyAmazuring · Post by **SimplyAmazuring** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:35 am

Maybe I can clear up some speculations about this course, as I am one of its professors. Yes, the Smash Brothers course is only a 1 credit course, but students have the option to take it for 0 credits, thereby not "wasting" their education money. In all honesty, I tend to view Super Smash Brothers Melee as another competetive recreational activity much like bowling or chess. No one seems to doubt the legitimacy of bowling or chess for credit (or maybe some do?) so why not Melee? I'll be happy to debate / defend the course further.

As for the content, the course is designed with beginners in mind, but there is a LOT of content for the experienced smashers as well (Full syllabus + lesson plans are over 30 pages long). You really can't learn everything by just picking up a controller and playing. The game is much deeper than most people realize. Ask any tournament-caliber smasher and they'll agree that techniques like wave-dashing, l-canceling, DI, and chain throwing are not intuitive and require practice and dedication to perform effectively. Actually, the excerpt of the syllabus posted in this thread is a bit out-dated but most of the concepts are the same. I hope this cleared up some confusion and let me know if I can field any more questions regarding the course. -SimplyAmazuring

Middlemoor · Post by **Middlemoor** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:19 am

Man, I would definately take that class if it was offered to me at college.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:00 am

I don't see why some people are uptight about this, it's just a bit of fun and you need that while slogging through uni

All credit to the prof for a very interesting and amusing topic

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:58 am

Doesn't seem to be much use for the SSBM course when I know every trick listed on the syllabus (mostly being on the receiving side...) after over a thousand hours of SSBM play.

Man, if that SF course had been offered at Berkeley back when I was in college, I would've definitely wanted to go there (and I could've made it too). Sucks for people like me who wasted their way through free college...

Eps · Post by **Eps** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:37 pm

SimplyAmazuring wrote:No one seems to doubt the legitimacy of bowling or chess for credit

You wanna bet?!