It's 2021. Why is 'arcade mode' still the default?

[Despatche]

That looks quite good, thanks for pointing it out! Bring back the arcade platformers! Not really a platformer (or is it?), but I'm surprised noone's really tried to make a game like Mr. Driller, come to think of it.

Listen buddy. I appreciate the effort behind your wall of text, but just because taito or some other devs didn't get this right doesn't mean that a high-content shmup is not possible and shouldn't be attemtped. I've provided a nice list of reasons for the OP's question earlier but that doesn't invalidate the prospect of someone trying to make such a game. There could be many implementations that the shmup community would actually approve of, and stating otherwise is silly considering anything can become a game.

I will however agree that arcade mode is, in fact, normal mode for shmups.

I swear to you that I did not even know Metal Combat existed when I picked this name, but you better believe I am abusing the hell out of it now that I do!

That's not what I'm getting at. What I'm getting at is that the OP wants the entire genre to become this, like so many others have demanded in the past. I mean, just look at the topic title. When people demand things out of genres, they want those genres to change permanently and to never look back. That is dangerous, because that is the path of the lowest common denominator. You know what the lowest common denominator for shmups looks like, right? I'm not being even slightly elitist here either... do you really want a future where every game is some jank, near-unplayable garbage? Do you really want to see "broken into chunks" added to the definition of "euroshmup"? That is the future that the people making these demands want. That is the future that the Sine Mora worshippers want. You know this.

I too have listed a few examples of games that did a plenty good job of it. It's definitely possible. You have to be really careful, the benefit of it is questionable or at least arguable, and it's just not something that the entire genre can (or should) do all the time, but yes it can be done. I didn't mention RXN either, a game I actually like, one reason being that it did try to be a little different.

[XoPachi]

I'm surprised noone's really tried to make a game like Mr. Driller, come to think of it.

I swear, I was just looking at a "successor" of sorts on the eShop yesterday. I know I was... I'll have to go back.

Sine Mora worshippers

......Who lives that sad life?

[Rastan78]

I think Shovel Knight Dig has a ton of potential. Definitely has some Mr Driller vibes. Looks like it will be more of a "roguelite" (such an annoying word) than pure arcade, but for me anything that has you starting from scratch and working towards a complete run in one go is cool.

Really what is a roguelite other than a throwback to arcade style gaming with a lot of RNG thrown in to mix up each run?

Sine Mora worshippers

Forgive them; for they know not what they do.

[Nickyan]

In an actual arcade environment, this makes a lot of sense, but at home, this usually boils down to grinding through the first couple of stages over and over until you git gud enough to make progress and see it through the end, aiming for a high score along the way.

Yeah, as people in this thread have said it's a niche genre. More games having polished "story mode" might bring more people and awareness to the genre. The game as an experience loses its tempo if you're constantly stuck on first levels or using continues.

That being said, for most of us, the games are probably more about high score or completion in one sitting. When aiming for these goals, grinding stages over and over is what the game is all about. Hence a competitive game mode tends to be game's focus and honestly any shmup worth their salt has to include one.

[Elixir]

There's nothing wrong, I'm just wondering aloud why it came to be that shmups = arcade, platformers = console.

Because nobody plays platformers for score, or survival for that matter...

Platformers really have no competitive edge unless speedrunning is introduced, which doesn't fit into an arcade environment because of how repetitive it is.

[Rastan78]

I assume you just mean straight platformers like Mario and Sonic? There are plenty of arcade action platformers that are cool when played for score.

The original Shinobi comes to mind where going for all the bonuses make the game play in a very different way. Pretty intricate game when played for score especially compared to many shmups of the same era.

[davyK]

These are arcade games at heart - it's very much part of the genre. I tend to play in score attack mode more often to prevent me from credit feeding but arcade mode should remain the default. It allows you to credit feed which is the old school original way of practicing for 1CCs.

All a shmup needs is arcade mode, score attack mode for online leaderboards (which can be replicated in arcade mode as well by blocking high score saving unless at default settings, but is usually kept separate) and a good practice mode allowing level and boss select. I would like to see a single level score attack option (e.g. Raiden III) more often though as it lets players of lesser skills to enjoy later levels in a different way.

Shmups are short games - 5 to 7 levels. Their intensity dictates that since the level of concentration requires demands a 20-30min run time. To change that fundamentally changes the genre.

Shmups have multiple modes built in to their very fabric - survival play, score play, character selection and option/weaponset selection. So even a shorter 5 level shmup has a pile of replay value built in.

If shmups were to be accepted by mainstream gamers they would need to be a lot longer and have a campaign mode with many levels being of a set piece nature. The game would also become a straight survival game - but one that only requires time to eventually defeat by using die-restore-retry-repeat loops which is the mainstay of modern adventure games and FPS campaign modes. Our idea of beating a game wouldn't exist in that type of game and I would see interesting scoring schemes becoming a casualty too.

Now maybe there is room for that (and in theory such a game could have an arcade/score attack mode), but it shouldn't replace the classic shmup setup.

[Despatche]

Mind, platformers very much were an arcade genre. SMB1 is basically an arcade game, and that's why Vs. SMB exists. Sega wanted real hard to make an arcade Sonic, whether that was some quick and dirty port of the regular games, or the incredible SegaSonic.

......Who lives that sad life?

Right?

Forgive them; for they know not what they do.

Motherfuckin' right?

[davyK]

SMB1 and Lost Levels have score chasing elements to them. This was dropped as the series progressed but the early games can be played for score or survival.

The coin collecting give lives so are a survival play thing and can be ignored for score.

Combing enemies with shells builds up the score (and can also end up granting 1ups if you combo long enough)
Dealing with turtles by taking off the shells first gives more points.
Time left at end of level give pts so there is a trade off between time and combo-ing enemies.
The flagpole height awards points and the timer value when you hit the pole award a fireworks bonus that can be optimised for score.

Not super deep and it's under-mined by milking opportunities in a couple of places by suiciding and then getting 1ups...but maybe the arcade versions fixed those.

[Sumez]

SMB1 does indeed have strong arcade roots, but how arcade it really feels is a matter of perspective, as you can easily spot tendencies targeting the "home" experience.
The scoring is pretty broken as it is, and you need a lot of self imposed rules to have a really functional scoring competition in it.
Of course, that goes for quite a few actual arcade games as well, but on older consoles like the NES, it was probably the rule more often than the exception, simply because the games weren't designed to appeal to that mindset. Castlevania and Contra feel a lot more like arcade games to me than Mario does, and score definitely means nothing in those games.

[MathU]

Some of the Wonder Boy/Adventure Island platformers have strict enough mechanics that they're fun to play for score. In fact a lot of the issues with score play in platformers actually have some fairly simple solutions. A large remaining-time bonus and a score penalty/bonus related to player death are enough to get around some of the score issues in games with player-controlled scrolling and respawning enemies. Both Super Mario Bros. and Castlevania could work for score if they had simply made the end-level timer bonus large enough to discourage enemy milking. In The Hunt, Gunforce II, and Metal Slug games have a similar problem with waiting out the timer to milk spawning enemies, but Metal Slug at least got around the issue of using up lives to milk the most lucrative areas (let's pretend the major exploits in MS1 and MS5 don't exist) by providing a large end-stage bonus for captured prisoners, which you lose if you die at all. Castlevania already provides an incentive not to die with the remaining hearts bonus, and something similar would have been enough for Mario.

[Sumez]

Oh yeah, I agree most of the issues are "easily" fixable. Hence the thing about self imposed rules.

Honestly, a lot of games with broken scoring systems would be fixed simply by not awarding a score for killing anything that respawns, and/or less readily available 1UPs (SMB1's 1-2 and 8-2 can be replayed indefinitely with no consequence). Castlevania would also need a few more strict changes (such as not being able to go back to prior rooms).
Milking high scoring locations with remaining time/lives can be good if it's handled well, but it really depends on the individual game design. In Donkey Kong, milking barrels for points is super risky, and getting the maximum potential out of it takes actual skill. In the same game, jumping next to kong on the rivet stages is boring and terrible, and the setup for it requires some amount of luck.

Leftover time bonus can be a double edged sword, because you also risk the primary scoring trick of the game being beating stages as fast as possible - which can be good, but you might not want to forego other potentially fun systems.
The primary reason scoring systems in shooters often are more rock solid (barring certain oversights) can definitely be credited to the fact that the player is unable to control the pace of the game.

[BrianC]

While probably still broken for scoring. Vs. SMB did remove many (but not all) of the 1ups from the original SMB, so there are less places where they can be farmed, if any are still there. Come to think of it, Vs. SMB and SMB2J did make strides towards making the game more arcade like and even add a score bonus at the end of the game.

[Squire Grooktook]

I simply can't devote as much time to gaming as I could when I was a carefree teen and I get discouraged having to put in the time required to see all the content the game has to offer.

Having low free time was one of the reasons why I got into arcade shmups. Once I started college I needed something where I could put only 20 minutes in and still walk away feeling like I had a meaningful gameplay experience.

[MathU]

Arcade games are my procrastination vice because I don't feel as guilty investing time into them as I do with longer games that have persistent progress.

[Gamer707b]

I'm starting to believe this format has run it's course

Not for me.

Also not really sure what the significance of what the default mode is? Just highlight the mode you like and hit select.

I'm open to seeing more shmups designed completely around a hub world or clearing a larger array of bite sized content over time, but personally I think action platformers on console have always been a better fit for this format.

I do agree that today a shmup that releases without practice mode or extra challenge features is not really complete. Of course if it's a port running via emulation then save states will get the job done.

Also, like most people, I'm very busy with work, family etc. and I find arcade style games are the only ones I can play. If a game only take 25 mins to 1cc I can grind that game for 1cc or score over time and gradually improve by playing small amounts whenever I can. I still find that process very satisfying, whereas playing a game with a 40 hour campaign mode in 20 min chunks every few days does not sound fun.

This. Besides Nintendo games, which are pick up and play, the only other kind of games I can play or have attention to these days are arcade style. Love to play a few credits and come back to it later. Playing a 40-50 game now, seems like pulling teeth to me.

[davyK]

While probably still broken for scoring. Vs. SMB did remove many (but not all) of the 1ups from the original SMB, so there are less places where they can be farmed, if any are still there. Come to think of it, Vs. SMB and SMB2J did make strides towards making the game more arcade like and even add a score bonus at the end of the game.

I like the sound of that actually. I used to enjoy playing SMB1 for score but I had to impose a non-1up milking rule on myself.

[XoPachi]

because nobody plays platformers for score

I know we're massively off topic as it is, but I do wonder what a platformer with scoring akin to Raizing/Cave/Capcom shooting would look like actually. Like a home platformer. I imagine something like that would have to be combat oriented. I bet that would be fun.
Closest I think I've played is Mighty Gunvolt Burst.

[finisherr]

What does the year have anything to do with it?