It looks like a new GC HDMI solution is on the horizon following behind the N64 Digital. Based on the comments on the above tweet, it looks like this will address various shortcomings of the existing GCDual solution. Similar to N64Digital, it will have a similar form factor so it can be swapped in to an existing GC with the GCDual installed. Additionally, it appears that this will be compatible with the Wii on some time horizon.
I am having trouble finding modders to keep up on all of these installs. They are all backlogged due to the heightened demand.
What would be some of the GCDual shortcomings that this might address?
I've been pretty happy with my WiiDual (which uses GCVideo too), though admittedly I've hardly used it in its "intended" way, basically only to get digital audio from the HDMI, but still using analogue video on a CRT without problems.
Is there really much of a market for internal HDMI mods for GameCube? I would have thought the plug-and-play solutions would have completely killed that market off. Even the consoles without the digital port can replace their analog port with a digital port with less difficulty than the HDMI mod, AFAIK.
Guspaz wrote:Is there really much of a market for internal HDMI mods for GameCube? I would have thought the plug-and-play solutions would have completely killed that market off. Even the consoles without the digital port can replace their analog port with a digital port with less difficulty than the HDMI mod, AFAIK.
The Wii, of course, is another story.
I'm a huge fan of my Carby Dongle and recommend them to all my customers despite being able to make more money on gcdual installs.
That said, a GCDigital in the same vain as PS1 and DC mods, would be great since the GCVideo chip in GCDual and Carby are the same; only allowing native 480p max.
It blows my mind how many installers I still see on Twitter posting install pics of the internal Gamecube HDMI mods and I'm like, why? Wouldn't you just get a Carby and be good? I mean, unless one comes out that's like the PS1 Digital or DC that actual scales it to 1080p. I just don't understand. LOL!
Most TVs these days scale 480p like absolute dogshit. My TV accepts 960p from the OSSC (thankfully), but even the small jump between 960 and 1080 in the TV leaves me with a softer result than I'd prefer
now if a scaler comes along that offers 0-lag line doubling of 480p to 960p in a 1080p frame like the digital mods do, then it would be a different value proposition
TooBeaucoup wrote:It blows my mind how many installers I still see on Twitter posting install pics of the internal Gamecube HDMI mods and I'm like, why? Wouldn't you just get a Carby and be good? I mean, unless one comes out that's like the PS1 Digital or DC that actual scales it to 1080p. I just don't understand. LOL!
I'm one of those, and it's because customers want the internal mods for some reason.
I always recommend a Carby, but a lot of folks don't like the idea of a dongle sticking out the back that could put stress on the jack.
I use an Extron DSC 301 HD to present the OSSC’s 960p within a 1080p frame.
Certainly not as elegant of a solution as the GCDigital would provide. On top of that, it’s not as if all GC games actually output 640x480p, so having access to the pixel clock for proper scaling will be a great improvement.
TooBeaucoup wrote:It blows my mind how many installers I still see on Twitter posting install pics of the internal Gamecube HDMI mods and I'm like, why? Wouldn't you just get a Carby and be good? I mean, unless one comes out that's like the PS1 Digital or DC that actual scales it to 1080p. I just don't understand. LOL!
I'm one of those, and it's because customers want the internal mods for some reason.
I always recommend a Carby, but a lot of folks don't like the idea of a dongle sticking out the back that could put stress on the jack.
$70 carby
vs
$120 GCDual + $100 install
.... for the same output quality.
I've heard people make the argument about stress on the port, which has always been funny to me because the official Nintendo component cables are probably heavier than the Carby and a little HDMI cable. Those component cables are beefy.
bahamutfan64 wrote:I use an Extron DSC 301 HD to present the OSSC’s 960p within a 1080p frame.
Certainly not as elegant of a solution as the GCDigital would provide. On top of that, it’s not as if all GC games actually output 640x480p, so having access to the pixel clock for proper scaling will be a great improvement.
that's a very nice scaler but it does add a frame of lag
Luckily I don’t really play anything that requires twitch reflexes (nor am I that sensitive to the lag), but yeah a more integrated solution would be ideal.
Last edited by bahamutfan64 on Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Most TVs these days scale 480p like absolute dogshit. My TV accepts 960p from the OSSC (thankfully), but even the small jump between 960 and 1080 in the TV leaves me with a softer result than I'd prefer
now if a scaler comes along that offers 0-lag line doubling of 480p to 960p in a 1080p frame like the digital mods do, then it would be a different value proposition
^^
This right here is the only possible reason I could see someone going for something like this instead of a plug and play Carby (or open source competitor) HDMI solution. But even then, cant an OSSC accomplish this same functionality?
Most TVs these days scale 480p like absolute dogshit. My TV accepts 960p from the OSSC (thankfully), but even the small jump between 960 and 1080 in the TV leaves me with a softer result than I'd prefer
now if a scaler comes along that offers 0-lag line doubling of 480p to 960p in a 1080p frame like the digital mods do, then it would be a different value proposition
^^
This right here is the only possible reason I could see someone going for something like this instead of a plug and play Carby (or open source competitor) HDMI solution. But even then, cant an OSSC accomplish this same functionality?
The OSSC, no. It can't do 960p in a 1080p window. Seems like a lot of scalers are on the way that will, though.
The Carby beats on price, but the GCHDMI is a better all-in-one solution if money is not part of the consideration. I appreciate the elegance of a more standard miniHDMI port built into the console directly, as well as the ability to use the console controller to navigate the GCVideo HUD instead of yet-another-IR-remote to go in the bin of generic cheap IR remotes for various open projects.
This is easy for me to say though because I self-install, so I don't have to worry about installation and shipping costs.
darcagn wrote:The Carby beats on price, but the GCHDMI is a better all-in-one solution if money is not part of the consideration. I appreciate the elegance of a more standard miniHDMI port built into the console directly, as well as the ability to use the console controller to navigate the GCVideo HUD instead of yet-another-IR-remote to go in the bin of generic cheap IR remotes for various open projects.
This is easy for me to say though because I self-install, so I don't have to worry about installation and shipping costs.
100% valid opinion and not to downplay it at all. As an installer myself, I still rock a Carby in my personal Gamecubes.
The IR remote is actually handled by my Harmony One remote and hub, so an easy work around for those that have that setup.
That said, I'll be installing a GCDigital kit into my Orange Gamecube once they are released. I'll keep my carby back for my launch night Black model.
strygo wrote:From a technical perspective, is there anything preventing the creation of an external GCDigital with the enhanced scaling features?
Capturing digital video and scaling it is possible externally, but other features typical of the *Digital kits might not be possible, like controlling the HUD with a controller, or resetting the console, or controlling the console's clock like the PS1Digital does, etc.
But if all you cared about was scaled video you might as well just get a Carby and feed it to an HDMI scaler
I think the question was more intended to say, is there any reason why something like a Carby couldn't scale to 1080p directly. And I'd imagine the answer is "It could, but it'd cost more."
Perhaps my response was vague, but that's exactly what I meant -- by "capturing digital video and scaling" I mean it's possible to capture the GameCube's internal digital video format and scale it, i.e. what a Carby does but with scaling, just via external connector with no internal connections required.
But besides that, the *Digital products typically do things that would require internal connections.
strygo wrote:From a technical perspective, is there anything preventing the creation of an external GCDigital with the enhanced scaling features?
I don’t think that would make much sense because if you are developing an external scaler for the GameCube which could line double 480p you may as well make it compatible with a range of devices (which appears to be exactly what they’re making).
strygo wrote:From a technical perspective, is there anything preventing the creation of an external GCDigital with the enhanced scaling features?
I don’t think that would make much sense because if you are developing an external scaler for the GameCube which could line double 480p you may as well make it compatible with a range of devices (which appears to be exactly what they’re making).
Multiple scalers with HDMI inputs on the way, so yeah I'd say a Carby plus an upscaler would be the better investment- may very well be people solely interested in GameCube though.
Kez wrote:
The OSSC, no. It can't do 960p in a 1080p window. Seems like a lot of scalers are on the way that will, though.
Hmm. Thats news to me. People have been telling me it can do 720p with 2/1 scan/blankline ratio in a 768p frame, so I find it very odd it cant do 960p in a 1080p window. Whats the limitation there, if you know?
Kez wrote:
People have been telling me it can do 720p with 2/1 scan/blankline ratio in a 768p frame, so I find it very odd it cant do 960p in a 1080p window.
darcagn wrote:or controlling the console's clock like the PS1Digital does
Why would you want to do anything to the Gamecube's clock? It uses the same 54.000MHz base clock for both PAL and NTSC consoles. Or did you mean automatic DST adjustment for the internal RTC? ;)
Guspaz wrote:I think the question was more intended to say, is there any reason why something like a Carby couldn't scale to 1080p directly. And I'd imagine the answer is "It could, but it'd cost more."
Indeed. GCVideo was designed to be a cost-minimal solution and since it looks like you can get something running it for 40 USD or less on Aliexpress, that goal was clearly met. You could easily throw more resources at the problem to integrate a scaler and adapt a higher-bandwidth digital output that can reach 1080p (or maybe even 2160p 4:2:0 if you're nuts) if you want more than 480p (or 720x960p) and don't mind the costs.
TooBeaucoup wrote:It blows my mind how many installers I still see on Twitter posting install pics of the internal Gamecube HDMI mods and I'm like, why? Wouldn't you just get a Carby and be good? I mean, unless one comes out that's like the PS1 Digital or DC that actual scales it to 1080p. I just don't understand. LOL!
I'm one of those, and it's because customers want the internal mods for some reason.
I always recommend a Carby, but a lot of folks don't like the idea of a dongle sticking out the back that could put stress on the jack.
$70 carby
vs
$120 GCDual + $100 install
.... for the same output quality.
I've heard people make the argument about stress on the port, which has always been funny to me because the official Nintendo component cables are probably heavier than the Carby and a little HDMI cable. Those component cables are beefy.
It’s about a longer rigid protrusion once you total up the length of the Carby and the rigid part of the HDMI cable, the strain-relief, and some portion of the cable before it has enough distance from the rigid bits to deflect external forces. All that creates disproportionate leverage on the port compared to the weight of the cable. With a bit of leverage even a small bump could accidentally wrench the port. I’d specifically look for a low-profile HDMI cable if I used one.
It’s probably why HD Retrovision SNES cables are designed the way they are without cramming all the electronics into a bigger plug.
Last edited by CZroe on Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:00 pm, edited 9 times in total.
darcagn wrote:
Capturing digital video and scaling it is possible externally, but other features typical of the *Digital kits might not be possible, like controlling the HUD with a controller, or resetting the console, or controlling the console's clock like the PS1Digital does, etc.
But if all you cared about was scaled video you might as well just get a Carby and feed it to an HDMI scaler
I’d forgotten about the controller access - that’s a notable feature. I was mostly curious as to whether the signals over the digital out were complete enough to handle proper scaling of different resolutions.
Josh128 wrote:
Hmm. Thats news to me. People have been telling me it can do 720p with 2/1 scan/blankline ratio in a 768p frame, so I find it very odd it cant do 960p in a 1080p window. Whats the limitation there, if you know?
Because 480i/p is 525 lines, so when doubled 1050, which naturally is less than minimum required to create a 1080 line window + minimal porch and sync.
720p is created from a 240p source, typically 263 lines which when linetripled is 789, which is ample amount for 768 line window + porches & sync.
Unseen wrote:Why would you want to do anything to the Gamecube's clock?
I think they mean being able to tap the original digital buffer (say, 608x448p) and use integer scaling on that to go up to 1080p, as opposed to using whatever the external output resolution would be (say 640x480).
There's not much point integer scaling the Gamecube, it's a 3D console that uses chroma subsampling to begin with. Stuff like GBI would be the exception, but people are already doing integer scaling with that on the OSSC using special timings.
Those component cables are beefy.
