X2 and the PAL equation...

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Mon May 22, 2006 4:46 am

I'm not really sure just where this goes since it's partly about a shmup, and partly about system hardware, but I have a potentially simple question.

I've always wandered whatever happened to a game called X2. I remember ads about it in the back of various game magazines many moons ago, but I never saw anything on it beyond that. The other day, the game popped into my head again, and I managed to find some info on it. I know that Ocean released the UK version, and that apparently Capcom released a slightly altered version for the Japanese market. I also know that PAL games on NTSC systems (and vice versa) can be a real crap shoot at times when dealing with the 8-bit and 16-bit machines. However, I'm wondering how a PAL Playstation game would run on an NTSC Playstation system (US of course).

I ask this because typically the UK version of a game is cheaper than the Japanese release, and somehow I have the feeling the Japanese version of X2 would be considerably more expensive. I've read enough up and down reviews to know that the game intrigues me, but I'd like to get some insight on whether or not a PAL PS1 game will play on a NTSC PS1 system.

Thanks in advance to anyone in the know.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon May 22, 2006 4:50 am

I haven't tried any PAL games on my PS1, but I have done so on my Saturn...with an Action Replay to enable me to play imports, the game in question (Guardian Heroes) will play normally for the most part, but there's an area at the bottom of the screen in which the image is messed up. It's not unplayable, but it is rather annoying. I don't know how much different the case would be with different games/systems, but I figured I might as well toss this experience out there in hopes that it'll contribute something, heh heh.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Mon May 22, 2006 4:59 am

If your system has a modchip, or you have some kind of swap disc program the game will work but you need to be in Europe. The reason for this is that all games are black and white through all connections except RGB Scart. SCART is only available on European TV's.

The saturn works on a completely different philosophy.

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Mon May 22, 2006 5:33 am

first of all, don´t confuse X2 and Project X2. The first is a relatively new PC game, the other one is an about 10 years old Playstation game.
Secondly, the jp. version of Project X2 was released after the pal version (it´s a euro-developed game), and the gameplay got tweaked in the process. The pal version features way too weak weapons, you just can´t destroy anything with them, the jp version had that remedied slightly.
Both are not really great, but the jp is still way better than the pal version - I´ve had both over time, but eventually sold both as well.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Mon May 22, 2006 7:56 am

Moved to Shmups Chat.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Mon May 22, 2006 8:11 am

Huh.

So I could get the PAL version, but it would be entirely in black and white. Figures, since that's the only version I could find anywhere. Guess I'll have to keep an eye out for the Japanese version then.

Thanks for the info.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Mon May 22, 2006 8:46 am

Japanese version is $60+ for a mint copy with spinecard I think.

Yes, using RCA, svideo or component video cables with a PAL game will result in a B/W image. This is because the game is forced to output PAL but your machines demodulator is NTSC.

RGB bypasses this part of the machine and European TV's are PAL/NTSC compatible anyways. (most of the time).

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Mon May 22, 2006 9:51 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:If your system has a modchip, or you have some kind of swap disc program the game will work but you need to be in Europe. The reason for this is that all games are black and white through all connections except RGB Scart. SCART is only available on European TV's.

The saturn works on a completely different philosophy.

Wrong. You're mixing up a few things here. I doubt an NTSC machine would spit out a B/W picture because the game is PAL. It'd be the same on the Saturn anyway.

And if the TV (in Europe) was PAL/NTSC compatible, it would NOT put out a B/W picture. That would only happen if it was NOT PAL/NTSC compatible. And RGB-Scart would negate all this colour coding thing anyway. The only thing the European TV has to support is 60Hz and RGB or NTSC colour coding. Most of the time the TV will support it all.

SCART is also available in Australia and in Japan, albeit with a slightly different pinout in the latter country.

To display a PAL image on an American TV one would, in theory, need an HDTV as our resolution is slightly higher than the one used in NTSC territories. In practice I don't know if it works because I don't think American HDTVs like to display that particular resolution. People who have played PAL games with 60Hz options (like Shenmue) have found their way through the menu with rolling images on screen until they've switched 60Hz on.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:09 am

Your wrong,

The PS1 games TV system is controlled by the disc/game, not the system.

If you put a PAL game in a PAL system or an NTSC system, it will display in PAL.. And since the NTSC system has a NTSC demodulator in it, it will display in B/W. Unless of course, you output via the AV output via an RGB signal.

With every other system pre Dreamcast, its the system which controls the output.. so if you can get a PAL game working on a NTSC machine, it will output in NTSC anyways. This causes problems though, since the image is sometimes stretched. Hence the guardian heroes Saturn example stated above. This is because the PAL version was optimized, so playing it in NTSC stretches an already stretched image.

Since the Dreamcast, most consoles have built in options to control the hz and/or video system.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:11 pm

Two things

1 - The name of the game is X2 indeed , not "Project X2". Yes, it's a sequel to Project X, and in some part of the intro, it shows the word "Project X2", but I think that's just to point out the game is a sequel. The name in the cover, title screen, Team17's site and everywhere else is "X2"

2 - I know shit about PAL/NTSC encoding and anything, but I do have a modded PS1 , and a few Pal games. (Time Crisis and Buster Bros. Collection, to name a few). Those PAL games are in Black and White in my bedroom's TV, and in colour if I play in my Living Room TV. In both TVs I plug the console in the same way (A/V plug). So I believe some TVs will be able to show the game properly, and others won't.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:24 pm

Shatterhand wrote:Two things

1 - The name of the game is X2 indeed , not "Project X2". Yes, it's a sequel to Project X, and in some part of the intro, it shows the word "Project X2", but I think that's just to point out the game is a sequel. The name in the cover, title screen, Team17's site and everywhere else is "X2"

2 - I know shit about PAL/NTSC encoding and anything, but I do have a modded PS1 , and a few Pal games. (Time Crisis and Buster Bros. Collection, to name a few). Those PAL games are in Black and White in my bedroom's TV, and in colour if I play in my Living Room TV. In both TVs I plug the console in the same way (A/V plug). So I believe some TVs will be able to show the game properly, and others won't.

Same here - my modded megadrive with scart does great on my tv but blac&white on the kitchen tv. Some tv are true multistandard - while others are fake: they can run PAL 50 or PAL 60 hz but cannot read the NTSC signal - I supposed it's just viceversa in the USA. You should really be sure about this before buying a tv.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Mon May 22, 2006 6:41 pm

What about Zero Wing and Alien Solder? I have the PAL version of those games, and they play on my unmodded US Genesis system in full color and sound. Does the Genesis handle things differently when dealing with PAL, does that mean my TV is able to handle the differences, or does that mean the PAL versions of those games aren't properly optimized for PAL?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:46 pm

Shatterhand wrote:The name of the game is X2 indeed , not "Project X2". Yes, it's a sequel to Project X, and in some part of the intro, it shows the word "Project X2", but I think that's just to point out the game is a sequel. The name in the cover, title screen, Team17's site and everywhere else is "X2"

"X2: No Relief" to be specific.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:52 pm

The Coop wrote:What about Zero Wing and Alien Solder? I have the PAL version of those games, and they play on my unmodded US Genesis system in full color and sound. Does the Genesis handle things differently when dealing with PAL, does that mean my TV is able to handle the differences, or does that mean the PAL versions of those games aren't properly optimized for PAL?

Do you use RGB scart cable for both Genesis and PSone? If so, I'd say that if you see Alien Soldier in full color, so you should with X2. It's just an assumption based on my own experience. My kitchen tv gets black & white both systems.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:41 am

Turrican wrote:
The Coop wrote:What about Zero Wing and Alien Solder? I have the PAL version of those games, and they play on my unmodded US Genesis system in full color and sound. Does the Genesis handle things differently when dealing with PAL, does that mean my TV is able to handle the differences, or does that mean the PAL versions of those games aren't properly optimized for PAL?
Do you use RGB scart cable for both Genesis and PSone? If so, I'd say that if you see Alien Soldier in full color, so you should with X2. It's just an assumption based on my own experience. My kitchen tv gets black & white both systems.

Well, I have an RGB plug on the back of my old Genesis unit (it came with my 32X so it could be hooked up to old Genesis systems). The cable it's on has the RGB plug on one end, with the AV plugs I use that to hook it up to my TV on the other end (Yellow for the image, White for the sound). So I'm assuming that the answer would be "yes" for my Genesis.

Now, my Playstation (the Dual Shock model... not a PSOne), it uses the funky plug that came with it. It hooks up to the back on the "AV In/Out" plug, and goes out to the typical Yellow (Video), White and Red (Left/Right audio) AV plugs. There is no RGB specific plug on the back like the old Genesis and Master System have. So to be honest, I don't know for my PS1.

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:05 am

The Coop wrote:What about Zero Wing and Alien Solder? I have the PAL version of those games, and they play on my unmodded US Genesis system in full color and sound. Does the Genesis handle things differently when dealing with PAL, does that mean my TV is able to handle the differences, or does that mean the PAL versions of those games aren't properly optimized for PAL?

How the heck can you play PAL Alien Soldier on USA Genesis without mod or bypass? It has territory lockout, so I hope you left out you use a converter cartridge otherwise you're out of luck.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:12 am

The Coop wrote:Now, my Playstation (the Dual Shock model... not a PSOne), it uses the funky plug that came with it. It hooks up to the back on the "AV In/Out" plug, and goes out to the typical Yellow (Video), White and Red (Left/Right audio) AV plugs. There is no RGB specific plug on the back like the old Genesis and Master System have. So to be honest, I don't know for my PS1.

You need to change that one - when I brought my Playstation to be modified, the price included a scart cable. Using the standard one which came with the system would mean play imports in black & white.

Limbrooke wrote:How the heck can you play PAL Alien Soldier on USA Genesis without mod or bypass? It has territory lockout, so I hope you left out you use a converter cartridge otherwise you're out of luck.

I was wondering as well, to be honest.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:13 am

Limbrooke wrote:
The Coop wrote:What about Zero Wing and Alien Solder? I have the PAL version of those games, and they play on my unmodded US Genesis system in full color and sound. Does the Genesis handle things differently when dealing with PAL, does that mean my TV is able to handle the differences, or does that mean the PAL versions of those games aren't properly optimized for PAL?
How the heck can you play PAL Alien Soldier on USA Genesis without mod or bypass? It has territory lockout, so I hope you left out you use a converter cartridge otherwise you're out of luck.

Game Genie my good man. Three quick code lines, and it's playable.

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:17 am

The Coop wrote:Game Genie my good man. Three quick code lines, and it's playable.

Either that or an AR. It never hurts to confirm.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:03 am

Turrican wrote:
The Coop wrote:Now, my Playstation (the Dual Shock model... not a PSOne), it uses the funky plug that came with it. It hooks up to the back on the "AV In/Out" plug, and goes out to the typical Yellow (Video), White and Red (Left/Right audio) AV plugs. There is no RGB specific plug on the back like the old Genesis and Master System have. So to be honest, I don't know for my PS1.
You need to change that one - when I brought my Playstation to be modified, the price included a scart cable. Using the standard one which came with the system would mean play imports in black & white.

Nuts.

Well, thanks everyone for confiming what would happen if I went with the PAL version.

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Sun May 28, 2006 8:48 pm

neorichieb1971 wrote:Your wrong,

"My" wrong? Nice grammar. You are looking for "you're".

I may have been wrong with regards to the PSX and black/white but there are a lot of other points where you were mistaken, like with regards to RGB, Europe and TVs over here.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Sun May 28, 2006 11:50 pm

I lived in England and imported consoles over there from the USA and Japan. I was the technical consultant in the business. Unless some special cartridge or mod has been done to a PS1, PAL games will play 50hz on both PAL and NTSC consoles and 60hz games will play 60hz on PAL and NTSC consoles.

Neither are cross compatible unless your using an RGB connection.

We had RGB TV's and ALL games worked fine from the PS1 with a modchip.

However, it was impossible to get our multisystem TV from Hong Kong to display in colour when using Svideo/composite connections whilst playing a PAL game in an NTSC console. The same happened when we played an NTSC game in a PAL console.

This is how it worked on my own Sony Trinitron as well, which was a UK bought TV with SCART sockets. Obviously it worked through SCART, but came out B/W through the other connections.

I am talking from personal experience with a wide range of TV's and consoles. I am not doubting you might get different results, I am just telling you the results I am getting.

As far as the grammar, its a forum not a English class. But You're right

Spartacus · Post by **Spartacus** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:50 pm

Well, first of all let me say Hello to all. Long time reader, first time poster as they say.

I think might be able to help you some because I bought both the PAL and Japanese versions 6 months ago in order to play the game. The PAL version of X2 No Relief is relativley easy to find under $10 and I bought that first hoping I might be able to play it. My modded PS1 didn't have a problem with it being PAL, but my US TV had major problems ie: black and white picture, y position off and a terrible rolling screen as it couldn't synch with the 50hz signal. Tried picking up an inexpensive PAL to NTSC signal converter and it did fix the color and y positioning but does not convert the 50hz signal to 60hz and did nothing for the rolling. Some TV's (mostly the older ones) have a manual vertical hold knob that might have fixed the roll for me, but mine is too new for that. So I decided to buy the Japanese version. Saw new one listed on Ebay from Japan for $89, but I picked up a used complete one for $29 on Ebay from a US seller. That one works perfectly, of course.
I enjoy playing X2 No Relief and thought it really showed off what the PlayStation was capable of graphics wise. Hope you find yourself a copy. I think you'll like it.

theevilfunkster · Post by **theevilfunkster** » Mon May 29, 2006 10:35 pm

Tried my PAL version last night on my PAL PStwo and all the menu text was completely messed up.