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Whats it gonna Be??
An exciting return to the series after a 30 year hiatus 54%  54%  [ 7 ]
Another Soundtrack CD 46%  46%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 13
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:38 am 


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BrianC wrote:
Curious what the Mega Turrican DC has to offer, as well, since it feels more polished and complete compared to Super Turrican.

I think I read somewhere that all it does is restore the secret level from the MD version as a regular level like in the Amiga version of T3.


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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:14 am 


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After receiving an email saying ShopTo couldn’t deliver due to ‘European supply issues’ (it’s started already!), I picked it up digitally because god know when the Anthology I’ve ordered will turn up.

So really, by any measurable definition, Turrican isn’t a great game. It’s not offensively bad, but there are just too many little problems and aggravations to make it a AAA title, even back in the day. I can only assume (as was the case for me), that when people went ballistic over it, they’d simply never played a top-tier console title. Scrolling is terrible at framing your character, there’s never quite enough visibility in any direction, little in the way of scenery to orient yourself against at times, and exploring requires way too many leaps of faith. Obviously I’ve played it back in the day, so I knew there was no knockback or collisions, with enemies, but what I had forgotten however is just how offensively quickly even the most minor baddie can drain a full energy bar. To combat this, the areas are littered with energy refill capsules, and 1-ups galore – I’d racked up 16 lives by the end of the first world without even trying. Other than the lightening, the extra weapons are pretty much useless – I mostly forgot about them until boss fights, at which point you can unload the lot and finish them before they even get started. So, a complete washout then? Well… no, not really. For some weird reason, the mix or exploration and shooting is still good fun, and it’s clear that, Gunlord aside, there hasn’t really been anything quite like it since it was released. I can’t justify it in any way, but I still really enjoy playing it, simple as.

The sequel though…. I can’t wait to see those glorious colour-banded skies, and listen to that Huelsbeck soundtrack again.

I’m a bit ambivalent about the third, all I reallt remember is that I thought it was trying too hard to be a console title, and had lost some identity as a result.

What is a success however, is the front end. Fully configurable controls, various options for tweaking sound levels, and the best implementation of a CRT effect I’ve seen yet.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:13 pm 


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Yuck, it does get worse the further you get though.
World 1 & 2 are good fun. World 3 is a crappy maze with precious little action. World 4 is a shitty longer maze, at which point I was so fed up aI just muscled through due to sheer number of lives. I'm kind of worried about starting 2 now......
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:54 am 


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it's cool to hear that emulation is fine, but let's be honest here: this was mishandled and sucks balls. Hard.

I mean... after some 25 years they get to publish Turrican again. They opt for a retro compilation, that comes in two volumes for the completionists, and one entirely different compilation for the mainstream guy out there. The "Flashback" one on PSN right now has near to zero interest to anyone who has got an emulator device since late nineties, it's still expensive for what it offers, and will probably hamper the sales of the forthcoming "Anthologies".

The Anthologies should have all the meat and substance, chiefly the soundtrack mix mode to play the games with the new in-studio versions of the tracks. But it's in physical frozen hell by a notorious slooooooooooow publisher, Strictly Limited, and producing all the shenanigans like pvc statuines, vinyl records, fake 16bit cartridges might well mean that people won't get the Anthologies until autumn or winter. By that time I presume even the most ardent fans will just get the "Flashback" digitally for a couple bucks.

I mean... What the hell.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:31 am 


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Marc wrote:
I can only assume (as was the case for me), that when people went ballistic over it, they’d simply never played a top-tier console title.


Aren't we getting a little too rose-tinted with consoles? Here's the 1988-1990 Sega lineup. Nothing strikes terribly like a Turrican competitor. A precious few great action titles (Kujaku-oh 2, Super Shinobi), but very little in the way of combining shooting action and freeroaming exploration... Shiten-Myooh and Alex Kidd hardly compare.

The NEC side of things (up to 8/90) doesn't appear any brighter, really. Legendary Axe and Bonk are cool, but again very different games. Atomic Robo-Kid deserves mention.

Amiga Turrican is reviewed in German magazine Joker in May 1990, and between June and August is reviewed pretty much in all Europe.

Months later, the Super Famicom would set the (exploration) bar high with Super Mario World (November 1990 in Japan), but only for very early adopters. I guess we all remember the "Neo-Geo-like status" of the early import SFC scene, before the console became a reality for the mainstream European gamer, roughly in 1992 (!).

Well, I suppose an (hypotethical, really) Famicom/NES conoisseur could have found some decent alternatives to Turrican before 1990. Again, provided he/she didn't live in Europe, because some of the best titles the system had to offer early on were also in the infamous non-optimized batch, and therefore quite a mess on PAL 50hz.

Bottom line in summer 1990 Rainbow Arts dominated Europe, managing to have the action shooting and exploration on widely spread home computer / micro computer systems like c64 and Amiga, in a way that Master System didn't match due to extremely limited lineup, NES didn't match due to extremely poor localization effort of its strongest (but obscure) offerings. Megadrive was positioned right but wouldn't offer anything similar, ditto for SNES that wasn't even a reality yet.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:12 am 


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Turrican wrote:
people won't get the Anthologies until autumn or winter.


I've never understood this complaint. Yes, it takes longer to get your hands on the game if you go down the Limited Run Games/Strictly Limited/etc. route. This should be absolutely obvious to anyone and they say this in big, bold letters on the store page informing you of this. You accept it when buying the product.

But I don't buy games physically in order to get to play them as fast as possible - I buy them physically so I can play them later, way down the line. Like, 10 or 20 years and more down the line, after the digital store's servers have been long shut down. That's the trade-off - you don't get to play the games as quickly, but you're covered in the future. For someone like me, who has on occasion taken a literal decade after buying a game before actually playing it, this is a good thing.

I have more than enough backlog to play that I'm not bothered by the fact that I don't get to play newest games right away. If anything, I'd prefer it if the physical versions came out even longer after the initial digital release - that way the physical version will have all the patches included, maybe the DLC too, and so can be considered the definitive version. I was quite content when the Panzer Dragoon remake on Switch was delayed, because it meant the important 1.3 patch could be included in the cart. This would also avoid situations like with Dead Cells, which I believe has three different physical releases out there, each successive release adding in more DLC.

And sometimes I luck out. There have been a few cases where I've bought the game physically, and later it has been available on eShop at a heavy discount - like at 90%, bringing the price down to a whooping €0.99. At that price point I don't mind double-dipping, giving me the best of both worlds.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:08 am 


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Ghegs, all what you write is surely something each of us approve whenever we chose the physical path. i'm not lamenting that. I'm saying they're doing a PR mess with two different products.

Had there been only the "Anthology", in both Digital and super Limited physical form, that would have been okay. To each Is own, those who save money and, huh, carbon footprint I guess, and those who think about posterity, which is just a disc rot away. Both would be right in their judgment.

Here however, the sales of the digital "Flashback" will clearly cannibalize those of an (eventual? That's something i don't understand) Digital Anthology. Both sides get screwed in this publishing mess. Those who like fast, accessible downloads won't probably realize how much gaming content they're actually missing. And those who can patiently wait for their physical copy cannot do like you have done several times, and double-dip a convenient 0,99€ on the same package, because games and content are different, as It stands.

And if/when the Anthologies, both volume's will also get on PSN store, can you imagine the confusion?

A mess.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:17 am 


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True, I forgot that the releases' contents were different. That's kind of an odd choice, sure. I wonder if that decision was made by the ports' developers or someone higher up?
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:35 pm 


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It's odd they'd release a cut down version and hide the full release behind a specialist retailer, but it's not unique to Turrican. Space Invaders Invincible Collection has a whole bunch of games, but the mainstream release is a cut down package Space Invaders Forever which bizarrely just has the three most recent games on it.

I'm not sure who it serves. The Turrican one isn't as mad as the Space Invaders one, but it is a bit enthusiast gouging to put the full set behind a premium package and then shit out a cut down version with a wide release. Not like they take up much room on those carts. At least the Darius collection did a sensible split between the main arcade games and home console curiousities.

Strictly Limited usually have the option to just buy the game, which always ships earlier because of the timelines involved in lining up supplies of all the extra stuff in other editions. It's also a bit unfair to hammer any physical publisher in the midst of a pandemic, Strictly Limited do at least keep updated shipping estimates on their site. While I don't know if they state it, it seems the delay is as well to ensure critical bugfixes are made because usually the games have a digital and/or Japanese release first - the Turrican games have some stability issues on Switch that are being patched out, and their intention is to offer a physical package in a state where it doesn't need patching.

With the issues on the Capcom arcade whatnot, it does seem like even retro compilations are treated like AAA titles - get your money first, patch it later... when no-one would mind a delay of a couple of months to iron it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:12 am 


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There's not that much missing from Flashback in fairness - if it had been announced before the anthologies, I'd likely never have bothered with either of those. I'm not really arsed about score attack / boss rush modes, and thought ST2 was a pile of shit. I'd wager that anyone that didn't go for one of the 'collectors' editions probably would have done the same.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:19 am 


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The difference with SI is that it doesn't spread multiple versions of the same game around and market them as separate games. I would be glad to be mistaken, but it feels like the score attacks and director's cuts (especially the Mega Turrican one) are there to pad out the collection. The comment on Super Turrican NES being "non essential" because it reuses levels from Turrican 1 and 2 also rubs me the wrong way (especially since Super Turrican SNES also does that, though to a lesser extent).

I'm under the impression that the ST director's cut on the Super NT may have been updated. I didn't remember hearing sound effects on the menu before and they are now present. I haven't seen the game glitch out since the last updates either, though I may be mistaken.

I wonder if Super Turrican 2 is the "Critters" (New Adventures of Batman) of Factor 5's lineup. The developers seem very proud of it, but public opinion is mixed. I personally don't feel it's a bad game, but I do feel it's a terrible Turrican game that was definitely the wrong direction for the series.


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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:09 pm 


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BrianC wrote:
The comment on Super Turrican NES being "non essential" because it reuses levels from Turrican 1 and 2 also rubs me the wrong way (especially since Super Turrican SNES also does that, though to a lesser extent).


It's just pr talk to mask the obvious. These are a Factor 5 products / compilations. If they had been "Turrican" compilations, of course you would have seen the origins, the remarkable C64 versions, the Manfred Trenz input.

They just have little to do with those and don't see them as commercially viable. For several reasons, they are not entirely out of reason: the Turrican origin Is a a kind of "doujinshi", counter-culture one. C64 has bits of Transformers here and there, the Manowar intro graphics, the Nes has plenty of Aldynes...

It was Factor 5 that took this vulcanic mess of inspirations and produced perfectly marketable burgers.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:40 am 


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Marc wrote:
There's not that much missing from Flashback in fairness - if it had been announced before the anthologies, I'd likely never have bothered with either of those.


It frankly sounds like even the Flashback hasn't been a sound investment for you. Maybe It's just not your cup of tea. I mean, I, II, Mega and Super: that's the most barebone setup one can possibly Imagine, and also something that (barring a ten minutes of labor in properly setting up an UAE) really doesn't justify Its price tag.

Let's face It, collections live and die for the supplements, not certainly for the main dish which Is already available to everyone from the start. Who didn't have a good Magic Engine for spinning Dracula X Rondò of Blood? But on PSP you could play It with three different soundtracks, including playing It with SotN music.

With Turrican, It's the same. Huelsbeck spent a good portion of the last decade raising money on Kickstarter to rescore the whole saga wih modern instrumentation. What's the point of these collections, if not experimenting with such a thing, mixing and matching audios?

If the general attitude Is "Hey these weren't so cool after all" a thirty bucks digital download seem a steep price for a few minutes trip down to memory lane. Emulator would have sufficed.

The Anthology split in two volumes is ill conceived but the Flashback is downright pointless.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:38 pm 


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Turrican wrote:
Marc wrote:
There's not that much missing from Flashback in fairness - if it had been announced before the anthologies, I'd likely never have bothered with either of those.


It frankly sounds like even the Flashback hasn't been a sound investment for you. Maybe It's just not your cup of tea. I mean, I, II, Mega and Super: that's the most barebone setup one can possibly Imagine, and also something that (barring a ten minutes of labor in properly setting up an UAE) really doesn't justify Its price tag.


Bit puzzled by that TBH. I'm a bit bemused as to how 1, 2, Mega and Super 1 an be considered 'bare bones'? If I'm reading correctly, all I'm missing from the two Anthologies are a bunch of score attack and boss rush modes, neither of which are likely to make me play Turrican above a proper dedicated arcade run & gun. The new soundtrack will be nice to hear, but I'd have bought a digital download of that. My main wish over the years was simply for a proper re-release of the best versions of the main games, which is pretty much what Flashback is. What is there, in your opinion, that makes the Anthology collections such a better buy, given that ONE of them costs a fiver more than Flashback? I'm not seeing an extra £35.00 worth of content between the two volumes if I'm honest.

I'd like to see what they could do with a modern sequel, hence the reason for my support, and I'm sure I'll enjoy replaying 2. In addition to that I never played Mega properly, and I've recently enjoyed playing through Super again, so it's nice to have that not tied to my SNES mini. I've not written the entire series off just because the first tailed off a lot ore quickly than I remembered.

I just think it's incredibly dishonest how they went about the entire enterprise, split the mainline games between two volumes, suck up early pre-orders, then release a 'best of', that comes out way before the aforementioned comps.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:28 pm 


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Turrican wrote:

If the general attitude Is "Hey these weren't so cool after all" a thirty bucks digital download seem a steep price for a few minutes trip down to memory lane. Emulator would have sufficed.

The Anthology split in two volumes is ill conceived but the Flashback is downright pointless.


I am far from a Turrican expert so I acknowledge my opinion doesn't hold a lot of weight, but I actually found that the updates to the controls and the rewind button make Flashback worth it to me. I never played these growing up outside of a few minutes with Super Turrican on my friend's SNES cart so I really don't have any nostalgia for them. A couple weeks ago I tried recreating Flashback's control scheme from Turrican 1 in RetroArch to see if it could be pulled off and I could get close (still have to crouch for mines, no instant lightning, maybe one other thing I forgot).

If I had to be picky though, there are two things that I wish they would improve:

A) Each game is limited to only 6 save state slotes.
B) The input lag is by no means unplayable, but it is noticeable when you compare it to emulating the game yourself on PC (I have the PS4 version of Flashback).


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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:53 pm 


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[quote="BloodHawk"]the updates to the controls and the rewind button make Flashback worth it to me.[/quote]

I hope the controls are completely reversible to the original. It just would feel wrong not to crouch to plant mines.

And the rewind option, sure, It's a standard in most retro packages. The Megadrive Classics collection has fifty titles and they all have rewind and even fast forward, a godsend for RPG farming.

I think you answered Marc way better that I could: instead of paying thirty bucks for four roms (leaving out games for the sake of It!), you could Fire up your emulators and even get a better, lag-free experience.

But hey, to each his own. I've read people dissing the M2 Castlevania collection which came with eight or nine titles, each playable in two versions (jpn / US), with Kid Dracula's translation debut, and plenty of scans of vintage production material and developers interviews. Go figure!
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:28 pm 


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Turrican wrote:
I hope the controls are completely reversible to the original. It just would feel wrong not to crouch to plant mines.


It's been a couple weeks so I would have to double check, but I do remember seeing an option to revert jumping to the original method (pressing "up") instead of the new face button binding. However, I don't recall anything about enabling/disabling crouch to plant mines though. They moved that action to a separate face button so there is little to no chance of ever accidentally planting them, and you can still plant them while crouched in case that helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:55 am 


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BloodHawk wrote:
Controls have been simplified so you don't need to crouch in order to do the roll or drop mines. They added a button for instant lightning instead of waiting for it to start up while holding the button down, and they enabled an option to change jump to a separate button instead of pressing up. Oh and since the lightning attack is a separate button the regular fire button is auto-fire.


so you even morph into buzzsaw without crouching? Sounds dreadful. I mean... you have to crouch even in the console titles, why make such a fundamental change? I could understand mines (they were a T1 thing only after all), but the wheel? :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:36 pm 


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Turrican wrote:
BloodHawk wrote:
Controls have been simplified so you don't need to crouch in order to do the roll or drop mines. They added a button for instant lightning instead of waiting for it to start up while holding the button down, and they enabled an option to change jump to a separate button instead of pressing up. Oh and since the lightning attack is a separate button the regular fire button is auto-fire.


so you even morph into buzzsaw without crouching? Sounds dreadful. I mean... you have to crouch even in the console titles, why make such a fundamental change? I could understand mines (they were a T1 thing only after all), but the wheel? :shock:


I don't know about "dreadful", as it's now a completely separate button so I imagine it's easier to execute quickly and there is almost no chance of an accidental activation of it. I can see why they wanted to go that route, but at the same time I never played the original prior to this release so I don't have those controls ingrained in my muscle memory. For those who do I can definitely understand the concern of not having an option for the original controls though.


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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:48 am 


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While I understand most of your complaints Turri, I can't support your gripes over the controls. There are games where difficult controls are purposefully designed (see: alien soldier, metroid, fucking dark souls) and there are games where things are very clearly just improvised to work and benefit from an update. Turrican falls into the latter, hard, and having buttons for wheel, lightning and so on is a welcome change for anyone who actually cares about the gameplay.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:33 pm 


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Oh god yes, of any complaints I might personally have, I can't see how anyone would ever prefer the original controls.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:34 am 


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Not a chance guys. Remember when Super Castlevania IV had the nerve to map subweapons to... "R"?


I'm sure there's a special section of hell just for that particular sin committed. :twisted:
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 6:03 am 


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After lot of mulling about it, I bought the Turrican flashback for switch, because let's face it, the Manfred Trenz-originated Turrican games, I & II, are the only ones to get excited about (not to mention that his C64 incarnations are even fraction better games, though the production values obviously don't match Factor 5:s 16-bit sleek and polish).

I tried Turrican 2 and was positively surprised; mapping gyroscope, special weapons and jump into different buttons was a god send, playing Turrican has never been this convenient before. Emulation was also pretty good, frankly I would have a hard time to ever return to Amiga version again. I did not expect it but this time it was improvement on the original.

Rewinding is cheat, I know, but damn it felt sweet to be able to backtrack from that aggravating fall which would have cost me running through that damn map again. And, to be honest, I already made perfect 100% (What that means? It means that you get all the five dots to light up for every 100 diamonds you get, and big panel light up for getting five hundred diamonds) on the original amiga version years ago, so I don't feel too bad about cheating.

I can recommend this one to anyone who is interested about the original Turrican games, though I suggest getting the maps from the net and having them in front of you while playing in the handheld mode. Without them, you are doomed to wander in eternity :v


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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:38 am 


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Turrican wrote:
Let's face It, collections live and die for the supplements, not certainly for the main dish which Is already available to everyone from the start. Who didn't have a good Magic Engine for spinning Dracula X Rondò of Blood? But on PSP you could play It with three different soundtracks, including playing It with SotN music.


Does not apply to me. I nearly never play on emulators and I dont think Iam the only one. Flashback works for many players who just want to play expensive classics on modern consoles. Questionable is possibly, that this one got a physical release as well.

Quote:
After lot of mulling about it, I bought the Turrican flashback for switch, because let's face it, the Manfred Trenz-originated Turrican games, I & II, are the only ones to get excited about (not to mention that his C64 incarnations are even fraction better games, though the production values obviously don't match Factor 5:s 16-bit sleek and polish).


Another "lets face it" :D
Well I like the Trenz-Style Turricans far more as well but I havent played ST and MT before Flashback and was excited to check them out. 1cc'ed all of them and had fun with all four of them. Even though MT is nearly not a real Turrican and ST is an extremely "consolized" Version of the true Turrican formula. A little bit like Darius Twin (ok, not as bad).
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:54 am 


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Angry Hina wrote:
Another "lets face it" :D
Well I like the Trenz-Style Turricans far more as well but I havent played ST and MT before Flashback and was excited to check them out. 1cc'ed all of them and had fun with all four of them. Even though MT is nearly not a real Turrican and ST is an extremely "consolized" Version of the true Turrican formula. A little bit like Darius Twin (ok, not as bad).


Let's spin it on more positive light: having any other Turrican games on flashback is a nice bonus, but just having the two first amiga versions are good enough for me, I dont really need anything else :)


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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:10 pm 


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Right. Would have bought it just because of the Amiga ones.
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 9:25 pm 


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The Strictly Limited release has been delayed (the games have apparently needed some bugfixes which has probably pushed manufacturing back), but they're now hinting at a bonus to make up for it. Which I can only assume is going to be the C64 Turricans. Maybe we'll get really really lucky and it'll be Universal Soldier :D


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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 7:28 am 


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Location: Wigan, England.
Bugfixes.... Flashback already works perfectly, is this going to be a completely different interface?
Still, the C64 versions would be a lovely bonus, though there's only two games so I guess they'd allocate one to each collection?
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 10:05 am 


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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 4774
Location: Finland
C'mon NES and GB ports!
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 Post subject: Re: Turrican 30th
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 1:06 pm 



Joined: 01 Aug 2009
Posts: 308
Location: The Netherlands
Extra games? I think a sticker is more likely


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